Mini #1022- PokeUPick(Game Over)

[Xite91]

UNVOTE: Prox

Espy, you had better start explaining yourself right now. Answer my questions dammit

[Espeonage]

Which questions?

[Switz]

Sorry guys, but I'm going to be V/LA until Wednesday or so; I'm going to be out of town for the rest of the weekend and I'm still getting settled back at school. I'll try to be online when I can but I'd rather keep expectations lower rather than higher.

[Xite91]

@ESpy - can't find them... wth? I thought I asked them. Well, they're pretty much things like explain your votes, who's scum, things like that

[Espeonage]

I did and don't know.

[Xite91]

I did and don't know.

what about the one on prox?

[Espeonage]

Well. I didn't really want a Prox lynch over others.

[Prox]

What about my question?

[gandalf5166]

Prox, any one of those claims could have been from scum. INCLUDING mine(if not for the fact that I'm confirmed) and possibly even NB's. If there were two scum teams of two each(possible in a twelve player game), a cop scan could be potentially useful to scum. Of course, there aren't enough kills, which also means hat he would have to be scummates with Xite. Unlikely, but possible. Hence why I'm considering NB confirmed. And thus me confirmed. Scum nexus is NOT hard to believe at all. Espeo, I'm withholding judgment on. Xite is possibly an SK, or maybe even scum who somehow knew that there were two scumteams and decided to turn it to her advantage. That one, again, is unlikely. So I would think SK, IF I thought she was scummy. As for me, there's not really any point in asking the question, since you know what the answer's going to be >.> But I could be scum, yes. Either a scum roleblocker, scum with a roleblocker partner, or scum fakeclaiming entirely.

Wait so which one is it, am I an sk, or am I a vig?
If you're going to throw accusations, make sure they're clear plox

I said, I think you're town. Hence vig.

[gandalf5166]

...which don't match.

Gandalf, wtf?

The point was to show how completely pointless your speculation was.

[gandalf5166]

I really need to use [/sarcasm] tags more often :/

[mikeburnfire]

TLDR Version:
Xite is most town-looking right now. Switz is good too. Nicol and Gandalf are almost assuredly on the same team, be it scum or town. Espeonage has done a lot of scummy things and I don't have a problem with people voting for him. Prox is almost definitely a Nexus, but also behaves like a scum nexus. If that's the case, then Jarti is scum too. jimfinn looks bad, and BV needs to post more. Even with Gandalf looking incredibly scummy, I'll leave him alone with Nicol's investigation claim. As it stands, Im fine with lynching Prox, jimfinn or Espeonage today.

My flavor claim is Missingno. I would have given it sooner if somebody had asked.

=========================================================

In post 34, Gandalf states emphatically that it certainly couldn't hurt to perform a flavor-claim. This was almost immediately after Nicol had speculated that flavor could be related to role in this game, and seeing as how Gandalf's flavor was connected so strongly to his role (Wigglytuff is the evolution of the popular Jigglypuff, whose most famed ability is to sing people to sleep, IE roleblock), it seems odd that he would state such a thing. If Roleblocking Wigglytuff is a fakeclaim, he hasn't created it at this point.

In post 36, Gandalf states that he is sure that we have a doc if Xite is an important role. No roles or flavors have yet to be revealed at this point, and this statement is also WRONG, from a game balance standpoint. A really powerful role would be countered by an ABSENCE of a doctor.

In post 52, Gandalf calls NB out to full claim. After Xite had just fully claimed. On post 52.

On page 14, Drmy makes his Lightning Rod claim, and gandalf immediately sets into him, calling the role unbalanced, suicidal, conflicting, anti-town, and desperate, before attacking his meta. It's an attack of large magnitude for seemingly very little.

My reasons for suspecting Gandalf are:
Parroting other players day 1
Buddying up to me (he called me 100% town yesterday)
Opinion on flavor claim that doesn't match his flavor.
Lying about the possibility of a doctor.
Pressuring other players to claim inappropriately
Being a major influence in the Lightning Rod lynch (who would have been a useful role)
Possible roleblocking of town vigilante (and subsequent setup of espeo's lynch today)
Lack of scumhunting (He's mainly just attacking people as the game progresses)

The only reason for me to suspect Gandalf to be town is Nicol's claim that his investigation turns up a town-gandalf. Nicol could be lying to protect his scumbuddy, or just had his results tampered with. Or he could, as Farfetch'd as it might seem, be the truth.

Nicol attacked Gandalf all throughout yesterday, then suddenly stopped today. If Nicol was scum, then I would expect him to continue distancing, so that's a point in his favor. The roleclaim itself is a little fishy, as there was no reason to send in a list of moves to the moderator. That part seems made up to me. Also, inventor-type is a way cool fakeclaim for a scum to make. I've done it before, and it's cool because you don't have to tell anybody what your moves do because you convieniently don't know either. It's great for making stuff up on the fly.

If Nicol is scum, then Gandalf is scum. There's no reason for scum to make up a desperate claim to protect a town roleblocker who was under heavy suspicion. That's just crazy.

==============================================

In post 47, Prox states that most abilities won't affect him as they should. He also says that he doesn't think roles have much to do with names, which fits if his name is Scyther and role is Nexus. The only role I could think of that matched this description was Miller, but Nexus also fits. If Prox is lying about his role, then he had it planned from the start, and either got very lucky that another Nexus didn't exist, or had prior knowledge. I believe his role-claim whole-heartedly. I'm not sure about his alignment, though. A role like his benefits from remaining hidden, as he has the potential to bounce a mafiakill back at them. However, he hinted at it early and often, almost like he wanted us to drag it out of him. I can see a mafia-nexus doing this, as it makes him seem extremely valuable to the town (an unkillable townie!), but also gives him an aliby when he doesn't die quickly. It also helps keep cops and vigs at bay (he even stated in his second post that his role would mislead scans). So I really do believe his role claim, but have serious doubts on his alliance.

=============================================

Espeonage just looks like a bad player in general. He voted Gandalf, and getting his reasoning was like pulling teeth, but he DID eventually give it. Also, with regards to the Day one speedwagon, Prox voted Espeonage without a case and was subsequently voted by Nicol, Gandalf, Xite, and Prox. I jumped in and said to stop. I still think I made the right choice. All other active players (4) were rushing onto the wagon, and their reason for doing to was because Espeo had not given reasoning for his vote. While such an action might be suspicious, it's not uncommon for a Day 1/Page 3 action, and I personally believed that the wagon was growing to rapidly.

Near the end of day 1, he said that he had a drmy-town read, but the very next post he was willing to hammer. Then he hammered. The next day he called it a "deliberate mislynch". There's absolutely no way I can pretend that this is a pro-town action. Now he's playing in a survivalist mentality, voting anybody who looks like they could be the potential lynch instead of him.

I started off defensive of Esp because I thought he was being speedlynched for a terrible reason, and that gandalf was just taking advantage of an easy lynch, but I'm done now. He has done nothing to redeem himself, and I believe it's entirely possible for him to be scum.

==============================================

Post 144, Vezok basically admits to not paying attention, and votes Gandalf without reason. This seemed like distancing to me. Later he would also make that "I am scum" slip. Also, throughout the day it seemed like he was a worthless asset to the town at best with his terrible posts. Frankly, I'm surprised he flipped cop.

===============================================

There's not much to work with on the topic of Jarti. He doesn't have many posts, but his actions basically boil down to voting switz, giving up, voting gandalf, giving up, and voting jimfin. His most recent post asserts that he believe the nexus claim, and also that he's fine with the claim because it complements the lightningrod. If we lynch Prox and he turns up scum, then we should look at Jarti as well.

===============================================

Jimfinn is another player who doesn't give me much to work with. He votes DMSIS for voting Xite, even though DMSIS said we weren't going to lynch him. This is hypocracy, as Jimfinn was doing THE EXACT SAME THING. In the morning he was against an esp lynch, but doesn't really try to defend him. And yeah, his directing of Xite recently is suspicious, especially considering that Jim didn't really believe him yesterday.

===============================================

Like I said, I doubt that Xite lied about his kill flavor. If he's mafia or SK and claims Day 1, it's because he wants to pretend to help the town with his kill. It wouldn't make sense to forfeit his kill, especially since he was given a blank check to kill whomever he wants from a list. He could be lying about having the ability to kill, but that would be crazy to announce that you could on Day 1 with no intention of doing so. I believe that Xite is telling the truth, but was blocked.

===============================================

Switz seems to be playing fine enough for now. BV needs to do more.

===============================================

[Espeonage]

This is why I rarely replace in to games.

[mikeburnfire]

We're going to kill you, Espeonage, but don't worry too much. I would rather lynch someone who is a less important member to town than a potentially more important member which could swing the game towards scum.

[Espeonage]

I can agree with that. I actually think my flip will be useful. I'd rather we lynch scum but my flip will benefit town.

[mikeburnfire]

I was being sarcastic, but please elaborate. I'm curious as to how you believe sacrificing yourself benefits the town.

vote: Espeonage

[Espeonage]

Well I would rather you all wait until I can clear myself but that doesn't change the fact that when I am confirmed town be it through NAs or lynch this game should be breakable. There have been enough close interations for us to break the game open once either I, gandalf or Nicol habe been confirmed.

[gandalf5166]

In post 34, Gandalf states emphatically that it certainly couldn't hurt to perform a flavor-claim. This was almost immediately after Nicol had speculated that flavor could be related to role in this game, and seeing as how Gandalf's flavor was connected so strongly to his role (Wigglytuff is the evolution of the popular Jigglypuff, whose most famed ability is to sing people to sleep, IE roleblock), it seems odd that he would state such a thing. If Roleblocking Wigglytuff is a fakeclaim, he hasn't created it at this point.

In post 36, Gandalf states that he is sure that we have a doc if Xite is an important role. No roles or flavors have yet to be revealed at this point, and this statement is also WRONG, from a game balance standpoint. A really powerful role would be countered by an ABSENCE of a doctor.

In post 52, Gandalf calls NB out to full claim. After Xite had just fully claimed. On post 52.

On page 14, Drmy makes his Lightning Rod claim, and gandalf immediately sets into him, calling the role unbalanced, suicidal, conflicting, anti-town, and desperate, before attacking his meta. It's an attack of large magnitude for seemingly very little.

34: Well yes, but Wigglytuff's signature is NOT Lullaby. Jigglypuff's is. I figured that most of the roles had been made like that, just a little different from what would be expected.
36: I've already explained this. Would mafia potentially waste heir kill by killing a role which would almost certainly be protected?
52: I called him out to flavor claim, not full claim lol.
page 14: I set into him before that........ >.>

[mikeburnfire]

I'll grant you #34 (Bulbapedia confirms it). For post 36, you are missing the logic. You say that if Xite is a really important role, then we will have a doctor, which is contrary to the logic in game balance. Post 52 I will also grant you. Your defense for page 14 is an OUTRIGHT LIE.

Also, there's still all that other stuff I listed which causes me to suspect you. Even excluding the forcing-Nicol-to-claim part and flavor-claim-doesn't-match-flavor part, the following is still true:

Parroting other players day 1
Buddying up to me (he called me 100% town yesterday)
Lying about the possibility of a doctor.
Being a major influence in the Lightning Rod lynch (who would have been a useful role)
Possible roleblocking of town vigilante (and subsequent setup of espeo's lynch today)
Lack of scumhunting (He's mainly just attacking people as the game progresses)

when I am confirmed town be it through NAs or lynch this game should be breakable. There have been enough close interations for us to break the game open once either I, gandalf or Nicol habe been confirmed.

How.

Even if you prove your role, it can still be a mafia role. And even if you're town, Gandalf can also be town. We gain no real information from your death unless you are scum.

[Espeonage]

How can it be a mafia role when there are no VTs?

[mikeburnfire]

Gandalf's the one who said we had no VTs. It's still unconfirmed speculation. And your "It's too worthless to be a mafia role!" is WIFOM because that's exactly what a mafia member would want us to believe.

[Espeonage]

K it's wifom but seriously use common sense.

[mikeburnfire]

Okay, let's ignore your role for now. How do you explain this:

Near the end of day 1, he said that he had a drmy-town read, but the very next post he was willing to hammer. Then he hammered. The next day he called it a "deliberate mislynch". There's absolutely no way I can pretend that this is a pro-town action. Now he's playing in a survivalist mentality, voting anybody who looks like they could be the potential lynch instead of him.

[Espeonage]

Policy would be the lay man's term. But it is more complicated than that. It was to do with pro-town not anti-scum.

[NicolBolas]

I'm back. Catching up. I will post tomorrow.