Ladies Night -- Game Over

[DrippingGoofball]

Dont hammer me until i've posted properly. I will be pissed.

Mmm. Haylen might be town.

Gotta get myself more of that Ojanen luv.

VOTE: Apolyptyikca

Same goes with here... although I guess it doesn't matter because that's where you were.

[Apokalyptika]

I used those specific Hoopla games for analysis because the other, more recent ones were less similar to this game (had SKs, different mechanics, more unusual PRs, etc.) and I felt that I would get a clearer read with some more similar games. As for why I didn't say anything about Paws, there wasn't really much to say. She wasn't giving anybody anything to comment on except frustration at her lack of participation, and there wasn't anything I could offer there that someone else hadn't already said.

With regards to my earlier posts that people are taking such an interest in now, I don't see that voting on the basis of an oddity was as sinful as it's being made out to be. This was still relatively early in day 1, and there were no blinking neon signs pointing out the scum. I think it's better to throw anything that strikes me oddly out there so that it's in the public eye; I may be totally off-base and wrong and making a mountain out of a molehill, or I may have sliced through scum's cunning facade.

DGB, how on earth did that solitary post cause you to do such a drastic flip on Haylen? That makes no sense from where I'm standing.

[Hoopla]

I used those specific Hoopla games for analysis because the other, more recent ones were less similar to this game (had SKs, different mechanics, more unusual PRs, etc.) and I felt that I would get a clearer read with some more similar games.

The one town game you looked at was a 25 player Large Normal with an SK where I died on N1. The majority of games I play are Mini's as well, so it's not like you had to sift through a bunch of theme games and decide which were similar in set-up.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, how on earth did that solitary post cause you to do such a drastic flip on Haylen? That makes no sense from where I'm standing.

I'm not completely sold on Haylen-town, but at the same time, she seems resigned to her lynch and wants to make it right before going. That strikes me as a pro-town sentiment. Given that I love all three leading wagons, I don't mind switching.

[DrippingGoofball]

On the other hand, it took Apokalyptika a long time to post today if I'm not mistaken.

[Sotty7]

UK: I am willing to concede that I could have read the last two points wrong, but I still don't like how you were against the wagon, distancing yourself from it only to jump on it and then not really do much of anything. Of the votes on the Paws wagon, yours is the worst in my eyes, simply because you made a big deal about “giving in” so it not really being your fault.

Ojanen my vote wasn't on Paws all day. My initial vote on Hoop was actually serious for the time of day I put it there. After that Paws was scummy to me, I'm not about to move my vote all over the place when I have a target in mind. I don't understand how that is scummy anyway. My last post was mostly breaking down the Paws wagon combined with the top wagons for the day, to get my thoughts on record. I don't see it unreasonable to have several working suspects as I question them and let my suspicions develop. I did the same yesterday and I do the same in almost every game. Apok I keep flipping on, her intents ring town, but that meta thing is a huge point against her in my eyes. She needs to address it. That aside I currently find two people very scummy that I want to lynch today (Snow, chauchau) then three others that I'm trying to figure out (Haylen/DGB/UK)

Apok do you think Hoop plays differently depending on type of game? I'm not sure the need to look at "similar games" when the read you made was about Hoops style of play if I remember right. About how she draws attention to herself. Why not just look at a base of her most recent games?

[Sotty7]

Hoopla: After skimming through a couple games you played, I'm finding you somewhat more suspicious. In Large Normal 105, you were town. In Mini 909 and Mini 865, you were scum. In each of the latter two, you said some things that drew definite attention to you (in the first, fakeclaiming miller; in the second, suggesting random D1 lynch.) In the game where you were town, I didn't see any such dramatic statements. To me, this indicates that you aren't afraid of drawing attention to yourself as scum, such as you did at the beginning of this day.

See this, I'm not sure why this meta read needed you to look at similar games unless you are of the belief people play completely differently based on game set up.

[UncertainKitten]

Yeah, when you have actual evidence wake me up. Cause I have no idea what thread you are reading with this silly "making a big deal of it" thing.

So, anyway, does anyone who's NOT a fucktard have anything interesting to say? Because quite honestly I'm getting sick of the stupid and it's really demoralizing me in this game. I mean, seriously, I've never seen such BAD logic before. Or maybe I just haven't recognized it. But, either way, it's pretty annoying to see people so full of shit their eyes are brown.

This Haylen/Apok/Snow_Bunny clusterfuck is practically impossible to sort out without one of their flips. I'm placing my bet on Snow_bunny, because I think I can determine a lot of wagon intent after I have her flip. I also figure she's slightly more likely to be scum than everyone else here with the possible exception of Sucrose.

I've been reading but it's just been glazing my eyes over, so I can't imagine anything of incredible current import has occurred.

[DrippingGoofball]

On the theory that scumz aren't in a rush to post after night, wanting to see where the wind blows first, this is the order of posting after night:
DGB

SB

UK
sotty
camn

Hayl

Fen
chauchau
hoop

cepi

sucrose

Apok

On the basis of which, my vote for Apok is cemented. Also, cepi needs to die. And posting early is a small town-tell for SB.

[UncertainKitten]

@DGB: Why does cepi need to die? Or is it for reasons...ah...not necessarily related to cepi being mafia aligned?

I understand your logic, though I'm curious to see a succinct summary of what Apok stands accused of. If it already exists feel free to link me.

[DrippingGoofball]

@DGB: Why does cepi need to die? Or is it for reasons...ah...not necessarily related to cepi being mafia aligned?

I understand your logic, though I'm curious to see a succinct summary of what Apok stands accused of. If it already exists feel free to link me.

cepi: somewhat late to the day, lack of town-tells.
Apok: see earlier case, late to the day, lack of town-tells.

[UncertainKitten]

Any chance that for someone as...relaxed as myself you could provide links ^-^?

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm relaxed, too. Check about pages 6-8.

[UncertainKitten]

Awesome. Do we got a jacuzzi or something? Cause we should relax this thing up like it was no thing.

[cepi]

Dont hammer me until i've posted properly. I will be pissed.

Mmm. Haylen might be town.

Gotta get myself more of that Ojanen luv.

VOTE: Apolyptyikca

I actually got the opposite impression of this post. Specially when Haylen has just 4 votes and its at L-3. At least, this reaction is null and not the town tell you are supporting. I approve the Apoka vote though. Wholeheartedly.

Basically we need to get rid of Apoka, Bunny and Haylen. As I said, I strictly prefer Apoka going first. (Overall scummines in posting, euro suspecting her a lot, lurking scumbag when being pressured, reducing my case to "I didnt post a playstyle" when it definitely wasnt the only thing I disliked about it)

Im prob missing one scum in the side of the crafty ones but Ill leave the hard work after I get this flip.

[Sucrose]

cepi: somewhat late to the day, lack of town-tells.

Do you have a gut feel here, or are these your only reasons for wanting someone dead? I've thought cepi has seemed fairly town, though there's not a ton of her/her posts to go on. Personally I'm thinking Haylen is disorganized scum. Her rebuttal should be interesting though. I'm gonna have to re-read Snow_Bunny and Apok, Snow in particular has been fading into the background for me.

[Hoopla]

Im prob missing one scum in the side of the crafty ones but Ill leave the hard work after I get this flip.

Sometimes catching scum is easy when they all land on weak players - just like what happened in scummers mafia.

Haylen is far less scummy than Snow Bunny or Apokalyptika - though I'm a little confused how Apo's pulling ahead in the wagon race, when the justification for her votes is D1 information. It means her voters could have been on this wagon earlier, and are possibly doing so now because one of the rival wagons is scum (*cough*snow*cough*). Either that, or Apokalyptika is scum, and her buddies have decided to start bussing her now that she's come into the limelight, realising she'll be lynched some point soon and might as well get some town credit for it.

Snow Bunny's wagon has never really taken off, despite multiple signalling their intentions to lynch or at least suspect her. This is EXACTLY the sort of aura that hovers over scum - buddies leaving themself open to lynch, whilst never committing a vote to propel the wagon, and/or searching for rival wagons to push. Haylen's wagon feels week, and though the Apo wagon is justified and built on solid reasoning, it isn't as good as the Snow wagon. Plus, you've got the added bonus of her not being on the Paws wagon, which many agree is where the scum is.

I'm not calling for the collapse of the Apo wagon, but I'd like the Haylen voters to join the Snow Bunny wagon to compete with Apo. Today's lynch should be between these two.

[UncertainKitten]

Hoopla indeed speaks great sense .

[camn]

I also agree.

[RedCoyote]

I actually hadn't realized there were vote tags, which explains all the fancy little black-on-white voting I've been seeing. I type all my posts up in a notepad, a habit dating back from earlier forum days when one wrong click and Internet Explorer would gobble up an hour's worth of writing without so much as a thank you.

Anyways, I may be more flexible with votes in future games, but, as particular as it may be, I will not start mid-game.

---

Vote Count 2.3

• Haylen

  (3) (Apokalyptika - Sucrose - Fenchurch)
  
  
  Snow_Bunny

  (3) (Hoopla - camn - UncertainKitten)
  
  
  Apokalyptika

  (3) (cepi - DrippingGoofball - Ojanen)
  
  
  camn
  (2) (Haylen - Snow_Bunny)
  
  
  Snow White
  (1) (Sotty7)
  
  
  Not Voting
  (1) (

  Ojanen

  - Snow White)

With thirteen alive, it takes seven to lynch.

Current Deadline: Sept. 25th, 2010 at 10:30 AM (CST)

[Ojanen]

I agree that the 2 best wagons are Apok and SB, Haylen is inferior.
More later.

[Ojanen]

Ojanen my vote wasn't on Paws all day. My initial vote on Hoop was actually serious for the time of day I put it there. After that Paws was scummy to me, I'm not about to move my vote all over the place when I have a target in mind.

Oh yes, you voted Hoops 4 hours into the game. 16 hours later you changed the vote to Paws. I was aware of that when I said "the whole day" and I stand by it.
And this reply of yours bothers me a little too.
On what exactly is scummy about what I described: I haven't really figured out what bothers me beyond the very general so I just posted a description of your actions rather than reasoning. I'll tell you if I figure it out and if the gut continues.

[Ojanen]

I used those specific Hoopla games for analysis because the other, more recent ones were less similar to this game (had SKs, different mechanics, more unusual PRs, etc.) and I felt that I would get a clearer read with some more similar games.

Your conclusion was that Hoopla wasn't scared to draw attention to herself as scum early. In your sample of one she was less dramatic as town. For what reason did you discard the descriptions of these 2010 games (town, mini normal):

Mini 973: So, I fakeclaimed Paranoid Gun Owner in my opening post of the game.

Mini 918:
I shot Sotty7 on Page 3 of this game, hoping I would get lucky and hit someone evil to really rattle the mafia early. It didn't work, but it wasn't costly, especially after we lynched scum on D1. What was costly, was me fakeclaiming tracker on my prime target to try and get them to claim visiting the corpse, giving me a free scum kill on D2.

[Snow White]

HAI EVERYBODY!! Im replacing in and hopefully will have a post up tonight. Over a quick skim - Snow Bunny is town based on Flash Mafia meta and im highly against her lynch. Details to follow.

I also am in like of DGB. But then again i always have admired her. <333

PS. Hoopla. Are you scum this game? Cause every game i replace into, your scum. This is a most troubling re-occurance...

[Fenchurch]

Okay, I agree with DGB/Hoopla/Ojanen. I don't think the case on Haylen is as strong as I thought, and the other two are good choices.

UNVOTE:

I can't decide between Apok and Snow_Bunny though, having done ISOs on both.

The fact that esurio was NK'd implies that she was along the right track in some way, which implicates chau to some degree.

Apok, there are many other potential reasons for a night-kill. What makes you think this is the most likely explanation for esurio's?

Snow, I'm not a huge fan of, and her tunneling on camn isn't great, but I still feel my Haylen vote is the place to be.

Do you think Snow_Bunny's tunnelling is a scumtell? Towntell? Neither?