/in-vitational Game 8 - Nito City (over) after 1015


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Post Post #450 (ISO) » Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:52 am

Post by Incognito »

Vote Count #1 of Day 3


Zajnet (1) <-~ Jack
Erg0 (1) <-~ Sotty7

Not voting (7) <-~ Erg0, farside22, Locke Lamora, MagnaofIllusion, Porochaz, Sando, Zajnet

9 living; 5 will do it.


Deadline:
Tuesday, September 14th at 11 A.M. EST
[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
patrickgower2006 (8:12:07 PM): like dish water
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Post Post #451 (ISO) » Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:05 am

Post by Erg0 »

Hey folks, just checking in to get this into my post list. First thing I'm doing is checking links to Jason, that'll be incoming sometime today.

I do have a question from my initial read:
@Jack: is your masonizer claim officially withdrawn at this stage? You seemed to pretty much drop your suspicion on MoI at the end of day 2, which I assume means you didn't really try (and fail) to recruit him.
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Post Post #452 (ISO) » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:53 pm

Post by Porochaz »

farside22 wrote:I need to look at the wagon's from day 1 and day 2.
Jack's play is starting to remind me of PYP2 where he was scum.
@Poro: Where are you in this game? What views do you have on those who voted for Jason

Zajant: input pronto!
Im not sure yet, 4 out of the 5 I would have at the bottom of my town to scum list. However I liked the wagon (easy for me to say that now, I know). I would say I would reread, but my reads are so marginal anyway...
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Post Post #453 (ISO) » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:59 pm

Post by Jack »

Porochaz wrote: Im not sure yet, 4 out of the 5 I would have at the bottom of my town to scum list. However I liked the wagon (easy for me to say that now, I know). I would say I would reread, but my reads are so marginal anyway...
Just vote for zajnet.
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Post Post #454 (ISO) » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:03 pm

Post by Porochaz »

Sando wrote:Accusing me of boilerplate scumtells Vollkan... Cute.
Reading through the thread I really really hate this post.
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Post Post #455 (ISO) » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:26 pm

Post by Porochaz »

Incognito wrote:
Incognito's Final Vote Count of Day 2 wrote:
jasonT1981 (6) <-~ Sotty7, MagnaofIllusion, farside22, vollkan, Zajnet, jasonT1981

Jack (1) <-~ Ythan
vollkan (1) <-~ Sando
Zajnet (1) <-~ Jack

Not voting (2) <-~ Locke Lamora, Porochaz
I just want this to refer to who is in this game

Lets start with sotty, when I saw vollkans case against her in day 2, I didn't really feel it. I didn't like her initially during day 1 but thinking town now.
MOI is one of the few I can't get a read on this game.
farside I have stated my thoughts on already, Im sure she's scum, there is something way off about her posts and well... Ive said what Ive said
vollkan - I found town right from the off but as he's dead now, it doesn't really matter
zajnet - hasnt posted really, when he has, he hasn't posted that well. Sorta like myself.
Ythan - didn't post enough, Erg0 will though Im sure
Jack - Im starting to warm to Jacks posting style, I wouldnt believe a claim from him ever but he's playing consistently enough.
Sando - from his response to vollkans points against him (and I dont just mean the post quoted above) to his reaction against me and his general posting style thus far.
vote sando


farside is 2nd, zaj 3rd
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Post Post #456 (ISO) » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:45 pm

Post by farside22 »

Sotty: Why the vote on Ero? Is that from the other 2 flakers who barely said a word?
What about zajant or even Sando?
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Post Post #457 (ISO) » Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:54 pm

Post by Erg0 »

Man, I'd forgotten how long these can take. For those who are unfamiliar with my method (which is everyone, I guess), I like to do a formal post-mortem analysis after the first dead scum. Part 1 is Zach/justin's posts about other players, part 2 will be other players' posts about Zach/justin. Don't worry, not every post from me will be a wall of text.

Zach/justin's relationships with other players fall into 3 broad categories:

Lots o' interaction


Sotty7: (vollkan's result more or less confirms Sotty, but it's good to have her as a control for my Z/j reads) Zach and justin both spent a lot of time on meta arguments with Sotty, and both accused her of being scum. I don't get a distancing vibe from any of this, it seems like Sotty is raising the kind of points that Z/j really can't mount much of a defence against. I don't think I've ever seen two scum go at each other so hard over meta for such a long period of time. Townie is giving town read, which is good.

Jack: Very odd up and down relationship. Zack thought Jack was town for no obvious reason. justin started off thinking Jack was scum based on some fairly obvious points in his game summary, votes him when pushed to do so, then suddenly realises he must be town based on meta that Jack himself points out. This and the end of day "hammer without a claim" thing feel really forced. Warrants further inquiry.

Some interaction


Porochaz: Zach votes him early for following Sotty, but moves to MoI in 9 without much follow-up. Says in 14 that he still wants him lynched for the same reasons, little danger of that actually happening. justin FoSes him in his roundup post, but has no real suspicions when asked. Zach's suspicion of him later on day 1 seems somewhat unwarranted and irrelevant, which makes me wonder why he brings it up. Possible soft bus, seems kind of lazy though.

MagnaofIllusion: Zach's 9 looks a bit like a chainsaw on MoI for his suspicion of Charlie and Locke, seems to be reaching a bit in 11 and 14. Pulls out the old "I think you're scum with that guy, so I'm going to switch to him [because he's easier to lynch]" trick in 16. justin mentions MoI a few times in his summary, but it seems to be more for consistency's sake than anything as he never talks about him again until answering a question (and ignoring another) in 31. Doesn't seem focused enough to be a bus.

Zajnet: Interesting that Zach and justin both used him as their late day second suspect. justin doesn't think he's scummy at the start of day 2, but comes around to lurker-hunting him by the end of it. justin's 25 could be late distancing, especially as he pushes back towards vollkan when MoI challenges him on it. Reading Zaj's iso will be interesting.

Not much interaction


farside22: Zach calls her town very early, only other notable interaction is justin's accusation of lying about Zach's activity elsewhere. I'll have a look at that when I get a chance.

Locke Lamora: Possible chainsaw defence by Zach in 9, since Charlie flipped town. Otherwise, nothing notable.

Sando: Really nothing other than Zach's very early comment on Jack's rolefish accusation.

Part 2 should be up tomorrow, along with current scumminess rankings.
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Post Post #458 (ISO) » Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:59 pm

Post by Zajnet »

I was planning on posting lots of content tonight but I'm really tired. Hopefully I'll get around to it tomorrow, but I have HW and stuff.
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Post Post #459 (ISO) » Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:59 pm

Post by Jack »

Erg0 wrote:justin justin.justin justin justin justin justin justin justin justin justin
I'm really stumped about what to make of this at the moment.
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Post Post #460 (ISO) » Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:12 pm

Post by Jack »

Jack: Very odd up and down relationship. Zack thought Jack was town for no obvious reason. justin started off thinking Jack was scum based on some fairly obvious points in his game summary, votes him when pushed to do so, then suddenly realises he must be town based on meta that Jack himself points out. This and the end of day "hammer without a claim" thing feel really forced. Warrants further inquiry.
Maybe this is just standing out to me because it's personal, but the quality of this summary is terrible lacking. I don't see how you do a summary and say nothing about iso 54-55, and "warrants further inquiry" is wishy washy. Combined with typing in the wrong name 11 times it doesn't seem like there was genuine scumhunting going on in that post.

I'm unsure about whether scum would get their buddies name wrong, but ergo did just replace in. If zajnet is scum too, then this slot under ythan also mistakenly described me as the person who hammered charlie instead of their scumbuddy...bizarre.
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Post Post #461 (ISO) » Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:28 pm

Post by Erg0 »

Jack wrote:
Erg0 wrote:justin justin.justin justin justin justin justin justin justin justin justin
I'm really stumped about what to make of this at the moment.
Shit. I actually changed a couple of Jasons to Justins because I thought I was getting it wrong in the other direction. Clearly my head is not on straight today.

If you read the intro, I haven't done analysis of your posts yet. The above is purely based on
justin
jason's posts, and is only half the story. Hence, no conclusions yet.
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Post Post #462 (ISO) » Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:34 pm

Post by Jack »

You're right, I missed that part of the intro. Weird way of doing a reread.

But anyway, I said to myself "it has to be ergo because the only other option for zaj's partner is porochaz and he seems town" but I checked the playerlist and saw sando, reread in ISO, sando is scum. Very much so.

Will lay it out tomorrow.
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Post Post #463 (ISO) » Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:36 pm

Post by Jack »

Sando wrote: Also, this whole 'hammer person is scum' is old, the hammer was ~6 hours pre-deadline, and no other lynch was possible, it needed to happen. .
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Post Post #464 (ISO) » Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:46 pm

Post by Jack »

hmm sando has visited but not posted.

One or two things strike me as just plain weird in iso so atm I'm inclined to say zajnet is still the lynch. But I will go over it and think about it.
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Post Post #465 (ISO) » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:12 pm

Post by Locke Lamora »

Right, my thoughts having caught up on everything:

Really dislike Jack right now. Looking back he includes Sotty, vollkan and myself as targets, all of whom are town (from my perspective obviously). I think his post justifying his LaL vote on Ythan is weak and seems out of place with his earlier gut-read playstyle. Generally he seems more unsure now than he did earlier when people was saying 'oh it's just Jack's meta' so I'd like to hear what those who thought he was playing to his meta earlier think about him now.

Zajnet is still awful. Call him a weak target if you like, Sotty, but you have to consider what he's actually done in this game: deadline hammered Charlie, voted for Jason with little reasoning and made a lot of excuses about why he hasn't contributed. Surely you have to recognise that it's got to the stage where he's so consistently avoided stating an opinion or contributing anything at all that it amounts to deliberately preventing us from getting a read on him.

The CDB/Ythan/Erg0 slot is similarly devoid of any useful content. That recent catch-up post by Erg0 is the first time any genuine analysis has come out of that slot. Would like to see a lot more firm opinions on who's scummy in his next post as I feel like a lot of his conclusions are quite ambiguous.

Sando I think blatantly damns himself by not mentioning Zach or Jason for the entire game, as far as I can see, despite the fact that Jason was a major topic of discussion yesterday and Zach's scumminess was being shouted by Sotty for all of D1. Incidentally, I just finished modding Mini 984 with Sando as scum and he was very similar there in barely mentioning his scumpartners; I think he pushed some slight suspicion on Poro and that was about it.

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Post Post #466 (ISO) » Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:17 pm

Post by Sando »

Jack wrote:hmm sando has visited but not posted.

One or two things strike me as just plain weird in iso so atm I'm inclined to say zajnet is still the lynch. But I will go over it and think about it.
I logged on just 5 minutes ago... well probably like 20 by the time I'm done, but yeah. I quickly checked the topic before work this morning, but didn't have time to post then.

Anyways, fair cop from Locke and Poro (not including Poro's quote, I'll get to that) and I pretty much expected it since I pushed back against the CC and didn't really push the wagon/claim on Jason. Not much I can say about my play prior to the claim, but I tend to vacillate around things like CCs etc as both scum and town.

Having expected it, I tend to want to look at those bringing it up first thing, as I think those are the most likely to have thought long and hard overnight about who they're going to go after. This is particularly pertinent considering it's Poro and Locke, Locke mentioned that he modded me as scum, and mentioned that I was buddies with Poro.

For starters, unless they think I was setting up a meta by lying in the scum QTopic, they know I'm perfectly happy to hammer a partner, and could deduce that I'm fairly inclined towards bussing in general, considering I strongly recommended to Poro that be buss me.

For Locke, you might notice that in the Qtopic I specifically stated that I was going to be deliberately playing non-commitaly to avoid confirming any town etc as I assumed I'd be the lynch target:
Sando wrote:Parama is going to go hard on me, you guys should be ready to bus if required. ICE should be a legit lynch target at some point, I'm going to avoid attacking anyone we legitimately think will be a lynch target later to avoid any confirmation of towniness if I'm lynched.
Poro's case is particularly general, can't really answer much. In terms of the quote about 'boilerplate scumtells', my response was a sarcastic response because he had literally just gotten me lynched, as town, in another game using that exact same argument that I was simply using boilerplate scumtells and that was scummy. Since I covered this in a later post, I'm not sure what Poro is on about.

FYI, after that game, I got the very distinct impression that Poro is very anti-bussing.
Poro wrote:farside I have stated my thoughts on already, Im sure she's scum
Poro wrote:Sando - from his response to vollkans points against him (and I dont just mean the post quoted above) to his reaction against me and his general posting style thus far. vote sando

farside is 2nd, zaj 3rd
This doesn't make sense, you're 'sure' farside is scum, yet generally don't like my posting style, and haven't actually posted a real case?

Yeah right,
Vote: Poro
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Post Post #467 (ISO) » Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:41 am

Post by Sotty7 »

farside22 Post 456 wrote:Sotty: Why the vote on Ero? Is that from the other 2 flakers who barely said a word?
What about zajant or even Sando?
I'm pretty convinced the Ythan slot is scum with how he replaced in and then left pretty much right away. He is still playing in other games across the site and posting up a storm. His lack of activity in this thread is scummy. I'm waiting to see what Ero comes up with, but I am pretty convinced at this point.

I could go for a Sando vote. My working scum team is Ero and Sando right now. Outside chances of Locke and Zajent being one of the two.

I'm just waking up and haven't read everything in great detail on this page yet. I'll be back with more later.
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Post Post #468 (ISO) » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:42 am

Post by farside22 »

Well just looked at Ythan. I know he had internet problems around the 24th but Sotty is absolutely correct about his spamming around the site.
Times he posted here were 6 total with no real input and days he didn't post he was online elsewhere.

I have this deep gut feeling about Sando I can't shake his game play really reminds me of the game he was scum.
I need to do an analysis on him and Jack and Poro.
I won't be able to get to this all before my V/LA but I will have something before my trip for sure.
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Post Post #469 (ISO) » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:55 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Since we have a flipped scum I’m going to do a VC analysis for Day 1 and Day 2. I find it tends to clear my head when I’m focused on prior day suspects. Proven scum show up as red. Proven Town show us as blue. I don’t color myself blue because althought I am proven to myself I’m not proven Town for all players so don’t ask why I'm in black. All replaced players have the current slot holder in all vote-counts for ease of readability.

Spoiler: Day 1
Vote Count #1 of Day 1

Erg0 (1) <-~ Zajnet
Locke Lamora (1) <-~ farside22
Porochaz (1) <-~
Charlie

Sotty7 (2) <-~ Locke Lamora,
JasonT1981

Charlie
(1) <-~ Erg0
MagnaofIllusion (1) <-~
vollkan

JasonT1981
(1) <-~ Sotty7
Zajnet (2) <-~ MagnaofIllusion, Porochaz
vollkan
(1) <-~ Jack
Jack (1) <-~ Sando

Vote Count #2 of Day 1

Erg0 (1) <-~ Zajnet
Porochaz (2) <-~ farside22,
JasonT1981

Sotty7 (3) <-~ Locke Lamora, Porochaz, Jack
Charlie
(1) <-~ Erg0
MagnaofIllusion (1) <-~
vollkan

Zajnet (1) <-~ MagnaofIllusion
Jack (2) <-~ Sando, Sotty7
Sando (1) <-~
Charlie


Vote Count #3 of Day 1

Erg0 (1) <-~ Zajnet
Porochaz (2) <-~ farside22,
JasonT1981

Sotty7 (2) <-~ Locke Lamora, Porochaz
Charlie
(1) <-~ Erg0
MagnaofIllusion (1) <-~
vollkan

Zajnet (1) <-~ MagnaofIllusion
Jack (2) <-~ Sando, Sotty7
Sando (1) <-~
Charlie

Locke Lamora (1) <-~ Jack

Vote Count #4 of Day 1

Sotty7 (2) <-~ Porochaz,
Charlie

Charlie
(3) <-~ Erg0, MagnaofIllusion, Sotty7
MagnaofIllusion (5) <-~
vollkan,
Jack,
JasonT1981
, Zajnet, farside22
Jack (1) <-~ Sando
Zajnet (1) <-~ Locke Lamora

Vote Count #5 of Day 1

Sotty7 (1) <-~ Porochaz
Charlie
(4) <-~ Erg0, MagnaofIllusion, Sotty7, farside22
MagnaofIllusion (4) <-~ Jack,
JasonT1981
, Zajnet,
Charlie

Jack (2) <-~ Sando,
vollkan

Zajnet (1) <-~ Locke Lamora

Vote Count #6 of Day 1

Charlie
(5) <-~ Erg0, MagnaofIllusion, Sotty7, farside22, Sando
MagnaofIllusion (4) <-~ Jack,
JasonT1981
, Zajnet,
Charlie

Jack (1) <-~
vollkan

Zajnet (1) <-~ Locke Lamora

Not voting (1) <-~ Porochaz

Vote Count #7 of Day 1

Charlie
(5) <-~ Erg0, MagnaofIllusion, Sotty7, farside22, Sando
MagnaofIllusion (4) <-~ Jack,
JasonT1981
, Zajnet,
Charlie

Jack (1) <-~
vollkan

Zajnet (2) <-~ Locke Lamora, Porochaz

Vote Count #8 of Day 1

Charlie
(4) <-~ Erg0, MagnaofIllusion, farside22, Sando
MagnaofIllusion (3) <-~ Jack, Zajnet,
Charlie

Jack (1) <-~ vollkan
Zajnet (2) <-~ Porochaz,
JasonT1981

JasonT1981
(2) <-~ Sotty7, Locke Lamora

Vote Count #9 of Day 1

Charlie
(6) <-~ Erg0, MagnaofIllusion, farside22, Sando,
jasonT1981
, Sotty7
MagnaofIllusion (3) <-~ Zajnet,
Charlie
, Jack
Jack (1) <-~
vollkan

Zajnet (2) <-~ Porochaz, Locke Lamora

Incognito's Final Vote Count of Day 1

Charlie
(7) <-~ Erg0, MagnaofIllusion, farside22, Sando,
jasonT1981
, Sotty7, Zajnet
MagnaofIllusion (2) <-~
Charlie
, Jack
Jack (1) <-~
vollkan

Zajnet (2) <-~ Porochaz, Locke Lamora


Spoiler: Day 2
Vote Count #1 of Day 2

Zajnet (2) <-~ farside22, Jack

Not voting (9) <-~ Erg0,
vollkan
, Locke Lamora, MagnaofIllusion, Porochaz, Sando, Sotty7,
jasonT1981
, Zajnet

Vote Count #2 of Day 2

Zajnet (1) <-~ farside22
jasonT1981
(1) <-~ Sotty7
Jack (1) <-~ Erg0
MagnaofIllusion (1) <-~ Jack

Not voting (7) <-~
vollkan
, Locke Lamora, MagnaofIllusion, Porochaz, Sando,
jasonT1981
, Zajnet

Vote Count #3 of Day 2

Zajnet (1) <-~ farside22
jasonT1981
(2) <-~ Sotty7, MagnaofIllusion
Jack (2) <-~ Erg0, Sando
MagnaofIllusion (1) <-~ Jack

Not voting (5) <-~
vollkan,
Locke Lamora, Porochaz, Zajnet,
jasonT1981


Vote Count #4 of Day 2

jasonT1981
(3) <-~ Sotty7, MagnaofIllusion, farside22
Jack (2) <-~ Erg0, Sando
Erg0 (1) <-~ Jack

Not voting (5) <-~
vollkan
, Locke Lamora, Porochaz, Zajnet,
jasonT1981


Vote Count #5 of Day 2

jasonT1981
(4) <-~ Sotty7, MagnaofIllusion, farside22,
vollkan

Jack (1) <-~ Erg0
Erg0 (1) <-~ Jack
vollkan
(2) <-~ Sando,
jasonT1981


Not voting (3) <-~ Locke Lamora, Porochaz, Zajnet

Vote Count #6 of Day 2

jasonT1981
(5) <-~ Sotty7, MagnaofIllusion, farside22,
vollkan
, Jack
Jack (1) <-~ Erg0
vollkan
(2) <-~ Sando,
jasonT1981


Not voting (3) <-~ Locke Lamora, Porochaz, Zajnet

Incognito's Final Vote Count of Day 2

jasonT1981
(6) <-~ Sotty7, MagnaofIllusion, farside22,
vollkan
, Zajnet,
jasonT1981

Jack (1) <-~ Erg0
vollkan
(1) <-~ Sando
Zajnet (1) <-~ Jack

Not voting (2) <-~ Locke Lamora, Porochaz


This is the raw data, hidden in spoiler text for those adverse to large posts. Analysis follows.
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Post Post #470 (ISO) » Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:11 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

EBWOP - I failed to color Sotty7 blue in the mass analysis. This is an error. vollkan's flip as Weak Doc confirms Sotty7 is Town.
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Post Post #471 (ISO) » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:01 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In looking at the VC I’m going to focus my analysis on the following counts / series of counts. When I’m referring to unknown players in the analysis I’m specifically referring to players with alignments unknown to me.

Day 1:


The dueling Charlie versus MoI Wagons –


Charlie
(3) <-~ Erg0, MagnaofIllusion,
Sotty7

MagnaofIllusion (5) <-~
vollkan
, Jack,
JasonT1981
, Zajnet, farside22

Charlie
(4) <-~ Erg0, MagnaofIllusion,
Sotty7
, farside22
MagnaofIllusion (4) <-~ Jack,
JasonT1981
, Zajnet,
Charlie


Charlie
(5) <-~ Erg0, MagnaofIllusion,
Sotty7
, farside22, Sando
MagnaofIllusion (4) <-~ Jack,
JasonT1981
, Zajnet,
Charlie


Charlie
(4) <-~ Erg0, MagnaofIllusion, farside22, Sando
MagnaofIllusion (3) <-~ Jack, Zajnet,
Charlie


Prior to the first count Charlie and I were both a 1 vote – Erg0 for Charlie and vollkan for me. From a grouping standpoint I find it most likely that scum probably committed at most 2 members to each wagon (Charlie and mine) at the wagons peak. All three appearing on the wagon early in the day would be suicide based on the kind of analysis I am doing now.

Unknown players on my peak wagon – jack, Zaj, farside
Unknown players on Charlie’s peak wagon - Erg0, farside, Sando

I don’t think there is more than 1 scum in the set of jack, Zaj and farside. We know Jason was on my wagon during the two peaks.

I think there is at most two scum in the set of Ergo, farside, Sando.

Charlie’s final wagon –


Charlie
(7) <-~ Erg0, MagnaofIllusion, farside22, Sando,
jasonT1981
, S
otty7
, Zajnet
MagnaofIllusion (2) <-~
Charlie
, Jack
Jack (1) <-~
vollkan

Zajnet (2) <-~ Porochaz, Locke Lamora


If there are three scum on this wagon I’d be surprised. That only makes sense if Zajnet is scum. If Zajnet is not scum one scum is more than likely off the Charlie wagon.

Unknown players on final wagon – Erg0, farside22, Sando, Zajnet
Unknown players off the final wagon – Jack, Porochaz, Locke

Day 2:

The abbreviated nature of the day and the fact that we only have one major wagon leads me to focus on the major wagon and any budding counterwagons.

Jason’s Wagon as it built –

jasonT1981
(1) <-~
Sotty7

jasonT1981
(2) <-~
Sotty7
, MagnaofIllusion
jasonT1981
(3) <-~
Sotty7
, MagnaofIllusion, farside22
jasonT1981
(4) <-~ S
otty7
, MagnaofIllusion, farside22,
vollkan

jasonT1981
(5) <-~
Sotty7,
MagnaofIllusion, farside22,
vollkan
, Jack
jasonT1981
(6) <-~
Sotty7
, MagnaofIllusion, farside22,
vollkan
, Zajnet,
jasonT1981


Those not on Jason at lynch -

Jack (1) <-~ Erg0
vollkan (1) <-~ Sando
Zajnet (1) <-~ Jack

Not voting (2) <-~ Locke Lamora, Porochaz

Jason’s self-vote tells me that he was trying to protect at least one of his scum partners. Otherwise he wouldn’t have self-hammered. Also the wagon was very consistent through the day with only Jack getting off right before the self-hammer.

If Zajnet is scum then farside is very unlikely to be. This further strenghthe
If Zajnet is Town the likelihood that farside is scum rises slightly. It is possible that Jason was protecting both partners so it is only a marginal rise.

There is at least 1 scum in the set of Erg0, Sando, Jack, Locke and Poro.

Budding counterwagons –

Zajnet (2) <-~ farside22, Jack

Jack (2) <-~ Erg0, Sando

vollkan
(2) <-~ Sando,
jasonT1981


These are the only other players with more than 1 vote during the day’s VCs. Based on the fact that Sando was on two separate budding wagons while Jason’s wagon built he is one I see as most likely trying to divert from Jason.

Farside, jack and Erg0 all still bear watching.

Other factors for both Days – Jason’s vote movement –


On Day 1 Jason first appears on Sotty and later switches to Poro. He then parks on my wagon until Charlie’s solidifies itself as the stronger wagon. He then moves Zaj before hoping onto Charlie in 6th position.

On Day 2 he holds off voting for a significant amount of time before voting for vollkan. His vote stays here until he self-hammers.

I’m looking at his Poro and Zajnet votes as most likely votes meant to skew a VC analysis. He wasn’t under voting pressure Day 1 and thus was free to make bussing votes. I especially think this is true because he didn’t return to either of those players Day 2 but went for a now-confirmed Town with his vote.

Going into the day I was most focused on Jack and Zajnet as likely scum based on Jack’s Day 1 interaction with Jason and Zajnet’s horrible voting both days and his lack of contributions.

Based on the VC analysis I have the following thoughts –

Zajnet’s position on the wagons combined with other factors (Jason’s self hammering, etc) makes him a lynch-pin in determining scum via this style of analysis. I don’t think he can be scum with farside or Jack for the reasons mentioned above. If he is scum it goes a long way to clearing two more players and making a POE endgame viable. Also, Jason’s vote for him before joining the Charlie wagon at the end of Day 1 looks like distancing.

farside appears in more suspicious places based on my analysis than I would have expected given my read. I’ll have to re-ISO her with a fresh set of eyes.

Erg0 and Sando also appear multiple places of suspicion during both days. I’m going to review Sando’s ISO to look closely at his day 2 contributions. Erg0 will be assessed as he goes with my thumb on the scum side of the ledger as CDB / Ythan’s total lack of contribution to the game strike me as scumtastic.

VOTE: Zajnetfor the moment as the VC analysis doesn’t lessen my suspicion of his play.
"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"

Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.
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Sotty7
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Post Post #472 (ISO) » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:59 am

Post by Sotty7 »

MagnaofIllusion Post 471 wrote:Jason’s self-vote tells me that he was trying to protect at least one of his scum partners. Otherwise he wouldn’t have self-hammered. Also the wagon was very consistent through the day with only Jack getting off right before the self-hammer.
This is what makes me suspect Locke because he hammers right after you ask no one to hammer before Locke gets a chance to post. Locke also happens to be on the list of people that Jason failed to mention in his catch up post. I have seen him do these posts twice as scum each time he left off a buddy. Willing to bet he has done it again this time.

For reference


The Wire: He didn't mention his buddy CDB

Zach town II: Doesn't mention his buddy DRK.

I'm going to say that there is at least one of his buddies in the group he didn't mention in this games catch up post: Locke, Sando or Zajnet.

In fact I am going to put my money where my mouth is with an

Unvote, Vote: Sando


Tone, stances and lack of any viable town tells. I hadn't realized that he didn't mention Zach/Jason much of all. (Only mentioned Zach once, Jason never until he was dead.)
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Post Post #473 (ISO) » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:02 am

Post by Erg0 »

Second part of my summary is delayed til tomorrow, ran out of time at about post 300 today.

Regarding CDb and Ythan's contributions (or lack thereof): obviously I can't explain their inactivity, but I have the impression that Ythan never really caught up to the game after replacing in. I've never played with him or read any of his games, so I have no idea how this fits with his usual play. I will say that dropping this game while remaining active elsewhere is pretty poor form, though.
"You were doing well until everyone died."
V/LA most weekends.
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Post Post #474 (ISO) » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:15 am

Post by farside22 »

I just read Sando in this game and he is pretty much looking like lazy scum.
He attacked mostly Jack on day 1 with little comment towards anyone else and then votes for charlie.
Today he has gone back to day 2 more Jack is scum then votes for Volkan in what equates to an OMGUS vote
Today is now Porochaz who he said next to nothing about to what again equates to OMGUS vote.
He has done little to no scum hunting sticking with Jack and only attacking anyone who says things against him.

I looked into his past games of recent where boy all I found was him as scum and he comes off as rude, he scum hunts but attacks people pretty fiercely.

example:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 34&start=0

@Sando: Do you have an link to a game you were town that is not currently still ongoing?

I would also say compared to the link above Sando is close to actively lurking. I notice he's not in any other game and seems to be keeping a low profile here.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.

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