Mini 1039 Lost: Season One (Over)

[chesskid3]

I mean where you just copy the other person argument without adding anything, yeah (there's a word for it that's not bandwagoning, but I got strawmanning confused with it)

[vezokpiraka]

It's barning.
Anyway I will get to lurking.
I wonder what happens if I replace out?

[jasonT1981]

It's barning.
Anyway I will get to lurking.
I wonder what happens if I replace out?

I doubt anyone cares.

[dramonic]

If you help us catch the scum we can let you win <<

[vezokpiraka]

That is what I am telling you.
I help you lynch scum and before the end you help me.

[jasonT1981]

even if that means a possible mislynch on someone who could be town? Look, your exposed.... you cant furfil your win condition, accept it.

[vezokpiraka]

Lol.
Are you trying to get on my bad side jason?
I will play to my win con for all game.

[jasonT1981]

Look, I really don't care if I am your bad side or not. I will not help you achieve your win condition without solid proof Dekes is scum. Until that time I will not support a lynch on someone who could be town just so you can win.

[dramonic]

Jason, don't be an idiot.
We can compromise for now, but if we havent caught 2 scum before theorical LyLo we screw him over.
Otherwise, we let him lynch his little friend.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna, why are you willing to lynch HH? You only commented on one thing he said, and that was to ask a question.

I would think it was clear what HH, BC and Longing all have in common. They voted with Vezo’s fake claim with abandon. Mark my words there is at least one scum in that group of three. Guarenteed.

I claimed not because Fara asked me but because I had no way of forcing the dekes lynch.

You claimed because your poorly designed gambit blew up in your face.

Even if you wouldn't believe me as a name cop on day 1 I had the masterful plan of guessing chesskid's role as Hurley.

Before I decide whether to push strongly for your hanging or to perhaps give you a chance to get a win down the line I want this question answered Vezo –

Is your information that chess is Hurley based on role information also?

For the record your “I’ll make you pay if you don’t let me win” sthick isn’t a very positive way to approach Town that has you by the balls.

I'm outguessing the mod. I also believe Claire's probably gonna be town.

Don’t expect me to jump on board. Until we see some sort of scum flip I’m not ruling out the possibility that the scum is hidden in the Season 1 Losties protagonists (ala the first Harry Potter Mafia or Reck's recent It's Sunny Large game).

It would have been in scum;s best interests to ruin vezok claiming so this argument could be played out longer probably resulting in a nonscum lynch, from dekes/vezok.

I disagree. It would have been in scum’s best interests to get Dekes mislynched based on Vezo’s fake claim. Vezo then also leaves the game and scum get their regular NK. Three non-scum players down without a mis-Vig. You know, like HH, BC and Longing tried to do.

1. You assume they have fake claims. If they did, this would be the first game that i have been in that scum were given fake claims aside from just suggesting that they claim Spartacus.
2. Are you suggesting that a trio of like... Jack, Kate, and Hurley would be scum?
3. It's possible. However if scum did not have fake claims it could be useful.

1. Scum getting fake-claims isn’t exactly a rare happening. I’m going to assume it a possibility if they aren't directly imbedded in what would be thought to be traditional town roles.
2. The First Harry Potter Mafia and Reck's recent It's Sunny large game. Expecting that everything MUST follow your flavor expectations is short-sighted.
3. But it is useless (and very likely against Town’s best interests) if they do have fake claims? If so I’m not willing to throw scum a huge bone by outguessing the Mod on fake claims.

The person who brought up the idea of someone being a lyncher is (imo) just as scummy as someone who brings up the idea of a jester. It's a scum tactic to distract the town from a possible scum lynch.

I love how your ‘tell’ glosses over the fact that I was right

Personally. i think giving scum fake claims whether full or not makes for a lazy and poor scumteam.

Great. What does this have to do with anything?

Let’s look at the HackerHuck, BloodCovenant, and Longing bandwagon jumps and reasoning shall we –

Premise

– Scum were more likely to push the presumed mislynch of Dekes based on Vezo’s gambit because they knew he wasn’t scum. Vezo’s claim was readily discernable as fake – I made the correct call in my quick read-through. Scum either has Vezo as a fall guy when things go bad or can say "We didn't know he was a lyncher" when Vezo departs the game.

HackerHuck on the subject

–

There's no reason not to give your full claim right away. Stalling = scum.

UNVOTE: Seraday
VOTE: Dekes

Claims Dekes is scum for not full-claiming to Vezo’s obviously flawed claim.

We have a day-cop who is not counterclaimed and he has called you out as his target. Not only does he declare you to have a likely scum-name, you actually claim an entirely different name. I wasn't necessarily going to vote you if said your name really was Ethan, but since there's a discrepancy here, I'm quite certain that one of you is scum. Without a counterclaim and without knowing of a day-redirector or some other obscure role that would give him a bad result, I'm going to believe him over you.

Elaborates on how Vezo hasn’t been counterclaimed and is thus credible. Soft Role-fishing for a regular cop.

BTW, we need full claims (including flavour) from both Dekes and Vezok.

I'm not in favour of this so-called test. There's way too much room for manipulation and we're going to lose the townie even if we nail the scum.

More role-fishing on the off chance Dekes isn’t lynched.

Keep in mind the second sentence when compared with the following quote.

Dekes- I wasn't expecting a counterclaim, but I'm always willing to trade townie for scum if scum is willing to fake a claim like that.

In ISO 5 he isn’t willing to sacrifice a Townie to nail scum. Yet in ISO 7 he’s ‘always willing to trade townie for scum’. Cognitive dissonance? You are soaking in it.

I'm not happy about either of them avoiding the flavour claim, but unless Dekes comes up with something brilliant I can't see a reason not to lynch him.

What exactly brilliant should Dekes have had to come up with to avoid a clearly craptastic lynch? A great role-claim that makes it even easier for scum to bag PRs?

It doesn't make any sense given what we've heard so far.

For comparison to his very next post.

I've never played a game with a lyncher before, so I wasn't thinking about it at first and I discounted it because I don't think it's that common of a role.
Those reveals really took me for a spin, so I need to go back through these last few pages again. I'm not happy with Vezok's play here, but maybe it will help us find some scum.

How were you not thinking about it when you stated in ISO 6 that “it doesn’t make any sense given what we’ve heard so far”? That sentence quite clearly indicates you have assessed the information provided and don’t see a lyncher as a possibility. ISO 7 looks like backpeddling when his stance blows up in his face.

And Vezo’s play certainly has helped us find you.

BloodCovenant on the subject

–

Ademisk is scum for attacking sera/fara and not voting dekes.

Vote: Dekes

First mention of Dekes in his ISO at all. Note the attempt to smear Ademisk for not blindly following Vezo’s craptastic claim.

Whatever you say dekes. I follow a claim of you being ethan which makes sense as a scum role what else was i supposed to do, ignore it?

If you were Town you would have questioned the obv-fake play by Vezo. But instead you blindly accepted it without giving it one second of thought. Scumtastic.

You may call me opportunistic but it was no way opportunistic. I am, believe it or not rather good at keeping track of thresholds and if someone were to come in and vote quickly I would have unvoted to let the day evolve so that you had time to claim or rebuttal. No doubt I do agree that occasionally the third or fourth vote on a player can be opportunistic. However scum-bloodcovenent would blindly jump on a wagon as the late voter with no reasoning. As you may ask what my reasoning is... well.... it's that there was a claim that your role was of an "other." And they are bad in season 1. Therefore i felt confident in you as a lynch. Note that it doesn't make sense for Scum Vezo to so early give off a fake claim though. Because i would assume he knows that if you flip town, he will be ultimately hung tomorrow. -One of the reasons why I followed him.

Anyways. I'll stall the wagon for now.

BC has been called on his horrible wagon jump and tries to immediately distance himself from the wagon. Note the heaping spoonfuls of self-meta WIFOM doled out here regarding what ‘Scum-BC’ would do. If he had any conviction in his vote being called opportunistic shouldn’t have been enough to make him do a 180 degree turn.

Not related to the Vezo / Dekes matter but noteworth also – BC still has his vote parked on Ademisk. His initital reasoning is that Ademisk was scum for not voting Dekes. He hasn’t done ANYTHING in the way of questioning Ademisk. The remainder of his ISO is filled with pointless set-up speculation, defense of his scumtastic vote, and fluff regarding his feelings on fake-claims.

TheLonging on the subject

–

Also yeah this is an easy choice, and I don't mind supporting this. Dekes even ignored vezok

Weak reasoning as to why Vezo’s obv-fake claim was credible.

I don't think this game is vanillaless, but I agree this lyncher speculation is poor

Was the speculation poor because it was derailing an easy lynch, despite the fact that it was accurate?

My vote is where it stands because I don't believe dekes. It's also a good way to test vezok's claim. I'm starting to slightly doubt it, but it's not enough for me to move my vote.

I’ve covered this previously. Putting faith in testing Vezok’s fake-claim by lynching dekes is covered with all sorts of scum-motivation if dekes is Town.

I don't believe dekes is Claire for now because yes dekes, you did ignore vezok from what I've read largely up until he claimed. And I'm not opportunistic, I tend to believe PR's unless I have previously found them scummy. One of them are lying so I'm going to believe vezok.

Why should Dekes have addressed vezo’s statements that amounted to ‘dekes is scum because I say so’? The reasoning why his vote isn’t opportunistic is craptacular since he has no indication that Vezo is actually a PR.

In summary I think all three had horrible reasoning and scum motivation to try to push through a potential Claire mislynch. I doubt all three are Mafia but know at least 1, if not 2 are.

I think Hacker or Blood are the worst offenders and would like to see either of them hang first. Since Blood currently already has a couple of votes mine stays parked on him.

[vezokpiraka]

chesskid is obvious at being Hurley.
Like jenni is obvious as charlie.
And I am pretty sure Fara is Jack or scum.

[Faraseradayaphim]

I don't expect anyone to follow along in my outguessing the mod, but I've a few thoughts on the set-up I've already shared with. Time shall tell if they're right or not, but just because the mod says we can't outguess him doesn't make it true. I think Claire's more likely to be a fakeclaim than scum, but I don't think Reck would use another lyncher on scum, so soon.

I disagree. It would have been in scum’s best interests to get Dekes mislynched based on Vezo’s fake claim. Vezo then also leaves the game and scum get their regular NK. Three non-scum players down without a mis-Vig. You know, like HH, BC and Longing tried to do.

I don't really think you disagree? I meant vezok claiming lyncher - which would obviously remove the likelyhood of a dekes being lynched. If vezok hadn't claimed lyncher this back and forth would probably have gone on much longer, it was in scum's best interests to keep this charade going (under the assumption dekes is town)

[Faraseradayaphim]

Also Jenni not trying to get you to not enjoy the game, you can feel free to dedicate a paragraph swooning over eko's jesus stick at the end of each post, as long as you don't just focus on the show at the detriment of scumhunting.

[vezokpiraka]

oh and I got another.
Dram is likely Kate.
I wonder if I match all the players with the characters.

[chesskid3]

Nice post, Magna - Townie points from me.

A couple of comments, though.
First, I think TheLonging genuinely missed Dekes comment about the nameclaiming in general, since he didn't address it specifically at Vezok, and a bunch of people were talking about it at the time. I know I had to go back and reread to see who said what about the mass nameclaim.
Two, I was reading a game (don't remember which one) that BC was in (pretty sure he was a dead town in it), but Except for his one giant WIFOM post about Dekes, I see nothing outside his normal (and imo kind of VI-like) play.

I'll hop on a pressure wagon, but definitely not ready to lynch BC unless he doesn't respond well.

Also, @everybody else. Vezok's fishing is anti-town, just completely ignore it. Agreed?

[Ademisk]

Good summary post of their actions, Magna. If not soon, I'm sure it will come in handy later in the game.

I have 3 pages to go reread, but I've been wondering about this lyncher thing. Why would we ever go along with Vezoks need to lynch Dekes (if that is his true role)? I mean, if we let Vezok win, we pretty much lose 2 votes right then and there. And what would we gain? It would seem our best bet is to leave them both alive and use their votes and powers (if they have any) to our gain. And, if Vezok decides not to cooperate and turns anti-town, well, better lose 1 person than 2. Unless I'm missing something, now that Vezok revealed himself there is little chance that he will get what he wants. I'm not even sure why he went ahead and did that instead of pushing the wagon on Dekes, since a lynch through the previous claim had a much greater success rate than this.

[TheLonging]

First, I think TheLonging genuinely missed Dekes comment about the nameclaiming in general, since he didn't address it specifically at Vezok, and a bunch of people were talking about it at the time. I know I had to go back and reread to see who said what about the mass nameclaim.

This exactly.

More later, I'm all caught up but I need to go do something important. See ya tonight

[dramonic]

Vezok, could you explain to me why you're speculating about everyone's rolename?
It's escaping me.

Also, whoever said Claire is prolly a fakeclaim needs to hang.
let me check,,,

[dramonic]

Unvote
Vote: Serafara

hard.

[Dekes]

@vezo situation
Let's just hope for a vig out there.
Even when being offered a deal he's clearly not interested in helping town.

@Farasera
What make you believe Claire is a fake claim, when the Lyncher has confirmed me as being Claire?
But lynching them for this? What's up with that, dramonic?

I'd rather be interested in what BC, LL and HH have to say to the accusations brought up against them mostly by MoI. But it would be really helpful if people were additionaly voting them. It did help in getting a really decent post by jenni, didn't it?

[chesskid3]

VOTE: BloodCovenent

[Faraseradayaphim]

Woops, obviously Claire's not a fakeclaim if it says so in Vezok's role pm, complete brain fart on my part. I meant I don't think Claire's gonna be scum in this game, it requires such a bastardisation of all flavour.

Course Dram's vote's scummy because his reason for voting us is 100% garbage. Explain why it's scummy dram, or are you just posturing?

[BloodCovenent]

Ok. i'm gonna go back and Re-read the thread.

Ok... FaraSera is kind of scummy when he comes off with the policy lynch of Vezo. Yes. Vezo isn't that great to play with. But it makes for an easy and early scum motivated wagon.

Ademisk really doesn't like Fara because he started the policy vote on Vezo.

I feel that between Ademisk/FaraSera there is one scum.

Dram... Why these?

im gonna wait for dekes before voting

Please explain to me clearly why we are even voting him?

Dekes Response post the the claim.
-Really Half Ass
-Remotely scummy
-WHY? I'll tell you!
--He spends the majority of the post Rebutting to Vezo's claim and even finding holes in it. Yet when it comes down to the point he votes Me and stands that his vote on me/TheLonging are interchangable. That we were opportunistic. We didn't question sanity roles. Well... I'll be frank with you. i don't question cop-like sanity issues unless there has been a problem. Like if someone claimed a guilty on X and X flipped scum. That's when i begin to question it. Why do i think that questioning sanity in a NON-BASTARD game is scummy? It's because it distracts the town from the real issue. A known guilty

I like huck's line of questioning to Dekes at the very top op page 5. Because it is indeed scummy for dekes to have not full claimed

dekes.
-I generally trust cop claims, no matter when they appear


Chesskid
-When you made the post of Dekes wagon of when people got on, and when people got off... why was i the last person to be listed that got off the wagon? Sweet Poisoning the Well there.

really liking Huck in his response to dekes.

Chesskid assumes that the mafia have a QT - Kind of a scummy post

I'm still looking at TL, BC now with HH as backup, because I maintain the assumption, that rather town would doubt such a claim, especially after the holes of Vezo's story had been pointed out. Scum would be more stubborn with an easy mislynch right in front of them.

Here's your first problem. I follow claims. Yes there were holes, however they were from Vezo. You should have all fucking seen that coming since FaraSera's Policy vote/lynch post. Vezok is a poor player sometimes. that is part of the reason why I followed the claim "headfirst." If I were more stubborn for an easy mislynch, then I NEVER WOULD HAVE GOTTEN OFF OF THE FUCKING WAGON!

BloodCovenant on the subject

–

Whatever you say dekes. I follow a claim of you being ethan which makes sense as a scum role what else was i supposed to do, ignore it?

If you were Town you would have questioned the obv-fake play by Vezo. But instead you blindly accepted it without giving it one second of thought. Scumtastic.

Shut the Fuck up! You say that now because everything is unraveled already. Yea, so what you were the first person to suggest him being a lyncher. Great, more power to you. But because i didn't think of that, it makes me scum? Just because you "saw" the plan, doesn't make it obvious to everyone else from the very beginning.

You may call me opportunistic but it was no way opportunistic. I am, believe it or not rather good at keeping track of thresholds and if someone were to come in and vote quickly I would have unvoted to let the day evolve so that you had time to claim or rebuttal. No doubt I do agree that occasionally the third or fourth vote on a player can be opportunistic. However scum-bloodcovenent would blindly jump on a wagon as the late voter with no reasoning. As you may ask what my reasoning is... well.... it's that there was a claim that your role was of an "other." And they are bad in season 1. Therefore i felt confident in you as a lynch. Note that it doesn't make sense for Scum Vezo to so early give off a fake claim though. Because i would assume he knows that if you flip town, he will be ultimately hung tomorrow. -One of the reasons why I followed him.

Anyways. I'll stall the wagon for now.

BC has been called on his horrible wagon jump and tries to immediately distance himself from the wagon. Note the heaping spoonfuls of self-meta WIFOM doled out here regarding what ‘Scum-BC’ would do. If he had any conviction in his vote being called opportunistic shouldn’t have been enough to make him do a 180 degree turn.

Instead of calling it all WIFOM, why don't you go read my other games? You'll see how true it is.

The remainder of his ISO is filled with pointless set-up speculation, defense of his scumtastic vote, and fluff regarding his feelings on fake-claims.

Awesome, the Remainder of my iso is filled with pointless set up speculation. LAUGH OUT FUCKING LOUD!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

I posted very early on in the day about some set up speculation and roles and let it go after a few responses. But you come back and bring it up later in the day... why? YOU QUESTION ME ON IT. YOU RESPOND TO IT. AND NOW YOU SAY THAT ALL I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IS SET UP SPECULATION. GOOD FUCKING JOB!!!

I like it how Dekes and Magna are just riding eachothers coat-tails.

VOTE: BloodCovenent

you don't give me time to explain. I see how it is. >.>

Unvote:
Vote: ChessKid

-Poisoning the Well.
-Claims to give me time to respond before he votes. but doesn't.
-Notes that his vote is only a pressure vote on me.
-states that the scum have a QT
-Major dish of Oh My God You SUCK!

[Faraseradayaphim]

Unvote Vote Bloodcovenant

with that I'm off. Seraphim will be controlling the hydra for a while. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say he'll more than agree with my vote.

Bye guys, leaving you with love, Faraday.

(my v/la may not be as bad as first feared so i may be able to get a post a day)

[dramonic]

Course Dram's vote's scummy because his reason for voting us is 100% garbage. Explain why it's scummy dram, or are you just posturing?

The way you worded implied that you thought Dekes was scum <_<

Unvote

for now.