/Invitational 11: Pick your Poison 5 (Game Over)

[Rhinox]

I'm starting to agree with ooba. I could see vas/rhinox as scumbuddies

Awesome. So I'm town when VV flips town then?

[Rhinox]

by the way, is troll on V/LA or something? he hasn't posted since day began.

[Kmd4390]

I'm starting to agree with ooba. I could see vas/rhinox as scumbuddies

Awesome. So I'm town when VV flips town then?

Huh?

No...?

[Patrick]

Votecount

ekiM (2) -- Ellibereth, Rhinox
zoraster (1) -- Kmd4390
VasudeVa (3) -- Seraphim, ooba, SpyreX
ooba (2) -- Papa Zito, VasudeVa
DrippingGoofball (2) -- mith, ekiM
Seraphim (1) -- SaintKerrigan

Not voting: Everyone else
17 alive, 9 to lynch.

Deadline: 11th of September, 6 am GMT.

by the way, is troll on V/LA or something? he hasn't posted since day began.

I've already prodded him, and he's picked it up. If he doesn't post soon I'll seek a replacement.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm starting to agree with ooba. I could see vas/rhinox as scumbuddies

Because Rhinox is

defending

VV???

Ah, no. VV is the perfect bus accident victim. Can you imagine a scumbag wasting town cred to save VV-buddy? If VV is scum, and I am far from being convinced this is the case, Rhinox would be the last player I'd peg as his buddy.

[Rhinox]

/in before Rhinox/VV/DGB scumgroup claim.

Don't worry KMD, the ' ' was supposed to be interpretted as a /sarcasm tag.

Why doesn't anyone want to talk about ekiM?

[Kmd4390]

DGB, it's more the placement of Vas on Rhinox's "town" list as opposed to "everyone else" and then refusal to explain why he has Vas as "town" on the list.

-----------

Rhinox, I figured that, but still don't like it.

[Rhinox]

Rhinox, I figured that, but still don't like it.

OK, let me try again without the sarcasm: Suppose VV is lynched today and flipped town, then what would your opinion be?

[Seraphim]

Why doesn't anyone want to talk about ekiM?

Let's talk about reverse Mike. Why is he scum?

[Rhinox]

then refusal to explain why he has Vas as "town" on the list.

P.S. didn't I just explain that?

[Kmd4390]

Rhinox, I figured that, but still don't like it.

OK, let me try again without the sarcasm: Suppose VV is lynched today and flipped town, then what would your opinion be?

Opinion of you?

It wouldn't change. The only thing that would change is I'd know that you weren't scum specifically with Vas. So, basically that Vas was town. Which would be obvious with the flip and all.

then refusal to explain why he has Vas as "town" on the list.

P.S. didn't I just explain that?

Yeah. Not at first though:

Because if you're not scum, the only other option in this game is town.

Why do you ask if you don't think he's scummy?

[Rhinox]

Why doesn't anyone want to talk about ekiM?

Let's talk about reverse Mike. Why is he scum?

If Elmo had a big re-read to find new suspects last night I'd quite like to know who his other suspects are. Or was it just Amished?

TRANSLATED:

pssst... elmo, level with me, who's on your short list for tonight so we know if we should block you? *wink*

VOTE: ekiM

Your turn.

Rhinox, I figured that, but still don't like it.

OK, let me try again without the sarcasm: Suppose VV is lynched today and flipped town, then what would your opinion be?

Opinion of you?

It wouldn't change. The only thing that would change is I'd know that you weren't scum specifically with Vas. So, basically that Vas was town. Which would be obvious with the flip and all.

Any other opinions, say, regarding seraph or spyrex?

then refusal to explain why he has Vas as "town" on the list.

P.S. didn't I just explain that?

Yeah. Not at first though:

Because if you're not scum, the only other option in this game is town.

Why do you ask if you don't think he's scummy?

I thought plume might be fishing for role based information. Wanted to see where it went. Thought it was odd why plume asked specifically about VV, but not troll or DGB - 2 players I also haven't given any reasons for being on the town list.

[Seraphim]

Sorry, not seeing it. That isn't enough to convince he's scum as I could see that statement coming from town too. You just threw spin on it. Got any other evidence or is that your big "slip"?

[Rhinox]

Sorry, not seeing it. That isn't enough to convince he's scum as I could see that statement coming from town too. You just threw spin on it. Got any other evidence or is that your big "slip"?

Really? You could see that statement coming from town? Let me give you a little more. ekiM just got done making a big deal about Elmo being sorted out through night actions. Presumedly, that means ekiM doesn't want to lynch elmo, but he doesn't think elmo is town either. So, how does questioning elmo about who the other suspects were (besides amished) help town-ekiM lynch scum today? I can't think of a good reason, but I can think of a very good reason for scum-ekiM to try to determine elmo's vig list.

[Kmd4390]

Rhinox, id have to do a VCA TM to get any info from a vastownflip.

[Ellibereth]

Oh hai I'll look more into this later.
For now:
Gut + the just posting pre-prod thing + sheeping tajo.
Yeah.

VAS
Did you ever reply to tajo's stuff about your past town meta and this being all contradictory and stuff?

[Seraphim]

There are no scummy motivations in his play, only apparent scumminess, and buzzword cases (opportunistic, wagon hopping, hypocritical, etc.). No motivation for scum to act how he is acting, drawing plenty of attention to himself. Perfect mislynch bait. He doesn't have to be super pro-town to be obv-not-scum.

Yes, but there's also no scumhunting aspect to his play either. ooba has cited some meta where VV does, in fact, actually attempt to scumhunt, especially when a wagon had starting forming on him. He has no clue who his suspects are, besides what looks like an OMGUS vote on ooba(I have yet to see why he ever changed votes) and a vague, half-defined suspicion of zoraster.

[Seraphim]

Rhinox: also, there's a big gaping hole in your case. Not sure if you noticed it yet.

[Rhinox]

I'm listening...

[Papa Zito]

Because we're Town and he's not?

*virtual fist pump!*

Also, that votehop was lazy as hell.

...

No.

Let's step through this. Look at the night results. What do they tell you?

[mith]

The List(tm)

DrippingGoofball - See 843.

Seraphim - 692 is pretty scummy in retrospect. Not a fan of his case on VasudeVa. Thought his reaction to the Hoopla claim/hammer was off.

SpyreX - Similar to DGB's Kmd/Elmo reaction, 809 feels like bussing if Elmo is scum. Agree with "It looks to me as if SpyreX is searching for something to use to jump on my wagon at that particular time." from Hoopla. (His posting throughout also rubs me the wrong way, but I'm chalking some of that up to playstyle clash.)

Ellibereth - The Kmd vote day 1 seems inconsistent with 712. Too much "playstyle-spam" to get a solid read on otherwise.

zoraster - Hasn't posted enough, and spent most of the day tunneled on someone who was in no danger of being lynched.

Rhinox - Perhaps town points for pointing out the "if Elmo is the Vig and scum have an idea who he might shoot, they may not block him" issue with Elmo discussing suspects too freely. Otherwise, something doesn't feel right here, but I haven't put my finger on it yet.

Zorblag - Started off seeming pretty helpful strategy-wise (probably null-tell); mostly tunneled on Papa Zito day 1, and is now lukring/absent.

My Milked Eek/Saint Kerrigan - Haven't posted enough to get much of a read.

VasudeVa - Thought he was actually being pretty reasonable until he started playing to the VI accusations, but that makes him a bit suspect. Otherwise, the whole thing did give the feel of "easy lynch" shenanigans.

ekiM - Possible fishing aside, haven't found him particularly scummy.

ooba - 794 reads as genuine "I don't know what's going on here, but I'm going to discuss it anyway", rather than a plot to look uninformed. (The "ask Elmo to shoot himself" plan is stupid, but sadly people actually do read Pie's inane strategy posts and take them to heart.)

Plumegranate - Nothing jumping out as scummy so far.

Papa Zito - Leaning town.

Herodotus - Unwilling to lynch today, due to Hoopla breadcrumb reaction.

Elmo, Kmd4390 - Off the lynching table today.

---

Rhinox: Why is DGB on your town list?

[Elmo]

I actually think you would actually find literally any choice of shot suspicious unless they flipped scum, because either they'd contradict what I've already said or they'd be people you think are bad choices.

No. If you had shot KMD, DGB,or VV and claimed that shot there wouldn't have been any doubt (on the flipside I would have lynched the hell out of you with a Zor shot).

Kind of my point - shooting KMD or VV directly contradicts what I've previously said. I don't know why you'd lynch me if I shot Zoraster - I thought he was scummy, you didn't, so I must be mafia? Whatever.

Seraph, we can definitely talk about VV - for what it's worth, I believe you're town. SK's vote is kinda interesting. I don't think wagoning on Day 1 is interesting, and 'not scumhunting' doesn't really grab me since there wasn't much going, and it seems a lot of people fall under that - but those obviously change as the game goes on. The part about attacking people who suspected him passed me by, I'm afraid - I should probably go back and reread, but I, uh, haven't yet. Reiterating your reasoning might be good,

DGB's jump to suspect me earlier and then immediate jump to believing me is kinda weird. Hmm.

[Herodotus]

Plumegranate, DGB, ekim, and Elli all deserve some attention today as possible scum.

If Hero flips scum, on of the above players is his buddy, and it ain't me.

If I flip scum, all of my buddies are on that list. Also, the earth is flat.

I forgot to mention Papa Zito and Seraphim in that list. Right now, I think one of those six people should be the D2 lynch. I'll have preferences later. I also forgot SaintK was in this game, but I'm willing to wait on that playerslot since I don't have a read. (Saintkerrigan is MME, right?

@mod: could you update the first post regarding replacements? Thanks.

)

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB's jump to suspect me earlier and then immediate jump to believing me is kinda weird. Hmm.

The jump to suspect you was because I picked up that KMD had rolebased info, so I rolled with it. As for believing your story, yeah, that IS weird

[Rhinox]

Rhinox: Why is DGB on your town list?

One of the few players in the game with some actual seemingly genuine scum hunting. Making good accusations and asking good questions. She gives me a similar feel in this game as she did as town in teleportation mafia (game 1).