Mini 1039 Lost: Season One (Over)

[HackerHuck]

Hey hacker what do ya think of vezok not claiming any flavour for his investigation when asked?

I'm not happy about either of them avoiding the flavour claim, but unless Dekes comes up with something brilliant I can't see a reason not to lynch him.

My last bit references the fact that whether we do the test or not, it has no real impact on his survival, because I don't think that both he and Dekes are scum.

I'm seriously befuddled by all this talk of a lyncher. It doesn't make any sense given what we've heard so far. I'm not very familiar with a lyncher, but I assumed that they're looking for a specific role, not a specific player. Considering Dekes is claiming a different role than what Vezok was calling for, I would find it incredibly lucky on Vezok's part to have found his role so easily. It would also imply that Dekes knows that someone was looking for him. Lastly, I don't see how it fits flavour-wise with Boone, Ethan, or Claire.

[Faraseradayaphim]

Lyncher would generally know the player they're getting lynched.

Say vezok is one he'd probably be told : You know Dekes is Claire Littleton or something like that. I'd usually tend to agree, but I thibnk Dekes not claiming comes across as quite pro town in this instance (look at it from his pov with a fake character being claimed on you).

[jasonT1981]

If he wants to win I'll help him, if he keeps up this charade he'll end up losing what could be an easy game.

And if he really is a lyncher, lynching a town role you would support that? I don't see a lyncher achieving his win condition by lynching scum... as that is all our win conditions (except those who are scum) I support lynch on scummy people.. not to help a hypo lyncher win.

[Faraseradayaphim]

I'll adress this at a later date (i.e. scum/town lynchee) if vezok confirms. He's a 50% chance of winning this way. You, jason, shush for the moment, please.

[xRECKONERx]

chesskid3 (1): jasonT1981
Dekes (3): vezokpiraka, TheLonging, HackerHuck
BloodCovenent (2): Dekes, MagnaofIllusion
Ademisk (1): BloodCovenent

Not voting (5): dramonic, jenniwren, Ademisk, chesskid3, Faraseradayaphim

12 alive, 7 to lynch.

[jasonT1981]

oh wow... i still have my RVS vote on lol

unvote

[dramonic]

Wait, you would support a lyncher getting his win cause?... in my experience with lynchers and it is limited to my admission... A lyncher is never set out to lynch an anti-town role. That would mean willingly supporting a lynch of a town role??? thats not very pro town.

I have personal experience with making lynchers aiming at scum roles.

CEBM had one aiming at the SK
GP2 mafia (comodded with Reck) had one too.
In SWN II, the lyncher was after a jester.

Point being, lynchers are definitely not inherently bad.

I can fall along with giving Vezok his little win.

[jasonT1981]

Ok,I actualyl had never seen a lyncher with a scum target....I beleive the one time I was lyncher my target was a protown role. I knew the persons name and role before hand as I recall. I played with a lyncher in another game not so long ago, and it was also a pro-town role the lyncher had to lynch

[BloodCovenent]

Oh I see.
It's annoying to know what happens in the other seasons but everything that happens there is not related.
I think the scums are : Ethan, Black Smoke , Polar Bear. LOL.

scummy post. Black some doesn't feel like a scum role. more like a third party.

Huck is town.

[TheLonging]

if anything black smoke would be like an SK rather than scum

[MagnaofIllusion]

Regarding the Vezo Cop / Lyncher debate –

Dekes is scum. I called it here and now. I want credit for it.

This is posted before the game actually started. Vezo acknowledges that he knows the game wasn’t currently started in post 18.

So if he is a Daycop (as is being claimed) he made his scan and got his response before the game was started by Reck. That seems unlikely.

Or he’s an autotargetting Daycop.

Or he’s a lyncher.

Obv solution is obv.

Also this is vanillaless if I remember correctly.

This is scumtastic. Depending on how player react it gives the scum team a roadmap to who is likely VTs and who are Power Roles.

I am day name-cop. I targetted Dekes with my ability. I picked him at random and I really want to see something.

So you are claiming that you role-copped Dekes (a new to MS player and not an Alt IMO) over any number of proven vets?

Sorry. When day was first announced I sent the ability and checked the result when I came back.

This doesn’t seem to jibe with your Post 16 where you claimed Dekes was scum before the Day started.

Good luck with that, scum.

How is suggesting a policy lynch a scumtell?

Actually if VEZO is a daynamecop he'll be able to give us another name tomorrow with no worry of roleblocks. I mean if he dies tonight well his flip confirms Dekes as scum, or if he dies and flips lyncher it confirms dekes as Claire.

We can test him tomorrow by using his daycop to guess someone's name. If he guesses right - then he's prob town and dekes is prob scum, if he doesn't welp we know he's lying scum/lyncher. Anyone have any thoughts? I actually think it's a pretty good idea.

Regarding your assertions –

1. If Vezo is NKed / lynched and flips Boone – Daycop that confirms Dekes is scum.
2. If he dies and flips Lyncher how does that confirm Dekes isn’t scum? Claire certainly could be part of a flavor scrambled Mafia.
3. If Vezo is a Daycop how does it confirm him as Town? Scum Daycops are fairly common. As scum he could easily ‘confirm’ the fake claim of a Scum partner.

I don’t really see any upside to Vezo ‘proving’ himself. That said I don’t see his play as coming from scum.

I feel that if everyone name claimed only then that would make it harder for others to fake claim later. just my opinion =/

1. If scum have fake-claims how is this useful?
2. Why don’t you consider that Reck could also easily monkey with flavor in determining who is scum?
3. How isn’t this asking for Town PRs to out themselves?

Scumtastic, all the way around.

Post is noted that you first brought up the idea of a lyncher.

Your point?

Also why can we assume that name claims will out PR's? Yeah, Jack is a really obvious one, but what the fuck else? Hurley? Serial Killer? Come on.

If you can’t come up with likely Lost characters who align closely with Thief (cop variant), Vig, Miller or Masonizer you aren’t trying very hard.

My vote is where it stands because I don't believe dekes. It's also a good way to test vezok's claim. I'm starting to slightly doubt it, but it's not enough for me to move my vote.

You don’t believe Dekes, but are starting to doubt Vezo? Fencesitting anyone?

Ademisk, it makes no sense for vezok to just declare someone Ethan, because It's incredibly likely that we're lynching Dekes today, and then if he isn't Ethan, Vezok is in some shit, which is why I believe Vezok, and I'd guess the same is true of FaraSera.

Lynchers usually are removed from the game the instant they accomplish their goal. Vezo’s play makes no sense as Scum but plenty of sense as Lyncher.

At this point I’d be willing to lynch HH, BC, Longing or Vezo. Giving Vezo his lyncher win doesn't serve Town's purposes if Dekes is Town. So far I see little evidence that makes be believe Dekes is scum.

[chesskid3]

Magna, why are you willing to lynch HH? You only commented on one thing he said, and that was to ask a question.

I'm not getting the greatest vibe from you at the moment, as it seems more like you want to tear other people's arguments down than actually make any of your own.
Since I'd like you to post some thoughts.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

[vezokpiraka]

So fara is right.
I thought about claiming when I went to bed.
TL is scum because he has a post on page 6(will quote it in a moment where he says the lyncher speculation is bad and he wants dekes lynched. He is probably scum knowing that dekes is town and wants him dead.
Now I caught you scum and I really want to win this game.

Dekes is Claire alright. I am Ethan and I have the fake claim Boone. And yes I am a lyncher.

Even if you wouldn't believe me as a name cop on day 1 I had the masterful plan of guessing chesskid's role as Hurley.
And yes I am a lyncher.
The scums are probably infiltrated in your groups and don't need fake claims. Here I helped you as much as I could.

[vezokpiraka]

I don't think this game is vanillaless, but I agree this lyncher speculation is poor

Here is the quote.

[chesskid3]

You called me fat.

It's 4am, that's all I could process of what you said. I'll actually think about this after some sleep

[jenniwren]

Chess...that's all you get from being called Hurley? Hurley > all. And I mean that in every sense of the word GREATER.

[chesskid3]

Nah man Sawyer was the coolest character ever

[jenniwren]

Sawyer is cool...but Hurley is GREAT. The beauty of Lost, though, is the characters. Love them or hate them, they are all so real and alive. And so great for so many different reasons.

[chesskid3]

Yeah,...gonna have to re-read that one in the morning too

[chesskid3]

ONe question, Vezo, can you explain your win conditions?

[Dekes]

First of all, thank you, vezo, for dropping the charade.
Secondly, there's a lot of truth in MoI's post

I'm not getting the greatest vibe from you at the moment, as it seems more like you want to tear other people's arguments down than actually make any of your own.
Since I'd like you to post some thoughts.

inb4 chainsaw defense, but wtf? He was spot on with the Lyncher analysis before vezo claimed and he's questioning the people who were blindly following that claim. I may be a bit biased here, because it lputs me in a good light, but after the shit that's been thrown at me, I think I deserve that. People considering lynching the lynchee nonetheless to "get rid of the distraction". Now if that isn't anti-town...Lyncher's win condition =/= Town's win condition and a Lyncher is not a pro-town role, he may be aligned to the town but he's working towards his own goal and doesn't care if it decreases town's chances of winning.
Now that that's out of the way, I would rather look at the people who hopped onto my wagon, because let's face it, whether scum knew there was a Lyncher involved or whatever, they know I'm town and the scenario would've provided a perfectly excusable townie lynch ("We had a dayname cop with Ethan Rom as a result. That's practically a guilty, what else was I supposed to do?").
I'm still looking at TL, BC now with HH as backup, because I maintain the assumption, that rather town would doubt such a claim, especially after the holes of Vezo's story had been pointed out. Scum would be more stubborn with an easy mislynch right in front of them.
I don't think all three of them are scum who took the bait, but I'm guessing at least one scum is among them. Now I don't like how BC declared HH town just like that. I've read a couple of games and apparently it's been done like that by the pros around here. But imo it leaves too much room for manipulation.
Btw, HH, why would you expect a cc to Vezo's claim? A dayname cop seemed like an arbitrary role made up especially to avoid being cc'd. I was thinking that even before Vezo fessed up.

[Faraseradayaphim]

2. If he dies and flips Lyncher how does that confirm Dekes isn’t scum? Claire certainly could be part of a flavor scrambled Mafia.

I'm outguessing the mod. I also believe Claire's probably gonna be town.

3. If Vezo is a Daycop how does it confirm him as Town? Scum Daycops are fairly common. As scum he could easily ‘confirm’ the fake claim of a Scum partner.

Fairly Common? Link to a game with one, please. I don't remember ever seeing one, Vezok's obviously not a scum rolecop anyway putting himself in a 1/1 as scum would be utterly retarded, or obviously wasn't with the way he approached the whole thing, thus confirming his abillity confirmed his alignment.

Vezok claiming is good. Dekes is probably town from his play anyway. No way we're lynching him. The problem is what do we do with Vezok? We can't really afford tio waste a lynch on a 3rd party neutral and nor do I want to but he's problematic if the game gets to lylo.

In other news I'm unhappy with jason. I think it was obvious I wasn't actually going to let vezok have his win. I mean I'm not a fucking moron. It would have been in scum;s best interests to ruin vezok claiming so this argument could be played out longer probably resulting in a nonscum lynch, from dekes/vezok.

Vezok : What happens if Dekes dies via nightkill
Have you any information about Dekes Alignment?

[Faraseradayaphim]

In other news, jenniwren avoided the whole iussue of Dekes/Vezok apart from the initial claim. Who's scum Jenni? Your last few posts have been talking about nothing game related.

[BloodCovenent]

I feel that if everyone name claimed only then that would make it harder for others to fake claim later. just my opinion =/

1. If scum have fake-claims how is this useful?
2. Why don’t you consider that Reck could also easily monkey with flavor in determining who is scum?
3. How isn’t this asking for Town PRs to out themselves?

Post is noted that you first brought up the idea of a lyncher.

Your point?

1. You assume they have fake claims. If they did, this would be the first game that i have been in that scum were given fake claims aside from just suggesting that they claim Spartacus.
2. Are you suggesting that a trio of like... Jack, Kate, and Hurley would be scum?
3. It's possible. However if scum did not have fake claims it could be useful.


The person who brought up the idea of someone being a lyncher is (imo) just as scummy as someone who brings up the idea of a jester. It's a scum tactic to distract the town from a possible scum lynch.

[jasonT1981]

1. You assume they have fake claims. If they did, this would be the first game that i have been in that scum were given fake claims aside from just suggesting that they claim Spartacus.


.

Actually, BC it is not..... you played in GB Mafia, though replacing out. Scum were given fake claims. I'm not sure if you kept up with the game after you left though or not.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&t=14705