NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[Mysterio]

Wow, we have votes on 10 different people. Obvious scum derailment of Wraith wagon.

@Xite, you need to fully explain why you think Wraith is town. Your weird iso of him doesn't even remotely suggest that he could be town.

@Kise, would you be willing to die in a lake of fire if prozac flips town?

@UltimaAvalon, be more useless.

@flinter, explain why you're voting for me and not bussing your buddy Wraith. You'll get a lot more town points that way.

[Gorrad]

I'm liking a Mysterio wagon less and less.

[flinter]

@flinter, explain why you're voting for me and not bussing your buddy Wraith. You'll get a lot more town points that way.

Since the answer on this question can already be found in thread (I have already told you why I think you are scum). Further, I have stated I don't believe the wraith wagon is accurate.

So, this question only has one purpose: to show that Mysterio is thinking about a Wraith-Flinter scumteam without actually saying it. I like my town players when they don't hide their opinions. Why this "question"?

[Mysterio]

@flinter, explain why you're voting for me and not bussing your buddy Wraith. You'll get a lot more town points that way.

Since the answer on this question can already be found in thread (I have already told you why I think you are scum). Further, I have stated I don't believe the wraith wagon is accurate.

So, this question only has one purpose: to show that Mysterio is thinking about a Wraith-Flinter scumteam without actually saying it. I like my town players when they don't hide their opinions. Why this "question"?

You have no reasoning whatsoever. What little parroted reasoning you had Day 1 was immediately shot down, hence why you didn't respond to it and ended up switching your vote to singersigner. Now you're claiming that my response didn't convince you and so you've voted me again (parroting Shanba this time). Start bussing and earn yourself some townie points, please.

[Xite91]

Also, I just realized I hadn't made this point yet, which is odd because I usually do in such a situation. All those posts where Wraith's only point is to try for townpoints? Hey, guess what- TOWN DOESN'T NEED TOWNPOINTS. Town needs other people's scumpoints. Scum need townpoints. A townie goes into a game of mafia saying 'Hey, let's find the scum'. A scum goes into a game of mafia saying 'Hey, I'm gonna try to not be lynched'.

To everyone: Of those two categories, can you REALLY see Wraith in the former more than the latter? If he were honestly town, if he sooooo didn't want to play the game he signed up for by scumhunting, which is what town do in a mafia game, he'd have left by now.

I can honestly see where you're coming from with Wraith, I really can, but please look at him in ISO and read him, first as if he were scum, then as if he were noobtown. Which one makes more sense?

Preview edit: Dammit. And I just changed my vote too

1. hardly any of my stuff is truly WIFOM
2. if my opinion can be discredited so can yours, almost everything you have posted being scummy about me is your opinion, so using your own logic it can be discredited, especially if you are mafia (which I am beginning to think you are)
3. I can easily say you are wrong when you say I am scum, cause YOU ARE WRONG. I am not scum,I am pro-town. This is not my opinion, this is FACT. only way to prove it though is at the end of the game, or when I am lynched, or if I am killed.
4. changing bandwagons this late in a game is scummy, especially since you have no proof or really no substantial evidence I am scum. All your accusations towards me are baseless and biased. You went back with the intent of finding me scum, so you take everything I say and twist it to make it seem like scum. If somebody went back and tried to prove I was town, they could easily take those same words and twist it to show I was town.

It seems like you are trying to our as many townies as you can and this is very suspicious and scummy.[/quote]

This is easier if you number what you quoted too. Makes more sense reading.
1) I pointed out what was WIFOM
2) Yes, everyone's opinion can be DISCREDITED, but not everyone's points can be DISPROVED. You're supposed to do the second, not the first.
3) Wow... okay, then lets prove it, huh? Because I'm almost positive you're scum. Are YOU going to start with the whole "town will lose without me" thing?
4) I just posted some proof, and that wasn't even getting into your truly scummy posts (to lazy to full ISO). Prove it, go back and give a town motivation for at least everything I gave a scum motivation for, if not more. And an actual town motivation, not just "oh, well what you say is wrong"

My opinion on walls of text.
Gorrad: town
Xite: scummy
Robbnva: neutral
Mysterio: town
hiphop: scummy
If the Wraith wagon actually does fall apart, I would definitely vote for hiphop or Xite, preferably hiphop, since Xite hasn't been too scummy before this whole thing.

This is so ironic. I'm really starting to see dana/robbie, and since I feel dana can't be scum without wraith, maybe he's back in that list too. But really Wraith needs to post more before I make that decision

@ wicked no I am not sure he is 100% scum but you seem to know that he is 100% not scum and there is only a few ways you could know that.

@ Kise - so you got lucky in 1 game and you think you are the designated GF hunter? as charlie brown would say "Good Grief"

@ gorrad - when accused of being scum, yeah town needs to proclaim they are town. I did not proclaim I was town until Xite questioned me and said he was pretty sure I am scum. I am not changing my vote on Wraith until we have something more tangible, the reasons I am voting him is good enough for me at the moment. he is the person who I most think is scum right now.

your @ Wicked - But wasn't part of your defense against me that I don't %100 know you're scum? So why would you be going after wraith then? (correct me if I'm wrong on that, but I do distinctly remember something to that effect being posted by you)

your @ kise - Honestly, why don't you ask him how he got to that conclusion? I've seen things like this before and they can be oddly accurate.
So @Kise - how did you come to that conclusion?

your @ Gorrad - Town needs to defend themselves, not go "you're wrong I'm town" Get over yourself

Gorrad, have I got this straight? You're saying that proclaiming your pro-townness is scummy? It's really not. A lot of newer players who get frustrated when they have wagons on them will start just screaming that they're town because nothign else seems to be working. In my experience, proclaiming yourself town is a newbtell, not a scumtell.

Building a case on Prozac tomorrow. Also, hi guys, I'm back!

It's not unless you do it in certain ways, read the way robbie did it, then it should make sense

In my experience, Shanba, yeah. It's scummy. It's been my opinion since the first game I played that a town player's main focus should be on scumhunting. Defensive posts, posts proclaiming one's towniness, all those take a back seat to, I dunno, trying to win.

Again, it depends on how it's done

I'm about a pg behind....but

Robb

, please stop with the inquote blue response posting...it's killing me to read, and hard to comment on.

QFT

Wow, we have votes on 10 different people. Obvious scum derailment of Wraith wagon.

@Xite, you need to fully explain why you think Wraith is town. Your weird iso of him doesn't even remotely suggest that he could be town.

@Kise, would you be willing to die in a lake of fire if prozac flips town?

@UltimaAvalon, be more useless.

@flinter, explain why you're voting for me and not bussing your buddy Wraith. You'll get a lot more town points that way.

Oh? It's just obvscum derailment? It couldn't possibly be that quite a few people actually think Wraith isn't the top dog in the list of possible scum? Now, everyone voting someone else is definitely scum. You're right. If I didn't have a policy against it, I'd self-vote right now [/hopefullyobvioussarcasm]

Your @ me - It's because rereading his ISO, he just seems like either newb or terrible town. I don't think he's the lynch for today or until we find some real connections with some other players that flip scum.

Also, that whole post looks a lot like you're just trying to get as much suspicion out there. Also, where are YOUR opinions? I'd like to see them.
Starting with your reason for voting wraith (I don't remember seeing a good one)

I'm liking a Mysterio wagon less and less.

What based on a terrible post?
Or is it because he agrees with you?
Explain plox

[flinter]

You have no reasoning whatsoever. What little parroted reasoning you had Day 1 was immediately shot down, hence why you didn't respond to it and ended up switching your vote to singersigner. Now you're claiming that my response didn't convince you and so you've voted me again (parroting Shanba this time). Start bussing and earn yourself some townie points, please.

My reasoning never was shot down

and if you have something against me, vote. Be a man and state what you think and why you think it, don't use these subjective posts.

[Bunnylover]

You guys didn't know I'm the Godfather Hunter? Lynch Porochaz, see his flip, then be amazed.

@hiphop: Do you still want me to answer that "question" of yours.... (?_?)
Also, how in the world did you expect people to know you were randomly voting Wraith at the top of the game? You carried a serious tone so there's nothing for anyone else to detect randomness behind it. People have had this argument many a time in MD, but I personally don't believe that every game has a set stage that requires everyone to be random. In your case, I think it was just convenient for you to throw down the excuse that your D1 vote was random so you could lazily avoid explaining that wack bandwagon request.

Blah, wouldn't it be easier if you point out how you relate Porochaz to GodFather before we make a decision to follow you.

[Xite91]

You guys didn't know I'm the Godfather Hunter? Lynch Porochaz, see his flip, then be amazed.

@hiphop: Do you still want me to answer that "question" of yours.... (?_?)
Also, how in the world did you expect people to know you were randomly voting Wraith at the top of the game? You carried a serious tone so there's nothing for anyone else to detect randomness behind it. People have had this argument many a time in MD, but I personally don't believe that every game has a set stage that requires everyone to be random. In your case, I think it was just convenient for you to throw down the excuse that your D1 vote was random so you could lazily avoid explaining that wack bandwagon request.

Blah, wouldn't it be easier if you point out how you relate Porochaz to GodFather before we make a decision to follow you.

hey bunny, I have a question... do you read massposts?

[Lowell]

unvote, vote poro

to find a wagon that sticks.

[danakillsu]

This is so ironic. I'm really starting to see dana/robbie, and since I feel dana can't be scum without wraith, maybe he's back in that list too. But really Wraith needs to post more before I make that decision

Why is it ironic and why are you seeing this as a scumteam?
I think you're just mad because I pointed out your scumminess in derailing the Wraith wagon, voting for Wraith again, and unvoting him again. Wishy-washiness on the main wagon is extremely scummy.

[Xite91]

Okay, starting from my gambit (post # 896), here's how things go in Xite-vision
All numbers are post numbers, and sorry guys, but I'd suggest you just read along from here

897) Not sure how I feel about Gorrad at this point... he seems REALLY excited to have Wraith killed. Considering the way he's been pushing him though, he's probably(hopefully) just tunnel-visioned town
898) Mod threatens to ruin my gambit (again, you sir are truly evil)
899) I can see where this is just stating your opinions and trying to find our my reasons for "killing" wraith, but this post looks almost forced.
900) Woohoo! I posted 900.
901) No mention of gambit, I feel robbie isn't really reading any of my big posts unless I state they're about him... maybe I'll just state they're all about him from now on. Anyways, his point 1 is false and true at the same time, but I already stated that I think, his 2 is just terribly scummy
902) Anti-prod post, I've decided to call frequent anti-prod posters cows.
903) This post has absolutely nothing of value in it, except he obviously wants Wraith dead. Curious why, though.
904) Wraith, do me a favor? Try playing the game. That's what the big boys do
905) Another seeming anti-prod post and a small V/LA announcement. Expecting more from kise in 12 hours. this post is at 9:40 am on sept. 4th, I'll keep tat in mind.
906) Robbie just confirmed that he doesn't read massposts. Also, it wasn't that hard to miss. It was in bold letters for chrissake
907) Why don't you just do what you're supposed to do and READ THE THREAD? and by the thread I mean ALL OF IT. No wonder you need to do so many rereads all the time.
908) wrong through. you spelled it like he threw something Anyways, try to keep an open mind. Also, this looks scummy because it seems to have a hint of coaching to it.
909) Agreeing with it... damn you mod!
910) Seems legit, except CA needs to start actually saying things.
911) Why would you like that reaction? It really has nothing to do with the kill, unless it meant, now that they find out I'm town, you're the next to go? I'm not sure what you mean by this post, but I'd love an explanation
912) UA needs to scumhunt moar
913) semi-useless post, no tell here, just keeping through all of the posts.
914) Wow mystie, you look a lot like an active lurker ya know. You should probably play the game, because you're looking like a mighty fine lynch for tomorrow.
915) cow-post
916) Prozac seems to be just looking for people to love him here. I think that prozac would be scum if wraith is town.
917) Wait, you were three pages behind two posts ago, and now that you're doing a catch up post you're still three pages behind? Doesn't make sense, but not really a tell either.
Also, you seem to make a few good points mixed in with... I don't know what. I do agree a bit on what (whoever it was) is saying about you staying off of the main wagons for town creds, but I won't believe you're scum until you do something else (that I won't mention until you do it so you don't avoid it) That will have to wait, though.
918) grrr you. We aren't on speaking terms
919) Not sure how to take this post, if I was looking for the scummiest way, I'd say you're doing that for AtE purposes so he won't attack you anymore, but if I was looking for the towniest way, I'd say you're making a point you truly believe is valid (and partially is). But it's probably somewhere in between.
920) Post from me
921) ben needs to keep an open mind and focus on a little more than a menial point that helps pretty much no one unless he's coaching
922) Another me-post
923) This did not get to my main conclusion that if wraith is scum, dana is probably a partner
924) No real reason for this either, play the game ben
925) Another pretty much useless post by ben. If you believe something, act on it, that is all.
926) Reck needs to play or replace out
927) It had, also, for some reason I don't like this post... can't quite place why though
928) Votecount
929) Post by me, also I realized a mistake, that first quote was from ben, not robbie.
930) Not sure why he asked this, but I wish he'd stop active lurking, I feel he's probably a pretty good player when he plays
931) I post too much.
932) This is where @.@ looks like he's trying too hard to look like town. But I still feel he's at least null for now.
933) Prozac, wanna stop lurking?
934) Why does it matter? Why not comment on who I killed? Or anything like that? This seems like you're trying hard to stay neutral.
935) A lot of WIFOM. Not sure what to make of this post. Maybe you actually are scumhunting, in that case, who's scum?
936) Okaaaay? lynch me for it, then. Make an actual goddamn stance
937) what case on him dana? Wanna make one for me?
938) All you have is a hunch, sometime educated, but sometimes not, so what is your point here? Oh, you don't have one? You just want to look like you're saying something important? Makes sense.
939) Again, @.@ has this knack for making me not like his posts without being able to pinpoint why. Must just be gut.
940) Terrible reason to join the next new wagon.
941) I lol'd. But I would like actual playing from you
942) Okay, I don't like this post either, but I can say why, these are two of the people with pressure on them. This is classic fence-sitting because he can now jump from either wagon whenever he pleases and state that he already said he would. What I would LOVE is a case from him.
943) goddamn AtE. Robbie, please don't try to do the same thing Frank did. It didn't help him and it won't help you.
944) I claim it was a gambit
945) This post is obvious why I don't like it (and no it's not OMGUS on my side)
946) Ben, still WHY THE DUCK DOES IT MATTER? Seriously, play the goddamn game, stop tunneling on something that really doesn't matter.
947) I already argued this point
948) That you seriously need to read
949) post from me
950) Say you can't, but why not exactly?
951) okay? What?
952) This isn't really a big deal, just don't use it and it will be fine
953) I'm suddenly playing like a loose cannon? I though before you thought I knew what I was doing? How does this make sense?
954) Again, play the game, there's really not a point to this
955) What's your take on playing mafia, ben?
956) answer
957) Explained
958) Post from me
959) EBWOP from me
960) Again, it depends on how things were done, also, I decided you're not so much scum, just a REALLY hard read that appears scummy
961) This is SOOOOO useful. Wraith, try playing the game, minus the complainy AtE, k?
962) Don't like this post from Gorrad... not sure why

Conclusion - keep in mind that everyone starts off as scum to me (I know, an odd way of playing, but it seriously makes it easier IMO)
- Robbie is still scum
- Prozac is possible scum, but only if Wraith is town
- Wraith is probably town
- Gorrad is terribly hard to read, but I think he's town
- Wicked is neutral leaning on scum
- he also ruined my line of is's which makes him more scummy [/obvjoke]
- Ben is possible coaching scum that is looking for excuses not to scumhunt
- @.@ is a lot like Gorrad, just a much more towncred-seeking version of gorrad, he's probably also town based on the fact that I have no real evidence on him, but gut says otherwise
- UA needs to play the game. Null read at best on him (but I think that's his playstyle, so maybe he is playing? Iunno, hard to read)

I kept going for a bit to include some of the reactions to my saying it's a gambit

I'd like to apologize to everyone in this game, also. I realize I have not been playing up to my normal par, but RL really is gettin in the way all the time, but I have been to set aside time for this game in particular as much as I possibly can.

[Xite91]

This is so ironic. I'm really starting to see dana/robbie, and since I feel dana can't be scum without wraith, maybe he's back in that list too. But really Wraith needs to post more before I make that decision

Why is it ironic and why are you seeing this as a scumteam?
I think you're just mad because I pointed out your scumminess in derailing the Wraith wagon, voting for Wraith again, and unvoting him again. Wishy-washiness on the main wagon is extremely scummy.

First, the first time I got off of it was to keep my gambit alive-ish. Then I got back on because wraith was still my top suspect and lynch choice, then I read his ISO and decided he was just bad town, and honestly robbie is the perfect lynch for today.

It's ironic because this was your list

My opinion on walls of text.
Gorrad: town
Xite: scummy
Robbnva: neutral
Mysterio: town
hiphop: scummy
If the Wraith wagon actually does fall apart, I would definitely vote for hiphop or Xite, preferably hiphop, since Xite hasn't been too scummy before this whole thing.

gorrad: attacking wraith
me: no longer attacking wraith, I got scummy when I stopped attacking wraith
robbie: not really pushing or against the wraith wagon
myst: voting wraith without question
hiphop: under a lot of attention for his blatant wagoning "techniques" so safe to put him there
Then, if people stop attacking wraith, I would vote for hiphop, or xite, hiphop because he's the next likely candidate, and xite because she's on her way to being a likely candidate.

Honestly, like I said, if you were scum, then wraith is no doubt a scumbuddy, and vice versa, so I can see you really trying to bus him, but setting yourself up for something else in case the lynch doesn't go through
It was just an ironic post if you look at the motivation behind it.

[Bunnylover]

You guys didn't know I'm the Godfather Hunter? Lynch Porochaz, see his flip, then be amazed.

@hiphop: Do you still want me to answer that "question" of yours.... (?_?)
Also, how in the world did you expect people to know you were randomly voting Wraith at the top of the game? You carried a serious tone so there's nothing for anyone else to detect randomness behind it. People have had this argument many a time in MD, but I personally don't believe that every game has a set stage that requires everyone to be random. In your case, I think it was just convenient for you to throw down the excuse that your D1 vote was random so you could lazily avoid explaining that wack bandwagon request.

Blah, wouldn't it be easier if you point out how you relate Porochaz to GodFather before we make a decision to follow you.

hey bunny, I have a question... do you read massposts?

Usually yes I do, but I would be lieing if I said I read every single masspost that a person makes.
Probably 70% or 80% i read them.

[Xite91]

hey bunny, I have a question... do you read massposts?

Usually yes I do, but I would be lieing if I said I read every single masspost that a person makes.
Probably 70% or 80% i read them.

k, just saying I made that point. You'd probably be a better scumhunter if you read ALL massposts. I've seen a lot more slips in those than small posts in my experiences.

[Bunnylover]

unvote, vote poro

to find a wagon that sticks.

Lowell are you voting Poro just to start a wagon?

[Xite91]

Doing research... this game is making me think wraith could be scum... looking for more completed games from him...

That was the only completed game where he was town that I could find

Games where he's scum
He doesn't get a lot of attention here (I didn't read EVERYTHING, but I did read 2-3 pages of his 4 page ISO), but when he does he does resort to a small bit of AtE... the rest of his posts though seem so much less like they do here, I don't know what to think
Another one where his mafia play does not match this one

So... his playstyle seems to be the pretty much the same in ALL of those games... I'm not sure why it's so different here

[Wraith]

965 was by far my best game because I managed to manipulate the town successfully. In all my town games (which I'm dead in) every time I opened my mouth I was immediately piled upon by the scum and town, which is why I've seemed pissed off this entire day, because this would be the third damn time in a row it's happened to me.

[Xite91]

965 was by far my best game because I managed to manipulate the town successfully. In all my town games (which I'm dead in) every time I opened my mouth I was immediately piled upon by the scum and town, which is why I've seemed pissed off this entire day, because this would be the third damn time in a row it's happened to me.

makes sense, but just play the game regardless.
Argue cases and make your own, who's scum? why?

[Xite91]

okay, so I've addressed pretty much everything I said I would in my "previes" (I lol'd), if you feel I've left anything out, let me know

[Benmage]

Quick question Xite...your point on 921/946 in relation to me don't seem to make sense with your conclusion...you think I'm coaching...you?

[UltimaAvalon]

@UltimaAvalon, be more useless.

mmk

playstyle

Playstyle implies I'm playing. I haven't been. I've been reading the thread as it progresses and finding my opinions flip-flopping repeatedly. I've entertained thoughts of getting replaced, or simply doing something to get myself modkilled so as to not shoulder the burden onto another hapless soul.

There's a reason for this though

There seems to be a new method of playing Mafia on this site. Where once logic and reason ruled the boards, I instead find speed wagons and an entire town with tunnel-vision. Those without this tunnel vision are also marked as scum and thrown onto the "You're Next" list. This game is like a slower version of Epic Mafia, and it disturbs me. I cant even get a read on people because they sound like completly different people every 5 or so pages

[Robbnva]

Lol at epic mafia reference

[Robbnva]

And in epic, xite reminds me of the guy who takes charge from the start and makes it to the end and convinces town to hammer town and he wins as mafia

[Robbnva]

@Xite

in your opinion the way I have played this game, have I tried to look town or have I not tried to look town?

(me declaring I am town is not the same as what I am asking)

[Xite91]

Quick question Xite...your point on 921/946 in relation to me don't seem to make sense with your conclusion...you think I'm coaching...you?

no, I meant you're coaching others (possibly scum) letting everyone know that it's probably not real, and you're not really adding anything of importance, just asking useless questions.

@UltimaAvalon, be more useless.

mmk

playstyle

Playstyle implies I'm playing. I haven't been. I've been reading the thread as it progresses and finding my opinions flip-flopping repeatedly. I've entertained thoughts of getting replaced, or simply doing something to get myself modkilled so as to not shoulder the burden onto another hapless soul.

There's a reason for this though

There seems to be a new method of playing Mafia on this site. Where once logic and reason ruled the boards, I instead find speed wagons and an entire town with tunnel-vision. Those without this tunnel vision are also marked as scum and thrown onto the "You're Next" list. This game is like a slower version of Epic Mafia, and it disturbs me. I cant even get a read on people because they sound like completly different people every 5 or so pages

I can see where you're coming from, but maybe if you played and suggested other ways of playing it would get better. But just maybe

And in epic, xite reminds me of the guy who takes charge from the start and makes it to the end and convinces town to hammer town and he wins as mafia

Then. Fucking. Vote. Me.
Stop trying to see if you'll get away with it, just do it.
If you have REAL reasons, I won't call it OMGUS, but right now it seems to be that way.