Mini 1045: M&L:BIS! Game Over

[jimfinn]

VOTE: Katsuki that avatar disturbs me.

Meta note: Every time DMSIS and I play in the same game, one of us will be largely responsible for the other's lynch. It just always happens.

[jimfinn]

I just think that preexisting mutual distrust ought to be known by the group as a whole.

[jimfinn]

The cupcake is cool, but that is one creepy teddy bear.

[jimfinn]

Decyfer Down is one of the greatest bands on the planet!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF6fwr4Yxiw

[jimfinn]

EBWOP: My avatar is their most recent album cover, hence the relevance.

[jimfinn]

Let us assume for for the sake of negation that Katsuki is truly Mario and is a town-aligned role. The role of Mario in this game would likely be a PR. Any person with any knowledge of the flavor ought to assume that. Therefore, to claim Mario without full-claiming would likely draw a NK, which would cause the death of one of the town's PRs. Therefore, no pro-town player with any common sense would possibly perform such an action. Katsuki is most likely scum, and even if town, a better policy lynch than DMSIS because Kat has already performed a blatantly anti-town action.

[jimfinn]

Katsuki, how about you start by responding to my proof by contradiction and explain how your partial-claim can possibly be pro-town or even remotely resembling thinking logically?

Preview: ninjaed by mothrax

[jimfinn]

Care to explain the quick OMGUS vote swap to the player who started your bandwagon, scum?

[jimfinn]

By quick, I mean the first post after the vote count that made you realize you were nearly at lynch, in which you promptly voted the first vote on your wagon. I'd call that a crappy attempt to divert suspicion, scum.

[jimfinn]

If you used that reasoning to vote for him, why no vote on him in the post where you analyzed him? And why is your reaction "eep!" that sounds like scum afraid of a lynch.

[jimfinn]

Eep is only a scumtell in the sense of "eep, I'm about to get lynched, let me hurry and vote the person who started my wagon who I already claimed was scum but didn't vote for." Which is how I read it. That line of thinking is very scummy.

[jimfinn]

Your avatar might be a cupcake, and if you keep scumslipping like that, this town will eat you alive!

[jimfinn]

SC, I think you misunderstood my comment about getting a PR killed by nameclaiming in post 71. I was saying that Katsuki would probably end up getting

himself

killed by nameclaiming, and since he is most likely a PR (given his nameclaim), drawing the NK would cost the town a PR.

[jimfinn]

EBWOP: What do you mean you know this is not going to end well? That's a rather suspicious statement - how could you know something was not going to end well?

[jimfinn]

I have a response to DMSIS, but I'm not going to say it til SC responds.

[jimfinn]

Because I don't want to tell SC what I'm thinking about his statement until he tells me what he's thinking - I don't want to color his response with my thoughts.

[jimfinn]

Isn't it standard for a mason to claim his partner in case one is killed, so the other becomes confirmed town? I'm not fully sure of site meta, but I would think that it would prevent just anyone from saying they had been his partner.

[jimfinn]

Well, it is scummy if you do something that gets a PR nightkilled, regardless of whether that PR is you or someone else. Given the mason claim, it is not as bad as it once was (Doc Mario should definitely not even claim Mario, same for Cop Mario)

And anyway, I got the impression from your comment about knowing it was not going to end well that you could be a scum who could use that ominous statement on D2 if Katuski is lynched as town (when his lynch appeared imminent) to say "I told you we shouldn't lynch him" in an attempt to earn town points.

[jimfinn]

Katsuki-scum most likely saw the softclaim as a reason not to lynch

[jimfinn]

scum often believes in a survive-another-day mentality.

[jimfinn]

No I am saying, for Mario to be a VT is unthinkable for flavor reasons. Most PRs (I used Doc and Cop as examples) would be hurt by softclaiming. The Mason role for Mario, however, still makes sense flavor wise, yet doesn't self-harm as much by claiming.

When I say "in an attempt to earn town points" I'm addressing how SC's statement is potentially scummy (I'm trying to picture what scum-SC might be trying to do in his post that I am calling into question)

[jimfinn]

I'm suspicious of SC, but you are still my primary suspect. Your reaction to the wagon on you certainly had the feel of a flailing scum.

[jimfinn]

We're pushy because we've found scum and are ready to lynch him. Join the wagon Shotty. You're the #2 wagon anyway, because people want to policy lynch you for being you. That's unfair.

Now you are being really pushy and threatening me.

If he flips town your ass is dead

unvote
vote: kat

Well most of D1 was spent discussing "lynch Kat yes/no?" This post strikes me as a bit off by DMSIS, in particular the part I made red. It sounds like it could be the action of a scum who knows Kat is town and is trying to set up a second lynch and emphasize to everyone that he is not responsible if kat is mislynched. For this, I am going to VOTE: DMSIS.

[jimfinn]

I did see Gandalf's "soft" claim before I voted him. It was exactly as it has been described, a soft claim with roughly the softness of of a brick wall. When you make so blatant a soft-claim, you are asking for other people to notice/point out your claim, which rather defeats the purpose of a soft-claim. Therefore, I felt it read more like a scum trying to set up a fakeclaim.

As for those who believe the interactions between myself and SC were the reason for SC drawing the NK, isn't that a really WIFOM-y argument? Couldn't it be said that the scum would kill SC so as to frame me? Or even, since SC did some of the most in-depth analysis on D1 with his multilink post, that he was killed for his apparent skill at the game rather than anything game-specific?

[jimfinn]

yes, I did mean to write DMSIS. Sorry, dumb mistyping. I shouldn't be posting between practice and dinner, apparently lol.

In case the mod missed it,
VOTE: DMSIS

[jimfinn]

I explained why I found his softclaim to be a rather scummy attempt at setting up a fakeclaim, rather than a valid softclaim. I'm going to leave my vote on for now, unless DMSIS explains satisfactorily why he tried really obvious but not flat out say he was a cop. If you're going to claim that blatantly, you should full-claim and anything else is strange.

[jimfinn]

In consideration of the character of DMSIS, I would agree that the claim could be either town-DMSIS or scum-DMSIS, now how about the D1 post I highlighted. Any opinions on that? That was the main backbone of the case, the softclaim response is tacked on.

[jimfinn]

What games have you played with DMSIS?

[jimfinn]

EBWOP:Just wondering how much meta you have

[jimfinn]

And we don't have a Vig anymore....

Oh well, I'm going to

unvote

for now then based on increased knowledge of DMSIS meta and see if we can get some more info. Re-reading to try to get another read on someone else.

[jimfinn]

Case on Calcifer

We're pushy because we've found scum and are ready to lynch him. Join the wagon Shotty. You're the #2 wagon anyway, because people want to policy lynch you for being you. That's unfair.

This statement is encouraging DMSIS to join the Katsuki bandwagon. It is a very direct and personal statement mixed with an appeal to emotion. It sounds like a scum possibly trying to get another person onto the bandwagon for an easy mislynch.

I am Mario, the mason sibling.

Something interesting happens if I get NK'ed. Does not apply to lynch.

Where's Luigi to defend this claim?
"Something interesting?" Is it like, bad or what?

Rolefishing, as already pointed out earlier by other people.

I would rather Calc lynch, but I hope that was not a soft-claim for Luigi.

SLIP! If you were a mason with him, you would know who Luigi is!

unvote, vote Katsuki

FINALLY

something that makes an ounce of sense against Katsuki.

UNVOTE: Calcifer
VOTE: Katsuki
Goodbye.

THAT, my friends, is rolefishing at its finest. Trying to out both Mario and Luigi at the same time. XD
Goodbye, Katsuki. And really? Mason brothers? That's about as bad as claiming Beloved Princess.

Someone drop the hammer on this sucka'. He'll flip scum fo' sho'.

Demanding that someone hammer Katsuki now and expressing confidence in his scum-flip. A very aggressive scum pushing for someone to hurry up and lynch this mason before the real partner shows up, perhaps?

For these reasons, I
VOTE: Calcifer

[jimfinn]

@gandalf, I am not saying that your refusal to vote was meta-based, I'm saying that I was more suspicious of his claim until you told me about his meta, which makes his claim less unthinkable. I didn't realize what level of play we were dealing with.

[jimfinn]

For the love of Pete! Wow holy crap I was rereading and stopped when I hit this third post thinking I had a solid case and started writing it

unvote

Too many C-names. I was think CMAR died for a second. I am so tired today. New analysis tomorrow or later, I apparently can't think today.

[jimfinn]

Apologies to everyone, I'm on 5 hours of sleep or less for almost two full weeks and I can feel myself losing focus. I did a partial reread and saw a case, but didn't read far enough to see that the person was dead. I feel dumb. Will reread tomorrow or later when I feel alive.

[jimfinn]

I am Dr. Toadley's Assistant, Nurse. I knew that the doctor had been killed, and I was active, but I forgot who that doctor had been due to lack of sleep. I was thinking it had been CMAR. Saying that the NK implicates me is very susceptible to WIFOM. My claim means I will likely be killed tonight, but this will force the scum to use their NK on me, preventing them from using it on a stronger player.

[jimfinn]

I did see Gandalf's "soft" claim before I voted him. It was exactly as it has been described, a soft claim with roughly the softness of of a brick wall. When you make so blatant a soft-claim, you are asking for other people to notice/point out your claim, which rather defeats the purpose of a soft-claim. Therefore, I felt it read more like a scum trying to set up a fakeclaim.

As for those who believe the interactions between myself and SC were the reason for SC drawing the NK, isn't that a really WIFOM-y argument? Couldn't it be said that the scum would kill SC so as to frame me? Or even, since SC did some of the most in-depth analysis on D1 with his multilink post, that he was killed for his apparent skill at the game rather than anything game-specific?

Boogity!
Where the heck did anyone imply the above?! Sounds more like paranoid scum to me. But voting a cop claim is a daring move that I don't believe any intelligent scum would partake in. Therefore I don't vote you. I put my

Penis of Suspicion

on you!

yes, I did mean to write DMSIS. Sorry, dumb mistyping. I shouldn't be posting between practice and dinner, apparently lol.

In case the mod missed it,
VOTE: DMSIS

The above was implied in post 205 by Mothrax. I responded to it.

[jimfinn]

@mod: CMAR just voted Framm, unless I'm still sleeping.

[jimfinn]

No case, dramonic? You're going to name a three man scumteam without giving any reasons? Really?

[jimfinn]

ITT dramonic has a grand total of 14 posts. Little-to-no analysis. Saying x is scum or y is scum without much justification of his own. I would like him to at least make a case if he wants to accuse me or anyone else.

[jimfinn]

What is that supposed to mean, gandalf?

[jimfinn]

So is your high degree of content. Oh wait....

[jimfinn]

Darn you DMSIS - I really am the town nurse!!!! Now we're probably out of PRs because there is no one to protect you tonight!

[jimfinn]

DMSIS, follow the cop only works if the nurse/doctor is unclaimed. If attempted with both outed, the nurse dies one night, then the cop the next and only one investigation is gained. That's a small benefit for missing out on the chance to lynch scum.

[jimfinn]

WE ALREADY KNOW THAT!!!! THAT WAS WHAT STARTED THIS, DMSIS!!!

[jimfinn]

So basically the entire case around me revolves around a few posts I made while overtired, and a NK WIFOM? Seriously?

[jimfinn]

I stand corrected. My case rests on a rather unstable tripod: overtired posts, NK WIFOM, and playing outguess the mod. That's so much more convincing!

[jimfinn]

So why did you claim to investigate CSL?

[jimfinn]

If it were anyone but you, I'd be screaming to lynch all liars, but your playstyle is rather odd at times, and you are the one person who just might do that.

[jimfinn]

I'm seriously starting to think about whether we should disbelieve the cop claim and vote him anyways. A claimed cop has no reason to hide anything and no incentive to lie.

[jimfinn]

EBWOP: Ninja'd

[jimfinn]

Well, how about this then
VOTE: dramonic
If we lynch him and he's town, DMSIS is scum. Either way we get a scum.

[jimfinn]

Why is it a two scum game, DMSIS?

That's an odd thing to say. Are you one of them - is that how you know how many?

[jimfinn]

DMSIS, stop confusing us by lying about your investigations!!!!! For the love of Pete, every time we start to act on one, you tell us it's the other!!!! I voted dram realizing that since we just told you not to lie, we could assume you were telling the truth or were scum. In which case voting dram nets us a scum.

[jimfinn]

unvote

disgusted by DMSIS

[jimfinn]

@mod: i am voting dramonic

[jimfinn]

wtf man!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! God I put him L-1!!!
Mallow +123012983 scum points for you!
Let him claim and talk at least three posts before a hammer!
God Fucking Damnit!!

This is either clear evidence of not reading the thread or the worst hammer-fake in the history of hammer fakes. I can't decide which, but either action is scummy. I'm starting to disbelieve his claim enough that I'm willing to abandon the plan of lynching dramonic to test DMSIS's claim and just lynch DMSIS. After all, if DMSIS is faking the cop claim as scum, it'll put us at LyLo with 2 scum still unknown.

unvote

VOTE: DMSIS

[jimfinn]

Rereading CMAR to see what Framm is going after. I'm here, and Framm, a case would be nice.

[jimfinn]

Well, the living players haven't been particularly active, so it's hard to make a good case on anyone really. I just read every living player in ISO and here's the number of posts for each

Framm:17
CMAR:20 (and about 12 of them without any real content).
mothrax:20
dramonic:28
gandalf:42
CSL:50
me:57

I feel that CMAR is the most scummy at this point, and here is why (summary in regular text, analysis in italics)


Post 0: RVS
1-3: more RVS/jokes/fluff
4: avatar discussion
5: Katsuki is angry.
6: what are your reasons, Calcifer?

first thing that resembles content, and only asking another player for an opinion, not doing anything of his own

7: it is not too early to lynch scum

notice he is doing no scumhunting of his own

8: I don't like quicklynching and there's not much content yet

notice he has no content still of his own, but is complaining about everyone else

9: clicks suicide
10: Katsuki ought to explain why she softclaimed

First real content question, and still no real case, just a vote for Kat

11: Mallow is not Luigi/Mason

CMAR-scum possibly setting up a bit of N2 NK WIFOM (If you all think Mallow is mason and he dies, but I didn't think he was a mason, I wouldn't have killed him, would I?)

12:fluff
13: why did mallow put Kat at L-2

trying to remind us that he DOES NOT BELIEVE mallow is mason

14: scum would not vote a cop, so jim is likely not scum, on the other hand, he's paranoid and responding to non-existent accusations, so he might be

the accusation I responded to really did exist, so CMAR may not have been reading the thread

, CSL is not clear, gandalf is scummy and looking for an easy lynch, Framm is looking for an easy lynch and sheeping, CSL and dramonic are also scummy, I suck, gandalf is trying to hammer a claimed cop (really me a claimed doctor)

Something resembling real activity. Lots of accusations. Nearly every player alive is scum. But he basically just finds a reason to accuse a large number of players willy-nilly possibly trying to see which mislynch is most viable.

15: Framm is scum trying to act protown, wants mafia to kill him, corrects my claim

again accusing Framm quickly, and asking mafia to kill him may make it sound like he is exasperated protown, which would be the image a scum would want

16: Framm, dram, and gan are all idiots. He hates us all.
17: accuses gandalf of saying that people shouldn't make cases but just vote for a claimed doc

possible misrep, possible legit case

18: If he were scum with me he would not defend me this much

self-admitted WIFOM

, town shouldn't lynch me, Framm should stay

because he's being manipulated well by CMAR?

, dram and gandalf are arrogant and tunneling, respectively, accuses CSL of waffling and points out a bit of NK WIFOM with SC's kill.
19: claims that only he and mallow have reason.

The final story of the numbers: 20 of 416 total posts <5%
Real content in his posts: roughly 5 of them
CMAR is scum, no vote yet due to possible LyLo

I propose an FoS count among us and only realvote if someone is lynched in the FoS count to prevent quickhammers. One FoS per player. When someone is at 4 FoS's, all players should vote for them.

FoS: CMAR

[jimfinn]

I already claimed.

[jimfinn]

DMSIS first claimed cop with an innocent on CSL on D2 (it was a day start), then changed his claim to guilty on Dram, then continued to change it back and forth between the two claims for the remainder of the day. After he was hammered, he said that CSL was his real investigation, IIRC.

[jimfinn]

Mothrax, do you believe then that dramonic, gandalf, and I are all scum?

[jimfinn]

Rereading Day 2, a handful of people seemed to think mallow was Luigi, including Dram. If he is lynched and flipped scum, that's another possible reason why mallow was killed over me (killing the conftown)

[jimfinn]

No, when I said that we would catch scum either way, I was ruling out the possibility that town DMSIS was lying about his claim. Therefore, either dramonic was scum or DMSIS was lying scum (since at that point I was thinking he was really claiming to have investigated dramonic). I abandoned the plan when DMSIS changed his claimed investigation yet again, since I was now more open to the possibility that DMSIS could be town and still giving us an incorrect investigation claim. After more and more waffling, I couldn't reconcile DMSIS's play with the cop role at all anymore.

[jimfinn]

I saw no reason to believe he hadn't really investigated dram, until he waffled his claim again. Judign by his softclaim second post, it could be inferred that either was his investigation

[jimfinn]

Robo, the case isn't against you but rather against your predecessor's actions, so it may be difficult for you to defend yourself. That said, there are three scum, so theoretically we could try to catch the other two first and watch robo's actions today and tomorrow.

[jimfinn]

I hadn't realized how long it had been since I had posted until I received the prod. I had a race friday night, a quizbowl tournament saturday morning, and went to a football game saturday night, so time slipped away from me a bit, but when I got the prod, I realized it had been longer than it seemed.

[jimfinn]

I was reading one of my other games when the prod arrived.

[jimfinn]

I'm not feeling the gandalfscum vibe quite so much. I still like Robo as my #1, but since he's offlimits for today, I'm inclined to reread dram and mothrax.

[jimfinn]

Robo, see 489

[jimfinn]

No, I'm saying to give you the chance to show us why your slot is not scum, lets try to find the other two scum and see whether he plays protown.

[jimfinn]

Y'know, Gandalf's argument against cases and his hammer insistence was scummy after all VOTE: gandalf

[jimfinn]

definitely the most fun game I've played so far! I nearly died when your name disappeared from the browsing list right after I voted, but you were still here.

[jimfinn]

We really did think Mallow was Luigi and that was the reason for the N2 kill.

[jimfinn]

N1 was a best-player-alive kill, nothing to do with his suspicion of me

[jimfinn]

If I didn't make that mistake while nearly asleep at the keyboard, I would've been more or less in the clear, but a few long real life days really turned up the pressure on me.

Also, apologies to Katsuki, I'm not really that mean, promise, but it was all part of the game.

[jimfinn]

gg Framm, well played (especially on concealing the mason)