/Invitational 11: Pick your Poison 5 (Game Over)

[Kmd4390]

Can't decide whether zoraster or vas is scummier and I don't think both are scum.

[AdumbroDeus]

Ok, just did a marathon catch-up session, slightly intimidated by the playerlist, but let's see how this goes.


I really don't like Vas' play, I especially don't like his excuse for not scumhunting, I have yet to see him make a legitimately useful post in the game. Add to that his defense strikes me as a bit... pathetic, especially early on. Concision is nice, but he barely seems to address the actual points.


I don't really like Rhinox either, limited overall contribution but regular enough to not draw attention, get a slight "attempting to blend read", but that's partially counterbalanced by the unsafe mirth call-out.


Speaking of blending, there's somebody who seems far more guilty of this, SpyreX, why are you posting so little content atm?

@Vas

: Could you provide the latecomer with a clear and concise case for why you're not scum and Sereph is?

@Rhinox and SpyreX

: As of right now, who do you wanna lynch toDay and why?

[Herodotus]

@Rhinox:
Do you have any clarification regarding the second quote from post 1052?

[SpyreX]

But actually what I really want is more spyrex in this game. I mean, yesterday he was making an argument where I was doing pretty much nothing. I would argue that today, especially over the last week, spyrex is now guilty of that accusation.

I AM guilty of it, to a degree. I probably need to sit down and recalibrate on the game as a whole.

However, I'm not sure what secret decoder ring I need to get things answered because I've sure had a lot of that. Like this one I STILL really want addressed from that wave of Sera votes (or Sera prep votes) OR the Vas is sooo town:

The hell?

I want VV explained in simple, clean "this is why he is town and Sera is scum for going after him"

Bonus points on why Sera is scum and I'm not because I'm been pretty clear about wanting VV dead as well.

Additionally, NOW that I see what Zito is saying I'm interested - however, I'm not seeing bus. Ooba ISO 25 isn't the bussing angle kind of business. A VV scumflip goes a long way to clearing ooba in my head (and makes Sera clear, period).

But, this:

If we're going to lynch based on the "VV is town" assumption, spyrex is a much better lynch. He hasn't really been too assertive in pushing the lynch which tells me he wants it to happen but he doesn't want to lead the charge.

If you're saying I haven't clearly been saying that VV is scum for a good long time and MOST OF SAID TIME been dealing with "ohh meta says #E$&*(#&($&#($H" well I don't know.

[ooba]

Catching up..

[ooba]

While PZ's analysis is interesting
- Hoopla's gambit might have neutralized the Janitor but it gave scum the most strategic options. And assassin is the worst role of the lot. My choices were based on limiting the damage a scum PR can do
- Also if I was trying to maximize the PR finding capabilities - there should have been two vigs in the setup - unless you're counting a block\protect yesterday
- There was a general lack of traction for the idea as a whole.

Also I find it intriguing that you were able to look at the kills, go back and see the D0 exchanges and come up with that theory in under 5 minutes ..
Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:49 pm
Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:55 pm

"ooba: Answer Rhinox's point in 1000: Why did you go from a stance of "zoraster>VV" yesterday to voting VV, on the basis of 801?"
The way he asked questions in 801 - looked like a random bunch of questions thrown around with no purpose - Got a very strong scum vibe.

I have no clue what 1057 means. elli is town.

Agree with 1075.

Also I need to re-read in entirety this game to get my bearings again ..

[Plumegranate]

Seraph is not the lynch for today. I've been going back and forth on this, but I don't think scum have to try that hard to get VV lynched. It'd be easier to get rid of the opposition to the VV lynch, and then grab it later when someone suggests that VV is way to scummy to let get anywhere near endgame and the policy lynch commences. I'd have expected scum in seraphs position to abandon the VV wagon today and get a wagon going on me for example a couple pages

Proooobably . . . I've been going back and forth a little in my head about Seraph's super-tunnelling (well, to the point that he made those incredible stretching arguments about scum-VV being set up as Vig-bait, even if he did take them back after the utter dsfgfsgfhskj.hfsaness was pointed out).

What's interesting about this list is that the only one who makes a public, confirmable action is... the vig. What, then, would happen if the roleblocker correctly chose to block the vigilante? Why, the scum would then know that they had found the vig.

In other words, rolecop + roleblocker + nightkill gives the scum three chances per day/night cycle to find the hidden vigilante, making it virtually impossible for the vig to stay alive and safely hidden. And ooba was the one who advocated for this.

This

was what I was sheeping on you for? I mean, it looks honest enough coming from you, but I don't see a stroke of genius here - mostly because the Roleblocker is limited-shot and the scum would thus be less likely to use it blindly (I agree that the only case in which they would do so would be to find the Vig, but I think it's more likely that they'd want to conserve the shots to some degree and not risk wasting them). Honestly, the combo was Hoopla's first choice initially, mith's second choice, Tajo's initial choice, and Troll also expressed initial approval of the notion. Simply put, I'd be hard-pressed to see that initial thought process as anything but null, just given that.

I'd say I'll do a better reread of the ongoing VV/Seraphim argument but in fact I have such little desire to, and such a feeling that at this point in the game it's not worth it at all, that I probably won't.

So maybe it got lost in the shuffle, but are we completely leaving the elmo tajo thing alone? It seems like in our quest for information, this might be a good place to start, especially since we know they have a roleblocker.

Is this player even

pretending

to read this game?

I have to go out to learn to drive now, but what I certainly

will/i] be doing later today is a Zoro reread.

[Elmo]

VAS ANSWER MY QUESTIONS o9

(well, to the point that he made those incredible stretching arguments about scum-VV being set up as Vig-bait, even if he did take them back after the utter dsfgfsgfhskj.hfsaness was pointed out).

Hahaha, Plum's town

I'd say I'll do a better reread of the ongoing VV/Seraphim argument but in fact I have such little desire to, and such a feeling that at this point in the game it's not worth it at all, that I probably won't.

You could always revisit DGB? She looks to be the only realistic 'third way' at this point. (Glad to know I'm not alone, too )

I have to go out to learn to drive now, but what I certainly

will

be doing later today is a Zoro reread.

[My Milked Eek]

Hi, I'm back. I didn't get a green light yet from the mod, but I assume there is no issue with me re-replacing myself as SK is on v/la this weekend to begin with. Thanks for the patience and understanding. I will pick up posting tonight or tomorrow depending on when I finish reading this topic and my level of tiredness.

[Patrick]

Yep, My Milked Eek steps back into the spot. Thanks to SK for temp-replacing.

[Patrick]

Votecount

VasudeVa (4) -- Seraphim, ooba, SpyreX, Kmd4390
ooba (4) -- Papa Zito, Plumegranate, Rhinox, ekiM
DrippingGoofball (2) -- mith, Elmo
Seraphim (1) -- SaintKerrigan
zoraster (3) -- DrippingGoofball, Ellibereth, VasudeVa

Not voting: AdumbroDeus, Herodotus, zoraster
17 alive, 9 to lynch.

Deadline: 11th of September, 6 am GMT.

[Herodotus]

I don't like this -- for the first time ever in a game, there isn't a single player for whom I couldn't make an argument (to myself) that they are town.

vote: Papa Zito

(yes, that includes him)

I consider his day 0 play anti-town. (Counterpoint: he was bold about it, and didn't try to actively lurk or pretend to be helpful.)
He was on the janitor wagon, but considering how the scum used it, I no longer think they went out in force to support it.
The first time he cooperated with outside-the-box town strategy was when he waited the 24 hours while scum assigned their roles to vote. Considering he'd already called for a lynch of Hoopla, and voted her right away, his cooperation was only a formality. Looks a little like following the herd, the opposite of the above counterpoint. Scum angle is: fitting in just to fit in; town angle is: he wasn't trying to fit in before that.
Being on the hoopla wagon is +scumpoints. Joining it first neutralizes some of said scumpoints. But the tunneling amounted to a lack of voting for any scum.
During the second half of day 1, PZ considered Vas a good candidate (apparently either Vas or Troll was his second choice after Hoopla) for lynch. On day 2, he had not the least finger of suspicion for Vas.
He supported the RB from the beginning, which by his own claims against ooba, gives the scum an extra attempt to find the vig each night. I don't support that argument, BUT his own case against ooba works against him.

[Ellibereth]

I don't get what you keep saying about getting info the elmo-tajo thing.
You being zor.

And what do you think aboue people OTHER than DGB.

[Ellibereth]

Isn't Zito's thing on ooba/
RB + RC
not just RB?

Cause I remember loads of people liking RB.

[Ellibereth]

I still think that at least 1 of {ekim, Vas (maybe Plumen)} is scumz due to tajo btw.

[Herodotus]

Can't decide whether zoraster or vas is scummier and I don't think both are scum.

Of the two, I'd lean toward Zor at this point.
In fact, I'll reread Zor asap.

@Elli:
Yes, and my original preference would have been RB + Assassin, too. But the focal point of PZ's argument about ooba is the idea that giving the scum a RB allows them an additional means of finding the vig. It's hypocritical.

[Ellibereth]

oigetit, Zito said it was the roleblocker that was "especially damning", not the combination.
Thanks

[Seraphim]

We still have 6 days or so but we really need to start laying down the law here. People, in their next post, should post the order of preference for three of the current "wagons" going right now or even better, change your vote for who you want to lynch. Game is stagnating a little and this needs to be rectified.

VasudeVa>>>>zoraster(so THAT'S why people are voting him)>>DGB

[Ellibereth]

VASSSSSSSSS
YOU KNOW I WON'T STOP DOING THIS :p

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... 5&sr=posts

[Herodotus]

Also, PZ ignores that ooba supported seeking a hider claim, and PZ ostensibly thinks that there are hiders. A hider claim would have meant having no RB.
(It is odd how ooba was surprised that there was a hider claim, but it may have just been because he expected the scum wouldn't have wanted the town to have such a role.)

One related thing I think suggests ooba-town is the postscript in ooba ISO 2. Gut says that the scum wouldn't want the town to be aware that the scum would be allowed to select which of them received the PR's, especially given his reason for bringing it up.

[Ellibereth]

VAS
AND MORE META FOR YOU TO DIG UP!

Have you feigned cluelessness over mechanics as scum before?

[VasudeVa]

VASSSSSSSSS
YOU KNOW I WON'T STOP DOING THIS :p

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... 5&sr=posts

*slap* Ack~! </3. (What are you calling me out for anyway?)

@Elmo: I suppose you are referring to my 'playing like lynchbait' thingie. I played poorly D1, and since I'm not on their scumteam, and since I'm a scummy townie: scum would attack me...or something like that. But ehh, Town would attack me for that too but I expect them to act with an open mind(like Herodotus here.) and totally not like Seraphim(Although, I'm having my doubts on this too now.).

Lynching me is a bad idea though. .

--prev-edit:
Oh, nope. In fact, I'm hella more clueless when I'm town since I have no scumbuddies to explain stuff to me D:

[SpyreX]

We still have 6 days or so but we really need to start laying down the law here. People, in their next post, should post the order of preference for three of the current "wagons" going right now or even better, change your vote for who you want to lynch. Game is stagnating a little and this needs to be rectified.

VasudeVa>>>>zoraster(so THAT'S why people are voting him)>>DGB

Why do you say three wagons and have DGB up there and not Ooba?

I want a real caught up post from zoraster before I delve into the pot o' three that isn't VV.

[Kmd4390]

unvote, vote zoraster

I prefer zoraster then vas then ooba of the three wagons.

[Seraphim]

There is a DGB wagon, even if it is rather tiny. 3 out of the currently available wagons...sorry if I didn't make that clear.