Last Will Mafia II (Over)

[Battousai]

KMD- “Batt what information would you get from a richard town flip.”

Since I believe the initial Richard wagon formed too quickly and most likely had scum on it or had intention to vote (regardless of Richard's alignment), knowing the alignment would shift focus to how scum would act with the wagon and away from how scum would react to their partner's wagon. These posts right here is the information I received and the reason I didn't want to post it in twilight was to prevent WIFOM (scum could kill me for being right or for being wrong) and I didn't want to chance the town's reaction.

Charlie 1634- logic fail. Just because he killed millar (a townie btw), doesn't mean Ythan didn't due it as scum (though there were better targets if his plan was to kill people who are considered more likely town by the town.

Holycon 1639- Notes my joke vote/reaction. Doesn't take a stance buts wants people to notice it.

Ythan 1670- elaborate please, the post you are commenting on focuses on myself, ani, and plum. Which part was too scummy too be scum and do you find it scummy?

Xite 1690- That line is what was the focus of our exchange yesterday. What I think is tripping Nacho up is that what you actually posted was that Richard is confirmed town based on what happened the day before. Then you go on to night speculation. What I think, you think, is that the certain actions that would lead to Richard as being confirmed town is what you posted after you said Richard is confirmed town (the nightkill speculation). You confirming Richard should have came after the nightkill speculation in that post, not before.

Plum 1697- Before I started rereading the thread, I read the final vote count of the previous day. Then when Ythan claimed to have killed Millar, I found it hard to believe he would kill someone he didn't suspect enough to vote against. I unvoted due to Ythan saying Millar claimed day-BP.


Ythan, please participate. You said you had more time for the game, but you've done nothing today and little yesterday.

..........................

I believe once scum knew there was a counter claim, they believed one of the two would be lynched. I think they would jump on early. I left out Ythan since he counterclaimed and I believe town/scum would vote Ricard then, equally.

Locke vote is early, however he backs up his vote with previous day actions (though vague).

(Locke)

SSBF's vote is early as well. This whole post strikes me as off. Wants Richard to share his information, but is voting him. This is telling me he thinks Richard is scum (the vote) but at the same time talks to Richard as if he is town. That, combined with stating he supports a lynch on 3-4 others if Richard doesn't get lynched puts him as more likely scum than Locke.

(SSBF>Locke)

Xite's vote is only the 4th (based on the number of players not actual number of votes). With so many still alive, I would classify this as early. I do not like the fact that you expected Ythan to counter claim, but earlier you state you are more apt to believe Richard is town due to meta (however you then go on
to say he is either scum or a detriment to the town and should be lynched).

(SSBF>Xite>Locke)

Jahudo vote is early (player wise, but vote wise is mid to near end). Doesn't give reason for why. However he waits for a vote count before voting (or a confirmation that it wasn't too near end.

(SSBF>Xite>Jahudo>Locke)

Chrono puts wagon at L-2 and uses IIoA (seems to shrug off commenting on whether Richard is scummy and sticks to it being impossible for him to be telling the truth based on his claimed role).

(SSBF>Chrono>Xite>Jahudo>Locke)

Ani puts Richard at L-1, with no reason why, though unvotes when notices it is L-1

(SSBF>Ani>Chrono>Xite>Jahudo>Locke)

Amished has intent to hammer. Questions Richard, even though he doesn't seem to care about the answer. I see no reason why he wouldn't hammer, then if he was town.

(SSBF>Ani>Chrono>Amished>Xite>Jahudo>Locke)

Magua doesn't explicitly claim to want to hammer Richard but states doesn't want day to end, so I believe he was thinking of hammering.

(SSBF>Ani>Chrono>Amished>Xite>Jaudo>Locke>Magua)

Holycon doesn't issue a want to vote for Richard, but he does believe Ythan over Richard. Logic fail in post, calling Ythan town for having a power. I find this in and of itself scummy.

Vote: SSBF

for now. I like having my vote out without it being backed up by random. Will focus more of a case tomorrow as I gotta get home.

[Plum]

...

Right. We disagree, I'll hazard that you're probably Town, you think I'm scum.

Uhm... ok? My vote's going to stay for the slight buddying up

I'm just summing up the situation. You're wrong about me, but. You seem basically sincere about it, at any rate.

[Locke Lamora]

Having a very busy time at work right now, will all be cleared by tomorrow so I will be catching up then.

[Chronopie]

KMD- “Batt what information would you get from a richard town flip.”

Since I believe the initial Richard wagon formed too quickly and most likely had scum on it or had intention to vote (regardless of Richard's alignment), knowing the alignment would shift focus to how scum would act with the wagon and away from how scum would react to their partner's wagon. These posts right here is the information I received and the reason I didn't want to post it in twilight was to prevent WIFOM (scum could kill me for being right or for being wrong) and I didn't want to chance the town's reaction.

Charlie 1634- logic fail. Just because he killed millar (a townie btw), doesn't mean Ythan didn't due it as scum (though there were better targets if his plan was to kill people who are considered more likely town by the town.

Holycon 1639- Notes my joke vote/reaction. Doesn't take a stance buts wants people to notice it.

Ythan 1670- elaborate please, the post you are commenting on focuses on myself, ani, and plum. Which part was too scummy too be scum and do you find it scummy?

Xite 1690- That line is what was the focus of our exchange yesterday. What I think is tripping Nacho up is that what you actually posted was that Richard is confirmed town based on what happened the day before. Then you go on to night speculation. What I think, you think, is that the certain actions that would lead to Richard as being confirmed town is what you posted after you said Richard is confirmed town (the nightkill speculation). You confirming Richard should have came after the nightkill speculation in that post, not before.

Plum 1697- Before I started rereading the thread, I read the final vote count of the previous day. Then when Ythan claimed to have killed Millar, I found it hard to believe he would kill someone he didn't suspect enough to vote against. I unvoted due to Ythan saying Millar claimed day-BP.


Ythan, please participate. You said you had more time for the game, but you've done nothing today and little yesterday.

..........................

I believe once scum knew there was a counter claim, they believed one of the two would be lynched. I think they would jump on early. I left out Ythan since he counterclaimed and I believe town/scum would vote Ricard then, equally.

Locke vote is early, however he backs up his vote with previous day actions (though vague).

(Locke)

SSBF's vote is early as well. This whole post strikes me as off. Wants Richard to share his information, but is voting him. This is telling me he thinks Richard is scum (the vote) but at the same time talks to Richard as if he is town. That, combined with stating he supports a lynch on 3-4 others if Richard doesn't get lynched puts him as more likely scum than Locke.

(SSBF>Locke)

Xite's vote is only the 4th (based on the number of players not actual number of votes). With so many still alive, I would classify this as early. I do not like the fact that you expected Ythan to counter claim, but earlier you state you are more apt to believe Richard is town due to meta (however you then go on
to say he is either scum or a detriment to the town and should be lynched).

(SSBF>Xite>Locke)

Jahudo vote is early (player wise, but vote wise is mid to near end). Doesn't give reason for why. However he waits for a vote count before voting (or a confirmation that it wasn't too near end.

(SSBF>Xite>Jahudo>Locke)

Chrono puts wagon at L-2 and uses IIoA (seems to shrug off commenting on whether Richard is scummy and sticks to it being impossible for him to be telling the truth based on his claimed role).

(SSBF>Chrono>Xite>Jahudo>Locke)

Ani puts Richard at L-1, with no reason why, though unvotes when notices it is L-1

(SSBF>Ani>Chrono>Xite>Jahudo>Locke)

Amished has intent to hammer. Questions Richard, even though he doesn't seem to care about the answer. I see no reason why he wouldn't hammer, then if he was town.

(SSBF>Ani>Chrono>Amished>Xite>Jahudo>Locke)

Magua doesn't explicitly claim to want to hammer Richard but states doesn't want day to end, so I believe he was thinking of hammering.

(SSBF>Ani>Chrono>Amished>Xite>Jaudo>Locke>Magua)

Holycon doesn't issue a want to vote for Richard, but he does believe Ythan over Richard. Logic fail in post, calling Ythan town for having a power. I find this in and of itself scummy.

Vote: SSBF

for now. I like having my vote out without it being backed up by random. Will focus more of a case tomorrow as I gotta get home.

Holy Wallpost of QFT.

My Assertion was that

IF

Ythan = One Shot Vig

AND

Richard = CPR-Doc,

THEN

Millar =/= Dead. Result: False. Therefore one of Ythan or Richard was lying about role. Ythan seemed townier.

And Richard flipped VT. Therefore he was lying

Scum

Town. (But seriously, wtf did he claim CPR-Doc for?)

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Currently responding to Xite91's case on me.

---

Plum's Day 4 posting looks erratic to me, compared to her Day 3 play, where she exhibited more town behavior.

I agree with Xite91 that I didn't like the first paragraph of Plum's first post yesterday. I don't see how town could know how two players were not blocked, the only way you would know that two players were not blocked is if you are scum or a town with a role blocking ability. Regardless, it is scummy. And no, editing that quote doesn't do anything to recitify that.

Also Plum, you should have been caught up by now. You admitted to be struggling a lot, which looks like you haven't caught up yet. If you haven't caught up, did you attempt to catch up during the Night? If not, why not?

I believe once scum knew there was a counter claim, they believed one of the two would be lynched. I think they would jump on early.

While scums can be in any part of the bandwagon, I disagree that scums are more likely to jump on the bandwagon early. Rather, I still believe that they would jump on later/without reasons. People who voted for RichardGHP early I believe are more likely to be townies because there was no clear direction in which the lynch was going. People who voted late, specially those without reasoning, are more likely to be scum because by then, a bandwagon on that person has been established and a lynch on that person is less likely to happen, plus people before have already explained, so they are less likely to give sufficent reasons to join the wagon.

SSBF's vote is early as well. This whole post strikes me as off. Wants Richard to share his information, but is voting him. This is telling me he thinks Richard is scum (the vote) but at the same time talks to Richard as if he is town. That, combined with stating he supports a lynch on 3-4 others if Richard doesn't get lynched puts him as more likely scum than Locke.

1. I wanted RichardGHP to share information with us because I wanted to see if RichardGHP was actually CPR Doctor or that if he was fakeclaiming scum.

2. Not seeing that at all. I had thought that RichardGHP was likely scum and I supported evidence that he was scum throughout Day 2 and Day 3. Day 3, I was pretty certain that he was scum due to his claim which I believe was false and previous scummy actions.

3. Just because I supported RichardGHP the most didn't mean that he had to be lynched that day or I would throw a fit over it. If he wasn't lynched on that day, I was willing to compromise for Charlie/Chronopie/animorpherv1 as well as they themself have been scummy as well.

[Plum]

Also Plum, you should have been caught up by now. You admitted to be struggling a lot, which looks like you haven't caught up yet. If you haven't caught up, did you attempt to catch up during the Night? If not, why not?

No, I didn't, because lacking interest in a game is a vicious cycle and because I was busy with other things.

I don't see how town could know how two players were not blocked, the only way you would know that two players were not blocked is if you are scum or a town with a role blocking ability.

This is disingenuous - by your logic, assuming I'm a Town blocking powerrole I wouldn't know either, because in that case either I'd have blocked someone other than Richard/Ythan and not known whether a scum blocker went after either, or I'd have blocked one of them that Night and

have indicated yesterday that one of them got blocked and we should take that into account

. Again, no blocking happening on either of them was an assumption I was willing to list as very probable

yesterday

, due to lack on Twomz blockage. We didn't have the flip then, so I wouldn't have made assumptions like which of them would've been scum and how scum would've acted then before the flip. Now we do have a flip, and it's proved that Richard was a liar, albeit a Town-aligned liar. Assuming Ythan-Town, no block, scum would've been very confused and yet very happy: Two townies seemed to have caught themselves in a you-or-me-one-is-a-scumbag situation, and might've exhibited, in retrospect, strange behavior because or either cautiousness with the situation (waiting on certain factors to maximize mislynch potential in the event of new information in the ongoing situation) or otherwise (excess enthusiasm, and any behavior out of the ordinary - like Kmd calling Richard Town and Ythan not so much, for example).

[Xite91]

Xite 1690- That line is what was the focus of our exchange yesterday. What I think is tripping Nacho up is that what you actually posted was that Richard is confirmed town based on what happened the day before. Then you go on to night speculation. What I think, you think, is that the certain actions that would lead to Richard as being confirmed town is what you posted after you said Richard is confirmed town (the nightkill speculation). You confirming Richard should have came after the nightkill speculation in that post, not before.

Oh my fucking god if I have to say it again I'm going to commit mafia suicide. I did not say he was CONFIRMED town, I said I was more likely to believe he was town at that point. Please stop misrepresenting my post to make it look like I KNEW he was town because as I said, NOTHING is certain unless you have inside information. Which I don't.

Xite's vote is only the 4th (based on the number of players not actual number of votes). With so many still alive, I would classify this as early. I do not like the fact that you expected Ythan to counter claim,

but earlier you state you are more apt to believe Richard is town due to meta

(however you then go on
to say he is either scum or a detriment to the town and should be lynched).

bolded. Please quote this, because I don't remember it.
I remember saying he is probtown AFTER the whole claim thing because ideas clicked like a room full of mousetraps.
Also, I explained why I expected it. Read the day before

Chrono puts wagon at L-2 and uses IIoA (seems to shrug off commenting on whether Richard is scummy and sticks to it being impossible for him to be telling the truth based on his claimed role).

(SSBF>Chrono>Xite>Jahudo>Locke)

Ani puts Richard at L-1, with no reason why, though unvotes when notices it is L-1

(SSBF>Ani>Chrono>Xite>Jahudo>Locke)

Amished has intent to hammer. Questions Richard, even though he doesn't seem to care about the answer. I see no reason why he wouldn't hammer, then if he was town.

(SSBF>Ani>Chrono>Amished>Xite>Jahudo>Locke)

Magua doesn't explicitly claim to want to hammer Richard but states doesn't want day to end, so I believe he was thinking of hammering.

Not seeing how you're getting your ideas of who's more scummy than who based off of what you're giving us. I definitely would not put Ani that high based on just that little line. Same with Amished, how does it seem like he doesn't care about the answer?
Also, why isn't Magua scummy when he did the same as Amished minus the question?

...

Right. We disagree, I'll hazard that you're probably Town, you think I'm scum.

Uhm... ok? My vote's going to stay for the slight buddying up

I'm just summing up the situation. You're wrong about me, but. You seem basically sincere about it, at any rate.

"You're wrong, but the only reason I gave why is because I meant to add full sentences to that post that I made." That's what I'm seeing.

1. I wanted RichardGHP to share information with us because I wanted to see if RichardGHP was actually CPR Doctor or that if he was fakeclaiming scum.

2. Not seeing that at all. I had thought that RichardGHP was likely scum and I supported evidence that he was scum throughout Day 2 and Day 3. Day 3, I was pretty certain that he was scum due to his claim which I believe was false and previous scummy actions.

3. Just because I supported RichardGHP the most didn't mean that he had to be lynched that day or I would throw a fit over it. If he wasn't lynched on that day, I was willing to compromise for Charlie/Chronopie/animorpherv1 as well as they themself have been scummy as well.

1) But didn't you direct him yesterday? And even if you didn't, I know you saw how many other people did.

Also, where's your response to me again?

@Plum - That still doesn't change the fact that YOU WERE TALKING AS IF HE ALREADY FLIPPED AND/OR YOU KNEW HIS ALIGNMENT. Given that you are obviously not caught up yet, I can see that as a scumslip.

[esuriospiritus]

Whoo! I called in to work today and am... mostly caught up. I skimmed a lot of the longer posts, and I only sort of re-read anything that happened in between when I replaced in and when I actually started paying attention to what was going on in the present state of the game, buuuuuut I've gotten all the meatiest parts I think, so yay. More thorough reading to come later I hope.

If I can get not-busy and not-lazy (an uncommon combination) I will do a vote analysis of days 2/3. I don't feel like either of them will be as fruitful as day 1.

Also Plum, you should have been caught up by now. You admitted to be struggling a lot, which looks like you haven't caught up yet. If you haven't caught up, did you attempt to catch up during the Night? If not, why not?

@SSBF, is there a reason you've pressured Plum to be fully caught up but haven't said anything to me about taking

my

sweet ass time catching up? Just curious.

@Nacho: What do you think of the Plum/raider slot? What do you think of my day 1 vote analysis, and stated suspicion of you? (While I'm at it, what do you think of my suspicion of Ani?)

[Rhinox]

Getting caught up from last week. Holiday weekend and all.

I like Esurio's bandwagon analysis in 1663, but I think I can come to a slightly different conclusion. Given the 2 scenario's:

1.) Raider/Plum slot is scum, or

2.) Everyone being bandwagoned here is town, and scum were sitting back and laughing, in which case there is scum in this group of people: {animorpherv1 (2 posts), chronopie (3 posts), Jahudo (0 posts), Locke Lamora (0 posts), Nachomamma8 (0 posts), SSBF (3 posts), Ythan (3 posts)}

Rather than decide which of these is more likely, I think there is a case to be made for scum if either case is true. Esurio already did the work, but interpretted it incorrectly IMO. If the SV wagon was scum driven, it supports theory #1 above. If theory #2 is assumed, then there is no reason to believe the SV wagon was scum driven. So, cross-referencing the SV wagon with the list of names in #2 gives a list of players who fit as scum regardless of which of the above theories is true: {Ythan, SSBF, ani}. Of that list, I prefer SSBF or ani lynches much much more than an Ythan lynch.

Also, to the people voting ani... is he being opportunistic or is he just acting noobish? Would scum-ani try and get an opportunistic lynch on me instead of someone else (ie SSBF who was the second leading wagon at the end of yesterday)?

I don't think he's being noobish, and I don't think he was trying to get an opportunistic lynch. I think he was looking to avoid hammering richard as he said he would do, and now today is looking to avoid scum hunting altogether.

@Rhinox, why no real response to Ythan's counterclaim of Richard? Especially given that you said you were interested in hearing if there was one?

I spent a good part of the day arguing that I thought both were telling the truth. Or were you looking for a different response?

@Ani: why are you still voting Batt?

[Ythan]

Anyone come after me yesterday who knew that the lynch would be Richard and that he'd flip town?

[Battousai]

Chrono- To me, it seemed like you weren't giving any input, just restating facts and using the facts to say this is the truth. You don't comment on past play by Richard, why Richard would lie, whether you believe the Ythan claim over a Richard claim and why. That, to me, seems like you are getting rid of responsibility because facts cannot be disputed, whereas what you feel and why can be.

SSBF- I think scum can jump on later, but that is usually a tell of not knowing who would be lynched and not wanting to put forward a strong case to get the wagon forming. In this case, there was reason for the lynch and it seemed that a Ythan/Richard lynch would be inevitable. So, in order to avoid the scrutiny of being near the end of the wagon, they would vote sooner rather than later. This is all WIFOM, but I still believe my theory is more likely correct.

I just felt that post was off. If you felt that Richard was lieing, as proposed by your vote, you would think others would as well. I think that if you felt that one of them was lieing scum (since you didn't think it was Ythan, it would be Richard) you would think the lynch of the day would be Richard/Ythan (moreso Richard). Why you brought up being satisfied with other lynches in the same post (meaning nothing had changed from your vote), is off as it shows that you believed that Richard/Ythan may escape the noose.

xite-

Unvote

Just realized something.
Yesterday him and Ythan were speaking cryptically all day yesterday.
If you paid attention, you would notice that Ythan did claim to have a one shot kill.
Multiple people did tell Richard to kill Millar.
Ythan did hint that he was going to kill Millar.

This would have

Meaning you are talking about the above

confirmed at least richard as town

Since above happened, = ricard is confirmed town

.

Below is night speculation, which you MEANT to say if this happened it would mean Richard is confirmed town

Okay that's the recap.
But hey, scum can be pretty crafty.
For instance, they killed twomz last night, proving that he was an inventor.
Therefore proving Ythan's one-shot.
Next, if they block Richard, they get rid of Ythan's one shot, kill a townie, and line up a lynch for the next day.
I'm going to believe Richard's claim for now.
That being said,

Vote:SSBF

What you said is not what you meant. I'm not calling you scum for it anymore as I have realized this. I'm just pointing out for Nacho that you did not word this post correctly and that is what is causing the confusion. Understand? If not, I'm not talking about it anymore and hopefully Nacho understands, so you won't bang your head into a wall.

Spoiler: more apt to believe Richard town based on meta, bolded

I'm still good with my vote. I don't see how a wagon on him prevented a catchup post to identify his suspects when he had about 3-4 days since his previous post.

Hey xite, do you have any Richard games in mind that I could read and see the extent of his scumhunting?

Well a lot of what I looked at were games still going on (because I read the first few pages of his site ISO) But here are a few I found that were completed, sorted by role;

Town

Christmas time mafia <---- Holy hell multiple paragraphs of text? And I see actual explanations for things too.
Mafia in hell, Michigan <----

This one has me more apt to believe he's town in this game

, but if you read it, he still tries to help a little bit, Although he pulls a terrible gambit in this one, too.

Mafia
Seemingly Normal Mafia <---- Still some points with multiple points of text, but a lot less of that, also he had to be replaced out. I'll also have you note that in his ISO, I found a point where he votes someone and says Oh My God, You Suck. Familiar?

There like two more (I think), but I lost them in my mass amount of tabs. Besides, you could take the time to do a little research on your own

That is why I gave my information so you can know what I'm drawing from if you do not understand (in retrospect I should have used spoiler tags to avoid unnecessary wall post). The rating is based on who voted Richard and those who voiced intent to vote. Therefore, when judging on who should be higher or lower, take into consideration it is a limited pool and minor differences can push someone farther up the chain. The first 3 I would label as scummy, and would definitely consider voting or at least need more focus put onto them.

Putting Richard at L-1 without explaining why (which leads to assumptions which can be defended by "I didn't think that") is pretty scummy. His unvote showed either he didn't know the vote count and didn't want the hammer to happen yet (voting without knowing the VC is anti-town at best) or he wants to appear to be hesitant in a hammer (which is scummy).

Amished's question is what made it scummy. He basically says that he doesn't think the answer will affect his reason to vote. Therefore the question seemed to be more a formality to what a townie would do. However this isn't a strong tell and is why he is only 4th.

....

ISOing SSBF now, ani later, chrono even later this game day.

[Amished]

Stupid holiday weekend.

Hopefully I can get a post up tonight catching up with what I missed.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

animorpherv1 (6) - Jahudo, Rhinox, Super Smash Bros. Fan
Super Smash Bros. Fan (3) - Xite91, Amished, Battosuai
Xite91 (3) - nachomamma8, kmd4390
nachomamma8 (1) - Charlie
Plum (1) - esuriospiritus
Battosuai (1) - animorpherv1
Charlie (1) - Plum
holycon (1) - Locke Lamora

Not Voting (3) - Chronopie, holycon, Ythan

[Xite91]

xite-

Unvote

Just realized something.
Yesterday him and Ythan were speaking cryptically all day yesterday.
If you paid attention, you would notice that Ythan did claim to have a one shot kill.
Multiple people did tell Richard to kill Millar.
Ythan did hint that he was going to kill Millar.

This would have

Meaning you are talking about the above

confirmed at least richard as town

Since above happened, = ricard is confirmed town

.

What you said is not what you meant. I'm not calling you scum for it anymore as I have realized this. I'm just pointing out for Nacho that you did not word this post correctly and that is what is causing the confusion. Understand? If not, I'm not talking about it anymore and hopefully Nacho understands, so you won't bang your head into a wall.

Spoiler: more apt to believe Richard town based on meta, bolded

I'm still good with my vote. I don't see how a wagon on him prevented a catchup post to identify his suspects when he had about 3-4 days since his previous post.

Hey xite, do you have any Richard games in mind that I could read and see the extent of his scumhunting?

Well a lot of what I looked at were games still going on (because I read the first few pages of his site ISO) But here are a few I found that were completed, sorted by role;

Town

Christmas time mafia <---- Holy hell multiple paragraphs of text? And I see actual explanations for things too.
Mafia in hell, Michigan <----

This one has me more apt to believe he's town in this game

, but if you read it, he still tries to help a little bit, Although he pulls a terrible gambit in this one, too.

Mafia
Seemingly Normal Mafia <---- Still some points with multiple points of text, but a lot less of that, also he had to be replaced out. I'll also have you note that in his ISO, I found a point where he votes someone and says Oh My God, You Suck. Familiar?

There like two more (I think), but I lost them in my mass amount of tabs. Besides, you could take the time to do a little research on your own

Your first quote of mine - That was me giving the basics of what would happen. Did I say to me? No. I said that if things had gone through and both Ythan and Richard had hit millar, millar would still be alive and it would have confirmed richard as town. These events DID NOT happen. Therefore, it was different than what I wrote and he was not confirmed town.

The twomz kill was what made me unvote richard (it was proof that Ythan got the kill, why else would scum kill him then instead of the night before?)

Your spoiler tags about me - Again, you're misrepresenting what I was saying, that ONE game made me more apt to believe he's town, but the other one didn't. Again, it really wasn't worth much because he was inconsistent in them, which is why I didn't take them very far.

I see now where you got your ideas for where at least a little better, but I'm still not completely sure ani should be as far up there as he is, it seems almost like you're following the crowd a bit with that one.

[animorpherv1]

Rhinox:

ATM I'm just waiting for a wagon I want to join, and I see no harm in keeping it where it is, as none else is going to vote there anyways.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Still working on the rebuttal against Xite91 and Plum defense on me.

---

1) But didn't you direct him yesterday? And even if you didn't, I know you saw how many other people did.

Read my ISO Day 2 and I don't remember doing this. Will check back tomorrow to see if I had or not.

Also, where's your response to me again?

Currently working on it.

@SSBF, is there a reason you've pressured Plum to be fully caught up but haven't said anything to me about taking my sweet ass time catching up? Just curious.

The difference between you and Plum is mainly your Day 4 play. I see a lot more town motivation for your Day 4 play, more contributing, more scum hunting, and more of what I would expect from a townie. Plus you are on LA so I can understand that.

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho: What do you think of the Plum/raider slot? What do you think of my day 1 vote analysis, and stated suspicion of you? (While I'm at it, what do you think of my suspicion of Ani?)

Plum is town.
I'm not going to pretend to understand your day 1 vote analysis.
Your suspicion of me is understated and wrong (I mean, what did you expect me to say...?)
Your suspicion of Ani is also understated, but probably right.

Any reason why you chose to call me out at this point?

[Nachomamma8]

@Xite: I'm going to do a bit more rereading on you know. The Richard thing makes sense to me now, but I'm still having trouble understanding why you dropped the SSBF case so readily...

But I will reread, (I'll most likely have time on either Thursday or Friday), so I'll give you something more solid to defend against/drop the case then. For now though, my vote stays.

[LlamaFluff]

holycon, jahudo and charlie have been prodded.

Deadline is September 17th.
With 23 Votes in play it takes 12 to lynch.

[Charlie]

Oh dear. I have been prodded. That doesn't usually happen, but it just did!

My thoughts on people:

01 Amished - neutral
02 rhinox -town
03 nachomamma8 - mafia
04 Ythan - town
05 Plum - mafia
06 Super Smash Bros. Fan - neutral
08 chronopie - neutral
09 Jahudo - town
10 Battousai - town
16 Xite91 - neutral
17 esuriospiritus - town
18 Locke Lamora - neutral
19 kmd4390 - town
20 animorpherv1 - neutral
22 holycon - town

That's a really simplified version, but yep I'll be voting based on this for now.

[Xite91]

@Xite: I'm going to do a bit more rereading on you know. The Richard thing makes sense to me now, but I'm still having trouble understanding why you dropped the SSBF case so readily...

But I will reread, (I'll most likely have time on either Thursday or Friday), so I'll give you something more solid to defend against/drop the case then. For now though, my vote stays.

I did not drop the case, no one has commented on it, so I haven't had a chance to defend it.
When people comment on it, I will defend it.

Also, why do you feel plum is town?

[Chronopie]

Chrono- To me, it seemed like you weren't giving any input, just restating facts and using the facts to say this is the truth. You don't comment on past play by Richard, why Richard would lie, whether you believe the Ythan claim over a Richard claim and why. That, to me, seems like you are getting rid of responsibility because facts cannot be disputed, whereas what you feel and why can be.

I can accept this reasoning. It actually is fairly close to my actual reasons. I felt the fact, being indisputable, as they were, were a better case than I could make by myself. Although I do/would take responsibility, should I misinterpret said facts.

I didn't see the point behind posting my own opinions on Richard's/Ythan's play, as the facts (there's that word again), clearly pointed to a certain sequence of events (failing to) transpire, thus my opinions, which are fair more mutable, and open to individual interpretation, would have been extraneous.

[holycon]

Oh dear. I have been prodded. That doesn't usually happen, but it just did!

My thoughts on people:

01 Amished - neutral
02 rhinox -town
03 nachomamma8 - mafia
04 Ythan - town
05 Plum - mafia
06 Super Smash Bros. Fan - neutral
08 chronopie - neutral
09 Jahudo - town
10 Battousai - town
16 Xite91 - neutral
17 esuriospiritus - town
18 Locke Lamora - neutral
19 kmd4390 - town
20 animorpherv1 - neutral
22 holycon - town

That's a really simplified version, but yep I'll be voting based on this for now.

So you don't have a scum read on anyone?

[Rhinox]

Rhinox:

ATM I'm just waiting for a wagon I want to join, and I see no harm in keeping it where it is, as none else is going to vote there anyways.

So... do you still think Batt is scum or no? Who DO you think is scum? Why don't you do some scum hunting and try to form your own wagon, rather than waiting for a wagon to join? Thats not very pro-town.

[Charlie]

So you don't have a scum read on anyone?

Excuse me?