Open 236 - Pamplona Mafia (C9++) Game Over

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 3.05

Not voting: ekiM, Netlava, Prox, The Fonz, yabbaguy

With 5 alive, it is three to lynch.

Deadline is September 19.

[Prox]

Am I really doing that bad? We aren't even at a part where I get called out anymore.

VI? Ouch...Maybe I've gotten worse over time..?

Considering replacing out.

[Netlava]

Prox, what do you mean by attacking "not-Netlava." It isn't clear what you mean.

[The Fonz]

Seriously, Prox, what do you expect? You've made next to no effort in this game. If you're town, that makes you my team-mate. You've not put a fraction of the effort into this game that I have, and so if you're town, the rest of the town has every right to label with every uncomplimentary mafia epithet under the season. In any game or sport, it sucks to have a team-mate who isn't willing to do the minimum necessary to hand his side a chance to win, and yes, it does piss people off. I've seen you posting in GD and the goddamn TITLE FAIRY while we were waiting for you to claim in the MC. That's just disrespectful. This is a mafia site, and your first priority when online should be ensuring you are UTD with your games (how many have you got, btw?)

The best I suppose that could be said for you is that you haven't gone and fake-counterclaimed a town power role or something else equally game-destroying. This game has had far too many town players doing jack shit to try to help their side, and I'm absolutely sick to the back teeth of it. Any reservations I may have had about taking a pretty long break from mafia after this game have been utterly demolished by your play. I've just had enough of the kinda bs which is all too common, if even your 'participation' in this game is an extreme example. Heck, you're not even playing badly. You're not playing AT ALL.

And I still don't know why you wrote 'Not-Netlava' when you apparently meant 'Netlava,' but it's probably moot, at least it's the beginnings of a stance. You can understand my utter disbelief there though, surely?

Basically, though, Prox, it's like this. With newbies who try to pull the 'Oh my gosh, I'm so out of my depth, I don't even know where to begin so I'm going to do nothing,' line, it always ends one of two ways. One, the newbie continues playing the newbie card to avoid contributing and gets lynched. Two, the newbie actually relents and gives some thoughts and feelings, and might or might not get lynched. Your call. Replacement is the coward's way out.

Also, could you explain the difference between D1 and now? I mean, you were willing to attack al over his random vote. Now you're not willing to make a case on anyone with three day's worth of posts and seven flips at your disposal?

[The Fonz]

Oh, and: @yg: Prox is at least as easy a target for you as Netlava is for him.

[yabbaguy]

Why can't Prox be scum? VIs can be scum too, and if you recall, I have consistently found him scummy (and no, it's not bussing). Why are you instantly coming to the conclusion that he's town?

You are putting far too much faith in someone who *has* done scummy things, like swinging the pressure between multiple people far too quickly. I am not pushing a VI mislynch. Prox is scum. You are baselessly calling my attack baseless.

[yabbaguy]

V/LA over, but with school around the bend, my activity's still on speculative status.

Noted. ~~NS

[The Fonz]

Why can't Prox be scum? VIs can be scum too, and if you recall, I have consistently found him scummy (and no, it's not bussing). Why are you instantly coming to the conclusion that he's town?

I don't know whether this is deliberate twisting of what I've said, or you've just misunderstood on a quite catastrophic level. I have never suggested for a moment that I believe Prox to be town. How could I: he's not done one single protown thing all game that I can recall. If he doesn't make at least the vaguest semblance of an effort, I'm quite comfortable with lynching him on the 'guy it would be most embarrassing to lose to' principle. The point I've been making throughout is

that I just cannot tell if he is scum or simply one of the worst players in the history of the site.

You are putting far too much faith in someone who *has* done scummy things, like swinging the pressure between multiple people far too quickly. I am not pushing a VI mislynch. Prox is scum.

You are baselessly calling my attack baseless.

Now this last I find hard to see as anything other than a direct lie. I have never called your attack baseless, it's a perfectly fine case to make. Prox is scummy. It's just also a case that yabbaguy, Netlava's partner, could make with ease to run up an idiot townie who's incapable of defending himself, in order to win the game for scum. It's a hell of a lot easier than trying to run me up. It's also (this is not quite as likely as the town or NL-partner explanations, but I've done it plenty in the past) that Prox is your partner, and you've decided to bus him in order to get town to rule out the yabba-prox pairing, especially after being called out for scumbuddy-seconding him. Prox is scummy, but so are you, and Netlava may well be more scummy than either, given that I've found evidence of him playing a million miles better than this as town. I think there's a very high possibility that he's acting lurky/no original content/opportunistic deliberately because half the town were doing it so he could get away with it.

yabba, if you're the other townie, right now you're not helping by strawmanning 'I think he's scummy, but so are others and I'm not yet convinced he is scum' as 'I'm convinced his town' and 'That's an easy case for you to make as scum' as 'that's not a valid case to make as town.' I'm not saying you're doing it deliberately, but what you're attributing to me isn't close to the positions I'm actually taking.

Would you care to take a look at the Netlava meta I mentioned and see if you agree or differ?

Also, ekiM, some confirmed-town analysis would be super-awesome.

[yabbaguy]

I haven't had the chance to view NL over vacation, I've been short-posting (not to say "crappy-posting") from my mom's iPhone on vacation, so I haven't had the chance to view him in-depth. However, remembering him voting shotty (notwithstanding the fact he threw the hammer) without putting him on his scumlist in the immediate span of time before then does strike me as a potential scum move.

When I swung at you with the "baseless" remark, I was irked by the fact that you were calling me someone just pushing a mislynch (or your prior theory: I'm scum and I'm bussing my partner). That's why I lashed out. I actually thought I had made a good case, and when someone calls it "scumvenient" (does anyone still use that word?), that's the opposite of that IMO. That's what I perceived it as. I was reading a bit more quickly than usual, I'll admit.

I perceived you as taking a Town stance on Prox because of your passionate plea of him to actually do crap. Usually, I see people do this when they think someone is VI-Town, and that's why I perceived you as taking that stance. Here I'm incorrect because it's more an issue of you keeping the Prox-town possibility open.

Sorry for my overuse of parenthetical statements (not that you noticed, I'm sure), I'll try to cut them down in the future.

[Netlava]

I had been suspicious of shotty for the majority of the game. I was just unsure how to handle his claim. Plus, the hammer isn't more or less scummy than any other vote on that wagon.

Also, about the meta thing, hindsight is 20/20. It should become clear enough eventually.

[yabbaguy]

Plus, the hammer isn't more or less scummy than any other vote on that wagon.

Hammer should have no additional responsibility, you're right, but that isn't the issue.

I was just unsure how to handle his claim

Then why did you vote?

[Netlava]

Because shotty was being scummy, and I needed to know if he was scum or not. Plus, I was leaning towards him as my last suspect.

[ekiM]

Is there anyone who feels like lynching Netlava would be a bad idea?

[The Fonz]

Because shotty was being scummy, and

I needed to know if he was scum or not

. Plus, I was leaning towards him as my last suspect.

Why would you even think of lynching for info at mylo?

[Netlava]

It's quite clear what I mean. I think dr was just as good of a choice as any.

[yabbaguy]

It's quite clear what I mean. I think dr was just as good of a choice as any.

Automated Voice: Invalid answer. Please try again.

[Prox]

Sorry, I just assumed that everyone agreed that Netlava was scummy.

But I do see what you mean. Inaction may be better than bad action, but it's a bad action in itself. I'll post an attack later today, and put more thought in who I think is the other scum.

I really don't want to drag anyone down..

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 3.06

Not voting: ekiM, Netlava, Prox, The Fonz, yabbaguy

With 5 alive, it is three to lynch.

Deadline is September 19.

[The Fonz]

It would be super-awesome if Prox would answer the questions asked of him.

[Prox]

Also, could you explain the difference between D1 and now? I mean, you were willing to attack al over his random vote. Now you're not willing to make a case on anyone with three day's worth of posts and seven flips at your disposal?

Redundant.

[The Fonz]

Nuh-unh.

[yabbaguy]

Happy to swing the vote considering the remark of "the hammer isn't the scummiest vote" is somewhat true but doesn't nullify the fact that the vote itself was scummy and that we've hit a wall. If I lose to NL's logic, NL has only himself to blame.

Vote: Netlava

[Prox]

And...there's the first vote.

vote Netlava

[yabbaguy]

Unvote

Wait.

[yabbaguy]

That hurts my mind so much. My Prox/NL theory is starting to crack with that rapid vote. If that's right- that last vote Prox slammed down was a bussing vote. I'm finding it very difficult to believe he'd do it in such a rash fashion.