Mini 1046 - Murder in the Desert (Game Over!)

[xvart]

vote: boberz

xvart.

[xvart]

I'm on my iPhone. That's a beautifully disguise omgus vote though, I must say. Also I commonly make two separate posts anyway. If you doubt me, o the sign up thread an see. Thanks

Huh? What about the sign up thread will provide the meta on posting twice? And how is that relevant?

VOTE: xvart

If his performance in our last game is any indication, RVS might be my only opportunity to vote him the entire game.

Haha. I'll take this vote as a compliment.

How about we just never enter it, shocking idea. And everything should be geared to finding scum. I have no objections to RVS wagons though.

I can't believe I'm even going to enter the discussion about RVS, but how in the world do you find scum when nobody has posted anything? Actually, don't answer that because it isn't really relevant and since the thread is five pages long already I hope to god we aren't still discussing the validity of RVS on page five.

He ended RVS? I am taking credit for it.

People who go out of their way to say they ended RVS are inherently scummy; because it is a pretty well known fact that ending RVS is pro-town, so people falsely assume that people that end RVS are town, or at least those that lay claim over ending RVS are just trying to score town points for invalid reasons. And why are you taking credit for ending RVS now when you already gave credit to Slaxx?

I had a bunch of stuff about Bob's contridcitions about RVS and his votes, but I see Parama already covered it in his massive page two wall.

My vote on Slaxx wasnt random it was thought through, although granted he may not be scum.

Hmmm... sounds like a serious vote on someone who may not be scum. Possibly scum voting a townie but leaving him a way out if the lynch goes through? At the very least, you have voted for something that isn't really justified.

*hops*

Unvote, vote: boberz

You're going to have to better than that; especially considering your previous posts.

Because they don't have a contrived looking back and forth. Why am I supposed to think one of your scenarios instead of mine? It looks like you're trying to pull something out of thin air here. Why do both of your pairs have Boberz and not Slaxx? Do we have it wrong, and Slaxx is scum and Boberz is not? Else I don't see why you're complaining if I'm voting for Boberz, and he's in both the pairs you listed. Really not seeing the problem.

I approve and agree of this post.

xvart: One vote, no explanation. No relevant game material/discussion.

Chillax much? Your post reeks of trying to make the motivations of those people who have only posted once or twice in the first twelve hours of the game to be scum motivations. Care to elaborate on your intentions in calling us out?

To sum up: my vote on Bob is staying. Slaxx is suspicious.

xvart.

[xvart]

Posting later tonight. Gotta catch up on four pages of posts.

xvart.

[xvart]

Catching up as I read the last four pages. Some of this might be a repeat.

For the last time, its not Meta. Its just how I post. Check the signup thread, I know there is at least one instance where I posted one thing, read up, and a few minutes later decided to address another. Mini normal cue, go. He tried to pass it off as a scum tell by saying I was scared to address people. I am not intimidated by players as town or mafia.

I don't understand this. Are you being accused of being scummy based on your double posting style? Why do you continue to justify it by saying look at the sign up thread? Is a sign up thread posting style a good indicator of alignment when compared to in-game posting styles?

Right now I am thinking along the lines of possibilities and I have gathered these possible scenarios:
Boberz/Weapons as scum + Bud as town (Pretty evident why this is a possibility if you go back and read the thread)

If Bub is town in this possible scenario then why do you immediately vote him in the next post? Are you voting for someone you think is likely town?

Also I have been on the defense quite a lot so expect a decent post from me detailing FoSs, maybe a town tell or two, and whatnot by the end of the day.

Scum have more need to focus on defending themselves than town. Town can defend themselves by actually hunting scum.

It was when he accepted my explanation but stayed on my wagon. That's what I've said time and time again.

Why are you so concerned about this when you are not the leading bandwagon?

---

Second Allegded example: who ended RVS? Firstly it doesnt really matter, it was just in response to somebody claiming that RVS votes stopped RVS and crediting Slaxx. I take credit for it, but I credit Slaxx for 'poking and prodding those who are trying to play properly' which helped get us out of RVS. (But I did it first).

how do you expect to ever move on from the RVS if you do not poke and prod those who are trying to play properly (I credit you with that Slaxx).

It is clearly me giving credit where credit is due rather than crediting someone with ending RVS.

For someone who says it doesn't really matter who ended RVS you sure go out of your way to say three times that you were responsible for it. Do you think people that "end" RVS are always town?

---

Just fyi, I believe boberz is at Lynch -1.

Bub, if you find yourself thinking that sort of thing 5 pages in and it's not about a newbie, you're probably wrong.

For the people asking for content: Lowell is looking townish and it should be evident why if you think about it.

At the time of this post, you had been asked by at least two different people to explain your blatant bandwagon and you still didn't answer here. Why?

You seem confused. I clearly stated what I was doing when I changed my vote.

Oh, you mean the *hops*? So you admit you just want to bandwagon without care or concern?

Face it, Oso, bandwagonning is awesome. Unless I have a good reason not to, I always put down the fifth vote on berz in that situation. Pressure, pressure, pressure.

Why didn't you say this the first time? Also, the fifth vote? Not the fourth? Is the fourth vote not a bandwagon? Is the sixth vote to late? You make zero sense here.

---

@xvart, is your av from The Wheel of Time?

Yes. The darkones luck.

---

Xine - are you saying that if bobz is scum then one of Slaxx, Parama, or DH is his buddy? Wouldn't the appropriate vote go on the person you find scummy and not one of the three probable scum buddies?

Parama
Yes, assuming that bob is scum, I would think it not unlikely that one of the three original attackers would be his buddy, it’s called distancing, and a pretty common play.
The reason I voted you not him…I found a likely team, and put my vote on the one who is not hovering around L-1. I’m not ready to jump up on such an advanced wagon on my first post.

Not a good answer. You are voting for someone that is not the most likely scum in your opinion because you are afraid to put the most likely scum in your opinion at L-1?

Boberz seems to be getting pretty tense by now. Every answer he gives creates more questions. He is contradicting himself heavily, and claiming that he is not doing so, in a rather defensive way.
For now,

I see bob as pretty scummy

, with one of Slaxx, Parama, or DH as his

buddy

, probably Parama, because he seems hyper defensive too.

This implies that you want to lynch boberz first and then one of the three you mentioned as his buddy, btw.

It also suggests that your case on the three possible buddies relies on Bobz, but you won't be able to determine that if you don't know Bobz flip. Your vote is on a case that you don't have full evidence of at this point.

---

I am awesome incarnate, so that is not shocking.
I want everyone to give 3 scum reads and 3 town reads in their next post.

Possible scum: Xine, Bobz, and Slaxx, with an honorable mention to CES.

---

Oh, and I'm not leaving you at L-1.

Unvote

Still my top suspect, but I'd rather no one quickhammer. I gotta look over some things first.

Scummy scummy scummy. Why are you afraid to leave your top suspect at risk of lynch? Either you and Bobz are both scum and you are trying to derail his wagon or you are scum and he is town and you are trying to get off the wagon. Which is it?

---

Bub - for the love of god please do not insert text responses inside quotes. It makes it impossible to read and even more impossible to reply to.

That's a textbook definition of OMUGUS.

No, it is not.

---

Being afraid to vote your top suspect, regardless of whatever reason, while voting someone else less scummy is a very strong scumtell.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Xine

With that said, Xine: say for a second we did lynch Parama today and he flips town. Would you then want to move on to one of the other two people on your suspected scum list based on bob still being most likely scum. See, unlike you, bobz alignment as scum is only strengthened by you flipping scum, so I am voting you.

xvart.

[xvart]

Xvart is flying under the radar somewhat also.

Please elaborate on how I am "flying under the radar."

You're going to have to better than that; especially considering your previous posts.

This was a bit hypocritical because at this point xvart had added nothing to my wagon other than agreeing with others that I was discussing theory and had made contradictions.

1

He had said nothing of anyone else, other than throwing a wishy washy point on slaxx and fosing him in the very same post.

2

He does then go on to scrutinise slaxx however.

For someone who says it doesn't really matter who ended RVS you sure go out of your way to say three times that you were responsible for it. Do you think people that "end" RVS are always town?

This is the sort of comment that was a bit dodgy. He had earlier moaned at me for being too theory focussed and now tries to draw me back into this discussion. I felt this was done a few times by a few people. It is as if he is trying to make me look scummy, rather than assess whether I am scummy.

3

Xvart also spends a large amount of time over quite

4

1

Other than in the same post right before this quote I stated my reasoning for keeping my vote on you, which others had not mentioned yet. It should also be noted that the post you are referring to was my second post of the game, so I apologize (not) for not having a solid set of reads down in the first 23 minutes of the game. And since my second post came nine hours later your attempt to call me scum fails. My second post (the one in question) was my first real observations of the game, ten hours after it started.

2

I actually haven't FoS'ed anyone this game, but I'm sure that's just semantics since I called him suspicious in my second post of the game for insinuating that non posters in the first few hours of the game were scummy.

3

Once again, you'll have to look at post time. When I posted I was catching up and my original comment about people claiming responsibility for ending RVS are just looking to score town points and therefore scum, was still true, since after my second post where I explained that line of thinking, you mentioned it two or three times more, which is what I pointed out and asked about. So, what is the point of continuing to take credit for ending RVS after it has obviously ended? How does that help you find scum?

4

Can you finish this thought, please?

---

At the time of this post, you had been asked by at least two different people to explain your blatant bandwagon and you still didn't answer here. Why?

I just looked it up and I can't find any questions addressed to me between the vote and post 108. And the original vote-post is fairly self-contained in terms of what it means.

How about this one; and this one (although technically those weren't questions but I believe the intention was clear).

Why didn't you say this the first time? Also, the fifth vote? Not the fourth? Is the fourth vote not a bandwagon? Is the sixth vote to late? You make zero sense here.

I didn't think it would be necessary to mention it as it should be self-evident, really. Also, there were 4 votes on him at the time; I would've gladly put on a fourth or sixth vote but that's not how the world works, my friend.

But you did mention it. You said: "[you] always put the fifth vote down on bobz in that situation", which is an intriguing comment since it doesn't really make much sense at all, since you were blantantly old school bandwagoning without concern. If you would put the fourth vote down or the sixth vote, why did you need to specifically say you always put the fifth vote down? Did you mean to say you just put down whatever vote it happens to be as long as it is the leading bandwagon?

xvart.

[xvart]

EBWOP (forgot to copy from another tab):

-At xvart, I was but not anymore. Yes, its a good indicator of my posting style, in game or out of game. I don't change my typing style in a game. That whole vote on me was a huge reach anyway at best. Also reread my ISO. That is NOT the way it happened. That was an unvote... Yes you are right, they do, but that is why I am posting my ISOs and opinions now. Your last quote is lulzy...So I can';t bring evidence on him if I am not the mighty crusader of his wagon?

Are you referring to my last quote of you? Or the last quote in general. I assume the latter, at which point I would further explain that I don't see the reason to continuously try and undermine the stupid argument about your posting style when you were in no danger of being lynched. If it is so stupid (which it is) why the incessant need for rebuttal after rebuttal after rebuttal? I see that as possibly scum trying to make sure it is clear to everyone that that the alleged scumtell of double posting can never be used again.

xvart.

[xvart]

Please elaborate on how I am "flying under the radar."

Doing a scattering of vaguely suspicious things without attracting much attention (positive or negative) around yourself.

And I'm flying under the radar because nobody has called me out on these so called vaguely suspicious things? That makes me scummy that others aren't commenting on my vaguely suspicious intentions? Or is this just a way to make you more town because you are finally calling me out on my vaguely suspicious tendencies when nobody else has?

1/ It was several pages into the game, and other people were coming up with original points and ideas. If it was too early in the game for you, then it was too early to be calling other people out on it, that was why I considered it hypocritical.

So I needed to post original content in my very first post of the game instead of posting my original content nine hours after the game began?

2/ Granted there was no official FOS that was my mistake. But he still held that second position on what I considered a slightly wishy washy point. But as I went on to say you did go on to scrutinise properly so I do not have much of a problem with this after all. But it was one of the things that made me look closer at you.

I didn't understand the connection to the next sentence. But I don't understand the accusation of being wishy washy and then saying I follow up with the proper scrutiny? Isn't that a little wishy washy?

3/ you successfully avoid the point here. I am suggesting that you drew me back into theory something that was used to smear me. You are not the only one guilty but it is this rather than the specific RVS discussion I have issue with. Since you ask about the RVS ending howerver; I originally claimed credit because credit had been given to someone else and I was slightly shocked and worried about the extent to which the thread had been misread, I only went on to discuss it further when it was questioned attacked etc... I refute that I pontificated over the issue with no cause. I was under attack so responded to the points my attackers made which included RVS/ending thereof.

Okay, I'll go back and check the references I had questioned.

4/ Yes, sorry. I was suggesting that you spent a long time over relatively unimportant things, I would include the discussion of RVS but for a different example:

Why didn't you say this the first time? Also, the fifth vote? Not the fourth? Is the fourth vote not a bandwagon? Is the sixth vote to late? You make zero sense here.

I think it is obvious he would have put the fourth (maybe not the sixth) but any bandwagon vote in, it just happened to be the fifth. It is actually quite obvious, I frankly dont believe anyone who misundestood CES there and it was just a useless point to be making. (this goes for all your bandwagon discussion of CES there)

You don't find the statement about placing a very specific vote on a bandwagon just because he wanted to bandwagon intriguing in the slightest? I find comments like this worth at the very least a minor line of inquiry. I don't see why someone who is admittedly bandwagoning just for the sake of bandwagoning would specify a particular vote on a bandwagon. There was obviously an intention behind the comment, and I'm trying to parse that intention out.

xvart.

[xvart]

I didn't say you were suspicious for flying under the radar, I merely requested that others dont let you fly under the radar. Please don't start misrepping me.

You may not have said it but the implication was clear. I don't often see people being called out for flying under the radar when the poster thinks the person is town. And the observation you made about me doing vaguely scummy things seems to be some roundabout way of calling me scum without actually flat out calling me scum.

But it is the fact you made a hypocritical statement that I dont like. I am not commenting on whether you did or did not contribute at that point or later. but at the point you were criticising others you had also done nothing.

I don't understand the hypocrisy. I was telling him to chill out since he was calling people out for not posting nine hours into the game. I didn't say he wasn't posting and therefore scummy.

I am acutely aware I may be stepping on CES' toes here and I dont want to take away a line of inquiry for you or anyone else. But you included three quotes on this and made a fairly big issue of it when (as far as I am concerned) his meaning was obvious.

That's just the way I do things.

xvart.

[xvart]

That's just the way I do things.

But you just said it was a minor line of inquiry. You either make it a fairly big issue or it was a minor line of inquiry. It cannot be both.

Nice try. I said: "I find comments like this worth

at the very least

a minor line of inquiry." I never said I was pushing it as minor or halfhearted. And, it is what I do regardless of how minor or major something may be. I like to poke and prod at things that don't sit right with me, especially on day one, and see how people respond, explain themselves, etc. I actually get a lot of information from prodding at what others might find as minor or inconsequential, because a lot of times people aren't setup to respond to something they may think is so trivial.

I don't understand the hypocrisy. I was telling him to chill out since he was calling people out for not posting nine hours into the game. I didn't say he wasn't posting and therefore scummy.

You're going to have to better than that; especially considering your previous posts.

you were not telling him to chill out, you were calling him out on not providing enough content.

Woah, another blatant misrep. I did tell him to chill out, and I did not call him out on not providing enough content. Here's the quote for your reference:

xvart: One vote, no explanation. No relevant game material/discussion.

Chillax much? Your post reeks of trying to make the motivations of those people who have only posted once or twice in the first twelve hours of the game to be scum motivations. Care to elaborate on your intentions in calling us out?

xvart.

[xvart]

Fun fact: I'm not reading the boberz-xvart argument

I sensed people weren't. Why not? There might be something revealing in it.

I think it is because a lot of people already suspect you of being scum so they don't need to read your spectacular misrep of me in defense of Slaxx.

xvart.

[xvart]

So... did he just hammer himself?

xvart.

[xvart]

Good points all around the table.

DH, WOMD, what do you guys think about Xine or Oso/Socrates?

I think 2 out of Xine, Boberz, and Oso/Socrates are last scum, but I have to be honest, I am least suspicious of boberz. I will probably read more thoroughly this weekend.

Why Oso/Socrates? This is the first time you have even typed Oso's name. What happened overnight? You think the good points all around (about boberz) is only enough to make him the least suspicious of your scum grouping?

D1 scum reads on Xine and boberz are still solid (and getting more solid as D2 unfolds). Once we get a vote count I'll be voting either one of these. Anyone opposed to a speed lynch?

xvart.

[xvart]

Thats why I told PArama to read Oso in ISO.

Also xvart, if you're not going to read my posts, then don't bother talking to me. I mentioned Oso yesterday and told Parama to Iso him.

whoops. I ISO'ed boberz instead of you on accident. Withdraw the accusation. More later.

xvart.

[xvart]

Alright well I thought about the third question and realized thats probably what happened but I wanted to see if you came up with that answer instead of me correcting you and giving away the answer.

This isn't sitting well with me at all. You asked a question, then realized the answer was probably obvious, but decided to ask the question anyway to see if Xine would come up with the same answer that you had not yet thought of? I'm smelling scum Xine trying to clear scum Slaxx as a strong possibility in this statement.

I do not think Xine is the optimal lynch today. If Xine is actually a tracker we can use that info, even if Xine is scum tracker. If Xine is faking tracker to try and get a counterclaim then maybe Xine will "track" someone that actually has a movement of some sort and will be outted that way.

xvart.

[xvart]

A mafia tracker in a mini normal. Speculate more.

Probably a bad example, but I was more leaning towards a scum claimed tracker (regardless of if it is scum tracker or just a totally fake claim) won't be too difficult to catch later on. My point was either Xine is town or going to be easier to catch later on.

As opposed to answering it for her which would make us...what, less scummy? If I answered it for her wouldn't that make it more likely we were scumbuddies?

No, you're missing my point. Your timeline doesn't really fit with what you are saying. You said that you asked the question and realized after asking it what the answer was going to be. Then you say you asked it to see if Xine would say the same thing you came to the conclusion of. This doesn't really sit well and your thought processes seem faked since Xine answered you in four minutes, and you responded three minutes later. In fact, despite what I originally said, I can see scum defending a town member this way, too.

Vote: Slaxx

xvart.

[xvart]

1. I post the question
2. I thought about what I asked and what I would expect her to say as town/scum and realize the town answer is obvious
3. She says the response that makes sense in a real tracker's mindset (Voting me because I softclaimed PR when she had a NV on me)
4. Even though the answer is obvious it wasnt what I was expecting from her as scum so it makes me rethink things (Yes that was a stab at her playing strength)

I dont get the fakeness.

What fakeness? I think what I was possibly misreading was the time line. I read your original post as you asked the question to check to see if she would provide the town response you had in mind; which was confusing since you said didn't realize the question was so obvious until after you posted it. That, in addition to the rapid fire responses, made it seem like you were falsely justifying the reason you asked the question to begin with.

Unvote

So you think there are 4 scum? How common is this for 12 player setups?

Where did you get this suggestion?

Cool.

I claim vanilla townie if it matters.

Why did you feel the need to claim now? This is interesting since it comes right after talk of directing the tracker.

xvart, what do you think of WOMC?

Slightly scummy. I had a fairly neutral read of him until he claimed VT out of the blue. I want to know why he claimed and why he claimed at that point in the game.

xvart:

-Voted Xine, not Bub
-Definitely a read that has changed for me. Bub and xvart ignored each other the entire day, and out of all the stuff xvart addressed, he never once addressed Bub's wagon. He addresses Bub's posting style, and Bub jokingly answers back, but other than that, no contact is made. This doesn't bode well for Xvart, and I am pretty sure he isn't townie any more. I just fail to see how someone who took time to address almost everyone conveniently left out the day's biggest bandwagon that happened to be scum. Bub also failed to acknowledge xvart at all either.

Probable scum

. Bye bye town read.

Vote: xvart

.

I wasn't on the Bub wagon because I never really thought he was scummier than the people I was most suspicious of. In all honesty, without rereading back I really don't remember why everyone thought Bub was scummy.

Partly because it seems like he had been keeping tabs on WHO FoSd Oso (even if he didn't do it well). His tone is almost defensive and frustrated in the post.

It's not that I keep tabs on FoSes, but rather I pay greater attention to people I think are likely scum. When reading your post and thinking about your suspect pool I didn't recall you saying much about Oso previously. I then ISO'ed the wrong person and saw Bobz hadn't said anything about Oso, and posted that about you. If I was trying to build a phony case just to get you lynched then I did it very, very poorly; but I'll leave that judgement up to everyone else as to whether or not I would be so flagrant about phony case building.

---

I'm starting to lean back towards lynching Xine. I'm going to read Boberz, Xine, and WOMC again before I replace my vote.

xvart.

[xvart]

206, @Slaxx "If Bub is town in this possible scenario then why do you immediately vote him in the next post? Are you voting for someone you think is likely town?" That's incrediscummy seeing as how Bub was scum. He sets up an attack on Slaxx regardless of Bub's alignment. Wondering how I missed that, and now I see his post is like 3000 words so I never read it.

The "attack" on Slaxx has absolutely nothing to do with Bub's alignment. It has to do entirely with questioning someone who says someone is town in one post and in the very next post votes that person. That doesn't seem right to me, which is why I questioned it. Are there times when the protown play is to name someone as town and then vote them? Can you explain the circumstances that might warrant such a play?

xvart.

[xvart]

weapons just got lucky his role PM bailed him out.

Hrm?

I just noticed bub was a roleblocker. tracker claim looks worse.

Hrm? How does the roleblocker flip make the tracker claim less credible? Your response in 558 makes no sense.

I think we can get Weapons to vote for Xvart, and Socrates if he wants a prayer of not being lynched tomorrow. There will be enough town cred left for one more person, who is going to get it?

Nice one. Threatening someone you think is scum to get some town cred by voting a town member? If Socrates is scum he is not going to vote for me since he would know I'm town.

And yes Xine, that is the gist of the case on Xvart.

The gist of it? lol. That's the entirety of it. Way to allude to how such a flimsy case has more hidden underneath that "gist" abstract.

Xine, it was an unvote. Not a vote. I unvoted him. I said he was town then unvoted him.

Yes, this is correct. For some reason I am having a terrible time reading your posts and conceptualizing them.

Xine, its the fact that Xvart mage gifrigginnormous posts that addressed multiple people but conveniently never mention Bub, or rather never acknowledged or took a stance on the wagon.

So if I make big posts on multiple people I must also do so on the wagon getting the most attention? Like I said, I never saw the obvious scumminess in Bud; but I also never thought he was shining gold town. I had no opinion on him and didn't care if there was a lot of attention on him. I was focusing on the people I thought were most likely scum.

There are also slightly incriminating links that Charter and I have pointed out between them. Sure scum? Hell no. Bad Coincidence? Probably not.

So your case has "slightly incriminating" evidence (or circumstantial evidence) but it probably isn't a coincidence? Where's the disconnect? Do you feel my scumhunting on D1 was scummy?

---

Boberz - you said you were becoming "quite suspicious of bud" here, but did not vote him and then later say you had another post that never showed up with some other piece of information for the case on Bud and your vote. What was that piece of information. I would think you would want to provide all information about your highest suspect to help convince others to join the wagon. You said you would rebuild that part of the case, never did, then couldn't remember what it was.

Also, Boberz - why did you not immediately vote me out of the gate D2? It seems I was the second likely scum in your opinion D1 and I don't see anything that would change your mind about me being scum with the overnight events.

Going back to the NK, I still can't wrap my head around why CES was killed. He wasn't really on to anyone but was still considered scummy by many. He would have made a perfect mislynch. It doesn't make any sense, and since he didn't ever build a case I'm wondering if the most obvious town people were to close to nailing the other scum and didn't want to draw even more speculation attention to the cases being built.

Vote: Boberz

xvart.

[xvart]

There is absolutely no use to talking about why CES was killed. Absolutely none.

Of course not. Scum killing an easy mislynch the next day is fairly typical practice.

Seriously, you're starting to talk more and all it does is detract from the scumhunting. Bad dog, no biscuit

lol? And such solid, accurate scumhunting it is. I will grant you that the case against me might be solid if there was more actual legitimate evidence supporting very circumstantial evidence and I hope to god that at least one scum is pushing my wagon because tomorrow it is going to look totally stupid that you lynched me based on what you have.

He's also posted significantly less than everyone else.

Chalk up another solid scumtell to my case. The fact that you are attempting to add to the flimsy case on me makes me think you are more likely town and trying to justify your spot on the wagon and not just scum jumping on to get a mislynch. But after your post about how scummy everyone wagon target is, I'm not so sure.

I am straight up vanilla. Tomorrow take a long hard look at Slaxx and his reasoning for pushing my lynch. Then Boberz.

I'm sorry for not being more pro town today. I've been slacking in all of my games but work has been hell. Good luck town.

Unvote
Vote: Slaxx

xvart.

[xvart]

I'll also add, not that it will probably help since it is "self meta", that if you think I avoid my partners and am stupid enough to completely avoid a scum buddy I actually have no problem bussing my partners, and bussing them hard. As scum, I will sell my partners out so fast to get a leg up in the game for my team. Completely avoiding is not an option for me as scum.

xvart.

[xvart]

An attempt at mafia humor, and it's face is spat in by the circumstantial seriousness of Mr. xvart. Oh, the humanity.

Lynching town is only humorous to scum...

xvart.

[xvart]

Remember Xine, if xvart flips scum (I am about 80% he will) track Soc. If he flips town then track random.

Remember this when I flip town (even though Slaxx is 80% sure I will) and Socrates does not get tracked.

And why aren't you so sure after I said that every wagon has been the product of someone looking scummy? Which was common sense, almost obvious and comical to even talk about.

I meant to say that every wagon is because the people being wagonned were so "freaking" scummy. Like scummy beyond a doubt. SO FREAKING SCUMMY. Even Slaxx, the engineer of my wagon, says my case is based on a solid coincidence.

Lynching town is only humorous to scum...

Because any of those people that were wagoned were confirmed town, right.

Oh, you say they aren't? Now wasn't that foolish to say in the first place.

I was referring to me getting lynched and how that is humorous to scum being that I am town; not to all the other wagons that were on people that were so freaking scummy as I do not know for certainty their alignment.

xvart.

[xvart]

Actually, if we are going on relationships, interestingly enough, reading Oso/Socrates and Slaxx it appears to me to be typical scum nit picking stuff on each other that will never lead anywhere. Here Oso switches a vote because his vote on CES isn't going to go anywhere but he switches to Slaxx (who has no votes at the time). Slaxx keeps pestering Oso for providing no content, another thing that will not lead to a lynch on D1, or at least not at the time without further scummy behavior.

Added to the fact (and this won't be obvious to everyone else until after I flip) but Slaxx could be directing the tracker (if Xine is town) to investigate Socrates, but only if I flip scum (I won't). If (when) I flip town the direction is random so it is plausible that Xine could watch Socrates anyway but unlikely given the direction. Another safe bus since he is on record trying to direct the tracker to follow Socrates.

Personally, I am much more suspicous of people doing typical scum D1 bussing that won't go anywhere than someone that never mentions someone that flips scum. But again, I'm biased I suppose. He also has made the comment that Oso is scum but never really followed up on it (but Oso is scum if Slaxx dies in the night, something he knows won't happen). This situation is also perfect WIFOM for scum if Oso is actually town, and could frame Oso if town Slaxx is killed (which he wouldn't be).

ISO Slaxx and you'll see how many times he says Oso/Socrates is in a group of possible scum, with no real supporting reasoning.

Anyways, after I flip, lynch Slaxx. If he flips scum, then take a harder look at Socrates. Their behavior reeks of scum distancing.

xvart.

[xvart]

I'd be more than happy to lynch Socrates today too. Town's choice.

Of course you would. But why if you have him in a neutral read in your last ISO post update and you have 80% chance of scum in me?

xvart.

[xvart]

You were my only scum read in my ISO, so the I started making connections with you to other players. I clearly stated that if I had to give two remaining FoSs it would be you and Oso, for individual reasons and actual connected reasons.

How nice of you to unvote me when I apply pressure to you, and even nicer that you offer to lynch Socrates whom you've been suspicious of most all game (for reasons I can't seem to find) but recently said was a neutral read.

Oso is third scum in case I die tonight. Not that I am an optimal kill anyway. I will wait for bubs claim.

I think 2 out of Xine, Boberz, and Oso/Socrates are last scum, but I have to be honest, I am least suspicious of boberz. I will probably read more thoroughly this weekend.

Oso/Socrates:

-Seems frustrated about RVS ending early in first post
-Next 2 posts offer no content
-Next 3 posts make excuses for not posting content
-Completely ignores Bub and Bub wagon, never even comments on it except to ask a question to Parama which seemed to have a pretty obvious answer. Almost reads like "Uh....look guys! I acknowledged the wagon, see? I am not ignoring it but NO I will not take a stance on it".

Help me out and point to that? I've been going over Bub's posts. Some of them are big and I probably missed something you didn't.

^-Where he asks Charter to point out Bub's scumminess (Either buying time so he doesnt have to be on the wagon or just hoping it gets looked over).

@Parama, If I read your reasoning correctly, you think that Xine FOSed a scumbuddy and voted a townie. Then bub came in chainsaw defended a scumbuddy as well?

Pretty much the same exact thing.

Socrates, however, seems a bit more town than Oso, or at least a more inconspicuous scum. Honestly, I am not for sure about this read anymore. Probably

neutral

for now. I have read over Socrates ISO but I am not for sure I need more time to kind of make connections and process what he is saying and his stances on people.

Note that the last quote is the first time Slaxx has actually presented reasons for suspecting Oso/Socrates, and this is when he shifts back to neutral. So I'll ask the question more clearly: why was Oso/Socrates scum prior to this post? Now Socrates is possible scum due to connections with me but not the previous reasons you never provided before? I can't seem to find anywhere where you post anything resembling a case or level of suspicion of Oso/Socrates up until your ISO of him this game day.

xvart.

[xvart]

Oso was scum d1 because he was scummy. His reads were scummy and he was deflective. He posted little to no content, and when he did it didnt seem genuine. I expressed concern by telling Parama to Iso OSo and see what he thought.

He was scum because he was scummy? Solid read there. What about his reads were scummy? What specifically in his little to no content posting were you able to decipher a scummy intent? And since when does asking someone their thoughts equal calling the person you are asking about scummy?

Pretty clear to me. Idk what your problem is bro.

My "problem" is that Oso/Socrates seems to have always been scum based on a relationship to someone else. You have never pushed for Oso/Socrates other than if someone else is scum despite being scared that Oso scum was going to kill you at night.

Also, I recall you unvoting me after I put you under pressure. So what we've got here is called hypocrisy.

I wouldn't call you putting pressure on me in the timeframe you are speaking. I removed my vote after you clarified a misread/misconception I had about something you posted. You corrected something in my justification for voting you, which made my vote invalid at the time.

xvart.

[xvart]

A couple of pages ago Xvart tried the "oh well, sorry i'm not being more helpful, good luck town" quasi-quit for sympathy. The last two pages he sees a glimmer of hope and his tone has slowly changed. He's a good lynch.

Yes, this is accurate. I haven't contributed a lot today and I didn't mention Bud hardly at all. There was nothing I could do about that and since I was vanilla I had no false expectation of getting out of being lynched. Then Slaxx posted this nugget and everything came rushing to me so I went back and checked it out.

The gist of xvart's defense is WIFOM and meta from what I can tell.

d(''d)

=====[]

Actually, none of my defense is WIFOM; but I did throw out some observations of what I had been constantly thinking about when thinking about mafia over the last week. My defense is how scummy Slaxx is and how he is the optimal lynch.

Don't worry, I shall speak to you tomorrow from beyond the grave. At least we (and by we I mean everyone else) lynched scum D1 so we are ahead right now. Slaxx, you might as well hammer me because you will either be lynched today (if my wagon falters) or tomorrow (when people read what I'm saying in the context of my confirmed flip). You not so subtly get off the wagon you orchestrated, which is the most damning piece considering the context of your unvote.

Slaxx - You seem to be pushing this connection between Socrates and I. Is Socrates more likely scum based off of my flip or am I more likely scum based on Socrates flip?

xvart.

[xvart]

I'm not for sure about xvart anymore. No need to possibly waste two lynches.

Why are you not sure anymore?

xvart.

[xvart]

In addition, the unvote thing is ridiculous. Why? Because clearly I have a good enough case on you to lynch you. Only one more vote other than me to the hammer. If I was scum all I would have to do is convince one more person, and there are plenty left, that you were scum and bam, mislynch

But the question is your case clearly strong enough to lynch me and not get yourself lynched tomorrow, which is why I think you backed off. But I also love how you are playing up the fact that you are now not on my wagon so you are one of the deciding factors in whether or not I get lynched.

What I am trying to say is as scum you should have been appealing to me because I was the one who held your fate, but instead you just nonchalantly passed it up and continued to scumhunt and fine connections for tomorrow. If it was fake it was impressive, or maybe I am just that much of a fool.

You only "held my fate" after you unvoted me. And, is my scumhunting on you now legitimate compared to my only "convincing" scumhunting yesterday?

I so guessed xine was an alt (I know nobody would believe me but I really did think he was scum

Xine isn't an alt (unless a very elaborate one lol ). Xine and Ythill are married and I think she just forgot to log out/log in on a home computer. Or at least that is how I read her post.

Just to add some more fuel to the Xvart fire, I've played in like two or three games with him, he was town every time, and he didn't play like this at all. I'll try and dig them up...

Compare D1 play in those games you provide and I think they will fall in the realm of similarity. Like I said, I've been slacking in all my games because work has been a bitch the last couple of weeks, and I would be happy to explain why my play has been lackluster in all my games but I never put much stock into RL reasons (which is why I haven't yet). If you do compare D1 play in those games then the next logical step is to ask if scum xvart would be so demoralized by his scumbuddy being lynched that he would stop producing.

xvart.

[xvart]

Xvart, lets play a game. If we did lynch me today, and when I flipped town (cuz I am), who would be your new set of FoSs?

I'm not willing to hypothesize on something I doubt to be true; especially if it will give you more information on who to kill tonight.

We had 17 days today...How many have gone by...8? I can't vote myself out of pure dignity and possible game rules, but I really don't mind being lynched because I know this is going to come back to haunt me.

Wow. How very town of you to offer yourself as a sacrifice for the town's benefit when you have how many votes? Wait for it.... ONE vote.

Slaxx, if you know you're town, what the hell can come out of you wanting to lynch yourself?

Exactly.

#501, I claim. What would you all do in my situation?

Were you at L-1?

I missed this before dinner, so I retract my wtf. I get the reason for suspicion after this point, though I am not quite with it. xvart, why did you post the night kill speculation?

Because I was going to go back and look at the pro town people and who they were most suspicious of and see if they had a thread in common. Off the top of my head based on the top three scum reads everyone posted the day before I believe there to be a common denominator of either boberz and/or Slaxx (hence the vote on boberz). I never went back to do this because I was dropped with Slaxx's tracking comment which made me go back and look at him more closely.

Well, if xvart is town which I keep feeling more and more, then his lynch would be the death of me, if not tomorrow, surely the next day.

Why surely the next day? If you are so sure that you will be lynched when I flip town and you manage to not be lynched tomorrow, why would you be lynched the following day? Or are you just playing the martyr role up as much as possible?

Slaxx's attitude about the Xvart wagon is hard to parse, and I think it would ultimately be a fruitless endeavor. If he is scum and truely believes that a xvart lynch would make his death inevitable, then derailing the xvart wagon is really the most reasonable long term strategy for him, but if he is town and his scum read of xvart truly is waning, then it would be hard for him to do anything else in good faith and he is caught between a rock and a hard place. I am going to stick with my previous read of him and say he is town.

Then why hasn't he picked a side? Why am I scum one minute and possible town the next. The way I'm reading his posts is he got off my wagon when pressure built on him and softly calling me possible town while still also pointing out my scumminess as someone else takes his place on the wagon.

The response to this is simple. Xvart is the third person TODAY to have been put at L-1, so why would scumXvart feel that his death would be inevitable? Furthermore, if he WAS to talk his way out of being lynched, the most viable way to do so is to spin a wagon off onto another player, i.e. you.

I thought my death was inevitable because I am a vanilla townie and if common D1 practice is to lynch VTs regardless has any bearing on D2 play why would I not be lynched? I didn't talk about the flipped scum D1 and that appears to be pretty damning evidence in this game. My whole startup against Slaxx was an attempt to get the town to think about him when I flipped town. Not being lynched was just a bonus. I also think you're overstating the wagon I've built on someone else since there is no wagon other than me and people aren't bailing on my wagon to come to Slaxx.

Slaxx - why aren't you voting for Socrates now?

xvart.

[xvart]

Xvart, play my game. Please

Explain to me the purpose of your "game" when it hinges on you flipping town and even if it didn't how it wouldn't help scum decide on optimal night kill targeting?

I'm not voting today. We're lynching me /

So as town, why would you not vote who you think is scum for informational purposes after you supposedly flip town?

So, xvart somehow has fewer votes than last time I checked. huh.

And how does this make you feel in greater detail and why?

Slaxx: No, I cannot give a solid opinion on Xvart. I have been going round and round with myself over it, and just stays neutral. perhaps If I could find some time to do some meta research on him I could find a real stance. as to your other question, I am addressing scum reads now, my only solid town read is Parama.

Have charter provide those games he was talking about (I know at least one of them is completed) and compare my D1 play (and my play in general). I think you'll see my play in my town games is strikingly similar.

I never denied softclaiming power role. I dont think I did. I did it to draw in the night kill so you guys wouldnt waste a lynch on me. But now you guys should because I think xvart is town, so its better to off one townie than two.

The problem with you championing your own lynch to save town me is that you don't consider what's going to happen if you do in fact flip town. More than likely, if you flip town, I'm going to be in hot water tomorrow for derailing my wagon and championing a town lynch. What's the difference now that makes you want to be today's lynch? You championing your lynch is only town at face value; but the fact that you aren't thinking further ahead just adds to your scummy nature. AND, what kind of information are we going to get about the people on your wagon if you are saying to lynch you? Your

ploy

"plan" is very shortsighted.

Like I said, a lot of its coming from my gut. Maybe its the fact that all 3 wagons today have just been so fast. Everyone hopped on the xvart wagon pretty fast. I know there could be bussing, but I find it unlikely when there are so few scum left.

What do you mean so few scum left? There is exactly one less scum today than yesterday.

So what makes you think town then. Reasonuhreasonuhreason

In this post Slaxx tries to not so subtly get people to think I'm scummy even though he "thinks" I'm town.

xvart.

[xvart]

Just answer the question, I don't see why it matters. Everyone else has outted town reads and scum reads and some alternate reads if certain players flip town. Why won't you just answer? Explain to me how it WILL after pretty much half the players here have made town and scum lists.

Exactly; I don't see why it matters and I see more of an advantage for scum to know my alternate scum reads in the unlikely event you flip town. The point is about me specifically, if you do flip town, I am a lightning rod tomorrow and my reads will give much more information for an ideal NK tomorrow than anyone else.

Honestly I don't have any scum reads right now. I have to reread because I am missing something.

What happened to your scum read on Socrates? Why did it erode?

So what makes you think town then. Reasonuhreasonuhreason

In this post Slaxx tries to not so subtly get people to think I'm scummy even though he "thinks" I'm town.

By asking someone to give a case on why you're town? What is WRONG with you? I am trying to extract thoughts from Xine.

Why do you care why they think I'm town if you think I'm town?

Usually it means the town is right, since you don't have scumbags fueling the wagon and there's always clueless townies in every game.

False assumptions galore.

I'm looking into and rereading something I thought of so I should have more a little later or tomorrow.

xvart.

[xvart]

Good luck town. At least scum was lynched D1 so we are not that behind with my lynch. Since I'm still allowed to post I'll go back and see if I can dig some stuff up before the noose tightens.

xvart.

[xvart]

First, I find it particularly intriguing that Slaxx, who self proclaimed having no scum reads and a town read on me voted me when he knew Parama would hammer.

xvart.

[xvart]

The irony here is that you are demanding me to give

alternate

FoSes on a hypothetical when you won't even provide

actual

FoSes on the current game state.

xvart.

[xvart]

EBWOP: AND, you were just the catalyst for lynching one of your town reads.

xvart.

[xvart]

Slaxx - I've got three questions for you; lucky for you, they are essentially all the same:

Slaxx - You seem to be pushing this connection between Socrates and I. Is Socrates more likely scum based off of my flip or am I more likely scum based on Socrates flip?

Slaxx - why aren't you voting for Socrates now?

What happened to your scum read on Socrates? Why did it erode?

So... why did you cause my town read hammer when I started asking about Socrates again? Why did you neglect to ever answer anything about your Socrates read?

xvart.

[xvart]

You connect my vote to that when you are posting like 5 different questions every post? Come on.

My read on everyone is town. But someone has to go.

Nice deflection; but I've been asking the question for several days now and you never answered it. And I didn't realize five questions in a post is too demanding. You had a scum read on me and Socrates; you explained why you had a town read on me; but never why you all of the sudden also had a town read on Socrates. That isn't important information to know? Aren't question pro town?

xvart.

[xvart]

I really don't care what justification you fabricate to vote a town read of yours, and since I don't buy your whole "someone has to go" when there were nine days left in this game day I'm going to postulate on whatever I wish. Why did it take you so long to say that about your Socrates read?

xvart.

[xvart]

xvart, if you're town, you'll out an alternate theory. We wont even consider it until I am dead.

Answer in this post:

The irony here is that you are demanding me to give

alternate

FoSes on a hypothetical when you won't even provide

actual

FoSes on the current game state.

xvart.

[xvart]

Expected/10.

Not voting for Slaxx tomorrow.

Expected what? My lynch? Then why weren't you on it?

No xvart, that isn't a fucking answer for Christ's sake if you flip town I am going to develop a hernia.

Now you think I'm not town?

Xvart.
Top 3 scumreads.
Right now.

Slaxx
Socrates
WOMC or DH

xvart.

[xvart]

Why answer Parama and not me?

Because you are asking me for reads

based off of something hypothetical

(you flipping town). Parama asked for my

current game state reads

, which is exactly why I said it was ironic that you were demanding hypo reads on a hypo situation when you have no reads at all in the current game state.

xvart.

[xvart]

Good game, all. Fun group. Thanks for the compliments on my play, Oso, at the beginning and post game. I don't feel like I did so well, which obviously lead to my lynch that day. It really is amazing how lurking for a couple of days can really derail any town credibility you might have... I can't remember what I said before my lynch, but when I first suggested looking at why CES was NKed and voted for Boberz I was planning on going back and building a case on boberz with the CES being supporting evidence (then I just didn't have it in me and nearly resigned until I jumped all over Slaxx.

Slaxx - I'm actually surprised you caught no heat whatsoever about my lynch the following day. You just seemed to really break down. It's probably a good thing I did die because I would have gone ape shit the next day trying to get you lynched, which would have been extremely distracting to the rest of town.

xvart.

[xvart]

By the way, Nic and I are modding a large normal soon, so if you liked his modding/flavor, you should hop on in our game.

How large? I don't think I've ever played a large normal. And what do you mean by "soon"?

xvart.

[xvart]

I am sorry I made a case on you xvart, but Ive said this many times: I am really good at picking out town tells when people are under pressure. But thats why I suck at lylo situations: you cant put pressure on people in lylo. You can, but its just not the same as voting them. There was probably a better way to go about getting off your bandwagon. Anyway, sorry I forced that lynch on you and sorry I hammered you even though I figured you were town. Its something town should never do and for that I really hurt our chances.

No hard feelings. I'll know for next time and it's one of those things that I easily misconstrue people into having scummy motivations over town motivations (especially people I have never played with).

xvart.

[xvart]

And I wanted to say that the reason I was so absent for those few days is that I witnessed a domestic abuse on the campus where I worked, and since I am also the conduct officer at the school I was totally bogged down with police reports, incident reports, interviewing people, politicking, etc. that my focus was totally elsewhere. I never offer excuses during games unless specifically asked because I don't think personal life should bleed into the game and I really wouldn't even want to offer an option for someone to accuse me of making it up since I would fly off the handle (not that anyone would have this game).

I think it has to do with the pressure being taken off. Clears up the thinking a bit. I've been a part of one other dead QT late in the game and the players there had it pretty much doped out by the time I arrived.

I think it also has to do with the fact that there is no consequence to what anyone says. There are no repercussions since everyone is already dead. I know on occasion (however rarely lol) I filter myself in games because of not have the political clout to push through what I'm saying or haven't really been able to comprehend the fallout.

Nic - I thought the game was ran excellently. Great flavor for a normal and everything was run smoothly. Kudos on the first moderating. I would not hesitate to enlist in another of your games.

xvart.

[xvart]

I would say a failure on the towns part. Like I said, I was about to go after him during my initial demise but didn't think I could pull it together, then Slaxx hit the scumdar hard. I want to go back and look at his D1 bus and see what it was and how great it was (as everyone is saying).

xvart.

[xvart]

I didn't mean for that last post to be demeaning towards Boberz; I should have said a nice combination of both. Boberz did do a nice job in the later days, but I don't think he was immune.

You are right, one of my posts didnt come out yesterday. I made a detailed case and vote on Bub Buddikins. I will do it again in a sec.

unvote vote Bub

Sorry.

Boberz - did you really forget to vote Bub or was this post a lie?

xvart.