Mini 1034 - Castlevania Mafia (Game Over)

[tanstalas]

you asked me if you were my only suspect, then came back and said "are you concerned that your only suspect will get his name cleared"

And what about my question about Katsuki's "overly defensive" post made entirely with the caps lock key on?

[zwetschenwasser]

huh?

[tanstalas]

What you've produced are fairly weak cases. They are good for early D1, but very...um...

assumptive

that we know you're town. The reason I haven't really jumped in and started catching scum is they haven't played their full intent yet. There eventually ends up a post that reeks of scum intent and that's when I jump in. Course, I still am fine giving town reads as I get them.

Exactly. And that is why if I get lynched and when I flip town you will be able to look back on them tunneling me. Hey - if my mislynch causes two scum or more to be caught I'm all for it. I'll gladly be the martyr.

[tanstalas]

huh?

Way to pay attention to the thread.

Fail

[UncertainKitten]

Trouble is mislynches don't often work like that, tans. As I said, you have probably one scum on your wagon right now, if that. Further, if the town is so dumb as you say, they won't be able to engage in the wagon analysis that will catch that one scum. And I'm just as fallible as anyone else. It's too subjective. I would heavily advise against 'martyr' strategies.

[tanstalas]

Trouble is mislynches don't often work like that, tans. As I said, you have probably one scum on your wagon right now, if that. Further, if the town is so dumb as you say, they won't be able to engage in the wagon analysis that will catch that one scum. And I'm just as fallible as anyone else. It's too subjective. I would heavily advise against 'martyr' strategies.

Well, what is your suggestion then UK? Everything I say is countered with "That's scummy" I defend myself and I am "overly defensive" - thats scummy. I do analysis's on other players - I'm "flailing" and that's scummy. I point out other people are doing more "overly defensive" posts and ask their opinion on it, and they ignore it, or reply "huh?"

If the people on my BW are town, they sure don't act like they want to find any scum. Instead they just tunnel on me and keep repeating "he OMGUS voted" over and over like a mantra. Which is ironic because I didn't even do it, they are so focused on me they come up with other bullshit excuses to cover for their screwup in the first place.

[UncertainKitten]

Basically it's people being frustratingly idiotic. You just have to defend yourself the best you can, make cases the best you can, and overall just brush them off when it's gotten into a circuitous argument of stupidity. I've been in your position far too many times earlier in my mafia career. It's annoying to deal with.

[zwetschenwasser]

my dear tans, OMGUS IS NOT NECESSARILY VOTING, AND CALLING PEOPLE OUT ON CALLING OMGUS IS NOT ALWAYS THE CORRECT DEFENSE

[Katsuki]

VOTING IS TOWN'S STRONGEST WEAPON. IT ALSO APPLIES PRESSURE AND ALLOWS TOWN TO IDENTIFY WHETHER A PLAYER IS TOWN OR SCUM. THIS, PLUS DISCUSSION, IS ALL WE HAVE D1.

YOUR REACTION TO PRESSURE DOES NOT SCREAM TOWN AT ALL. IN FACT, IT'S QUITE THE OPPOSITE.

ALSO IF CAPS = OVERDEFENSIVE THEN YOU NEED TO FIND A BETTER EXCUSE TO CALL ME SCUM, AS WELL AS NOT POSTING ON SITE FOR 1 ENTIRE DAY.

[Kdub]

Vote Count

LynchMePls (0)

-

drmyshottyizsik (0)

-

jenniwren (0)

-

UncertainKitten (1)

- McGriddle

MehPlusRawr (0)

-

Katsuki (0)

-

Dekes (0)

-

Coach Travis (1)

- jenniwren

zwetschenwasser (4)

- UncertainKitten, Coach Travis, VasudeVa, tanstalas

McGriddle (0)

-

VasudeVa (0)

-

tanstalas (4)

- zwetschenwasser, LynchMePls, Dekes, Katsuki

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (2)

- drmyshottyizsik, MehPlusRawr

12 votes available, 7 votes needed to lynch.

Deadline is September 16, ~ 9 am PDT.

[tanstalas]

VOTING IS TOWN'S STRONGEST WEAPON. IT ALSO APPLIES PRESSURE AND ALLOWS TOWN TO IDENTIFY WHETHER A PLAYER IS TOWN OR SCUM. THIS, PLUS DISCUSSION, IS ALL WE HAVE D1.

YOUR REACTION TO PRESSURE DOES NOT SCREAM TOWN AT ALL. IN FACT, IT'S QUITE THE OPPOSITE.

ALSO IF CAPS = OVERDEFENSIVE THEN YOU NEED TO FIND A BETTER EXCUSE TO CALL ME SCUM, AS WELL AS NOT POSTING ON SITE FOR 1 ENTIRE DAY.

Also claimed you "think" you posted your opinion of LMP on Friday, then you go to say that you were basically gone all day Friday..

And as well, since you didn't give an opinion of ANYONE'S ISO before Saturday in this entire game how could you even "think" you gave an LMP ISO on Friday?

Sucks being caught in a lie eh?

[tanstalas]

EBWOP: Sorry, don't mean in a lie per se, just something about your posts isn't sitting right with me.

I don't know why you would even "think" you made an ISO on LMP on Friday, for 2 reasons
1)You never did an ISO read on anyone this entire game until Saturday
2)You later said you were basically away all day Friday, so why you would think you made a post on Friday confuses me as well.

I also find it funny you said you were in a car for 18 hours, and as soon as you got home you jumped online to catchup on the thread and make a post, then you went to sleep and you said when you woke up (roughly 6 hours later(by this thread) - if I am allowed to reference other threads I could say that it was actually less than 4 hours but I don't know if I can say that - however you said feel free to check your other threads so..) you jumped back on and posted again.

So after an 18 hour car trip first thing you do is hop on here, read the thread make a post, then go to sleep for less than 4 hours and as soon as you get up you re-read the thread and do another post. I must say, you are really into your mafiascum

[Katsuki]

Also LMP's responses so far have been a bunch of denial and deflection. Seriously, look at his ISO and tell me that doesn't look like scum.

I LOOKED AT HIS ISO. IT DIDN'T LOOK SCUM TO ME. THATS WHAT I SAID IN MY COMMENTS TOO.

If I said I ISO'd him, then I made a mistake, and meant to say that I looked at his iso.

Also claimed you "think" you posted your opinion of LMP on Friday, then you go to say that you were basically gone all day Friday..

And as well, since you didn't give an opinion of ANYONE'S ISO before Saturday in this entire game how could you even "think" you gave an LMP ISO on Friday?

Sucks being caught in a lie eh?

Not really, I addressed this straight after my post that I made a mistake. Because you know, I definately remember when I make EVERY SINGLE POST. = =

I also find it funny you said you were in a car for 18 hours, and as soon as you got home you jumped online to catchup on the thread and make a post, then you went to sleep and you said when you woke up (roughly 6 hours later(by this thread) - if I am allowed to reference other threads I could say that it was actually less than 4 hours but I don't know if I can say that - however you said feel free to check your other threads so..) you jumped back on and posted again.

So after an 18 hour car trip first thing you do is hop on here, read the thread make a post, then go to sleep for less than 4 hours and as soon as you get up you re-read the thread and do another post. I must say, you are really into your mafiascum

This argument is getting quite ridiculous, its not even scumhunting anymore. YES, I GOT HOME, CHECKED MAFIA, WENT TO BED, THEN POSTED WHEN I GOT UP... Ok, so I slept 4hrs instead of the 6 I thought I did. Your point? Only argument I can see made against me is that I am not the most accurate with my timing of events. Go look at the first page, perfect example of my sense of time.

And mafia is kind of an addiction, that can not be helped.
_______________________

I FEEL LIKE YOU'RE NOT SCUMHUNTING AND RUNNING MORE OF A POLITICAL SMEAR CAMPAIGN.

NOW PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW ONE DAY'S ABSENCE IS EVEN A TELL. YOUR ARGUMENT AGAINST ME SEEMS QUITE CENTERED ON THE TIMING OF MY POSTS (YOU DID ACTUALLY ACCUSE ME OF PURPOSEFULLY WAITING FRIDAY OUT FOR EVERYONE ELSE TO POST BEFORE POSTING, AND YOU WILL DEFEND YOUR ACCUSATIONS). AS MUCH AS I WOULD LIKE I CAN NOT GLUE MYSELF TO MAFIASCUM.NET 24/7.

[tanstalas]

I FEEL LIKE YOU'RE NOT SCUMHUNTING AND RUNNING MORE OF A POLITICAL SMEAR CAMPAIGN.

I kept the above as I find it quite ironic, as the only "scumhunting" you have done is the following:

His interaction with zwet bothers me, and he doesn't even vote zwet, but "HOS'es" him. This seems ridiculous to me, and feels like scum afraid to place vote and be accused of votehopping like zwet was. His essentially OMGUS vote on LMP makes me feel good about this vote.

I have explained the reason why I HoS'd instead of voting, so why is your vote still on me? Please feel free to elaborate.

And as far as my OMGUS vote on LMP - I would not call that an OMGUS vote. OMGUS votes are a vote where the primary reason for placing the vote is because they placed a vote on you. I gave three reasons for placing my vote on LMP. Which is 1 to 2 more reasons than any of the people on my BW gave when voting me.

So again, I have shot your theory down in flames, you going to get off your ass anytime soon and do some scumhunting? I assume not unless your scum-buddies latch onto someone else

[Dekes]

Sorry, wall o' text.

Vote Count

tanstalas (4)

- zwetschenwasser, LynchMePls, Dekes, Katsuki

My top 3 picks (in order)
1)LMP
2)Katsuki
3)Dekes

Unvote
Vote: Zwet

Updated.
Do you really believe there are 3 (or even 4) scum on your wagon? You've been nothing but accusing every single person on your wagon and that is flailing. Sure, the Newbie we played together, Beanman was throwing suspicion towards people who were questioning him all the time and he was town, so yeah, you could be bad town. But you're acting like the people are solely on your wagon because you HOS'd Zwet instead of voting him. That is simply not true. Your wagon is still intact because of how you handled the pressure. And you did a lot of suspicious things:

If I get to L-2 or L-1 I will nameclaim which should clear me, however I am hesitant to do that because if you know who I am you will probably be able to figure out my ability which will make me less useful to the town.

Scummy, scummy, scummy. If it will be so obvious what your role is, why not just claim at L-1? Because you haven't made up a good fake role claim yet, am I right?
And you say you will claim at L-2/L-1, yet you nameclaim at L-3 when no one else threatened to vote you. Why so overeager with your claim? This may very well be the first mod-provided fakeclaim I see.
Then you go on and try to clear you name by saying it's a main character. Like UK said, there are many Castlevania (well over 20 with almost as many main characters). I'm betting everyone has gotten a main character.

If you can figure out my ability based on my name do not speculate on it in thread, because if you can figure it out - you know why I do not want scum to know what it is.

Scummy, scummy, scummy. You don't want us to speculate about your role, yet you give away it's an important role practically making you the NK choice number one. Why not just fullclaim at all? (inb4 omg, Dekes is rolefishing) I bet, it's because - like I said - you don't have a proper fake role claim yet. You want us to say "Mh, Rinoa is known for X, maybe tanstalas is a [insert PR here]!" so you can say "Yeah, you got me. See, that's why I didn't want scum to know my role!". Pure speculation on my part but it doesn't seem so far off.

About your so-called solid cases. Here's what you did to accuse the people on your wagon:
- You make up scumtells that are none (being lazy, skimming and tunneling are done by both town and scum) and pass it off as a solid case
- You falsely use terms (parroting in the context of mafia is used for people who make statements that have been brought up by others and trying to pass it off as their own. If I say "Like player X said..." and then go on to state it this is not parroting. This is simply acknowledging a point someone else brought up) and pass it off as a solid case
- You attack people for non-game related things like sleeping habits and writing style and pass it off as a solid case
- You even try to get the mod involved because katsuki told the mod shotty announced V/LA in another thread. So what? Stay to game related things.

@Everyone on my BW

-

When

I get lynched and

if

I flip town who is going to be your next suspect and why?

Fix'd. Sorry, couldn't resist.
Why do you think nobody unvoted after your "claim"? Because four people are tunneling you hard? Or because there are three or four scum on your wagon? No, because nobody's believing you on either your claim or your cases. I know I am and my vote stays.

@UK
Don't just sit back and defend/coach tanstalas. The game is ten pages old and a lot happened, there must be people you are suspicious of.

@MPR, McGriddle
Please get involved. Who are you most of suspicious of at the moment and what do you think of the wagon on tanstalas.

[UncertainKitten]

@Dekes: Nope, no one's done anything of interest besides being stupid. I'm not going to force a case out when there is none. If this keeps up I'll do a reread though to look a bit closer.

That said, interested in his defense to your case, it could be enlightening ^-^.

[VasudeVa]

I don't understand why everyone thinks Tansalas is scum. It makes perfect sense to flail when being wagoned as Town. People assume that flailing = scum when in fact, flailing is a natural reaction to a wagon and thus null. In fact, I'm a lot more wary of people who don't flail when they have wagons. Like zwet here.

zwet is a sweet lynch.

[LimMePls]

214: THANK YOU!

@VesudeVa: I disagree that flailing makes perfect sense when being wagoned as Town. Also, what exactly is your reason for the zwet vote besides his fake claim?

[zwetschenwasser]

I don't understand why everyone thinks Tansalas is scum. It makes perfect sense to flail when being wagoned as Town. People assume that flailing = scum when in fact, flailing is a natural reaction to a wagon and thus null. In fact, I'm a lot more wary of people who don't flail when they have wagons. Like zwet here.

zwet is a sweet lynch.

there are so many things wrong with this post that I'm gagging right now.

[Coach Travis]

Reading through everything since my last post, I feel I should update my thoughts on Tanstalas:The thing is, I myself have been caught flailing around from both sides, so it's not really a scum or town tell, more just a null thing people do when frustrated that the game is not going their way. So I can't just easily decide one way or another on him. However, right now my gut on him is that he is town, because reading through his frustrations seem genuine to me, and even though his play has been very sloppy, I know by experience when I was flailing as town I was still at least making efforts at catching scum, like he is, while as scum I was like 95% defensive the entire time, only attacking when it was obvious I could cause a mislynch. So going by that, I'm not ready to hop on this wagon, and am willing to give him a chance right now.

I also agree with UK that simply voting a flailing player isn't scummy, and right now I have no problems with Kat and LMP. I do still find zwet scummy, however, so for now I'm still fine leaving vote on him. I feel out of the major wagons right now, he's scummier, while Tans is just sloppy.

[zwetschenwasser]

there's a big difference between flailing and defending. town are more likely to do the latter because they have nothing to hide, whereas flailing implies lack of reasoned argument.

[LimMePls]

However, right now my gut on him is that he is town, because reading through his frustrations seem genuine to me,

Is this completely by gut, or is there some reason you can point to in this particular instance that is town-flailing as opposed to scum-flailing?

[zwetschenwasser]

^this as well

[tanstalas]

Do you really believe there are 3 (or even 4) scum on your wagon?

I refuse to answer this because I have already answered it in a previous post. If you refuse to read my posts I am not going to repeat myself for your benefit.

You've been nothing but accusing every single person on your wagon and that is flailing. Sure, the Newbie we played together, Beanman was throwing suspicion towards people who were questioning him all the time and he was town, so yeah, you could be bad town. But you're acting like the people are solely on your wagon because you HOS'd Zwet instead of voting him.

I find it funny you call it flailing, yet the game we played together when you were on the bubble I could say you were flailing as well, and you were town. So when you do it it is towny, when I do it it is scummy eh?

Here is one of your posts where you are "flailing" - I prefer to call it scum hunting, but hey you are the one that wants to rename the term:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2422826

That is simply not true. Your wagon is still intact because of how you handled the pressure. And you did a lot of suspicious things:

If I get to L-2 or L-1 I will nameclaim which should clear me, however I am hesitant to do that because if you know who I am you will probably be able to figure out my ability which will make me less useful to the town.

Scummy, scummy, scummy. If it will be so obvious what your role is, why not just claim at L-1? Because you haven't made up a good fake role claim yet, am I right?
And you say you will claim at L-2/L-1, yet you nameclaim at L-3 when no one else threatened to vote you. Why so overeager with your claim? This may very well be the first mod-provided fakeclaim I see.

If I have to ability claim - I have no problem with it, if my BW gets bigger I will, in fact I still have an ace up my sleeve that should pretty much guarantee me being obv-town, however there are some "issues" with it - however I am very valuable to the town, and I will not myself be lynched. Trust me, I will not by lynched today.

Then you go on and try to clear you name by saying it's a main character. Like UK said, there are many Castlevania (well over 20 with almost as many main characters). I'm betting everyone has gotten a main character.

Again, I said PROTAGONIST - I really wish you would pay more attention - I really hate having to repeat myself. Do you have a main protagonist as your character?

Scummy, scummy, scummy. You don't want us to speculate about your role, yet you give away it's an important role practically making you the NK choice number one. Why not just fullclaim at all? (inb4 omg, Dekes is rolefishing) I bet, it's because - like I said - you don't have a proper fake role claim yet. You want us to say "Mh, Rinoa is known for X, maybe tanstalas is a [insert PR here]!" so you can say "Yeah, you got me. See, that's why I didn't want scum to know my role!". Pure speculation on my part but it doesn't seem so far off.

I wish I was NK choice #1 And if I have to reveal my ability you will see why

About your so-called solid cases. Here's what you did to accuse the people on your wagon:
- You make up scumtells that are none (being lazy, skimming and tunneling are done by both town and scum) and pass it off as a solid case

I agree - maybe not any of these things individually would me scumtells - however they are tells, and when I get a few on one person it starts to get hard to ignore.

- You falsely use terms (parroting in the context of mafia is used for people who make statements that have been brought up by others and trying to pass it off as their own. If I say "Like player X said..." and then go on to state it this is not parroting. This is simply acknowledging a point someone else brought up) and pass it off as a solid case

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2419606

And I quote from you -

And dammit, tanstalas, for your #356. There are several things I was going to add into my post as well. Now it will be me parroting and buddying and whatnot all over again.

So in that last game we played together - you referred to it as parroting, now it's not? Hello? Contradictory train pulling into the station!

- You attack people for non-game related things like sleeping habits and writing style and pass it off as a solid case

I admit that was a weak case, however his whole 18 hour trip, first thing I did was log onto pc and read the thread, etc etc thing sounded funny, after an 18 hour trip first thing I would do is go to bed. I admit is a weak tell, but the fact is he did lie about his timeline - ok he said he was just "mistaken" whatever - I'll accept that. Him saying he thought he posted on Friday and then said that he was essentially v/la on Friday kinda struck me as contradictory.

- You even try to get the mod involved because katsuki told the mod shotty announced V/LA in another thread. So what? Stay to game related things.

I was mearly questioning if that was an allowed post, as I would say that goes against rule 4A - I admit, it is NOT related to the game, so why did you bring it up in your argument against me? Are you afraid the mod will agree with me and modkill your scum-buddy?

@Everyone on my BW

-

When

I get lynched and

if

I flip town who is going to be your next suspect and why?

Fix'd. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Well, I see you saw the question, and I am kind of shocked that you didn't even answer it. In the other game we played you had a lot of "If this person flips X then I will assume that Y is scum" You were town that game, and you were not even asked to speculate on what you would think if someone flipped whatever you decided to start doing it because Beanman did. This game I asked you POINT BLANK when I flip town who would be your next suspect and you did not even answer the question. You cannot say you did not see the question, as you quoted me, and then also changed the contents of the quote.. how scummy looking is that?

Here are the posts where you hypothesis on people "flipping" and what that could tell you:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p2403470
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p2405821
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p2406810
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2419606 (This would also be considered a "flailing" post by your new definition as well)
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p2419921 (as well you admit that you were "flailing" in this post)
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2422826

No, because nobody's believing you on either your claim or your cases.

I know I am

and my vote stays.

You know you are? So you know I am telling the truth? Now I admit this is most likely not a slip, more so the fact that you forgot to put the word "not" after "I know I am" but still, I thought it was interesting that you agree'd with me and I didn't even have to manipulate your quote box like you did mine

@UK
Don't just sit back and defend/coach tanstalas. The game is ten pages old and a lot happened, there must be people you are suspicious of.

UK is the most active person in this game...

@MPR, McGriddle
Please get involved. Who are you most of suspicious of at the moment and what do you think of the wagon on tanstalas.

This I do agree on, however you only mentioned my wagon, why not ask their opinion on Zwet's as well?

Another thing I find interesting. So far this entire game you have had 6 posts. Which at this point in the game consists of 2.7% of total posts. Going back to our first game at the time you got lynched you were at 9.7% of total posts. Again you were town that game, I find you doing a lot of stuff differently this game than in the game where you were town.

To recap, you calling stuff I am doing scummy is ironic because last game when you were town you were doing the same thing.

[tanstalas]

there's a big difference between flailing and defending. town are more likely to do the latter because they have nothing to hide, whereas flailing implies lack of reasoned argument.

I disagree, but to each his own. I think scum are more likely to defend whereas town are more likely to look for other suspects.

Case in point last game I played with Dekes, he said Beanman was doing it - and he was town, as well as you can see from my last post Dekes was doing it and he was town as well.