NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[danakillsu]

Strange that Wickedest will vote almost anyone except Wraith.
He's definitely someone to look at as a scumbuddy if Wraith flips scum as expected.

[Robbnva]

@wicked, in my experience when a bandwagon is formed on a townie, the next day people start looking at who was on that bandwagon, what better way to avoid suspicion than to stay clear of it all together

Mafia wants to do multiple things.

1. Avoid suspicion at all costs
2. Stay active in scum hunting to blend in
3. Not be anywhere near a quick lynch

as for me being suspected as scum, meh - happens every game I have ever played so I'm used to it.
But the fact you have a strong town read on Wraith is quite funny, you are either naieve as hell or just have an off day on your scumdar

[Wickedestjr]

dana, please give examples where I give you the impression that I'm willing to vote anybody but Wraith.
Robbnva, if you find my town read of Wraith so awkward, then why do you not suspect him at all?

[flinter]

I think it is highly unlikely that Nhammen and UA are scum together

Why?

just follow the link UA used small text, Nhammen found this. As far as I know, this is almost always prohibited: and setting your buddy up for problems with the mod (if you have the choice) is hardly something scum would do.

215 by wicked convinces me again. He is right in calling mysterio opportunistic. VOTE: mysterio

Do you think Mysterio is the only opportunistic player in the game?

no. Hiphop has been opportunistic, however he doesn't hide it. Wraith has had its opportunism. Several people went on the Dana wagon, which might qualify as opportunistic, however there were good reasons for that. The same with the Frank lynch: I can totally see people voting as they did as town. Mysterio's was early game. His abusing the "lets not lynch too quickly" to look town, but hopping on the wagon afterwards is malevolent. Which is why I vote him, in stead of another.

Flinter has voted for mysterio as anticipated.

You've read my mind.

Vote: Flinter

I get the impression that either she is very careless about her vote or is bussing her buddy Mysterio:

1. She catches up and brings up lots of points against dana and Xite, yet votes Mysterio for one point that I brought up. That seems kind of strange to me.
2. After voting Mysterio it seemed like she didn't care about what he said and wanted to watch me argue with him instead, because she completely ignored his defense.
3. I pointed out point #2 in the thread, and she said that it was because she wasn't paying attention to the person who she was voting for which looks very opportunistic. In addition, she said that Mysterio hadn't defended against the opportunism point yet doesn't directly say anything to Mysterio. It is completely obvious that she doesn't care about her vote on him.

I'm sorry? Dana is actually one of my town reads (it is a gutread, so I know it isn't worth anything here). I suspect bunny who was wishy washy about Dana. This while logically, bunny's arguments made sense.

And I "ignored" Mysterio's defense, because it in no way adressed his change from "lets stay calm!" to "BANDWAGON!!!". Which is why my vote has been on him the rest of day 1. A revote was far from surprising.

[Robbnva]

dana, please give examples where I give you the impression that I'm willing to vote anybody but Wraith.
Robbnva, if you find my town read of Wraith so awkward, then why do you not suspect him at all?

I do suspect him which is why my vote is on him, so now what?

[Robbnva]

I will say going back reading wraith's posts, the one post that really seemed odd was wraith telling the doc(whoever that is) to protect dana

1. I don't think ANYONE actually beleived DP
2. Seemed like a way to ensure the doc was on dana, since DP died it allowed a mafia kill to go through

[singersigner]

I don't get the poro vote nor this....explore a different avenue....what you want people to aimlessly follow, or to question your vote....could've saved some time and already explained, but go ahead and do so now._

QFT.

I'm in class right now trying to read up on things, so I'll be able to post more thoughts later.

Also, I'm glad the thread explosions have been keeping to a minimal, lol.

[Gorrad]

Wicked's deduction that there is a SK doesn't sit well with me.

Unless this is a Mafia and Werewolves setup, which isn't a possibility I orginally thought of, then it only makes sense for the nhammen kill to have been from an SK.

Please tell me you don't ACTUALLY believe this. That kill could have come from:
SK
A second kill from the same mafia (I've given specific mafia members addition one-shot kills in the past)
Vig
PGO (for those unfamiliar with the role, kills those who target it at night. All in all unlikely given that the deceased is vanilla, but possible)
In a previous Flameaxe game, when two cult recruiters targeted the same person, that person died. Though I'm not suggesting a cult in this game, there could be two such counteracting roles.
Inventor
Reflector
ANY OTHER ROLE that Flameaxe could have made up. Even though this is a normal, BBM is far from your traditional mod. If we don't have some downright extraordinary roles this game, I will be shocked. By Science.

All that said? Probably SK or Vig. But do not make the mistake of thinking that it could only be a SK.

[Wraith]

IMO at the moment ConfidAnon and Mysterio are wagoning scum. There might be another on the wagon, too. I'll talk some more later.

[Porochaz]

LA for the next week

[Wraith]

ConfidAnon

I don't like his 228. It's pretty much fence-sitting against dana and Furcolow and tunneling against me. He makes me out as scum based almost entirely on word choice.

I find it funny that I was originally attacked for "bandwagoning dana" (despite clearly explaining several times what my reasons were) but ConfidAnon gets away with voting dana for flimsy reasons in 232. He has outlined that he believed dana was VI in 228, and votes dana "because it's inevitable anyway." That's just a fancy way of saying "Oh look at this nice bandwagon I can slip onto under the radar."

Allow me to repeat that I was attacked my multiple people for "blatant bandwagoning" on dana and "parroting other peoples' cases." Let's look at ConfidAnon's 236:

I found danakillsu scummy for the plethora of points mentioned by others. I didn't feel the need to mention them because I didn't want an unneccessarily long post. Walls which repeat thing clutter the thread. Probably should have put a statement like this in the original post, my apologies. Was rushing to get it out tehre.

The above was a response to an FoS by wickedestjr, who seems to be the only one calling out the scum in this game. I clearly stated my reasons, this is CA blatantly stating that he parroting. Yet, no objections from Porochaz or Xite? How "strange"...

I'll point out nhammen's 318. Through half that post he made a WoT case against me and agrees with ConfidAnon. Scumteam setting up a mislynch bandwagon.

In CA's 389 he first points out that he doesn't think Furc is scum, yet then outlines Furc's scummy actions, notably the AtE and Furc's constant pressure on a claimed cop. Smells of setting up bandwagon justification. The rest of his post is dedicated to attacking me, and he attacks me based on "fence-sitting." I was committing to my reads at first based on recklessness and lack of reading, but doing the ISOs gave me a better idea of those people. He attacks me for not believing the claim. Until someone is confirmed there is no reason NOT to doubt the claim. Dana's play was terrible before and after the claim and it made me doubt it. It's one of the flimsier claims I've seen in my time here. Lastly, he attacks me based on my opinion of Furcolow's meta. Furcolow is naturally an extremely scummy player and almost always turns out to be VI. So why should I think he's scum if I'm pretty confident he's a VI?

Also, I would like to pose a question to dana I don't has been asked or asnwered yet:

Dana, what was your investigation result last night?

To me, CA's 434 is golden. To defend his insistence that I am scum, he goes back and reverses his opinions: AtE is nulltell and insistence is towntell, despite having attacked Furc for those things in 389. Yet, didn't he attack me in 389 for insistence on dana's scumminess despite the claim? Hmmm...

In nhammen's 539 he states total agreement with CA's case against me.

During Day 2 he has stated that my "blatant OMGUS" because I don't like CA's play is for terrible reasons and makes me scum. Let's again mention CA's initial wagon vote on dana for "other people stated my reasons" reasons.

As for my vote on Frank, I stated my reasons, and I stated why that would probably get my lynch. That's what I get for trying to defend the idiot that digs his own grave. CA is just pushing a wagon on an easy target.

I'm going to look at Mysterio, Xite, and nhammen next, with Prozac added in if I'm not too tired.

[Wraith]

Myterio

In his third post, Mysterio makes a terrible, seemingly random vote against JDodge for scumhunting.

In his fifth, he puts a vote on the growing dana wagon for "failing to prove Furc is scum." This is just him grabbing at a reason to slip onto the wagon. Someone "failing to make a case against someone" is not worth a vote alone. He also claims that dana's reply was worthless, even though the reply referred him to dana's reasons for voting Furc.

He goes on to make several posts defending his flimsy reason for wagoning.

In his Post 11 he votes Frank for tunneling the claimed cop. Let's keep in mind that CA also stated Frank was scummy for tunneling the claimed cop (and later claimed that such insistence was a towntell) but didn't vote for him. Scum trying to keep their options open.

His later posts on Day 1 are him defending Prozac, who is another player that has been jumping around bandwagons all game.

In his Post 17, first one for Day 2, he immeidately jumps on the closest, most popular wagon, me, for "anti-town actions" that he fails to explain. Let's go back a day and remember that he originally voted dana for "failing to explain" his own reasons for suspecting Furcolow. Contradictions, opportunistic voting. Similar arguments to CA, defending Prozac. In his latest post he states how he suspected me in Post 444, but in that post he fails to state why he finds me suspicious. He has never stated why he finds me suspicious and is wagoning based on the cases of his scumbuddies.

At this point, I think the scumteam is CA/Prozac/Mysterio/nhammen, maybe with a fifth member. We'll see.

[Flameaxe]

LA for the next week

Gotcha. -Mod

[Wraith]

nhammenscum was a surprise to me, but it provides a lot of juicy hints as to who his scumbuddies are (CA and Myterio, maybe Prozac)

In his first WoT he states:

Unvote
Vote: JDodge

Way too sure of his reads this early in the game when half the players haven't even posted yet.

Interesting thought Mysterio. I didn't see this, but you could be right. Except, isn't it surety about Town reads that is usually the scumtell? Also, noted for future reference.

Scumbuddies in agreement. In the same post he starts setting up the mislynch wagon on me by accusing me of "overdefensiveness" for stating my opinion on Hiphop's random wagon. I was in no way defending myself against any accusations my hiphop, I was stating that I believed hiphop's wagon was random. Nhammen was fishing for reasons to mislynch me.

It's funny, because in this post:

Actually, dana has plenty of pressure. He can go without my vote on him for a bit. But those questions still better be answered.

UNVOTE: dana
VOTE: bunnylove

Start giving opinions.

nhammen unvotes dana because he has "plenty of pressure." Yet here:

Lots of reading to be done, but I want to make a comment before I finish.

FoS: hiphop Blatant wagoning. I at least have reasons for joining the wagon, despite what everyone else thinks. You don't. I'm not letting you slip in under the radar.

Also, I've realized I'm getting tunnel vision. Gonna start concentrating on other players for now, dana has enough pressure and has slipped up enough times.

Mainly gut, but this post I feel is very scummy. Although, the last line further enforces the wraith/dana scumteam idea.

CA attacks me for doing the same minus the unvote of dana. Where's the same accusation against nhammen, CA? Oh wait, he's your scum partner, that's why.

In nhammen's post 5 he states that dana and I are his top two scumreads. The most he had posted against me was a single sentence about how I was "overdefensive" against a randomwagon I knew was random. Obviously stating this to support a future mislynch with CA and Mysterio.

In his Post 7 nhammen attacks me for "blatant wagoning" on dana despite me stating my reasons. He also says:

Your reasons were "oh these other guys made great arguments!" That is also blatant wagoning.

Let's look at a CA post:

I found danakillsu scummy for the plethora of points mentioned by others. I didn't feel the need to mention them because I didn't want an unneccessarily long post. Walls which repeat thing clutter the thread. Probably should have put a statement like this in the original post, my apologies. Was rushing to get it out tehre.

No objection to that, more blatant "these others guys made great points" reasoning, nhammen? Oh wait, that's because CA is your scumbuddy.

In the same post nhammen completely agrees with CA's attacks against me.

Also, I'd like to know the reason for nhammen's vote on me. To me it seems like a randomvote on page 12.

Ummm... when unvoted Bunny and went back to dana, I said that it was between dana and you. I gave my reasons earlier. Not random in the slightest.

I'll restate that the most reason he gave for voting me was one point of false "overdefensiveness." He later used CA's reasons as his own, stating that they were why he voted me in the first place. Retroactive casemaking, with the help of a buddy. Blatant scumtell. I didn't notice it then because I wasn't reading a lot.

In his post 10 he restates how he completely agrees with CA's case against me.

[Wraith]

Xite is very, very town at the moment, and the only scumpoints I can bring against him are his insistence that I am scum no matter what I do. He insisted I was scum when I defended Frank (who flipped town, mind you), insisted I was scum when I brought up the possibility of lynching myself, and insisted I was scum when I reluctantly voted Frank and told everyone he would probably flip town anyway (and I was right, mind you). Beyond that, the only reason I think the town should suspect him is if he lives to the endgame. A player that townie never lasts unless he is protected.

[Shanba]

Wraith: I like your latest posts (and intend in reading them in more detail later), but the last one has brought to mind a question - why

did

you vote frank in the end? There's something about his "continuing ultra-scummy play" and "nothing ventured nothing gained" and about how you're losing faith in your defence of him, but overall the whole tone of those posts is really confused and even in the one just after you voted him you've almost moved back to defending him again - with the whole "I think it's bad in the long run".

[Wraith]

Basically, I was fed up with him not changing his attitude despite that I was drawing craploads of flak on myself to defend him. I believed he was town solely on meta, but otherwise his play screamed "scum!" Hoewver, I'll admit that I believed he was town to the end, but he's probably the hardest player to read, ever, simply because of how scummy he plays. It was a toss-up on how he would flip, but I guessed correctly in the end.

[danakillsu]

Uh... Wraith... how could you miss it? It's been discussed endlessly. I investigated my cop cc, DP, and found he was innocent.

[Wraith]

Uh... Wraith... how could you miss it? It's been discussed endlessly. I investigated my cop cc, DP, and found he was innocent.

Sorry, I remember I did see it but I forgot.

[singersigner]

@Wraith...I'll agree with Shanba about really liking your latest posts. I'm inclined to believe you are pro-town for this, and think that you make a good point about CA and nhammen being a scum pair...but we'll see.

It's also interesting the point you make about CA getting on your case about parroting, when he very clearly did the same thing. Xite had also made a point to point out that I was parroting, too...then why would they "overlook" CA...

Why haven't you placed a vote yet?

I don't agree with your assessment of Xite being "very, very town at the moment." Why don't you think he'll continue being pro-town? Also, I don't really think his "tunneling" or overly confident 'scum-hunting' his very pro-town. I've seen people use the excuse "well that's just how I play," and while it might be, it still doesn't do us any good to not look at others. It's honestly giving me a Fate vibe.

I think there is some sort of bus going on here, whether it's Wraith/Mysterio, or Xite/Wraith, Flinter/Mysterio, I don't know. But looking back, I think Mysterio's vote is opportunistic on Wraith, and now Wraith is fighting back in all his glory (I can't tell if that makes him scummy or not). Then he proclaims he's confident with his vote on Wraith...I'm thinking he proclaimed this thinking no one would go back and look at his reasoning, since everyone's posted more legitimate reasons than he did.

VOTE: Mysterio

[Xite91]

@Robb - One look at your ISO should tell you why I suspect you

I don't think Wraith is scum. I don't agree that the shift on position on Frank is particularly scummy - if you read my posts you'll notice a similar thing happening with my read on dana (though in the opposite direction). More to the point, though, that kind of repositioning requires a degree of bravery, and hence is more likely to come through conviction of belief than desire to jump on a lynchwagon.

The rest of the Wraith case is not overly convincing.

Hiphop still needs to up his contribution. I am in horror of suddenly realising it's day 4 and we still have nothing we can use to determine his alignment. I also think he's still scummy, but

Vote: Porochaz

because I want to explore a different avenue instead.

That first paragraph - I did not notice it to the degree that Wraith did it. This was practically what he did
"Hey guys, Frank is town"
"Hey guys, shut up and listen to me, frank is town"
"Okay, lynch me instead of frank" (this is the one that made me suspect him most)
"Whatever, Vote: Frank"
"Frank is still town"

Do you even read my posts? Im pretty sure I had a good case on him

Wha? Day 4? Are you playing the same game as us?
You still think hip-hops scummy, but lets explore something else just cuz? WTF??

ConfidAnon

1) I don't like his 228. It's pretty much fence-sitting against dana and Furcolow and tunneling against me. He makes me out as scum based almost entirely on word choice.

2) Allow me to repeat that I was attacked my multiple people for "blatant bandwagoning" on dana and "parroting other peoples' cases." Let's look at ConfidAnon's 236:

3) The above was a response to an FoS by wickedestjr, who seems to be the only one calling out the scum in this game. I clearly stated my reasons, this is CA blatantly stating that he parroting. Yet, no objections from Porochaz or Xite? How "strange"...

4) I'll point out nhammen's 318. Through half that post he made a WoT case against me and agrees with ConfidAnon. Scumteam setting up a mislynch bandwagon.

5) In CA's 389 he first points out that he doesn't think Furc is scum, yet then outlines Furc's scummy actions, notably the AtE and Furc's constant pressure on a claimed cop. Smells of setting up bandwagon justification. The rest of his post is dedicated to attacking me, and he attacks me based on "fence-sitting." I was committing to my reads at first based on recklessness and lack of reading, but doing the ISOs gave me a better idea of those people. He attacks me for not believing the claim. Until someone is confirmed there is no reason NOT to doubt the claim. Dana's play was terrible before and after the claim and it made me doubt it. It's one of the flimsier claims I've seen in my time here. Lastly, he attacks me based on my opinion of Furcolow's meta. Furcolow is naturally an extremely scummy player and almost always turns out to be VI. So why should I think he's scum if I'm pretty confident he's a VI?

6) Also, I would like to pose a question to dana I don't has been asked or asnwered yet:

Dana, what was your investigation result last night?

7) During Day 2 he has stated that my "blatant OMGUS" because I don't like CA's play is for terrible reasons and makes me scum. Let's again mention CA's initial wagon vote on dana for "other people stated my reasons" reasons.

8) As for my vote on Frank, I stated my reasons, and I stated why that would probably get my lynch. That's what I get for trying to defend the idiot that digs his own grave. CA is just pushing a wagon on an easy target.

9) I'm going to look at Mysterio, Xite, and nhammen next, with Prozac added in if I'm not too tired.

1) How does one fence-sit and tunnel at the same time? Especially at a different player than the two he's fence-sitting on?
2) There's a difference between voting because you agree with a case and voting just cuz.
3) First, I'm going to take a look at wicked when you flip scum. Second, if you're going to attack someone, then attack them. I would love to see a case from you against two of the more (according to other players IIRC) "pro-town players" It would make my day
4) I love how you call it them setting up a mislynch, first considering that none of us know that... yet. Also, considering that you have been TRYING to get yourself lynched
5) I've seen much "flimsier" cases.
6) Thank you for confirming that you don't read the game except ISOs. That's a good one to know. Oh, and that's a typical scumtrait. Townies scrutinize everything.
7) Strawman much? How does point A connect to point Z there?
8) Lulz AtE
9) Waiting on and actual case on me and prozac

10) Scumbuddies in agreement. In the same post he starts setting up the mislynch wagon on me by accusing me of "overdefensiveness" for stating my opinion on Hiphop's random wagon. I was in no way defending myself against any accusations my hiphop, I was stating that I believed hiphop's wagon was random. Nhammen was fishing for reasons to mislynch me.

11) nhammen unvotes dana because he has "plenty of pressure." Yet here:

CA attacks me for doing the same minus the unvote of dana. Where's the same accusation against nhammen, CA? Oh wait, he's your scum partner, that's why.

12) In nhammen's post 5 he states that dana and I are his top two scumreads. The most he had posted against me was a single sentence about how I was "overdefensive" against a randomwagon I knew was random. Obviously stating this to support a future mislynch with CA and Mysterio.

13)

I found danakillsu scummy for the plethora of points mentioned by others. I didn't feel the need to mention them because I didn't want an unneccessarily long post. Walls which repeat thing clutter the thread. Probably should have put a statement like this in the original post, my apologies. Was rushing to get it out tehre.

14) In the same post nhammen completely agrees with CA's attacks against me.

Also, I'd like to know the reason for nhammen's vote on me. To me it seems like a randomvote on page 12.

Ummm... when unvoted Bunny and went back to dana, I said that it was between dana and you. I gave my reasons earlier. Not random in the slightest.

10) Of course. They agree so they must be scumbuddies
11) Again, that whole point A to point Z thing. You did things DIFFERENTLY therefore, people act differently to what you do. It's the wording, it's the way of the attacks. Read a bit more into things plox
12) Way to point that out. When scum do that, there's usually at least 1 scum in their "reads" it's an early bussing tech, and it's also in case they die, it "clears" their buddy. So, when you flip scum, I'm more inclined to believe dana-town.
13) IIRC that's sheeping, not plain wagoning, AKA he had "reasons"
14) Whaaaaa??

Spoiler:

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Xite is very, very town at the moment, and the only scumpoints I can bring against him are his insistence that I am scum no matter what I do. He insisted I was scum when I defended Frank (who flipped town, mind you), insisted I was scum when I brought up the possibility of lynching myself, and insisted I was scum when I reluctantly voted Frank and told everyone he would probably flip town anyway (and I was right, mind you). Beyond that, the only reason I think the town should suspect him is if he lives to the endgame. A player that townie never lasts unless he is protected.

Okay, so I'm scum because I'm pointing out obvscum behavior?
I responded to the rest already

Confirm confirmed super-confirm vote: Wraith

Side note: Just got home from work, slightly silly so I apologize

[Xite91]

1) @Wraith...I'll agree with Shanba about really liking your latest posts. I'm inclined to believe you are pro-town for this, and think that you make a good point about CA and nhammen being a scum pair...but we'll see.

2) It's also interesting the point you make about CA getting on your case about parroting, when he very clearly did the same thing. Xite had also made a point to point out that I was parroting, too...then why would they "overlook" CA...

3) I don't agree with your assessment of Xite being "very, very town at the moment." Why don't you think he'll continue being pro-town? Also, I don't really think his "tunneling" or overly confident 'scum-hunting' his very pro-town. I've seen people use the excuse "well that's just how I play," and while it might be, it still doesn't do us any good to not look at others. It's honestly giving me a Fate vibe.

4) I think there is some sort of bus going on here, whether it's Wraith/Mysterio, or Xite/Wraith, Flinter/Mysterio, I don't know. But looking back, I think Mysterio's vote is opportunistic on Wraith, and now Wraith is fighting back in all his glory (I can't tell if that makes him scummy or not). Then he proclaims he's confident with his vote on Wraith...I'm thinking he proclaimed this thinking no one would go back and look at his reasoning, since everyone's posted more legitimate reasons than he did.

5) VOTE: Mysterio

1) Scum can do this too, and considering it came AFTER suspicion on him, I think he is VERRRRRY scummy for it
2) He wasn't parroting, he was sheeping. There is a difference, and if he kept doing it I would suspect him for it, but one or two times is a null-tell for what should be obvious reasoning. Parroting is taking someone else's case, rewording it, and then spitting it back out and calling it yours. That's scummy automatically.
3) Ooh, are you gonna make a case against me? PWEEEEEEAAAAASE?
4) Fluffyfluffyflufffluff, oh wait, PARROTING lulz
5) And what was that who said about opportunism?

[Flameaxe]

By the way, I'm not really a big fan of spoiler tags. Try to refrain from using them in the future. Thanks.

PS: Activity Check tomorrow. Be prepared, be active. (In other words, if you are reading this, and you notice you haven't posted in over 48 hours, you should post and save me the trouble!)

[singersigner]

1) Scum can do this too, and considering it came AFTER suspicion on him, I think he is VERRRRRY scummy for it
2) He wasn't parroting, he was sheeping. There is a difference, and if he kept doing it I would suspect him for it, but one or two times is a null-tell for what should be obvious reasoning. Parroting is taking someone else's case, rewording it, and then spitting it back out and calling it yours. That's scummy automatically.
3) Ooh, are you gonna make a case against me? PWEEEEEEAAAAASE?
4) Fluffyfluffyflufffluff, oh wait, PARROTING lulz
5) And what was that who said about opportunism?

1. You're right, but at least it gives us the opportunity to look back and see the assessments he's made himself to see if we agree with them. Is that not what we want? Even if they're scum?
2. What's sheeping?
3. I won't do it unless I think you're worth making one on. So far I haven't, so, uh, good job.
4. You ARE silly when you just get off work.
5. First off, if your silliness is affecting your grammar, I'd prefer you stop being silly for a bit. Second of all, opportunism comes from thinking that you can pretend to have a case on someone, but not really. I don't really feel the need to follow the Wraith wagon, since to me, his playing poorly is not indicative of playing scummy. I legitimately don't like the way Mysterio has been playing, so if you need me to lay it out for you when I have the time tomorrow, let me kindly oblige.

[Xite91]

@Mod: Sawwie

1) Yes, but you said it made him look protown
2) It's when I go I agree, but don't make their own case, it's a null tell, because town are just as likely to do it with a convincing case.
3) Awww
4) But hey, that was an actual point against you
5) Nope, no screw up in grammar. That's exactly how I meant to say it. Also, the myst wagon is forming, and you jump on it just in time to slide by.