Mini #1022- PokeUPick(Game Over)

[mikeburnfire]

Honestly, I'm going to go ahead and call BULLSHIT on this.

Is there anybody with weird nonstandard roles like this? If so, say YES, that's all. Dont say what it is.

My reasoning- So far all roles revealed do normal things. Espeonage's claim doesnt. Therefore, Espeonage is lying.

vote espeonage

Role fishing much? Personally, I'd consider LIGHTNINGROD to be pretty non-standard.

Also- We need more posting from Jarti and MBF. Xite- your vig kill goes there, hmm?

Curious. Why me? I posted pretty frequently day 1, and I had some pretty good posts, I thought. I'm nowhere near as bad as Jarti.

[jimfinn]

I'm going to do a reread of D1 with notice of Vezok's flip before I vote, but I am definitely against lynching Espeonage today. I recommend that we do not.

[Robocopter87]

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Vote Count

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jimfinn [0]
NicolBolas [0]

Espeonage [3] Gandalf5166, Nicolbolas, Xite91

gandalf5166 [1] Espeonage
Prox [0]
bv310 [0]
Jarti [0]
Xite91 [0]
Switz [0]
mikeburnfire [0]

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Not Voting

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jimfinn, Prox, bv310, Jarti, Switz, mikeburnfire

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Amount to Lynch

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With 10 Alive it is 6 to Lynch.

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Deadline

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None yet.

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[bv310]

Okay, have none of you ever seen a Friendly Neighbour role? It's really not that rare.

[jimfinn]

What does that role mean, bv?

[bv310]

Basically, it allows a player to confirm themselves as their role to another player. http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... _Neighbour

Last time I saw it was in Advance Wars: Mafia Rising, which is more than likely where Robo got the idea from (he was in the game, and we both got to see firsthand exactly how cool the role is): http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 54&t=14393

[gandalf5166]

Yes, but this role 1. Doesn't say who sent the fish and 2. Doesn't ACTUALLY confirm him as town.

[Jarti]

Is there anybody with weird nonstandard roles like this? If so, say YES, that's all. Dont say what it is.

YES

vote: gandalf

is there a reason all suspicion has dropped from him since yesterday after everyone was like "if dmsis flips town gandalf isn't clear". Not to mention the wagon completely deflating and shifting to dmsis when dmsis got to L-2. pretty much only esp voting him when he should def have more votes

besides gandalf claimed roleblocker to further 'contradict' and further the dmsis lynch anyway, and I can see scum roleblocker so easy in a set-up of lots of town PRs. not to mention I'm fine believing espy is town due to his role & if gandalf flips scum roleblocker it only adds to espy's cred

[NicolBolas]

With the above couple posts, i can see that my vote is useless.

I'm gonna

unvote

.

I have a large post coming up tomorrow. I've gotta go to sleep- school....

[Switz]

A few things:

1) In looking back over the game, MBF and Jarti have thus far declined to nameclaim, although Jarti just softclaimed having a nonstandard role so the chances of getting them to do so is slim to none. However, I shall anyways.

MBF and Jarti: Are you willing to nameclaim (and not flavor- or full-claim) now, as the remainder of the game has? If not, why?

2) These are the claimed night actions we have so far.

Xite: Vigged Espeonage
Gandalf: Roleblocked Espeonage
Espeonage: Gave a Magikarp to ??? (I feel we should be asking for a claim on this)
Mystery Person: Killed Vezo

I've added in the "Mystery Person" for one reason: unless Xite is completely lying about his flavor (in which case he is scum), Xite cannot have killed Vezo, because a Vig kill would have looked all watery and suchlike.

So, using Occam's Razor and all that philosophical baggage that goes with it, the most likely scenarios for what happened tonight are the following:

--Xite is lying. He is scum and either he or a scumbuddy killed Vezo. Gandalf roleblocked Espeonage, and no one received a Magikarp tonight. There is no other Vigilante or SK.

--Gandalf is lying. He is scum and either he or a scumbuddy killed Vezo. Xite Vigged Espeonage, but Espeonage somehow managed to survive. This is either because Gandalf is really a scum roleblocker who blocked Xite or because a Doc (who should not claim unless absolutely necessary) saved Espeonage.

There are obviously other options here, so these are by no means the only ones that we should consider. But what these indicate is that our lynch for today should almost certainly be either Xite or Gandalf, and I'm leaning towards the latter.

Vote: Gandalf

3) Various questions:

Gandalf: What is the flavor for your roleblock?
Espeonage: Do you know if someone received a Magikarp from you successfully, and/or who did you target?
Prox: So are you in or out? If it's in, let's have some content; make yourself useful.
Jarti: Am I still as "obvscum" as you seem to imply D1? Why or why not?

[Espeonage]

I targetted bv night 0. I targetted Gandalf last night. I could see gandalf lying. He knows that he got a magikarp and so can easily say he roleblocked me and didn't get one. So I'm inclined towards the second scenario there.

[Prox]

Prox: So are you in or out? If it's in, let's have some content; make yourself useful.

In. Gimme a while to get my wits together. It will happen, though.

magikarp doesn't prove Espeonage's alliance in the least. I say we ignore the claim and [only] lynch him if he's scummy.

[mikeburnfire]

Okay, have none of you ever seen a Friendly Neighbour role? It's really not that rare.

I've never seen it, but now that you mention it, I think I've heard of it vaguely.

is there a reason all suspicion has dropped from him [gandalf] since yesterday [...]

I still think he's suspicious. He seems very opportunistic, and yes, mafia roleblocker is a common mafia power role.

1) In looking back over the game, MBF and Jarti have thus far declined to nameclaim,

Jarti has already nameclaimed. As for me, I was just wondering how long it would take for somebody to point it out.

Are you willing to nameclaim (and not flavor- or full-claim) now, as the remainder of the game has? If not, why?

Probably. I don't think my role can be determined from my character. What is your opinion on flavor claims? Do you think that they can help find scum?

So, using Occam's Razor and all that philosophical baggage that goes with it...

I don't think we're guaranteed to have scum between Xite and Gandalf. We could have a roleblocker and scumroleblocker. Or the mafia could have a doctor, which is a pretty common scumpowerrole. I doubt that Xite lied about his kill flavor, though. If he's mafia or SK and claims Day 1, it's because he wants to pretend to help the town with his kill. It wouldn't make sense to forfeit his kill, especially since he was given a blank check to kill whomever he wants from a list.

I targetted bv night 0

Night 0 was cancelled, if I recall correctly.

I believe that Espeonage DID send a Magicarp to Gandalf, or at least tried to. He nudged gandalf and practically asked him to confirm his role:

Sadly that didn't work out seeing as we lost a cop. Now I would like to hear from gandalf.

So I believe his role, but not necessarily his alignment. Gandalf quickly shot back:

I roleblocked Espeonage. I suspect that I may have blocked the mafia kill, and that Xite shot vezok.

...which is a lot of assumptions to make, considering the flavor was off on the vezok-kill.

I'm magikarp salesman. Each night I send someone a magikarp. In a mini game with this many power roles scum don't get fairly useless abilities.

Oh, so you could have had your partner say that they had received a fish from you? Good thing you decided to actually read the thread this morning, or your plan would have gone awry.

That's really pushing it. A lie like that would only work once or twice, and would likely unravel the whole scumgroup if used.

In summation, I believe Espeonage's role claim. I also believe that one of two things is likely true: That we have a mafia doctor, or a mafiaroleblocker (likely Gandalf)

[Switz]

1) In looking back over the game, MBF and Jarti have thus far declined to nameclaim,

Jarti has already nameclaimed. As for me, I was just wondering how long it would take for somebody to point it out.

I actually think I noticed yesterday, I just either forgot or decided it was a D2 kind of question. And you're right, I skimmed right past it when I ISOed Jarti last night.

"mikeburnfire"]

Are you willing to nameclaim (and not flavor- or full-claim) now, as the remainder of the game has? If not, why?

Probably. I don't think my role can be determined from my character. What is your opinion on flavor claims? Do you think that they can help find scum?

I guess flavorclaims depend on the situation. Here I don't think they're going to help, because Sabrina, for example, ended up a Cop even though that's really got nothing to do with her character in either the game or the anime. So I think it's possible for scum to tweak their flavor to look town or lie completely. Ask me again in a few Days.

And are you going to nameclaim then?

I believe that Espeonage DID send a Magicarp to Gandalf, or at least tried to. He nudged gandalf and practically asked him to confirm his role:

Sadly that didn't work out seeing as we lost a cop. Now I would like to hear from gandalf.

So I believe his role, but not necessarily his alignment. Gandalf quickly shot back:

I roleblocked Espeonage. I suspect that I may have blocked the mafia kill, and that Xite shot vezok.

...which is a lot of assumptions to make, considering the flavor was off on the vezok-kill.

QFT. It really sucks that we lost N0 because we'd know for sure, but that makes sense. If Gandalf got a fish overnight, and is scum, he'd know that Espeonage was a safe bet for today because no one else could confirm his role/alignment until tomorrow.

[NicolBolas]

--Xite is lying. He is scum and either he or a scumbuddy killed Vezo. Gandalf roleblocked Espeonage, and no one received a Magikarp tonight. There is no other Vigilante or SK.

--Gandalf is lying. He is scum and either he or a scumbuddy killed Vezo. Xite Vigged Espeonage, but Espeonage somehow managed to survive. This is either because Gandalf is really a scum roleblocker who blocked Xite or because a Doc (who should not claim unless absolutely necessary) saved Espeonage.

I disagree with this. There is one more option- Both Xite and Gandalf was not lying. Xite vigged espeonage, but somebody blocked Xite or docced Espeonage. Gandalf blocked Espeonage. The scum is somewhere else.
What Switz proposes here is a false dilemma.

MBF- I didnt recall you posting enough D1. I take that back now. Though, Jarti is still unacceptable.

I feel that Switz is scum. It is hard to quantify, but I'm uncomfortable with how switz has been posting.

unvote, vote switz

[Espeonage]

I will agree switz is riding the line of IIoA.

[mikeburnfire]

And are you going to nameclaim then?

Probably.

I feel that Switz is scum. It is hard to quantify, but I'm uncomfortable with how switz has been posting.

We have a claimed vigilante who insists he was sabotaged, a Salesman who claims he can prove his role but did not, a dead cop, and a suspicious roleblocker; and you choose to vote Switz because you feel uncomfortable with his playstyle. Nicol, I thought you were playing well yesterday, but I take it back.

Everyone, look back over Nicol's posts. Check out the crazy amount of his early defensiveness of Gandalf early on. After votes start adding on, he vote Gandalf, but tells him not to claim. I can tell he really wants to unvote him, though. He keeps saying "If you make a defense, I'll unvote you!". He has stated on five occasions that he wants Gandalf lynched. Now that we have a new day, all that willingness to lynch is gone. When it became a case of Espeonage vs Gandalf, he took Gandalf's side, rolefished, tried to direct a vigilante kill (at lurkers instead of scum), and now quickly hops on switz for lousy reasoning. All of these are reasons to believe Nicol is scum with Gandalf.

On the other hand, Gandalf has only addressed Nicol once all game: just recently, when he attacked espeonage. Not talking to/about your scumpartner is a rookie scum mistake, and Gandalf says that he'd attack Nicol once Espeonage is killed and revealed to be scum, which is convenient if Espeonage is killed and revealed to be town.

vote: Gandalf

[Espeonage]

Way to steal my plan for tomorrow. That was my either opener or night thinking material. So yeah the connection has already been noted.

[mikeburnfire]

Well, since you're so perceptive on this, maybe you feel more inclined to give your opinion on others?

[Espeonage]

Who would you like my opinion on.

[mikeburnfire]

Anyone. I haven't seen much scumhunting from you all game except on Gandalf. The hammer on Drmy doesn't count since you never gave any reason other than "meta". Also, the fact that you called it a "deliberate mislynch" makes you look incredibly scummy. Now is not the time to be holding back opinions.

[Espeonage]

I'm not holding back opinions. Gandalf should die today. When he flips scum we can go after Nico. Tada we win. It would be a series of leaning townways because of either play or process of elimination.

[NicolBolas]

I'm 100% sure that gandalf is not scum. I 100% guarantee that you all are looking at things the wrong way.

[mikeburnfire]

Espeonage, You

just

said that you were withholding your suspicions of Nicol until I pointed mine out.

Nicol, I don't believe you, probably because I think you're his scummate. How do you 100% guarantee we're wrong? No, I am genuinely curious as to how you cracked it. Do tell.

[mikeburnfire]

Please claim to be a Mason with Gandalf. This will confirm to me that you are liars, and I can proceed to stab you in the eye.