Mafia 119: MURDER AT HOTEL DEATH(GAME OVER)

[CooLDoG]

I am trying to catch up (this game moves to fast) and I am catching some things that seem scummy to me as I am reading.

I didn't feel like I needed to comment.

I don't like this, because not responding to a direct question/adress is not pro-town.

well kids, you are not getting it...you got a problem with that vote me....

This seems kinda scummy, again not answering to a direct question, and for aparent;y no reason ether.

Sorry, but that is an -opinion-.

With this said ether the role name tells us they are scum, or lets a think they are scum, or even more their role says they can't say that name...

if you knew you would understand....my neighbor and I are vig-like..not vigs....I dont need to tell you if we are two shot, unlimited shot, etc...i dont need to tell you any other part of the mechanic, which is in the name...so no, it is not pro-town...so back the fuck off....if you think i am scummy for not telling you..vote me or move on.

at this point, you are looking scummy for role fishing...keep in mind, i didnt have to tell you jack.

Ether he is really scummy, or he is telling the truth.
Just would like to note her that this is most likly old news, it just will help me latter as well as showing how far I have read to all of you...

I don't want to quote Volken, so just look at his post #205 on page 9.
I really think he is town.

I agree that we should lynch one of the meighbours and that it should be from the second pair. But I think it should be zwet other than Pom. It was unneccessary for him to claim. He could be jumping on to the townieness in which case both are scum or he claimed because he is the scum member of the pair when the town half wouldn't claim in that position unless they were stupid. I hardly think zwet is stupid (yet) and so I think he would be better to lynch than Pom.

Zwit is a "meighbours" too. Why switch?
reading down farther DH picked up on it too.

DemonHybrid wrote:
Now, which one of those 4 are the most scummy?

Take a look back: here's CKD who's hanging onto the mystery of the shot-count for dear life. Do you think that's scummy, to not give that information over to scum when town doesn't need it now, or townly? He's also pretty brash and proactive this game, provoking those who want to screw up whatever plan he has.

Here's Pomegranate, who's been under the radar, passive in her views and soft-defended by Espy (someone who REALLY should be lynched either now or later). She is also one of the neighbors (who never wanted to be outed, by the way; I've been in plenty of games where scum neighbors did not want to be outed), which gives her just as much of a chance of being scum as CKD does but is more likely due to composure differences.

Now, who do you go for?

This seems a bit unfairly balanced to me... First you say you're going to compare ALL of the neighbors, and then you only talk about two of them, clearly favoring one over the other.

Unvote for now... Esp has answered the questions I wanted him to already.

You seem to be lurking (like me...) And the it seems like the second one of the town votes espy you unvote...

Unvote, Vote: Looker

Don't like the many votes/unvotes going on with you.
And now we come to the whole singer/CKD thing... Now we know why the name was sooo important. I don't think singer should have said what she said. And YAY! I am now cought up...I will post more later... Sorry it took soo long

Quote tags fixed for you, courtesy of your friendly neighborhood mod.

[CooLDoG]

last one quote failed...

[vollkan]

I need flips to analyze people.

Bullshit. There is no way that you can have the intellectual capacity to analyse people in light of a flip, but lack it analyse without a flip. Everybody is somewhat handicapped on D1; and, conversely, flips aren't a panacea to uncertainty. You're just making an excuse for being too lazy to do any proper scumhunting.

The above post was a joke because it had 25 words and the 4 words you told me not to use.

Thanks. Being exceptionally stupid, I didn't work out your clever joke

I think karmadog is scum but i can't say anything know because I don't have flips and wagons to analyze.

First, that's crap. You can't think CKD is scum unles you have reasons for that opinion. If you don't have any reason to think CKD is scum then,

by definition

, you can't think he is scum.

Second, to state what should be obvious, it's no use analysing CKD after he's flipped.

Third, let's assume CKD flips scum. What does that tell you? If you needing flips and wagons to analyse isn't just a bullshit excuse you are making up for being a VI, then you should have some answer.

Fourth, let's assume CKD flips town. What does that tell you? And again: "If you needing flips and wagons to analyse isn't just a bullshit excuse you are making up for being a VI, then you should have some answer."

[zwetschenwasser]

CKD is likely town.

[DemonHybrid]

This is your only reason for suspecting Pom?

No.

This is a moot point now, but I think that she's being really passive in her views and staying under the radar. However, now that she made the brilliant point about Sera's modding style, I'm letting her go and going for my top suspicion.

How do you think that your claim has been beneficial to the town?

This way, we know that there is -at least- one VT. When it comes down to trying to figure out whether one of the neighbors are scum or not, and we know that there are -some- VTs, we know that the chances of there being all 4 town neighbors are slightly diminished. Therefore, in this case, I'm willing to bet that because there are some VTs in play, that there are 4 town neighbors, or 3 town neighbors/1 scum neighbor.

[DemonHybrid]

Cooldog, if you were asking me a question, you gotta redo your post, man. I can hardly read that.

[DemonHybrid]

Alright, now that singersigner is definitely part of this game:

Terrible use of judgment. I have to agree with CKD, but not deeply enough to vote you for it.

You both feel town still. Just stop failing.

I'm -starting- to lean more towards Zwet now after my back and forth with Pom, but like I said, I want the neighbors left alone for now. Espy lynch or bust today.

[vezokpiraka]

I can't get volkan in a scum or town category.
Ahhh.

CoolDog is intresting to watch.
I will post my reads later.

[curiouskarmadog]

@ Demon, and who ever else feels so inclined to answer (the more the merrier, would like opinions and stances on this question)..also interested in seeing who blatantly ignores this post.

CKD’s 122…*sigh* something like that, yeah. But you failed to mention (several times I might add) that it’s one-shot, so no, scum doesn’t get “extra” help if I die and you are, in fact, part of the scum faction. Dumb ass.

I disagree, and almost think that CKD is part of the mafia faction because he decided to make that decision on his own. And not reading the Role PM very carefully apparently, since we can only use it ONCE. I think Horror is buddying with CKD on this one…

I would like to hear your thoughts on these two points SS made here.

The first paragraph, given that we are indeed a one shot CPR Doc, if one of us dies (the other can use the ability without having to come to a consensus), and the other is scum, do you think that scum will get "extra" help? Why do you think here that SS is saying they dont? (BTW: I just doubled checked the PM again, and yes, the other can make the decision alone.) Do you feel that a.) that is scummy to misrepresent that and b.) do you feel it was a good move as town to mention the one shot part? Also do you understand/agree with SS's vote on me?

2nd paragraph, first of all, this is a completely untrue statement. I DID discuss it in the QT thread, my neighbor, decided to quit posting in there. I did not go behind ANYONE's back and I stated my intentions clearly. But for WIFOM sake, what possible motivation could I have as scum to coming forward? IF I was scum, wouldnt it have been easier (and a much better play) to shut my mouth today, kill off my neighbor tonight, and simply use the CPR doc on someone I knew wasnt going to be killed? I am interested in hearing theories here..

I am also interested in how SS's is going to explain his two lies/misrepresentations in his vote post.

[DemonHybrid]

Alright, my thoughts on the two points:

CKD’s 122…*sigh* something like that, yeah. But you failed to mention (several times I might add) that it’s one-shot, so no, scum doesn’t get “extra” help if I die and you are, in fact, part of the scum faction. Dumb ass.

I think it's completely unclear whether or not scum can actually use it, but instead, gives the illusion that they can. Obviously, it'd be a vig ability for them, since they wouldn't CPR a person being attacked by their own faction. If they CAN, then yes, it's extra help.

I disagree, and almost think that CKD is part of the mafia faction because he decided to make that decision on his own. And not reading the Role PM very carefully apparently, since we can only use it ONCE. I think Horror is buddying with CKD on this one…

I don't agree with this. Especially since she misstated it herself. Horror is alright to me at the moment.

As for your questions to me:

a.) that is scummy to misrepresent that and b.) do you feel it was a good move as town to mention the one shot part? Also do you understand/agree with SS's vote on me?

a.) Perhaps -somewhat-, but I think there's enough mindfuckery going on at the moment that someone could be town and legit screw up explaining it or reading it right.
b.) As I've said before, I don't think mentioning the shot-count necessarily hurts town, but I think it is pro-town to try to hold onto that info.

If it REALLY came down to CKD or SS as a fight to the death, 1personisconfirmedscumtheotherisconfirmedtown decision that I had to make, I'd choose SS as the scum, BUT! don't forget the math Pom and I went through to get to where we are now. There's a good chance all neighbors are town, and I'd advise against lynching one right now.

I still think this is town vs town and it's a waste to be against each other at this stage in the game with so much craziness going on. For all we know, I could be the only VT and there could be 4 town neighbors, so until things are narrowed down, I'd leave the situation be for right now.

SS is a girl, by the way. Classify her as such, please.

[singersigner]

Town Neighbor one-shot CPR Doctor

I'm inclined to think you are town now, since I don't think scum would know to put in "town" in their name (and in the right place). In any case, that's the exact title of my role, too, so I'll UNVOTE: curiouskarmadog.

PREVIEW EDIT:
Your latest post bothers me for a few reasons:
1. Your misrepped the role by making everyone assume it was a vig-like ability that could be used more than once.
2. I never said we couldn't make the decision alone if the other one dies. If we are both alive, we HAVE to agree on it together, or nothing happens.
3. You discussed it, but due to your previous partner's MIA status, you ended up making the decision by yourself, since there was no way of knowing if he agreed with it. I guarantee I would've kept my mouth shut for at least the first day, since I had no way of knowing if you were in the scum faction or not, and since I don't know who's in it, I don't want to risk them knowing the ability and misguiding either of us (assuming we're both town). You did not go about this in the right way, and I stand by that wholeheartedly.
4. You keep including yourself in the possibility that "one of us could be scum," after (I believe) claiming that you're town. Why?
5. You've gotten "approval" from some people about claiming, but now you've forced 4 people to claim on the FIRST DAY.
I DON'T APPROVE.
I understand not wanting to tell everyone every detail about our ability, but oh my GAWD you had to be smarter about it.

I am also interested in how SS's is going to explain his two lies/misrepresentations in his vote post.

Do

you

want to explain my apparent misrepresentations? I think you're trying to scum hunt here, which is town, but you're failing miserably by making shit up, which is scum.

[curiouskarmadog]

first of all, I never implied the amount of shots in any way...matter of fact when pushed to claim further..I didnt.

explain to me HOW EXACTLY I FORCED ZWET AND POM TO CLAIM..another god damn misrepresentation..

I didnt include myself as scum, I am asking if I was scum, what is my motivation?

lets play this game real fast..

you are scum, I am town.

I dont say SHIT about the CPR doc.

you kill me.

next night, you have the ability to kill anyone you want...no one will have a clue why, how, or who.

now that I came out..and I die....you will be held accountable for that random kill....I think it was a very good play.

I held back the kicker about the doc, so on the off chance we do get a cop claim...or on the off chance you are not scum.

[singersigner]

CKD’s 122…*sigh* something like that, yeah. But you failed to mention (several times I might add) that it’s one-shot, so no, scum doesn’t get “extra” help if I die and you are, in fact, part of the scum faction. Dumb ass.

Horrordude’s 131 is a little unsettling when he agrees that CKD should’ve claimed today. I disagree, and almost think that CKD is part of the mafia faction because he decided to make that decision on his own. And not reading the Role PM very carefully apparently, since we can only use it ONCE. I think Horror is buddying with CKD on this one…

CKD’s 208=WIFOM.

Prana’s 213 doesn’t sit well with me. I don’t agree that we should hide how many times we can use the ability.

217: CC’s are always necessary.

I want TNM's replacement's thoughts on this whole situation when he/she comes in.

I hope this is sufficient.

I don't trust him anymore...VOTE: curioskarmadog

OMG FUCKING GOD
THERE IS A REASON I DIDN’T MENTION WE WERE A ONE SHOT YOU ASSHOLE, just in case you weren’t scum, I didn’t want to let scum know that…why the fuck did you think it was a good idea to tell everyone that?….as town, you should have understood why I WENT OUT OF MY WAY REPEATEDLY NOT TO TELL EVERYONE THAT...the fact you dont see why, is telling. and yes, if you (as scum) kill me tonight, and we don’t agree on the shot, you get to kill alone…the fact you are trying to paint that as anything else is bullshit or an out and out lie!!! so yeah, if I die tonight and we dont use the shot together, scum get "extra help".

I am going to go ahead and claim fully…because SS, is painting the picture that is untrue…and he obviously wants the kill…

So for you guys who wanted the full god damn name.

Town Neighbor one-shot CPR Doctor, now it should be quite obvious why a.) I didn’t want to claim fully b.) why I didn’t want to give you my full name, and c.) why I said "vig like".

The reason I decided to claim, is because right out of the gate, my neighbor partner in the thread last night, said.

“About the game, I'm thinking that there may be a lot of neighbourhoods like ours seeing as ours has a name, and maybe each one has a different PR and scum are in some of the neighbourhoods (if you're scum you should totally tell me, I promise I wont tell anyone!), which would be a pretty interesting setup as scum could try and influence the PRs.

I think that CPR doc is better used as a vig, especially in this case, because if you're scum you can just change where the NK goes...but then again you could do that with the vig target as well...I guess if you were scum you could just NK me though and get control of an extra kill, so because that seems a little bit too easy for scum I'm thinking you're more likely to be town at this stage anyway....”

My reply was this.


“ok, I think you are probably correct that the game is divided up in a bunch of neighborhoods..or at least several neighbors. I havent quite decided what I think we should do with vig/doc protect...you are correct that if one of us is scum (of course I am not) we could change the NK...HOWEVER, if we get a cop claim, and we both decide use it on the claimer, and he doesnt die, it buys us town creds does it not, plus, we might get another investigation that way....if he dies and someone else is killed, that means scum was tipped off...

I also think we should be open (mostly) with the town about our ability. Meaning, I think we should tell them we have a one shot vig ability. this way, if one of us dies, and a mysterious "vigging" occurs, they know where it came from. I dont think we should mention (AT ALL) about the doc ability.

if you are scum, I wonder about balance issues....it doesnt seem fair to give scum an additional kill....if you pop me off in the night...you can use the vig?...see why I want to claim that part?”

That was it for the communication.

I didn’t like the fact he wanted to use a potentional doc protect as a vig.

I didn’t trust my first neighbor…and I think this guy is scum. I wanted to be open and honest with the town, so if something happened, someone was accountable…I upset your plans…..you want people to believe as scum, I would come out with this information page 1, and not try to use it to my advantage?...bullshit, scum bag.

Unvote vote singersigner

Hmm, actually, now I understand why you wanted to claim...in a weird way. I don't think you went about it in the right way, since you brought too much attention to yourself in a bad way, but thinking that I was a part of the scum faction, and I could communicate to them to kill you tonight (which I didn't understand you were getting at earlier), it would make sense for you to want to draw attention to us so that if I were scum, I would automatically be the target the next day.

Conclusion: you and I are both town.

The bolded. FALSE. Please stop assuming you know what you're talking about.

Also, for future reference, I would prefer you NOT quote the QT. I'm pretty sure there's a rule (or should be) against that anyway, as it is just not appropriate for several reasons.

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD’s 122…*sigh* something like that, yeah. But you failed to mention (several times I might add) that it’s one-shot,

so no, scum doesn’t get “extra” help if I die and you are

, in fact, part of the scum faction. Dumb ass.

when you said this...What exactly did you mean that scum doesnt get "extra" help?

If I die and you are scum..who gets the cpr doc/vig ability?

[DemonHybrid]

Can you both drop this for right now and help us kill Espeonage? You both are misrepresenting stuff at this point and it's just boiled down to pure desire to get the other lynched instead of trying to figure out of they're scum or not.

[singersigner]

1.

first of all, I never implied the amount of shots in any way...matter of fact when pushed to claim further..I didnt.

2.

explain to me HOW EXACTLY I FORCED ZWET AND POM TO CLAIM..another god damn misrepresentation..

3.

I didnt include myself as scum, I am asking if I was scum, what is my motivation?

4.

lets play this game real fast..

you are scum, I am town.

I dont say SHIT about the CPR doc.

you kill me.

next night, you have the ability to kill anyone you want...no one will have a clue why, how, or who.

now that I came out..and I die....you will be held accountable for that random kill....I think it was a very good play.

5.

I held back the kicker about the doc, so on the off chance we do get a cop claim...or on the off chance you are not scum.

1. When you said vig-like ability, you left it up for interpretation, and anyone could've assumed one way or the other. Plus, when you continued to say how I could "help scum" if I was scum, implied that it was an extra kill [every night]. That's what I didn't get.
2. You didn't specify the role much, which might bring out a counter-claim if zwet thought you were lying.
3. WIFOM. Stop it.
4. Right, as I explained in my previous post, I understand where you're coming from now. But it would've been a good idea to explain that to everyone else, in that way, so we didn't have to go fishing through and interpreting what the hell you're talking about.
5. Right. I didn't say anything about it. YOU did. Might've been a good idea to keep that information to yourself, hmm?

[curiouskarmadog]

if someone is misrepresenting (this is different than misunderstanding) something..that is scummy and should be addressed.

DH, please point out where I misrepresented ANYTHING!

held back info yes, but I have only said the truth.

[DemonHybrid]

I do agree that you used "vig-like" in an awkward way which threw us off track, and you painted SS as full scum right off the bat (as per what she bolded), BUT I don't find any of this scummy. It's just bickering back and forth at this point and it's giving more information for the scum to use during the night kill. Talk about this on a different day. Everyone is out and claimed. There could be one scum or no scum within the 4 neighbors. I suggest we drop it now and focus.

[singersigner]

For the record, I don't agree with how TNM handle the QT, so please don't hold that against, kthx.

I'll come back later and reanalyze my other suspects at the moment. I believe CKD is over-reacting in a very town-like manner (however irritating it may be), so I no longer believe he's scum. How fortunate for you.

[Seraphim]

Vote Count

NicolBolas(0) -

Jack(3)

– NicolBolas, SnakePlissken, Nero Cain
vezokpiraka(0) -

curiouskarmadog(1)

– Looker
Stef(0) -

horrordude0215(1)

- Stef

Espeonage(6)

– vollkan, CooLDoG, a2rudeboy, Pomegranate, vezokpiraka, DemonHybrid
vollkan(0) -
CooLDoG(0) -

Nero Cain(1)

- Jack

zwetschenwasser(1)

– Espeonage
a2rudeboy(0) -
Pomegranate(0) -

Looker(2)

– zwetschenwasser, horrordude0215
SnakePlissken(0) -
PranaDevil(0) -
DemonHybrid(0) –

singersigner(1)

- curiouskarmadog

Not Voting(2)

– PranaDevil, singersigner

With 18 alive, it is 10 to lynch
Deadline: September 16, 2010, 12:00 pm, Central Time

singersigner replaces totallynotmafia. Sorry man, even if you are sick, it would be nice if you could somehow tell me this so I don't replace you.

[CooLDoG]

Cooldog, if you were asking me a question, you gotta redo your post, man. I can hardly read that.

No, I was just posting that in my most un-readable language called CDawg speak in order for me to look at later.

I am at an impasse right now. I don't know if I should support Singer, or if I should support CKD.

I do NOT like the way SKD hid his role from the town, however, I really wonder why he would claim on D-1 now that we know all the facts.

I do NOT like the way that singer told the scum that the role is only a 1-shot. However, I don't have enough info on her (?) to make a full read.

In the end I could see both as scum, or town. I have yet to make a full iso read on ether of them.

In the end I still prefer an ESP lynch. As already stated.

I still think Jack is anti-town, however, I don't see him as scum after iso reading him. Also where has Snake been???

@singer: why did you reveal the 1-shot?
@CKD: this may have already been asked but... Why the claim so early?

[NicolBolas]

I skimmed, and i feel that CKD and Signer is town. Both players' posts and reactions does not feel as though it would be coming from scum. I also have several townreads in this game, but no solid scumreads from my skimming. will read closely soon.

unvote

by the way.

[curiouskarmadog]

@CKD: this may have already been asked but... Why the claim so early?

I dont think you are reading the thread...I have touched on this topic at least twice..let me ask you this....what was my claim (partial and then full)?

[curiouskarmadog]

I am at an impasse right now. I don't know if I should support Singer, or if I should support CKD.

when I see this statement, it makes me think you have read both SS and I thoroughly and you see valid points on both side.

but when you ask me, why did I claim...it makes me feel like the above quote is fence sitting and not really reading, but trying to look like you are reading.

[Jack]

yeah cooldog is scum