Mini 1034 - Castlevania Mafia (Game Over)

[Dekes]

First of all, tanstalas, in everyone's interest please only respond to the points that you feel are essential to this argument. I already left out some of the points because I don't want to turn this into an (even more of a) chain quoting argument.

I refuse to answer this because I have already answered it in a previous post. If you refuse to read my posts I am not going to repeat myself for your benefit.

Instead of giving a simple yes or no you're making the effort and trying to discredit me for inaccurate reading. Noted.

I find it funny you call it flailing, yet the game we played together when you were on the bubble I could say you were flailing as well, and you were town. So when you do it it is towny, when I do it it is scummy eh?

I was flailing wildly in my last game. I attacked only the townies on my wagon. People back then also thought it was scummy and therefore I got lynched as town. I said flailing can be done by both town and scum, hence why I didn't include it in my case against you.

If I have to ability claim - I have no problem with it, if my BW gets bigger I will, in fact I still have an ace up my sleeve that should pretty much guarantee me being obv-town, however there are some "issues" with it - however I am very valuable to the town, and I will not myself be lynched. Trust me, I will not by lynched today.

If you wanna stay vague, be my guest. That still doesn't explain why you were that hasty in claiming your name and softclaiming a PR when no one asked you to claim or threatened to hammer you. Simply can't see the town motivation behind this.

Again, I said PROTAGONIST - I really wish you would pay more attention - I really hate having to repeat myself. Do you have a main protagonist as your character?

Yes, I do.
And duh, main character and main protagonist are interchangable here, as I don't think anyone will claim Dracula. Additionally, there aren't really any other main characters on the good side. In most of the games it's you alone waltzing through a castle, beating up a lot of baddies until you get to stake Dracula.

I agree - maybe not any of these things individually would me scumtells - however they are tells, and when I get a few on one person it starts to get hard to ignore.

I'm not saying you should ignore them. But you completely disregard the fact that it could be simply town being wrong and instead you're accusing all of your attrackers as being scum based on the reasons above.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2419606

And I quote from you -

And dammit, tanstalas, for your #356. There are several things I was going to add into my post as well. Now it will be me parroting and buddying and whatnot all over again.

So in that last game we played together - you referred to it as parroting, now it's not? Hello? Contradictory train pulling into the station!

a) I was being sarcastic in that quote of yours
b) Ask around what parroting means. If it's simply every time somebody says that's already been said then there's a hell of a lot parroting going on around here.
c) To clarify this right here and now, I'll give you an example
Example A:
Player A makes a case against Player B. Player A votes Player B.
Player C comes in, takes the key points from Player A's case, paraphrases it and says:"Here, I made a great case against Player B, too. Vote: Player B!"
Example B:
Player A makes a case against Player B. Player A votes Player B.
Player C:"Player A, those are valid points you brought forward, I agree with those. Vote: Player B!"
In my eyes only example A is parroting. I did the latter when I was acknowledging katsuki's point against you. Yet you said I was parroting and pegged me as scum for it.

UK is the most active person in this game...

Not when it comes to scumhunting. She admits so herself. You defending her when not even being addressed. Noted.

Another thing I find interesting. So far this entire game you have had 6 posts. Which at this point in the game consists of 2.7% of total posts. Going back to our first game at the time you got lynched you were at 9.7% of posts. Again you were town that game, I find you doing a lot of stuff differently this game than in the game where you were town.

That must be the most useless argument so far. You are aware, that the activity of the other players directly affects my percentage? And this game is way more active/spammery (namely zwetsch) than the other game. I may not post on every page, but I rather make my posts count. And

that

you can see in all of my games.

And this time - Dekes - I do want an answer of who you will be going after tomorrow if I get lynched and when I flip town.

No.
I will not speculate on relations yet unless I've seen your flip. Especially after you claimed you're sure you're not gonna get lynched.

@UK
#226
There's been two wagons already and opinions and accusations all over the place and yet you insist there's nothing that would warrant further investigation. And to top it off, you're not doing anything to change that. Now if that ain't as anti-town as MPR's and McG's absence (God, I hate inactivity).

#232
To raise their value for the town and avoid their lynch.

I do agree however with tanstalas that I don't like zwetsch's behaviour at all (that's right, I'm agreeing with possible scum here, that his possible scumbuddy could possibly be scum).
I don't know, if he wants to lure out scum with his teasing, but it's way to plump and obvious. I may Iso him later, but what I got from him so far is only distracting and not beneficial to town. He seems to be feeling too safe, being sure, tans will be the lynch of today, occasionally adding fuel to the tans wagon. He could use more pressure:

Unvote; Vote: zwetschenwasser

Pedit:
I should vote McG right now on the spot. "I am unintrigued by anyones statements thus far."? Does it get more non-commital? If I hadn't played with him before and didn't want to apply pressure on zwetsch now, I'd vote for McG for sure.

[Kdub]

Vote Count

LynchMePls (0)

-

drmyshottyizsik (0)

-

jenniwren (0)

-

UncertainKitten (1)

- McGriddle

MehPlusRawr (0)

-

Katsuki (0)

-

Dekes (0)

-

Coach Travis (1)

- jenniwren

zwetschenwasser (5)

- UncertainKitten, Coach Travis, VasudeVa, tanstalas, Dekes

McGriddle (0)

-

VasudeVa (0)

-

tanstalas (3)

- zwetschenwasser, LynchMePls, Katsuki

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (2)

- drmyshottyizsik, MehPlusRawr

12 votes available, 7 votes needed to lynch.

Deadline is September 16, ~ 9 am PDT.

drmyshottyizsik has picked up his prod. If he does not post within the next day or so, I will replace him.

[zwetschenwasser]

pressure, Dekes? on zwet?

Unvote; Vote: zwetschenwasser

OOH MORE PRESSURE LOOK LOOK!

[UncertainKitten]

@Dekes: The thing is, the wagon analysis only gets REALLY USEFUL once I have flips. So I need flips, or I need someone saying something town wouldn't say. Do you get what I mean now?

To be fair, I have been pushing various information out there since the start of the game that I can likely pick up later when I have more information.

Didn't get time today to make proper post. Will get to UK's post on tans claim.

Meanwhile, jenniwen, MPR and McGriddle are lurking quite happily.

So they are ^-^. There might be something in there to look for .

Jenni's post does make sense so I'm not as worried about her.

And, can't really argue with McGriddle, I feel mostly the same way . Well, I understand the cases, they just aren't good.

And zwet is being zwet. Good to know.

[UncertainKitten]

Unvote, Vote MPR

He's an interesting little fella. He's been posting elsewhere, yet conveniently ignoring here. I wonder why ^-^.

[Dekes]

@Dekes: The thing is, the wagon analysis only gets REALLY USEFUL once I have flips. So I need flips, or I need someone saying something town wouldn't say. Do you get what I mean now?

I do get it. Problem is, before any flip there will always be Day 1. We don't have flips, we can't analyze wagons properly, so we have to work through other means in the hopes to catch scum, pressure being one of the more effective ones. And you're refusing to take part in this because you haven't seen anyone doing anything that would warrant a vote. If anyone would behave like this we'd have a pretty boring and useless Day 1. We have to apply pressure on people (based on absurd reasons if necessary) and hope somebody slips. Sure, you can observe all of this and let others do that kind of work. But you are part of the game and I think it's anti-town not to engage actively into scumhunting on Day 1.

@zetsch
We get it, you're crazy. It's really funny and original and whatnot. But could you clarify for me, how your doing is beneficial to town? You can start off with that dandy L-1 selfvoting of yours.

Pedit:
I like pressure on lurkers who are active elsewhere on the forum. And to avoid some kind of quickhammer on zwetsch (though I can't really express why I want to avoid it):

Unvote; Vote: MPR

[VasudeVa]

@UK, you're uncomfortably fencesitting and playing mediator for most of the game so far. I'm a little worried because when I was scum against you, you were a Town force to be reckoned with, even if it was D1 and you knew nothing at that point. What's up with you in this game?

Although, I do understand that the cases are currently not worth noticing at this point, but still this is a massive change from what I previously knew of you. However, I am conflicted because if I was Town in that previous game, I'd have gone after you still. Here, you are not acting like Town-You, but I seem to have a good Town read on you impartially not counting meta.

Anyway, I'll be nice and answer your older question here: I'm meh on it because I see little point. I've seen it fail or help absolutely no one(in fact, it had disastrous results when I tried it in Advance Wars Mafia. xP.). So, it's a pointless exercise that is possibly anti-town. It's not ANTI-TOWN ROARR(like zwet here.), it's possibly anti-town, possibly pointless.

[MehPlusRawr]

Unvote, Vote MPR

He's an interesting little fella. He's been posting elsewhere, yet conveniently ignoring here. I wonder why ^-^.

I subconsciously give games where I'm getting hammered as town/are in twilight have precedence over other games. Yes, I've been meaning to post here.


Anyways. I finally ISO'd tanstalas. Or, at least, I'm going to. Now.

#0-44 or whatever the number was: Lots of OMGUSes.
ISO #2 (his third post, post 1 counts as #0. *shrug*) is shameless and terrible bandwagoning.
#4 is oddly specific. "I do not know who is scum and who is mafia." Townies normally don't feel the need to specify this. (UK, you taught me something about looking for scum intent! Huzzah! Wait. Maybe you didn't. Dammit.)
#8 Randomly calling people scum.
#10 More obviousness
#all the rest are probably scummy but I don't have time to read them now. Whoops.

Ehh, I like him as a lynch.

Vote: Tanstalas

[UncertainKitten]

There was more information in that game, VV. You'll note that I was able to derive scum from the theory questions regarding the sleep cycle, and then find the breakdown of scum vs. town. Further, I died D1, and thus was able to deduce things without being personally involved for catching the rest of the scum (not that it helped).

Right now there hasn't been any strong fight I can draw conclusions from. I guarantee though, that the information that's floating about now WILL become more important once we have flips. But as it stands I don't have enough data.

@Dekes: But I have been scumhunting, and I've been voting since about Page 3. You at the very least have wagon analysis from me when people flip. And also note I said that when people say things with scum intent, I'll leap into action. I usually end up jumping in a week or two into D1 because someone's finally said something that can be used.

In this case though, it's what's not been said that has led me to vote MPR, and his...rather convenient appearance when people start noticing him has not done anything to ease my mind. Further, his vote sucks.

As for post 4, given his later posts about generally having an SK in his games, and linking as such, I don't think it's as indicative as it could be.

Of course, since you didn't read after his ISO post 10, you probably don't get to the point where he becomes kinda obv newb.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Rather, be able to use my actions in wagon analysis.

[MehPlusRawr]

I *read* the thread, I often just don't have much to say/am too lazy to post.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, that naturally helps scum more than town since the less said the less you reveal about your intent.

[MehPlusRawr]

Add that to my list of reasons why everybody thinks I'm scum. Always.

[LimMePls]

Add that to my list of reasons why everybody thinks I'm scum. Always.

But you don't care to actually do something about it? Why play mafia if you are only a liability when you are town, and you are always suspected when you are scum?

[MehPlusRawr]

'cause it's fun. =D

[zwetschenwasser]

touche

[Coach Travis]

However, right now my gut on him is that he is town, because reading through his frustrations seem genuine to me,

Is this completely by gut, or is there some reason you can point to in this particular instance that is town-flailing as opposed to scum-flailing?

I know others have talked about this by now(curse my lack of computer time!), but mentally going back through my two games where I was flailing and comparing them to Tans, he's closer to the town one because he's at least trying to help the town in any way he thinks he can, he just doesn't seem to be very good at it. So no, it wasn't totally by gut, a lot of it is out of experience, because I know as newb town when I flailed around I looked equally clueless, yet kept helping attempt to catch scum, where as flailing scum I'd lurk until I had a chance to vote to blend in with town in a bandwagon. Basically, he seems more to me like a frustrated townie than a scum, and just reading his posts I feel the frustrations of a townie stuck in a wagon desperately trying to get out of it, but not really knowing how to make good arguments. Basically, there's a chance he is fact just a sloppy scum, but right now I don't feel that way and think zwet would be the much better lynch, because he seems more in control of himself, and looks like he's deliberately playing scummy, which I don't like.

I also agree about lurking being a big problem, and if I wasn't so convinced zwet was scum, I'd consider voting MPR as well, just because he needs to contribute something soon. In other news, I'm liking Dekes so far, so there's someone else I could add to my list of town reads. Right now my only strong scum read is zwet, but I'm not liking the inaction from MPR, and anyone I haven't mentioned could potentially be scum, but I still haven't had enough time to look into them. I will, when I have the time, which may not be for a while, as I'm now sick, to make things even worse.

[zwetschenwasser]

explain what makes your scumread on me "strong"

[Coach Travis]

I'm mostly not liking how you're playing so far, answering everything so vaguely, not giving a lot of information, I think only scum would play like that. Especially since you seem to be experienced, so it's not like you have an excuse to play that way. And your constant use of "irrelevant" and the like is getting annoying. Basically, to me it just seems like you're doing everything you can to avoid contributing a whole lot, while Tans is at least making an effort, he's just not doing a very good job of it.

[Coach Travis]

Also, you're willingness to vote yourself is just ridiculous, and the last time I saw someone do that it was an insane scum. Obviously, that's a minor thing, but still...

[zwetschenwasser]

I actually just play that way normally. My meta is one-liners in general, if you want to take the time to look over some of my completed games.

[tanstalas]

@Dekes

- While I would love to answer your latest post I am going to refuse until you answer the questions I posed at you. I do not know why you will not do this, as I mentioned in the previous game we played you had tons of hypothesis about if X flips then I'm going to suspect Y, and you did these of your own free will, noone even asked you to. I do not think this is an unreasonable request.

@MPR

- WHAT. THE. FUCK.

You come into this game, look at just my posts and vote me? As well, you read them in ISO which means you read them out of context.

This is very suspicious to me. You look like someone who has replaced into a game as scum, skipped to the end, saw who the bandwagons were on and picked one and attempted to make a case. Seriously, this far into the game I don't think you should be placing a serious vote on someone based on reading them just in ISO and out of context. This at the best looks like lazy town and at the worst opportunistic scum. Also when you came in Zwet was at L-1 (I think) and you did not feel the need to ISO him? How curious

I also noticed your posting (a lot) in other games - however I did not think we could comment on them. Can someone clarify that for rule for me? Does it just mean we can't comment on the actual posts in the game?

There have also been a ton of questions asked (not just by me) that you chose not to answer.

I would be tempted to switch to you just to get pressure on you so you would actually read the thread and make an informed decision - but..

@Zwet

- a self-vote? Really? I always thought this was bad to do as town. In fact just by coincidence I happened to be reading some threads last night and one of them talked about self-hammering. Now - I am nowhere as experienced as you are by any means - however a lot of the people in that thread who commented on were, and the main vibe I got from them were that for the most part they were against it, some said that they would self-hammer in some cases as scum, however I don't think any (maybe one or two people) said they would do it as town. I have never played with you, I skimmed your 57 pages of posts last night and I see that you are mostly a 1 sentence posting kind of guy. Can you please advise why though, as a town member you would self-vote? Maybe the above thread doesn't really apply to you as you didn't "self-hammer" you just put yourself on the bubble, but still curious as to why you would do that?

[UncertainKitten]

Going to note self votes are not scummy or townie, just fucking stupid.

[tanstalas]

I actually just play that way normally. My meta is one-liners in general, if you want to take the time to look over some of my completed games.

I can vouch for that, after his "PUSH PUSH PUSH" post last night I skimmed though all his 57 pages of posts on this site looking for the word "flailing" or "defense" to try and poke holes in his statement that defense is more pro-town than "flailing" (I still prefer the term scum hunting).

Though, you are being asked to answer questions, and in other games you did answer questions, this game you just seem to like to frustrate the entire playerbase of this game by not answering anything.

[zwetschenwasser]

self-voting is just another way to express my inner craziness. by all means, believe all the other experienced players when they say that things like self-voting is ridiculously scummy (it is, by the way), but understand that I actually pride myself on an eccentric playstyle.