Mini 1039 Lost: Season One (Over)

[HackerHuck]

Unless his win-con ends the game and we choose to lynch Dekes, there's no harm to the town in letting him live. That means I'd rather a vig target someone who really could hurt the town like a mafia or SK.

The way I see it, he's not mafia, which means that he counts against their win condition. That gives the scum an incentive to kill him, so I'd rather let them do it.

[chesskid3]

But if he truly is removed from game if we lynch Dekes, then we lose that lynch+Vezok+a night killl, so we effectively lose 3 townies

[HackerHuck]

So do you think that Dekes is scum? If so, wouldn't it be smarter for a vig to kill dekes than Vezok?

[chesskid3]

no I think Dekes is town, and Vezok is lyncher. But it's still better to vig Vezok so we don't have to worry about him screwing us over if we get to lylo for a joint win with mafia.

[vezokpiraka]

Let's lynch scum. bc is not scum.
Choose anoyther target.

[dramonic]

Unvote
Vote: Jenni

nothing game related has come out of you, really.

PoE tells me Jenni, Jason and Ademisk,

[Dekes]

Just wanted to address the points in BC's post directed at me:

Dekes Response post the the claim.
-Really Half Ass
-Remotely scummy
-WHY? I'll tell you!
--He spends the majority of the post Rebutting to Vezo's claim and even finding holes in it.

Correct. What would you have done if someone had fakeclaimed a guilty on you? And the holes were pretty obvious, too.

Yet when it comes down to the point he votes Me and stands that his vote on me/TheLonging are interchangable. That we were opportunistic.

Correct. Are you asking me why I didn't vote vezo instead? I answered that. Because I didn't (and don't) think he's scum.

i don't question cop-like sanity issues unless there has been a problem. Like if

someone claimed a guilty on X and X flipped scum.

Freudian slip?

Here's your first problem. I follow claims. Yes there were holes, however they were from Vezo. You should have all fucking seen that coming since FaraSera's Policy vote/lynch post. Vezok is a poor player sometimes.

Wait a second? What are you trying to say here? If I'm not mistaken you're saying that because Vezo is a bad player we should expect and accept holes in his story when he claims cop. Are you serious?

Anyway, I will

Unvote

because I don't want to be part of a lynch if some exonerating info about/from BC comes up while I'm away.

@mod: V/LA until Monday

[HackerHuck]

Vote farasera

I won't change my vote.
He is either scum or Jack.

What does this mean. If he's not scum or your lyncher target, why would you want to vote for him?

[HackerHuck]

Whatever you say dekes. I follow a claim of you being ethan which makes sense as a scum role what else was i supposed to do, ignore it? You may call me opportunistic but it was no way opportunistic. I am, believe it or not rather good at keeping track of thresholds and if someone were to come in and vote quickly I would have unvoted to let the day evolve so that you had time to claim or rebuttal. No doubt I do agree that occasionally the third or fourth vote on a player can be opportunistic. However scum-bloodcovenent would blindly jump on a wagon as the late voter with no reasoning. As you may ask what my reasoning is... well.... it's that there was a claim that your role was of an "other." And they are bad in season 1. Therefore i felt confident in you as a lynch. Note that it doesn't make sense for Scum Vezo to so early give off a fake claim though. Because i would assume he knows that if you flip town, he will be ultimately hung tomorrow. -One of the reasons why I followed him.

Anyways. I'll stall the wagon for now.

Unvote:
Vote: Ademisk

scum.

I remembered this being a little off when it happened. This is before you discussed the possibility of Vezok as a lyncher. It's not too odd that you jumped off of Dekes here, but it doesn't make why you didn't wagon Vezok.

Dram, why aren't you talking about the Bloodcovenant Wagon? Magna even asked you about it directly and you've still don't comment.

[Ademisk]

@HackerHuck: Oops, I guess looking back on it now it does seem like I'm PR hunting. I didn't like what chesskids tone was implying in post 244 so I took the initiative. I think we were just bored being the only ones online at the time.

I don't know the theme, so I can't comment on that directly. But given the discussion how Ethan is the best fitting scum role, it would be an easy choice which role to stick someone with to have them look suspicious. Given Dekes claim and the growing agreement that Vezok was a lyncher, I think he just took the convenient exit this provided him. Between the time the lyncher role was brought up and when he admitted to it, he stayed away from discussion and only tried to distance himself from the lyncher claim and only once FaraSera and dram made him a deal did he decide to come clean. He certainly had time to think it through. But I will say that it was a nice coincidence that he hit Claire with his first attempt.

I think Vezok is worth a lynch (if not today, then sometime really soon) because he already openly stated his intent to not help us and is actively doing so, even though he's 'scum hunting'. He may be against the mafia's win condition, but I think we can agree that they will try to kill him later rather than sooner if only to have us suffer with him. And thats if he's a lyncher. I don't believe he is. Actions speak louder than words, and he's made a few really bad ones. Therefore, for me is he one of the top scum suspects.

[jenniwren]

@

Dramonic

: It's been a rough week, but I DID post something on Tuesday. (Post 197: viewtopic.php?p=2484020#p2484020) I clearly state that I'm coming back to the argument I started, but I haven't had a chance to do so until now because of some real life issues. Also, while I did post a couple of fangirl comments (ISO 4--in response to an ongoing discussion, 6, and 7), I actually posted a couple of useful things earlier in the thread (ISO 1-3, 5). You could probably find them in my ISO, but I summarize them in post #197, linked here. I hope this clears up any question you had about my participation.

Also on that note, Jason is V/LA. Why are you speculating we are a scum team with Adem? Aside from my not posting anything "game-related," you don't give any reasoning for accusing any one of us.

Finally, about the FaraSera comment regarding Dekes/Claire and the fakeclaim. He said it was "more likely" that Claire was a fake claim than scum, which infers to me that he meant she's not either one, but that if she were, she would more likely be a fakeclaim than a scum. It's like saying "if that's true, then I'm a monkey's uncle" or something else completely subjunctive; that's how I took it, anyway. Just a thought.

@

MoI

: I had to cut my posting short on Tuesday and didn't vote then because I wanted to finish before doing so. Before I get into the case I want to make today, I want to answer a question that wasn't specifically addressed to me, and that was as to who could be scum out of the S1 cast. Ethan, of course would be the most obvious choice for scum, as he actively infiltrated the Losties and did very bad things. However, I am not discounting the possibility that characters like Mr. Friendly (aka Tom, who stole Walt), Rousseau, the US Marshal, or even Christian Shephard might be in-game scum or third party characters.

About

TheLonging

: I started my case with him, but since then, Chess made the comment that "First, I think TheLonging genuinely missed Dekes comment about the nameclaiming in general, since he didn't address it specifically at Vezok, and a bunch of people were talking about it at the time" (Post 214). TL agreed with this, and hasn't posted since. I am willing to put my case against him on hold until he posts again.

About

HackerHuck

: His early posts seem sincere enough to me; I was also confused about the lyncher; I thought Vezok's story was too good to be true, and when Dekes' claimed Claire, I was really thrown off, since he was claiming to be Ethan's primary target (again, look at FaraSera's signature...it was always her). I can empathize with his reaction to that incident. I think you (MoI) have made some interesting points about him, primarily the one about "cognitive dissonance," but I'm not sold on his guilt, and he's made some good points in today's posts.

About

BloodCovenent

: I didn't like his suggestion that everyone nameclaim right away (post #49/ISO #4); even if there is a flavor-scramble, we can't count on that, and I know my flavor makes sense with my role, and there are ample characters who could be scum who are also among the fourteen protagonists, so this seems like a way to try to rolefish; I think there's an assumption on the floor (someone said it in an offhand sort of way) that Jack would be the obv-doc, so when and if someone claims Jack, they will be putting a big fat target on their heads based on name only (unless Jack is really scum, in which case, nameclaiming might actually benefit him). However, several people have already addressed this point, so I won't belabor it any longer.

You bring up some good points in your Tuesday post #209, but there a couple of things I want to add to that or expound upon on my own.

In this post, BC responds to MoI about his earlier comment that he had noted MoI as being the one who brought up the idea of a lyncher.

The person who brought up the idea of someone being a lyncher is (imo) just as scummy as someone who brings up the idea of a jester. It's a scum tactic to distract the town from a possible scum lynch.

Had it been later in D1, and we were approaching a no-lynch situation, I could see why BC would have called it scummy as it could be a stalling tactic. However, this statement came pretty early in the day and ended up being valid. I think being quick to call the suggestion scummy is fishy.

In BC's post defending himself against MoI's case, I don't like that he resorts to caps lock/swearing. I find that to be an intimidation tactic, as well as a distraction. I also don't like his reference to other games; but I don't like it when ANYONE uses that as an excuse to get by with something.

In BC's case against Chesskid, one of his primary reasons for voting Chess is "poisoning of the well" because Chess listed BC as being last to jump off the wagon. Actually, this is what Chess posted. Notice that he says BC was the SECOND person off the wagon, not the last.

The people who hopped

on

that wagon, in order were:
FaraSera
Me
Vezo
TheLonging
[Ademisk hops in with an objection and an FoS Sera]
BloodCovenent hops in.
[Dekes claims]
I hop off to think things over
BloodCovenent hops off.

I don't really see that as poisoning any well; it's not even something that registered with me. However, BC is a bit defensive about it and jumps to his conclusion very quickly.

As to the other reasons behind his vote on Chess, I think that they are pretty weak: aren't Quick Topics standard for mafia/masons/etc? Also, he claims Chess makes an OMGUS case, but his case on Chess includes the ordered list as well as the comment that "Claims to give me time to respond before he votes. but doesn't." and that Chess's vote on BC is scummy because it's a pressure vote. I think that pressure votes can be useful tools, so unless Chess has done something else that makes it appear that his pressure vote is just opportunistic bandwagoning, I don't think that calling it scummy holds water, especially since Chess has made a habit of applying pressure votes. The other reasons BC lists for voting Chess seem like weak support for the thesis that he is scum, and they don't even support the claim that a pressure vote may be a smokescreen for scumminess.

Overall, I think BC has been behaving questionably. He seems a bit overly defensive, and by this I mean that the questions put to him are based on his own actions; they are legitimate questions, and I think his overreaction to them indicates that he has something to hide. Also, his case on Chess is demonstrably weak, and despite his accusations that Chess is full of OMGUS, his own case against Chess is pretty much BUILT on it.

Vote: BloodCovenent

[dramonic]

Guys, we are not lynching BC.
He is a VERY bad lynch.

Look somewhere else.

[Ademisk]

Let's lynch scum. bc is not scum.
Choose anoyther target.

Can you be a little less vague. What evidence do you have to contrast the growing pile of evidence against him? And who would this other target be?

Guys, we are not lynching BC.
He is a VERY bad lynch.

Look somewhere else.

I'm not sure if this is a Vezok's post 254 parody or if you really mean this, but why is he a bad lynch? And just because everyone else is doing it, I'd like to see you make a long post case on who you do think is a good lynch

[chesskid3]

Just a heads up, I will be

V/LA from Saturday 9/4 to Saturday 9/11

Super sorry, but I'm moving to college and doing community action next week no internet so yeah.

I will be around tomorrow though

[dramonic]

I'm not sure if this is a Vezok's post 254 parody or if you really mean this, but why is he a bad lynch?

How about "I have inside information that doesn't include me being a fake-rolecop/lyncher that makes me know he's a bad lynch for the town?"

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI: I'm the type of person who finds every little thing thats out of the ordinary suspicious. As such, I tend not to cast my vote too eagerly to counterbalance that, which makes me seem afraid to vote. Don't worry, when I feel I have a case that warrants a vote, I'll cast it. And while its a good thing that you are able to keep up with all players, you should be more careful because my discussion of testing methods was before Vezok's final claim, and my 'disagreements' with chess and FaraSera was nothing more than a question about how to proceed.

I’m not worried as to how you operate. That’s you personal choice. That said I very much dislike players who hold of on laying votes down. Color me jaded but I personally think VC analysis is a powerful tool and avoidance of voting is a prime way scum can deflect attention form a VC analysis.

Again should I be careful? The order I listed the highlights of your ISO has nothing to do with chronology.

That said I’m somewhat put off by your response. You state that when you have a case that warrants a vote you will. And then you proceed to cast a vote for Vezo. Yet between the post where I question you and your response Vez provide no new information. Why couldn’t you have posted a vote prior to being prodded by me? The information you cite in your case was already in the thread.

And it is somewhat convenient that your second suspicion happens to be the player under the most scrutiny.

Thats assuming he is a lyncher, chesskid.

Why is Vigging him a bad move even if he is scum? If we don’t have a Town vig we can always lynch him after Day 1. If he is a lyncher then that’s a day we are not lynching Mafia. Give any potential Vig a chance.

nothing game related has come out of you, really.

PoE tells me Jenni, Jason and Ademisk,

I don’t see any very many ways that PoE is really a viable tactic currently Day 1.

How about "I have inside information that doesn't include me being a fake-rolecop/lyncher that makes me know he's a bad lynch for the town?"

God damn you dramonic.

UNVOTE: BC
VOTE: HackerHuck

Before I get into the case I want to make today, I want to answer a question that wasn't specifically addressed to me, and that was as to who could be scum out of the S1 cast. Ethan, of course would be the most obvious choice for scum, as he actively infiltrated the Losties and did very bad things. However, I am not discounting the possibility that characters like Mr. Friendly (aka Tom, who stole Walt), Rousseau, the US Marshal, or even Christian Shephard might be in-game scum or third party characters.

First let me say I REALLY dislike when players specifically answer questions for others. You’ve just eliminated the results I hoped to gain by seeing FSHydra’s response.

Bad Jenni – no donut!!!!

That said your character speculation is interesting. Tom was only in season 1 for like 5 minutes. Rousseau seems more like a 3rd party style survivor. Christian Shephard is a possibility since ‘he’ is the Smoke Monster. I’m not sure the U.S. Marshall really qualifies as scum since Kate was being brought back for murder. They all could be there in a stretch I suppose.

At this point I’m leaning towards bastard flavor Mafia by xReck.

MOD

– I’ll be V/LA from today at 4pm EDT until some time Monday for normal family weekend and holiday duties.

[chesskid3]

So BC is a VI. Goddamnit.

Unvote

Spending all day packing today, not much time to say anything/nothign happened except the scummiest person alive was just randomly cleared.
Should I put down a vote before leaving for a week, or just remain unvoted?

[jenniwren]

QQ, I really wanted a donut, too. I didn't realize you had a specific plan in motion. /sorry

As to my character speculation, I've just been running through S1 in my head, wondering about the possibilities. We know Ethan is in-game, and has targeted Claire, and he was the most obvious villain of the season. As for a couple of the ones I listed, though they have limited roles in S1, Tom's taking Walt was a catalyst for so many other things, and Rousseau also kidnapped Aaron at the end, too, so basically there are three kidnappers all lurking about and stalking Walt, Claire, and Aaron. No matter their motivations or anything else, they are all willing to take people against their will (though I guess Rousseau is less likely to be in-game than Tom, as Aaron is also sort of Ethan's target.) It makes me wonder if other roles are in-game targets in some way like Claire is (which makes it seem even more important to be careful about claiming). Anyway...that's probably me thinking too much.

By the way...what

is

PoE

...sorry for the newb question.

So. BC has been cleared. Time to put someone else under the microscope.

Unvote

Ademisk

, your case on Vezo (ISOs 10 and 15) is...interesting. Why are you so insistent in making such a case for lynching Vezok, whose credibility is already shot?

The only motivation I can see for wanting to make an easy and obvious lynch like that early in the day (and early in the game, for that matter) is a scummy motivation because it would require us to lynch someone whose intentions we already know and whose flip would therefore be uninformative. On the flip side, it would give scum a day pass and NK. The plot you have presented is contrived of WIFOM (that Vezo is really just scum masquerading as a lyncher), and the conclusion of your argument suggests we go so far as to lynch him because he said he would get in our way. Well...since we're all pretty much ignoring him, we're not really in any danger of that. Also, you make comments like "the admission itself was garbled and incomprehensible" (ISO 10), but Vezo's admission is one line: "Dekes is Claire alright. I am Ethan and I have the fake claim Boone. And yes I am a lyncher."
That's pretty clear; there are two other paragraphs in that post, but his actual admission is singular and specific. I wouldn't call that a misrep exactly, but it's not an accurate analysis of the post, either.

Because I think your motivations in pushing a Vezo lynch are full of scummy intent, I will

Vote: Ademisk

P.S. Obligatory fangirl comment about how much I wish I had a million dollars to spend on the LOST auction...they are actually auctioning the Jesus Stick, among other things.

P.P.S.: Sorry if I'm a bit scattered tonight; just drove 600 miles to get back to school. Sooo tired.

[BloodCovenent]

i've just been swamped with work and school. will do my absolute best to post after work tomorrow.

~posting this in all my games.


I am especially sorry for this game. since i know i have a lot of unanswered questions.

p.s. what does VI stand for?

[chesskid3]

village idiot

[Ademisk]

@MoI: That was intended to be more of a pressure vote, though I do still see him as more scum than not. He isn't posting, and to be honest, I don't think he will do more unless prodded. In addition, I looked back through his ISO where I found a couple of other kind of scummy things like saying he intends to help us find scum but then he goes back to being difficult. It's true that your post helped me decide, but in my eyes he always was the most...interesting suspect. The only way for him to clear his case is to talk more, so he isn't doing himself any favors either by hiding.

Vigging Vezok would definitely be the ideal resolution to our current problem. I'm not trying to out anyone, but we don't even know if there is a vig. If there is, great, since it doesn't look like anyone will be joining me anytime soon. That said, I hope Vezok takes the hint and gets some content in before his next disappearance.

@dramonic: I'm not one to take things on faith so easily, so forgive me if I don't take your word for it when all you've said is 'trust me, don't do it'. And I can't help but relate your post to Vezok's last post, so I'll be keeping an eye on you two.

@chess, jenn, and MoI: I feel you guys are a bit too eager to jump off the BC wagon. I hope I'm not missing anything, but there's nothing but dramonic's cryptic quote to base your conclusion that he's a VI. It seems the standard here is that if someone claims something, people tend to trust them so that part is ok, but given Vezok's play I'm a bit worried that you aren't more careful about trusting people, especially when their reason is much weaker.

@jenn: I went for Vezok because I think he is more likely to be scum than lyncher. You go to assume that just because his credibility is shot that he must be a lyncher. Sure, its possible, but thats not how I see it. And I would definitely not say he is the most easiest lynch. For that matter, he never was. When he changed his mind, most everyone just accepted it like they accepted his first claim (except MoI, yea yea, details).

As for his admission post, I think you should go re-read it again and compare it to his other posts. I think he claims 3 times in there: at the start when he says fara is right, in the middle with that quote you showed me, and again at the end when he repeats his new role. At the same time, he mixes in role speculation and scum accusations. Its like his mind is all over the place. That whole post is just awkwardly structured. I'm not basing my case on it, but its certainly an interesting post considering everything.

[chesskid3]

Ademisk, Dram has role related info that makes him know BC is town.
Since BC is town and yet really scummy , that makes him a VI

[xRECKONERx]

BloodCovenent (1): Faraseradayaphim
jenniwren (2): jasonT1981, dramonic
Faraseradayaphim (1): vezokpiraka
chesskid3 (1): BloodCovenent
vezokpiraka (1): Ademisk
HackerHuck (1): MagnaofIllusion
Ademisk (1): jenniwren

Not voting (4): HackerHuck, TheLonging, Dekes, chesskid3

12 alive, 7 to lynch.

[dramonic]

Ademisk, Dram has role related info that makes him know BC is town.
Since BC is town and yet really scummy , that makes him a VI

I never said THAT

unvote

I'm fairly vla for the weekeed

[jasonT1981]

Just checking in, had a hectic week trying to get things sorted. Finding a work placement is hell. Especially in such a small area. going to

unvote

main reason of my vote was to get Jenni talking more, I thought maybe some pressure would do that. Going to get caught up by tomorrow evening, sorry... just been bloody busy and am behind in all my games this week