Mini 1039 Lost: Season One (Over)

[HackerHuck]

/confirm

[HackerHuck]

VOTE: Faraserdayphim
So is it a hydra or not?

[HackerHuck]

VOTE: Faraserdayphim
So is it a hydra or not?

hmm, dunno, what do you think?

Vote: vezokpiraka

Anyway, let's cut the bullshit. We're in agreement. I'm declaring a policy lynch on vezokpiraka. If you haven't played with him before, well, if you've ever played with Empking, it's something similar except even more bizarre. He likes to jump wagons, is nigh-on unreadable, and is one of the most anti-town players in the game I have ever had the (dis?)honor of playing with. Let's lynch him right here, on Day 1, where he can do the least damage.

Good luck with that, scum.

[HackerHuck]

However, if the rest of you town is willing to lynch me based on that dubious claim, let me at least give my role out there before you bring me to the noose.

There's no reason not to give your full claim right away. Stalling = scum.

UNVOTE: Seraday
VOTE: Dekes

[HackerHuck]

What is this chainsaw defence that you guys keep bringing up?

[HackerHuck]

Oh I see.
It's annoying to know what happens in the other seasons but everything that happens there is not related.
I think the scums are : Ethan, Black Smoke , Polar Bear. LOL.

This isn't helpful. Save the general role/setup speculation for later in the game.

@HackerHuck
No, reasons, eh?
How about I didn't want to give away my role prematurely when I wasn't in imminent danger of being lynched (= L-1 and people threatening to hammer)?
Or how about people only wanted me to give out my name to test out vezo's claim?
And before you give me the crap I'm scum hinting at a PR but stalling with my full claim to come up with a proper fake claim. If this is indeed a vanillaless game, this tactic would make me not more valuable to town.

This is not a smear campaign or chainsaw defending. This is simply people being wary of an extremely sketchy claim early Day 1. No one said, I couldn't be scum and no one said vezo's claim has to be a lie. But blindly following such a claim instead of questioning it is imo rather done by scum than town.

We have a day-cop who is not counterclaimed and he has called you out as his target. Not only does he declare you to have a likely scum-name, you actually claim an entirely different name. I wasn't necessarily going to vote you if said your name really was Ethan, but since there's a discrepancy here, I'm quite certain that one of you is scum. Without a counterclaim and without knowing of a day-redirector or some other obscure role that would give him a bad result, I'm going to believe him over you. Your role

Also:
Looking at ISO, Hacker has 5 1 sentence posts.

Yup. I'm not going to waste space by speculating on the setup right now. We should try and find people who act scummy and argue about the setup once we have some more information.

BTW, we need full claims (including flavour) from both Dekes and Vezok.

I'm not in favour of this so-called test. There's way too much room for manipulation and we're going to lose the townie even if we nail the scum.

[HackerHuck]

Hey hacker what do ya think of vezok not claiming any flavour for his investigation when asked?

I'm not happy about either of them avoiding the flavour claim, but unless Dekes comes up with something brilliant I can't see a reason not to lynch him.

My last bit references the fact that whether we do the test or not, it has no real impact on his survival, because I don't think that both he and Dekes are scum.

I'm seriously befuddled by all this talk of a lyncher. It doesn't make any sense given what we've heard so far. I'm not very familiar with a lyncher, but I assumed that they're looking for a specific role, not a specific player. Considering Dekes is claiming a different role than what Vezok was calling for, I would find it incredibly lucky on Vezok's part to have found his role so easily. It would also imply that Dekes knows that someone was looking for him. Lastly, I don't see how it fits flavour-wise with Boone, Ethan, or Claire.

[HackerHuck]

UNVOTE: Dekes
Dekes- I wasn't expecting a counterclaim, but I'm always willing to trade townie for scum if scum is willing to fake a claim like that. I've never played a game with a lyncher before, so I wasn't thinking about it at first and I discounted it because I don't think it's that common of a role.
Those reveals really took me for a spin, so I need to go back through these last few pages again. I'm not happy with Vezok's play here, but maybe it will help us find some scum.

[HackerHuck]

How about putting together a case besides 'these guys didn't think Vezok was a lyncher'?

[HackerHuck]

If he's town, then why waste a vig on him? The extra town body prolongs the day, so I don't know why we'd be in a rush to lynch him if you believe he's really a lyncher.

@Ademisk, do you think Vezok just got lucky in that the flavour matches up - Ethan stalking Claire? I'd also like to know why you think accusing someone of being a vig would help the town.

[HackerHuck]

Unless his win-con ends the game and we choose to lynch Dekes, there's no harm to the town in letting him live. That means I'd rather a vig target someone who really could hurt the town like a mafia or SK.

The way I see it, he's not mafia, which means that he counts against their win condition. That gives the scum an incentive to kill him, so I'd rather let them do it.

[HackerHuck]

So do you think that Dekes is scum? If so, wouldn't it be smarter for a vig to kill dekes than Vezok?

[HackerHuck]

Vote farasera

I won't change my vote.
He is either scum or Jack.

What does this mean. If he's not scum or your lyncher target, why would you want to vote for him?

[HackerHuck]

Whatever you say dekes. I follow a claim of you being ethan which makes sense as a scum role what else was i supposed to do, ignore it? You may call me opportunistic but it was no way opportunistic. I am, believe it or not rather good at keeping track of thresholds and if someone were to come in and vote quickly I would have unvoted to let the day evolve so that you had time to claim or rebuttal. No doubt I do agree that occasionally the third or fourth vote on a player can be opportunistic. However scum-bloodcovenent would blindly jump on a wagon as the late voter with no reasoning. As you may ask what my reasoning is... well.... it's that there was a claim that your role was of an "other." And they are bad in season 1. Therefore i felt confident in you as a lynch. Note that it doesn't make sense for Scum Vezo to so early give off a fake claim though. Because i would assume he knows that if you flip town, he will be ultimately hung tomorrow. -One of the reasons why I followed him.

Anyways. I'll stall the wagon for now.

Unvote:
Vote: Ademisk

scum.

I remembered this being a little off when it happened. This is before you discussed the possibility of Vezok as a lyncher. It's not too odd that you jumped off of Dekes here, but it doesn't make why you didn't wagon Vezok.

Dram, why aren't you talking about the Bloodcovenant Wagon? Magna even asked you about it directly and you've still don't comment.

[HackerHuck]

The weekend hit me harder than I expected. I'll put together some more thoughts on Monday.

I'm going to give a pass to Vezok, Dekes, Dram, BC, and Chesskid today.

That leaves me to look at Magna, Seraday, AGar, Ademisk, Jason, and Jenni. I don't really get all of the Magna love, but he hasn't moved too far up my scum list yet. I'm still trying to read Seraday. I'm not too keen on the hydra thing, because it makes reads much harder. I'll focus on those last four, only because I'd be wasting my breath talking about the others.

[HackerHuck]

I'm starting with Ademisk mainly because he's first alphabetically. Interesting post here. He makes an attack on FeraSera for believing Vezok's claim and points out why it's not too believable, but rather than choose a side, he places an FoS on FeraSera.

Once the claims come out from both parties, he again takes no stance on the matter, choosing instead to leave it to the test. I find the test scummy, only because there are no real good outcomes from it and it will only end up getting more people to claim.

Town credit for this post. Scum really don't have much to gain from keeping the lyncher alive now. It could help scum near endgame if he really ends up a treestump, but I don't really see Ademisk looking that far ahead.

The quick 180 the following day seems really interesting. It appears to be a response to MoI's challenging message, but his target of Vezok is about the safest one you could pick. The last half of that post is also surprising.

And for MoI: My other suspicion is on BC. Frankly, I have more suspicion on him than on Vezok by his posts compared to Vezoks, but Vezoks actions seem more significant to me. Since you have most of the case written up in your posts, here are a few of my favorite quotes:
...some quotes...And MoI, just because Vezok comes off as VI does not mean we should give him a free pass on all he says and does. Sure we may have to judge him by a different set of standards, but that doesn't mean he gets a free ride to the endgame.

So BC is scummier, but you really want to get rid of Vezok. It sounds more like Ademisk is now in favor of the policy lynch on Vezok.

I already commented on his rolefishing, but it should be mentioned again. I'm not sure what to make of his stubbornness in thinking that Vezok probably isn't a lyncher, but it ranks up there with him thinking that Dram is likely scum for saying that we shouldn't lynch BloodCovenent.

Specifically to the question on MoI and Seraday, I should be able to get around to them before deadline, but I wanted to note that they're not on my priority list for today and why.



Jason actually wasn't on my list until I noticed that I hadn't accounted for everyone. Given his post count, he seems to be just flying under the radar, which isn't a good sign.
I don't like the seeming contradiction here. At first he acts like he doesn't know much about lynchers, but then seems to have enough experience with them to make a pretty absolute statement.

The lyncher theory has been brought up.. im not entirely sure how that works... does the lyncher automatically win the game if said target is lynched?

Wait, you would support a lyncher getting his win cause?... in my experience with lynchers and it is limited to my admission... A lyncher is never set out to lynch an anti-town role. That would mean willingly supporting a lynch of a town role??? thats not very pro town.

It is actually something scum might suggest to get rid of a town member? a lyncher is usually an anti town role. I don't like helping a lyncher win the game with a lynch of someone who could be town.

major FOS: Faraseradayaphim

Unless you can show me where a lyncher has set out to lynch an anti-town role in a game, this could well turn into a vote.

now for the reveal

....I beleive the one time I was lyncher my target was a protown role. I knew the persons name and role before hand as I recall.

Remembered what information he got and what type of player he was targeting, but he didn't remember how the win condition works?
after a few more posts, his mind clears a bit more...

I am not sure if it ends the game... from what I recall the game goes on minus the lyncher who wins.... as he has achieved his win condition, town and scum can still play on to try and achieve their win conditions.

Anyway, we should maybe move away from Vez and start to look for actual scum instead of chasing lynchers. I quite like jenniwren for scum right now, Like I said earlier his interactions so far have been almost like he is trying to add nothing, while looking like he is with the lost character talk. I guess you could also see that as slight rolefishing.

vote:jenniwren

Maybe some pressure will hep him give us content

a basic pot-kettle lurker vote. I did like the vote at the time, but the tail off of that post makes it seem like he's not really looking for scum. Voting for content usually doesn't work too well and it's worse if you telegraph it.

First real vote comes after ISO of me and Ademisk. He made the best choice of the two, but I'm not sure why he singled out just the two of us.

I'll comment briefly on two things before I sign off for the night. I wasn't happy that Vez hadn't fully claimed, but I was less happy that Dekes hadn't, especially since he dropped hints at it. In a likely scum vs town situation, holding back on claims is a sign of scumminess and Vezok had obviously claimed a lot more information than Dekes had. I also wasn't speculating about a vig. I was basically educating a possible vig on why it's not a good idea to target the lyncher. There was enough noise about it being a good idea and I wanted to quash that.

I didn't get as far as I had hoped tonight, so I'll have to finish up tomorrow, so just consider this part one.

[HackerHuck]

Looking at TheLonging, I don't really see anything that sticks out. Agar has a little more real content, but it's mostly directed at me.

Alright.

Let's look at HackerHuck, everyone.

After an uneventful start, he decides this game would be a great game for blindly following a VI player with a conflicting claim. He follows up expressing distaste for both players not full-claiming, but continues to press on Dekes. He later states he'd be willing to go 1:1 on town for scum, although vezok has claimed lyncher (3rd party). Why the continuing justification for his past actions? Since then he has continuously discussed vezok and the lyncher, rather than scumhunting. His most recent post states his D1 scumhunting will be PoE. PoE on D1 doesn't work.

VOTE: HackerHuck

Most of his case is shrouded in misrep. I certainly wasn't the only person that followed the VI. Obviously your predecessor did, but SeraDay did the same thing after specifically calling for a policy lynch on Vezok.
Part two of his case doesn't make much sense either. I express distaste for both players that didn't claim, yet I left my vote on Dekes and pressed for his full claim. If I'm not happy about both players for not claiming, why would I pull my vote?
Read the post where I said I'd go 1:1 for scum. I said that I was pushing for Dekes because I would be happy exchanging 1:1 for scum. I pulled my vote from Dekes once Vezok confirmed he was a lyncher.
Continuously discussed vezok? Well, considering the two posts you linked to were made within 40 minutes of each other, I'm not sure how that shows I'm tunneling on Vezok and not scumhunting. Maybe I should have just done what you did and make up some weak reason to jump on the leading wagon.
I'm not making my lynch decision based on PoE. I've simply put a number of people in my do not lynch today bucket due to their claims. Maybe I should have done what you did and only look at the leading wagon. I'd like you to show me where you or TheLonging did any actual scumhunting. I'm not sure here if you're lazy or scum.


Jenniwren - I liked his vote on you because it did appear that you were lurking in plain sight. There were a lot of filler posts without much referencing what was going on in the game. There was also a lot of role/theme speculation, which isn't very helpful to the town. Although not the case there, I can also like someone's vote without agreeing with it.
Post 260 is the one made in response to MoI calling her out on not really playing the game. It starts off pretty slowly, but I like the analysis put into BloodCovenent and the vote. My only concern is why she didn't really look at anyone else. I know that Magna only asked about those three, but there are other people in the game.
She then does look at someone else and I get a better feel from her with her review of Ademisk and the follow up she makes. It is a little surprising though that she was so quick to pull the trigger and vote ademisk when her first vote of the game was just made the post before. She's by far the least scummy of the group I reviewed.

Speaking of

HH

...as of last Thursday, I had a null/"maybe scum" read on him as BC and Adem were at the top of my list. However, AGar and MoI have made good points about him, and there isn't much I can add to the discussion except that I think his last post made it seem like he didn't have anyone he could actually make a case against at this point, and that though he "doesn't get" the MoI love and isn't "too keen" on the hydra, he isn't willing to make a case on them. If you really think someone is scummy, why wouldn't you make a case on them? If you're town, that's your job. You don't just get to focus on the ones that might be an easier lynch.

You're confusing two things here. By not getting the MoI love, I mean that I don't see why so many people are putting him in their town. His claim to fame is guessing right on the lyncher and his main thrust at scumhunting requires assuming that Dekes is town. SeraDay is more of a gut feeling, which is why I don't have a case to make on him.

I'd not be opposed to an Ademisk lynch right now, but I think that the better odds are on Jason.
VOTE: JasonT1981

[HackerHuck]

By not getting the MoI love, I mean that I don't see why so many people are putting him in their town. His claim to fame is guessing right on the lyncher and his main thrust at scumhunting requires assuming that Dekes is town.

So you choose to belittle the fact that I didn’t jump onboard and increadibly scummy claim and wagon Dekes? Interesting.

Where did I even mention this, or is that what you mean by belittling it? I also don't see how that makes you more townish, which is the whole point I was trying to make.

And what is your take on Dekes possibly being scum? Do you think he and Vezo devised a diabolical plan to stage a gambit that effectively sacrifices Vezo to clear Dekes? Do you think that Reck could have Claire as scum?

It's possible that Claire is scum, but it's unlikely enough that I pulled him off my list of people to review for today. That said, with the recent posts by Ademisk and Jenniwren, I'm starting to think that the theme that ties together the scum is not going to be very easy to guess. I'm not arguing that these things are scummy, but it takes some big assumptions to imply that they make you likely town.

Why not show consistency? You voted one player for action A while following the other blindly, but expressing discontent that he also committed the same problem. It's inconsistent.

How so? I called out my displeasure for Vezok also not claiming when asked. That seems like it's being very consistent to me.

By saying you would be happy for exchanging 1:1 for scum, you almost immediately recognize that you do not feel Dekes is town and that you feel Vezok is scum. Why not just cut to the scum?

How does this even make sense?

Before

vezok admitted to being a lyncher, we had two players, one of whom had to be lying. That to me meant that we'd get one scum out of the deal. Maybe you should go back and read my posts again.

I'm not making my lynch decision based on PoE. I've simply put a number of people in my do not lynch today bucket due to their claims. Maybe I should have done what you did and only look at the leading wagon. I'd like you to show me where you or TheLonging did any actual scumhunting. I'm not sure here if you're lazy or scum.

Or I replaced in and a wagon had already formed on a scummy player? Sorry that I wasn't in the game from the start, bud.

---

This post is lols. I'm scummy for replacing in and not agreeing with the way my predecessor acted? And I'm also scummy for poking at things that set off signals, ok. So basically, just blindly sheep with the crowd, but don't look like I'm scumhunting. Got it.

When half of your case is based on doing the exact same thing you did, it pretty much weakens your point, especially when the other point was that I was arguing against a vig on vezok. You pretty much ignored everyone but me. When I replace in, I actually look at all of the players, not just the big wagon. I also see that you weren't able to point any scumhunting you did.

[HackerHuck]

UNVOTE: Jason

So, am I at L-1?

This is great. With so little time before deadline, I'll go ahead and claim.

I'm Hurley and a flavour cop per my PM. However, my ability as described in my PM is more of a role-cop who also confirms whether someone was on flight 815. Because of that, I'm not going after anyone who has claimed a name that was on the manifest.

I'm not sure why Dram thinks BC is a bad lynch today, but I'm guessing his role doesn't actually confirm that BC is town. VOTE: BloodCovenent

And before anyone gets all bent out of shape about me following Vezok, this is why I made the point about no counterclaim and why I wasn't expecting one.

[HackerHuck]

brilliant - next time you guys lynch a townie, try to make it one where you can learn something from their flip.

Chess, don't do stupid things like that. If I could see I had six votes, I could certainly tell that you were one of them. It seems that you needlessly got me lynched.

[HackerHuck]

Fake hammers are not stupid.

Yes they are. What did you learn from it? That Vezok isn't paying attention? I don't see how you think that can be worth losing a flavour-cop.

[HackerHuck]

Also, if Vezok is not dead after tonight, I am going to be very upset

Unless you really doubt he's a lyncher, it would be better to vig Dekes than Vezok.

[HackerHuck]

Why would it be better to vig a town?

Are you certain that Claire is town? A flip on Claire, would help with flavour info and to vezok's point, keep his non-mafia vote in the game while removing any concern about actually lynching Claire if the time comes.

I don't really think it's a good idea for the vig to go after either one of them; I just see Dekes as the better option of the two. I also won't vig people just because I don't think they're playing well. I go after who I think to be mafia or an SK or whose flip will give information.

[HackerHuck]

Hacker – I saw your comments in the Dead QT regarding me as suspected scum based on pushing your case. I understand the emotional impact of being attacked but knowing you were an actual Cop I can’t understand why you considered Vezok’s claim credible. You know you are Town and the likelihood of another Town aligned cop to be unlikely. Yet you were willing to follow along before flips showed that Dekes could be scum.

If you think about it from my perspective, Dekes had already name claimed so I really had nothing to gain by calling out Vezok on his unlikely claim. I didn't believe that vezok as scum would make such a risky move and Deke's lack of fullclaim made me very uneasy about him. I'm really curious though why you chose me out of those three to tunnel on.