Mini 1036 - DEFCON Mafia - Over

[Enigma]

Firstly Eavesdropper is crap and I already mentioned why.

On reading you in ISO.
Your bread crumb trail is obvious. It doesn't take a genius to to guess what you have now.

Now I'm just trying to debate whether is the a ploy or you are actually so naive.
No insult intended for lack of a better word.

[Doombunny9]

I'd also argue that "no explanations" is just the way that Faraday plays. It's irritating, but it does look to at least be consistent:

That is no excuse. Don't have enough time now but remind me to look at faraday's meta to see if he provides explaination in other games.

Anyway I really want to her from PZ now about what he thinks of the players and the game so far and an explaination about his Spyre vote.

[Enigma]

No Faraday's meta is consistent (to a degree) with his other games. Checked before.

[Zhero]

Faraday's reasoning? You mean #146-#150? Obvious? What am I missing out in those posts that you are seeing?

I didn't mean his reasoning was clearly stated, just that it was obvious. His explanation in #166 matches up with where I thought he was going with that.

Stop bread crumbing your role.

Agreed.

[Andrius]

Goddammit I crumb without even realizing it. Just like HP Mafia. :igemou:
NO MORE TALKING ABOUT IT. BACK ON TASK.

Also, I definitely think Eavesdropper is useful, especially late-game/DEFCON 1. Unless the scum are 100% prepared for EVERYTHING that happens then there's no way they'll go through wihtout DayTalk.

[Percy]

So now Elscouta is arguing that "classic" and "not well known" can be the same thing to defend himself against the backpedalling/inconsistency/meta-abuse charge. Did I fall down the rabbit hole and not notice?
He seemed to be backing down from the point:

Anyway, I want to say now that i'm voting Faraday for a lot more than just his "blah is town". His defense based on "everything you say is crap, go away" is not suiting me at all.

"It's not what I said before, it's that he's being

mean to me

".
Hhis defence against my attacks involves supporting the utility of the tell. Either it's good or it isn't, and this seems like a half-hearted attempt to deflect attention from it.

The move is classic, but it's not well known as a tell. Look, there is even people arguing it's not...

:blinks: Oh wow, are you serious?
The fact that people think the tell is bullshit is evidence that it's classic?!
Give me a link to where you've seen this tell used to catch scum, plzkthx.

---

On the "is knowing the rules possible evidence you're scum" - I think I know the rules back to front, but that's because I'm anal like that. Errors in understanding are regrettable, but entirely possible from scum or town. I think ignorance is a really bad towntell, now that I've thought about it some more....

Something about the Zhero/Enigma interaction is bothering me. Check out Zhero's ISO - the person he talks to the most, and is voting for, is Enigma, but it doesn't seem like a scumhunting effort; lots of clarification and agreement... Zhero's currently my #2.

[SpyreX]

Percy, you are a gentleman and a scholar.

Unvote, Vote: Els

[Elscouta]

So now Elscouta is arguing that "classic" and "not well known" can be the same thing to defend himself against the backpedalling/inconsistency/meta-abuse charge. Did I fall down the rabbit hole and not notice?

Nice misrep. I didn't say they were the same thing, but that they were not incompatible : a classic

move

for scum can be not that well known to town.

He seemed to be backing down from the point:

Anyway, I want to say now that i'm voting Faraday for a lot more than just his "blah is town". His defense based on "everything you say is crap, go away" is not suiting me at all.

"It's not what I said before, it's that he's being

mean to me

".

I don't see your point. I'm still voting Faraday for a combination of this tell and of random non-explained posts.

The move is classic, but it's not well known as a tell. Look, there is even people arguing it's not...

:blinks: Oh wow, are you serious?
The fact that people think the tell is bullshit is evidence that it's classic?!

No it's evidence that it is not well known. Read my posts, kthxbye.

Give me a link to where you've seen this tell used to catch scum, plzkthx.

I will try.

[Elscouta]

Give me a link to where you've seen this tell used to catch scum, plzkthx.

I will try.

Actually, no sorry, i won't wade through hundred of pages just to find one. I'll just point to the jeep tells wiki page :

Admitting someone is a townie without saying "IF" (+10) (mafia knows for sure who isn't mafia)

[Hinduragi]

Unvote

Elscouta, a classic move for scum can also be a classic move for town, hence it's not used as a tell.

And lol? You just refused to give some kind of past games explaining the tell but instead linked a wiki article that needs possible revision in defense of you being at L-1? I don't like this at all.

@Spyrex: Wtf was that?

@Enigma: 2 confirmed townies my ass. Andrius just didn't read the rules. It's very possible he could be scum who didn't talk about the missile silo/offensive/defensive thing in his QT because he thought it was obvious, hence why he would mention it in the thread. Faraday proved my own town theory wrong. Also, why are you looking at ISO's for breadcrumbing?

[Hinduragi]

^EBWOP: Addon to the Enigma part: On supposedly

confirmed

townies, no less.

[Elscouta]

Unvote

Elscouta, a classic move for scum can also be a classic move for town, hence it's not used as a tell.

And lol? You just refused to give some kind of past games explaining the tell but instead linked a wiki article that needs possible revision in defense of you being at L-1? I don't like this at all.

And what am I supposed to do?

Explain why it is a tell? I already did.
Wade through 200+ pages of mafia to find one? I have other things to do of my time.

[Faraday]

Tell me when this makes sense. Being scum doesn't give you some cosmic understanding of all game mechanics.

You honestlycan't work out why I'd believe that? I find it very hard to believe scum wouldn't have discussed their picks pre-game, assuming competent scum, and given the playerlist there's probably 1 competent scum. Thus they'd have set Andrisu straight.

Kewl no reasoning. I must say you make a very convincing argument.

So? Do you agree or disagree with Elscumta?

Also @Faraday- You missed my question. What is your reasoning behind the Enigma vote/elscou FoS?

I think they're both prob scum. Idk if I fos'd anyone though, I never do that. Elscouta was originally gut but the hole's been dug as we've went on, so to speak

Anyway throwing out town reads is scummy. Think about this:

scum saying scum is town- Allows them to buddy up
scum saying town is town- If the townie gets lynched it makes the scum look more like town whereas if the scum gets lynched then the townie looks more scummy
town saying scum/town is town- Tells the scum who to kill

But like...none of this is actually true. Why would scum want to buddy when so many people see buddying and go OMG SCUMMY. Point 2 is not true, there's no arguing I don't look more town if Andrius flips town and I've never seen someone become more town for predicting a town flip in a game either. Point 3 is also not true, unless you think scum are retarded they'll be able to pick out obv townies themselves. It's not hard.

AH this computer's a piece of shit that can't copy/cut. Going to need to make a series of posts. UGH.

[Faraday]

So it looks like we have done good, we have 2

confirmed

townies now, based on the fact that they failed to read the opening posts properly.

This is correct, glad you spotted it.

Also you completely ignored everything about the Elscouta banbdwagon. Do you've any thoughts on it at all?

[Doombunny9]

@Enigma: 2 confirmed townies my ass. Andrius just didn't read the rules. It's very possible he could be scum who didn't talk about the missile silo/offensive/defensive thing in his QT because he thought it was obvious, hence why he would mention it in the thread. Faraday proved my own town theory wrong. Also, why are you looking at ISO's for breadcrumbing?

Sorry for answering something asked towards someone else but I could have sworn he said it was meant to be sarcastic.

I think they're both prob scum.

No shit. Why else why'd you be voting them? Stop avoiding the question and tell me why you really think Enigma is scummy.

So? Do you agree or disagree with Elscumta?

On that "This reasoning is crap. Go away." and providing no explaination is scummy. Yes. On his other points, not so much.

Unvote

Enigma is slowly fading out of my scumdar and I'm beginning to notice Faraday and Elscouta a lot more. Will reread later and make up my mind. I also really want to hear from PZ.

[Doombunny9]

But like...none of this is actually true. Why would scum want to buddy when so many people see buddying and go OMG SCUMMY. Point 2 is not true, there's no arguing I don't look more town if Andrius flips town and I've never seen someone become more town for predicting a town flip in a game either. Point 3 is also not true, unless you think scum are retarded they'll be able to pick out obv townies themselves. It's not hard.

Point one- Buddying can help scum if they manage to pull it off correctly and don't overdo it.
Point two- I've seen it happen before.
Point three- I'm not saying scum make their decisions based on what townies say alone but it certainly can help. Besides, scum opinions and town opinions differ a lot.

[AlmasterGM]

[DEFCON Mafia - Day 1, DEFCON 3 - Announcement]

RedCoyote replaces Papa Zito, effective immediately. Please welcome him!

[Enigma]

Maybe I should make my sarcasm alot more blunt.
Confirmed townie is BS. I'm not calling anyone confirmed unless it's stipulated by the mod. Confirmed status is what make town lose during LYLO. It's a fucking illusion and does more harm to town than good.

@Hind
I looked at his ISO to see if I could get a feel to see whether his breadcrumbing was sincere or not. I'm still no convinced on this matter. What's wrong with looking at someone's ISO? Is that supposedly scummy?

@Faraday
My opinions on Elscouta. Well based on my above reasoning, I do agree with him to some degree.
All this so called "blah is confirmed" when we have only had a few days of serious talk is making me uncomfortable. I've been waiting on this issue because I wanna see those if those people who are attacking him actually believe in their logic (which I disagree with), or are just looking for a bandwagon to jump on.
I'm not going to defend his argument because I want to see how he defends himself.

Just because one disagrees with another's logic doesn't mean the other is scum.
It is their logic and it is not for another to dictate the beliefs someone else holds.
There are better scum tells than just "I don't agree to this persons thoughts".

[SocioPath]

^EBWOP: Addon to the Enigma part: On supposedly

confirmed

townies, no less.

UNVOTE
VOTE: HINDURAGI

THIS IS GOOD.

[Hinduragi]

And what am I supposed to do?

Explain why it is a tell? I already did.

Did you miss my #185 as well as the points everyone else had to add to the argument or are you just trying to be funny?

@Doombunny: Ahh, that explains it. I didn't see he meant it to be sarcastic.

@Enigma: I didn't see post #199 so I assumed you ISO'd him and searched for breadcrumbing.

Also, just lol @ Andrius. Forget bakeries, Andrius is the owner of Panera Bread. The secret's out.

[Elscouta]

And what am I supposed to do?

Explain why it is a tell? I already did.

Did you miss my #185 as well as the points everyone else had to add to the argument or are you just trying to be funny?

Yeah, I read them. I disagree. Now what? It's not as if i'll convince anyone that it is a tell, when it takes three months to settle a single meta dispute on any topic.

[RedCoyote]

I so wanted to be in this game from the start, but I'm glad I got to replace in early. I'm actually in too many games at the moment, but this is easily the one I'm most interested in.

Unvote

in case big papa was voting. Just bear with me a little bit guys. I'm very much looking forward to playing with y'all, but I'm probably not going to really get going until Friday.

[Elscouta]

After a reread, i would like to state that Hinduragi looks by a long way the most opportunistic of my voters. Actually, I consider him to outrank Faraday now. (Bonus point, for those that care : his #11)

Unvote, Vote: Hinduragi

[Doombunny9]

Hey Socio... You going to you know? Actually contribute something? Out of ten posts (Whereas most people have over double that and the only people with less posts are Percy and Spyre (Not counting Papa since he dropped off the face of the Earth)) only one was actually good (good defined as participating in discussion etc. etc.): #5. The rest just mainly being fluff. Also, out of the 3 posts he made in Defcon 3, two vere votes/votechanges with nothing more than a 3 or 4 word explanation (If I even want to call it that). Finally, he kept his RV on Spyre for an exceedingly long amount of time. guys, I think we have a scum here.

Vote: Socio

Also, welcome Red

[Hinduragi]

I just told you that post was the reason I was debating that calling someone non-mafia/town is not a scumtell with you and now you're voting me for it. You haven't even proven me wrong or tried to argue why either. I'm also not voting you.