Mini 1039 Lost: Season One (Over)

[vezokpiraka]

So you have suspicion on me without any reason.
I see you are scum trying to force a mislynch. Bad scum.

[BloodCovenent]

Magna
-There are other games besides GoW mafia where i blindly followed a claim. I think i did the same in Dramonics bastard game as well.

[jenniwren]

I'll narrow things down a bit more. I'm town, so that means we're left with Adem and HH for a D1 lynch. Gee, is it always this easy?

My vote is still on

Adem

. I think his Vezo case is an attempt to appear to be scumhunting while not doing anything of the sort, and his unvote is laced with self-preservation. Also, his "unvote" post is troublesome primarily because it doesn't seem like he has any other suspects, and he asks for HH's comments about FaraSera and MoI rather than making a stand of his own against either of them (Of all eleven other players, why HH?).

@HH:

I wouldn't mind hearing what you have on MoI or FSHydra.

If anything, FSHydra might be easier to figure out if he's scum since both people would have to keep the story straight.

I'll do an ISO on him later, but I invite you to do one too

.

That said, I think I will

unvote

Vezok for now. I've made a case on him as best I could, but nobody else sees it that way.

Since more people than there are mafia showed their dislike for it, I'd be wasting my time and needlessly risking my life further by sticking to it

. This does not in any way alleviate my suspicions of him, but for the time being I'll look elsewhere. Still not liking how both Vezok and dram started being against BCs lynch at essentially the same time. Maybe I'll ISO dram along with FSHydra next.

Speaking of

HH

...as of last Thursday, I had a null/"maybe scum" read on him as BC and Adem were at the top of my list. However, AGar and MoI have made good points about him, and there isn't much I can add to the discussion except that I think his last post made it seem like he didn't have anyone he could actually make a case against at this point, and that though he "doesn't get" the MoI love and isn't "too keen" on the hydra, he isn't willing to make a case on them. If you really think someone is scummy, why wouldn't you make a case on them? If you're town, that's your job. You don't just get to focus on the ones that might be an easier lynch. Anyway, the cases against him are strong, and I don't see him doing any scumhunting, so I wouldn't be opposed to lynching him and will change my vote if needed.

I'm going to give a pass to Vezok, Dekes, Dram, BC, and Chesskid today.

That leaves me to look at Magna, Seraday, AGar, Ademisk, Jason, and Jenni. I don't really get all of the Magna love, but he hasn't moved too far up my scum list yet. I'm still trying to read Seraday. I'm not too keen on the hydra thing, because it makes reads much harder.

I'll focus on those last four, only because I'd be wasting my breath talking about the others.

@Mod:

What is the D1 deadline? If I am counting correctly, we have until Tuesday of next week? Or Wednesday?

@Everyone:

Note: I'm not technically V/LA, but I am sort of V/LA

. I won't have Internet at home until Thursday night (between 5-7 p.m.), and I've been at the mercy of the library's hours for Internet access since Friday. As of today, they are open from 8 a.m. to midnight, so it's just a matter of my being here. Their hours were limited over the last weekend, however, and they were closed on Labor Day.

[xRECKONERx]

Deadline is 9/14 at 6:00PM.

[Ademisk]

FSHydra ISO:

Vote: vezokpiraka

Anyway, let's cut the bullshit. We're in agreement. I'm declaring a policy lynch on vezokpiraka. If you haven't played with him before, well, if you've ever played with Empking, it's something similar except even more bizarre. He likes to jump wagons, is nigh-on unreadable, and is one of the most anti-town players in the game I have ever had the (dis?)honor of playing with. Let's lynch him right here, on Day 1, where he can do the least damage.

Calls for policy lynch of vezok. HH then calls him scum for this, and FSH retorts with WIFOM by asking HH why he assumes Vezok is not scum. Due to how fast this was dropped I consider the policy lynch RVS-ish, and thus neutral, but not the WIFOM.

ROLE RELATED INFO? Forgive me if I don't automatically a) trust you to be town and EVEN if you were town I don't think I trust you 100% to work in the best interests of the town with this info.

FSH seems to be strongly against Vezok, regardless of what side Vezok might be on. His last instance of baseless oposition against Vezok.

AH. VEZOK. Ethan's fucking obv scum. Like he's the scummiest character and main big evil of season 1.

I really can't see Dekes being town. Unvote Vote Dekes.

This post did not sit well with me before. After me and FSH argued for a bit, I more or less came to see it his way. Still find it a little odd that he was the first on to vote, but I'll just say it was due to him being on at the right time.

Me and Sera were just discussing that in our qt. Ethan/Claire lyncher/lynchee does actually make 100% flavour sense. Bleh I didn't think vezo would be savvy enough to actually do that, but it makes a fair bit of sense. Unvote I also had another even more terrifying posibillity overnight, but thankfully that's not true.

I liked this part (and the rest of the post). In a way, it offsets my slight suspicion about him being the first on Dekes wagon. Also good because I would've never caught this, having never seen the show. Towny points.

Actually Vezok I have a proposal. If you are a lyncher please claim. This way we can lynch Dekes today (there's no guarantee he's town, see reck's mod meta). You'll leave the game and we'll at least be free of all these distractions. What say you? You get a guaranteed win and we at the very least have a decent chance of lynching a scum lynchee.

Another good post. Assuming he meant what he said in ISO 30 that he wouldn't actually go through with the kill, this was a pretty good way to out Vezok

Vote Jenni

Any vigs out there should take care of vezo, I don't want to 'waste' a lynch on him. Also lyncher's a sucky role in a mini game. Also there's too many people being so fucking...passive. It's annoying.

Maybe its just me, but I don't like unsupported votes. They allow potential scum (or anyone else) to roll with the wagon and not participate in the game. Plus, he himself is being passive by not making a case for jenni when voting her.

Then chess jumps on. Again, doesn't look good.

Unvote Vote Bloodcovenant

Another unsupported vote, right after saying how scummy it is for dram to make an unsupported vote on him. I guess its ok if you're the one doing it.

K @ dram's softclaim. That means we're lynching none of the following today: Vezok, Dekes, Chesskid, dram, blood as they're all obvtown/stuff/lyncher.

Why is chesskid in that list? Nothing has happened that would guarantee his safety for the day like it would for the other 4. If anything, you should've mentioned how towny he is when you mentioned MoI.


Overall, I think FSH learns more towards town. I don't like how he makes unsupported votes, especially since he calls others on it. However, he did make a couple of good posts that I think benefited town more than his scummy posts hurt us.

And FSH, you should start signing your posts again. It would nice knowing who posts what instead of having to guess.


@jenni: Patience. I said I'd do a FSH ISO and here it is. I don't really have a suspect now because my top 3 are protected (Vezok, BC, dram). Admittedly, I haven't touched dram yet, but he caught my attention and I'm waiting for the case to develop.

I asked HH to comment on MoI and FSH because he specifically said he wont. Even if he doesn't have a case, any insight is good. Heck, I invite you to take a look at them too, jenni . You've been focusing a little too intently on me lately anyway.

[vezokpiraka]

Ooooo. Ademisk is super sum.

unvote
vote ademinsk

[HackerHuck]

I'm starting with Ademisk mainly because he's first alphabetically. Interesting post here. He makes an attack on FeraSera for believing Vezok's claim and points out why it's not too believable, but rather than choose a side, he places an FoS on FeraSera.

Once the claims come out from both parties, he again takes no stance on the matter, choosing instead to leave it to the test. I find the test scummy, only because there are no real good outcomes from it and it will only end up getting more people to claim.

Town credit for this post. Scum really don't have much to gain from keeping the lyncher alive now. It could help scum near endgame if he really ends up a treestump, but I don't really see Ademisk looking that far ahead.

The quick 180 the following day seems really interesting. It appears to be a response to MoI's challenging message, but his target of Vezok is about the safest one you could pick. The last half of that post is also surprising.

And for MoI: My other suspicion is on BC. Frankly, I have more suspicion on him than on Vezok by his posts compared to Vezoks, but Vezoks actions seem more significant to me. Since you have most of the case written up in your posts, here are a few of my favorite quotes:
...some quotes...And MoI, just because Vezok comes off as VI does not mean we should give him a free pass on all he says and does. Sure we may have to judge him by a different set of standards, but that doesn't mean he gets a free ride to the endgame.

So BC is scummier, but you really want to get rid of Vezok. It sounds more like Ademisk is now in favor of the policy lynch on Vezok.

I already commented on his rolefishing, but it should be mentioned again. I'm not sure what to make of his stubbornness in thinking that Vezok probably isn't a lyncher, but it ranks up there with him thinking that Dram is likely scum for saying that we shouldn't lynch BloodCovenent.

Specifically to the question on MoI and Seraday, I should be able to get around to them before deadline, but I wanted to note that they're not on my priority list for today and why.



Jason actually wasn't on my list until I noticed that I hadn't accounted for everyone. Given his post count, he seems to be just flying under the radar, which isn't a good sign.
I don't like the seeming contradiction here. At first he acts like he doesn't know much about lynchers, but then seems to have enough experience with them to make a pretty absolute statement.

The lyncher theory has been brought up.. im not entirely sure how that works... does the lyncher automatically win the game if said target is lynched?

Wait, you would support a lyncher getting his win cause?... in my experience with lynchers and it is limited to my admission... A lyncher is never set out to lynch an anti-town role. That would mean willingly supporting a lynch of a town role??? thats not very pro town.

It is actually something scum might suggest to get rid of a town member? a lyncher is usually an anti town role. I don't like helping a lyncher win the game with a lynch of someone who could be town.

major FOS: Faraseradayaphim

Unless you can show me where a lyncher has set out to lynch an anti-town role in a game, this could well turn into a vote.

now for the reveal

....I beleive the one time I was lyncher my target was a protown role. I knew the persons name and role before hand as I recall.

Remembered what information he got and what type of player he was targeting, but he didn't remember how the win condition works?
after a few more posts, his mind clears a bit more...

I am not sure if it ends the game... from what I recall the game goes on minus the lyncher who wins.... as he has achieved his win condition, town and scum can still play on to try and achieve their win conditions.

Anyway, we should maybe move away from Vez and start to look for actual scum instead of chasing lynchers. I quite like jenniwren for scum right now, Like I said earlier his interactions so far have been almost like he is trying to add nothing, while looking like he is with the lost character talk. I guess you could also see that as slight rolefishing.

vote:jenniwren

Maybe some pressure will hep him give us content

a basic pot-kettle lurker vote. I did like the vote at the time, but the tail off of that post makes it seem like he's not really looking for scum. Voting for content usually doesn't work too well and it's worse if you telegraph it.

First real vote comes after ISO of me and Ademisk. He made the best choice of the two, but I'm not sure why he singled out just the two of us.

I'll comment briefly on two things before I sign off for the night. I wasn't happy that Vez hadn't fully claimed, but I was less happy that Dekes hadn't, especially since he dropped hints at it. In a likely scum vs town situation, holding back on claims is a sign of scumminess and Vezok had obviously claimed a lot more information than Dekes had. I also wasn't speculating about a vig. I was basically educating a possible vig on why it's not a good idea to target the lyncher. There was enough noise about it being a good idea and I wanted to quash that.

I didn't get as far as I had hoped tonight, so I'll have to finish up tomorrow, so just consider this part one.

[BloodCovenent]

All of these PbPa's are scummy if you ask me. I hate them >.<

[jasonT1981]

HH.... the reason I can not know for sure, even though I was in the role only once... was because I was lynched before I could achieve my win condition. It was either day 1 or day 2.. cant remember off hand. I never achieved my win condition, so I can not say for sure what happens.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@dramonic

– Less scummy lurking and more content stat. Also my question at 290 to you isn’t getting any more anwered on its own.

Magna
-There are other games besides GoW mafia where i blindly followed a claim. I think i did the same in Dramonics bastard game as well.

So you are basically saying that you blindly follow claims no matter how little credibility they have?

You didn’t answer the question I asked – are you suggesting that Chesskid is worth scrutiny as potential scum because your unvote was scummy and thus his is also?

All of these PbPa's are scummy if you ask me. I hate them >.<

Reading isn’t a hardship. If you really think providing support for assertions is scummy then maybe Mafia isn’t the game for you.

Also, his "unvote" post is troublesome primarily because it doesn't seem like he has any other suspects, and he asks for HH's comments about FaraSera and MoI rather than making a stand of his own against either of them (Of all eleven other players, why HH?).

You highlight a quote made by Ademisk himself that says he’ll be ISO FSHydra later. Why attack Ademisk for being unwilling to looking into FS and myself when he explicitly says he will.

@MoI: I think he made a bad move and got himself in trouble. When he saw an opportunity to lessen his punishment, he took it.

How does claiming what is essentially a 3rd party lyncher ‘lessen his punishment’? He’s still a prime vig target and on the off chance he isn’t killed will be lynched before he gets too close to an endgame situation where he could help out scum.

[Ademisk]

Popping in quick to address some stuff.

@HH: How is the test scummy? Someone else asked and I don't think we ever truly clarified that. And for the record, I would have been willing to be the subject. And the BC stuff again, oh boy...BC

talked

scummier but Vezok

acted

scummier. If anyone else tries to use this as an argument, try not to misrepresent. As for dram, I didn't say he was scum, merely suspicious, and I am waiting for that to truly develop before I can judge. But thanks for giving me another chance to clarify.

@MoI: Well, if he continued with the day cop charade, we would have found him out and lynched him day two. Now that he is a lyncher, a 3rd party, we're going to ignore him until near the end of the game, meaning he will likely live more than 2 days. Without speculating into PRs, if he is scum, living through even 1 extra night is bad for us. Also, apparently HH tried to discourage the vig from going after Vezok.

[xRECKONERx]

Prodding chesskid3 & dramonic.

[Dekes]

The non-voters need to vote. We are less than a week away from deadline and it's time for us to move towards lynch vicinity.

I hope, HH's second half results in a vote. His first post is definitely promising. I agree with you here, Jason has to be looked at closer. He's been flying under the radar for a while and his Iso's were too much IioA.

Dram hasn't posted in four days in this thread, yet is happily posting massively in other threads. Bad dram.
After a quick iso of him the only "useful" thing he's done was softclaiming to clear himself and BC, while he was trying to determine his suspects through PoE. Bad dram.

BC isn't helping his case. He voted jenni admitting only having skimmed her post. Then after a couple of questions were asked at him the only thing he's reacting to is a point to bring yet again his meta into play. And in his latest post he's whining about PBPA's by others.
Bottom line: No useful info for town whatsoever for quite a while now.

Ademisk's trying to appease to town too much. His FSDH Iso is rather pointless right now if it results in a townish read. And his suspects are still BC, dram and vezo, three people the majority is definitely not going to lynch. With that limited pool of suspects Ademisk is pretty much distancing himself from any possible lynch today.

Unvote; Vote: Ademisk

[Dekes]

EBWOP:

@mod

chesskid announced V/LA until 9/11 here.

Whoops.
And THAT is why you pay attention to V/LAs.

[dramonic]

What sort of inside information would you possible have that makes him a bad lynch if he isn’t Town? This needes to be answered pronto because he’s not stopped acting scumtastic.

If he is scum he should be lynched last.
You don't need to know more.

Unvote
Vote: Ademisk

I like this wagon

[jenniwren]

MagnaofIllusion

Also, his "unvote" post is troublesome primarily because it doesn't seem like he has any other suspects, and he asks for HH's comments about FaraSera and MoI rather than making a stand of his own against either of them (Of all eleven other players, why HH?).

You highlight a quote made by Ademisk himself that says he’ll be ISO FSHydra later. Why attack Ademisk for being unwilling to looking into FS and myself when he explicitly says he will.

I read that as him asking HH to comment first, which bothered me.

As he

has

posted his ISO in the interim, I will retract that comment; I suppose I was being a bit impatient per my interpretation and as I would rather someone make their own case before asking what others think. (Note, Adem also told me to have patience when he did the ISOs.)

HackerHuck

Anyway, we should maybe move away from Vez and start to look for actual scum instead of chasing lynchers. I quite like jenniwren for scum right now, Like I said earlier his interactions so far have been almost like he is trying to add nothing, while looking like he is with the lost character talk. I guess you could also see that as slight rolefishing.

vote:jenniwren

Maybe some pressure will hep him give us content

a basic pot-kettle lurker vote. I did like the vote at the time, but the tail off of that post makes it seem like he's not really looking for scum. Voting for content usually doesn't work too well and it's worse if you telegraph it.

Just one question: If you liked the vote at the time, why weren't you voting me? What is your reason for liking the vote? You hadn't even mentioned me at the time, and you didn't have a vote on anyone else (and still don't).

Adem

I am going to decline the invitation to do an ISO on MoI and FaraSera at this time; I think their intentions are fairly obviously pro-town. I don't always agree with their conclusions (most notably FS's conclusion that landed me on the "most likely to be scum" list), but that doesn't mean I think they're scum.

As for me paying too much attention to you, I think your intentions have been demonstrably scummy. Dekes put it into the words I was grasping for when he said you were distancing yourself from any lynch that might go down today, but that's pretty much the crux of what I've been driving at all week. I think that's pretty scummy because you appear to be seriously scumhunting while potentially avoiding taking any flak for a mislynch.

I can appreciate your willingness to take a risk by going after people you say you think are scummy even if it's an unpopular decision--and I daresay it's what you should do, if you have a substantial case, but do you see anything scummy about those of us who seem to be under more scrutiny and might actually be lynched now? How do you feel about a HH lynch? Or, since my name was run up on the pole, how do you feel about me? Or Jason? We've all been publicly named the most likely to be scum, so what is your reaction to those accusations?

[vezokpiraka]

HERE.
Nothing to add until ademinsk is lynched.

[BloodCovenent]

All of these PbPa's are scummy if you ask me. I hate them >.<

Reading isn’t a hardship. If you really think providing support for assertions is scummy then maybe Mafia isn’t the game for you.

No. You're wrong. When giving a Post by post analysis you are forced to look at one post at a time and do not generally look at the overall player. You write an analysis per post where you read every detail and you often over analyse small things as scummy. when doing it you may see that 10 out of 15 posts of his were scummy in Isolation. Therefore you come to the conclusion that he is scummy. After that it becomes fixated on thinking that player is scum. Thats why i don't like them.

[Faraday]

Guys sorry I've lost net and ;laptop (don't ask). Posting on faraday account as I can't remember the other accounts password offhand. I'll be back properly tomorrow I hope. Btw all the latest posts have been me.

[BloodCovenent]

@dramonic

– Less scummy lurking and more content stat. Also my question at 290 to you isn’t getting any more anwered on its own.

Magna
-There are other games besides GoW mafia where i blindly followed a claim. I think i did the same in Dramonics bastard game as well.

So you are basically saying that you blindly follow claims no matter how little credibility they have?

You didn’t answer the question I asked – are you suggesting that Chesskid is worth scrutiny as potential scum because your unvote was scummy and thus his is also?

I do often blindly follow cop like claims. Yes.

I do not see why chesskid received zero scrutiny.

[AGar]

I do not see why chesskid received zero scrutiny.

You want scrutiny on an unvote but not on a claim of any sort?

Oy vey.

This post is really bothering me. We've gone from Dram saying BC is a bad lynch (usually meaning town) to this now. Does no one else find this suspicious?

[Ademisk]

@Dekes: I ISO'd FSH for 3 reasons: HH brought him up as a hard read, there not being an ISO or something similar on him already, and me remembering I didn't like his play near the beginning of the game which made me decide to do him over MoI. ISOs do not necessarily have to turn up a scum read. If my ISOs or cases help bring something to light, I feel would have done my job.

@MoI: I'd have to agree with BC. If you have suspicions on one person for some action, why would you at the same time forgive another person for doing the same thing?

@AGar: I noticed that too, but I figured I would be nitpicking calling him on that. I don't know how legit his claim is, but I can respect him not cracking and saying too much.

Given that Vezok, Dekes, BC, and dram are protected today, I won't vote myself, and I feel FSH is towny enough (through my own research), that leaves AGar/TL, chess, HH, jason, jenni, and MoI. Of those, HH and jason stick out, so I'll check them out later. We got about a week, so don't worry I'll find a scummy enough person by then. Also note that BC became off limits after I expressed my suspicions of him, and it's not like I have just been sitting around since then.

[dramonic]

This post is really bothering me. We've gone from Dram saying BC is a bad lynch (usually meaning town) to this now. Does no one else find this suspicious?

If you weren't making assumptions you probably wouldn't so much...

[jasonT1981]

V/LA until Monday, sorry but its my Birthday this weekend and won't be about

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOD

– can we have a vote-count please?

No. You're wrong. When giving a Post by post analysis you are forced to look at one post at a time and do not generally look at the overall player. You write an analysis per post where you read every detail and you often over analyse small things as scummy. when doing it you may see that 10 out of 15 posts of his were scummy in Isolation. Therefore you come to the conclusion that he is scummy. After that it becomes fixated on thinking that player is scum. Thats why i don't like them.

1. You haven’t explained why at all PbPs are scummy. You’ve explained that you think they are ineffective. Being scummy would indicate that scum are more likely to make them then Town.
2. Digging into the details and motivations of a player is a good way to find scum, so I’ll simply say ‘No, you are wrong’ and leave it at that.
3. Your suggestion that someone who does a PbP is automatically going to fixate (translation tunnel) a person is incorrect.

@MoI: I'd have to agree with BC. If you have suspicions on one person for some action, why would you at the same time forgive another person for doing the same thing?

You are missing the important context of my questions to him.

1. First he disputes that his vote and unvote were scummy.
2. Now he’s saying ‘Why not Chesskid’.

The only reason he has to logically say ‘Chesskid should be examined’ as Town is if he feels that Chesskid voting for Dekes and then unvoting is scummy. Yet that is the exact behavior (specifics aside which I think bear much more charitably on Chesskid than BC) he has asserted wasn’t scummy when he did it.

Cognitive Dissonance right there my friend.

@Jason

– I’m not a fan of your gameplay based on a review of your ISO.

ISOs 0-4 are confirmation and RVS fluff.
ISO 13,15,17,23, 32 and 30 are regular fluff.
ISOs 7, 27, 28, and 33 are all ‘Catching up’ posts.

ISOs 5-6, are all nice broad Town sounding theoretical statements that look nice but really mean nothing in relation to the game.

ISO 8 to 12 and 14 all revolve around Vezo’s claim. The only person who gets even a FOS is FSHydra for his prodding of Vezo to come clean.

I noticed that too, It seemed like inane chatter about the show in the hopes of looking like he was blending in all while doing very little.

The statement you make about Jenni can very much be applied to you in the context of your ISO to this point involves very little scum-hunting.

ISO 18-21 are all direct interactions with Vezo who in context had already been outed as a lyncher and thus not worth hunting at the moment. Looks very much like trying to stay busy and look like you are scum-hunting while going after a safe and irrelevant target.

ISO 22 – You admit moving away from Vezo and looking for scum is a good Town idea. And yet you vote Jenni not for anything that is a scum-tell but simply to get her to ‘provide content’.

ISOs 24 to 26 are back to debating Vezo.

ISO 29 is an actual strong game related post.

ISO 30 is your PbP where you vote Ademisk. By this point Hacker and Ademisk are the strongest candidates for scum so they are both safe targets for someone not looking to make waves.

The only scum-hunting attacks you have made have been on safe or popular targets. There is enough fluff and Townie sounding theoretical discussion padding out you content that it puts my senses on edge. Little in the way of opinion.

Aside from Hacker and Ademisk who would you suspect to be a third scum?