/in-vitational Game 8 - Nito City (over) after 1015


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Post Post #550 (ISO) » Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:57 am

Post by Incognito »

Vote Count #5 of Day 3


Sando (4) <-~ Porochaz, Locke Lamora, Sotty7, Jack
Jack (3) <-~ Erg0, Zajnet, Sando

Not voting (2) <-~ farside22, MagnaofIllusion

9 living; 5 will do it.


Deadline:
Tuesday, September 14th at 11 A.M. EST
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Post Post #551 (ISO) » Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:56 am

Post by Sando »

MOI wrote:Overall most of his ‘scum-hunting’ revolves around meta attacks, which he states in ISO 2 he dislikes (emphasis added)
Other than Poro and a single post on Ythan, who's scum-meta have I even mentioned? I've defended my own meta, I haven't attacked anyone over their own meta. And my 'attack' on Poro was merely to Null a town-meta read from someone.

Can you find me somewhere where I said that someone had to be scum because of how they were playing?
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Post Post #552 (ISO) » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:33 pm

Post by Erg0 »

MagnaofIllusion wrote:You have stated you have a scum read on Sando in 511. At the time you made this vote Sando had 3 votes and Jack only 1. If you think they are both members of the scum team why push on the member with less votes? Why are you afraid to put Sando at L-1?
Does the post below ring any bells?
MagnaofIllusion wrote:
QFT to farside’s 501
. Scum have shown they have no compunctions self-hammering if caught. Anyone who puts Sando at L-1 and facilitates the end of the day before

1. farside returns and posts said content, and
2. Erg0 finishes his ‘catch-up’ posts and gives some actual reads that can be used to assess his slot

they deserve to be roasted over hot coals. If you feel Sando is obv-scum FOS him at this point.
One reason I'm sticking with Jack now is that he's the common denominator between the Zajscum and Sandoscum theories. I'm curious about the timing of your hop off the wagon, though - why don't you want Jack at lynch-1?
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Post Post #553 (ISO) » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:13 pm

Post by farside22 »

You have stated you have a scum read on Sando in 511. At the time you made this vote Sando had 3 votes and Jack only 1. If you think they are both members of the scum team why push on the member with less votes? Why are you afraid to put Sando at L-1?
This is something to remember if Jack does flip scum.
I know in the past I have seen scum bus in order to distance themselves for town cred.

I'm a bit beat but I will state in case people missed it that both Zaj and Poro are on my scum list. I have come across more scum that have "difficulty getting into the game" comments more and more then town.
Typically it's because of fear of being caught, not sure how to bus or fear of being caught saying something and just actively lurking.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
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Post Post #554 (ISO) » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:19 pm

Post by Locke Lamora »

I think Poro is town. Call it gut.

Sando: are you suggesting that both of the wagons are on townies despite the fact you are voting Jack?

Jack's hop onto Sando is remarkably unsubstantiated and somehow continues to be so, despite promises of further content. What he has offered since he declared that he thought Sando was scum has actually addressed Sando very little, other than to say 'yeah he's obvscum'. Don't see much pro-town motivation behind this. Anything else you've got to say on Sando, Jack?
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Post Post #555 (ISO) » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:36 pm

Post by Sando »

No, when I said 'I'm not sure what to make of it', I meant that I'm not sure what to make of it. I found it interesting though.
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Post Post #556 (ISO) » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:40 pm

Post by Locke Lamora »

Let me rephrase: does the apparent ease of wagons building on yourself and Jack make you more inclined to think you're both town? If you think they both built too easily, which votes on each wagon do you think are most likely scum hopping on?
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Post Post #557 (ISO) » Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:04 pm

Post by Sando »

Nope, I'm not sure if it makes me think that we're less likely to be scum together, because I know for sure that we're not, so I don't know if I'm thinking in an un-biased way with that.

I've made my feelings known pretty well on my own wagon.

MOI looks like the bus-iest person on Jack-scum, Zaj looks like the most opportunistic wagon-jumper on Jack-town.
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Post Post #558 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:29 am

Post by Sotty7 »

We have a deadline coming up and I think the people who aren't voting need to change that now.

MOI's last post was all kinds of strange for me. He talks about Sando's scum meta in that one game where he doesn't ignore his partners but then goes on about how Sando could be scum. Feels off to me, like he wants it both ways. The unvote was weird too. I'm not getting it.
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Post Post #559 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:36 am

Post by Sando »

Very limited time till Sunday my time I believe at this stage.

I'll claim, Townie, as you may wish to lynch me pre-me being back. I may have some access, just going to be stupidly busy with general life stuff for a few days.
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Post Post #560 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:47 pm

Post by farside22 »

I have no time tonight for this game. Going out with the family for dinner.
Locke: Why do you have gut town read from Poro? yes I know this is hard to explain but him posting elsewhere more frequently then here gives me scum gut read.

UGH I have more scum reads then town reads.
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Locke (seriously this is just always the case so it's difficult to believe)
I don't see MOI as scum, obviously Sotty

When is deadline?
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Post Post #561 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:53 pm

Post by Incognito »

Porochaz has been prodded.
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Post Post #562 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:24 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Sando wrote:Other than Poro and a single post on Ythan, who's scum-meta have I even mentioned? I've defended my own meta, I haven't attacked anyone over their own meta. And my 'attack' on Poro was merely to Null a town-meta read from someone.
That’s really my point. You really haven’t done much attacking / questioning of anyone in the game. Except for your very recent post on Jack you really have only gone after vollkan and poro. Thus even though your haven’t talked much meta what you have talked about has constituted a large part of your scum-hunting.

Are you saying the only reason that you even have questioned Poro is not because you think he is scummy but because someone else had a Town read?
Erg0 wrote:Does the post below ring any bells?
Yes it does. That said I made that post so that you and farside could provide content. By the time you made your vote you had already made point 2 moot. The post was more directed at anyone not named Erg0 and farside.
Erg0 wrote:I'm curious about the timing of your hop off the wagon, though - why don't you want Jack at lynch-1?
Sotty wrote:MOI's last post was all kinds of strange for me. He talks about Sando's scum meta in that one game where he doesn't ignore his partners but then goes on about how Sando could be scum. Feels off to me, like he wants it both ways. The unvote was weird too. I'm not getting it.
These posts have similar themes so I lumped my response together on them.

1. I wasn’t going to declare Sando scum based on some meta that pretty clearly is in dispute. Based on his ISO his play seems scummy to me. But for reasons in part 2 he’s not getting my vote.

2. I unvoted Jack to see his reaction. As the pressure has built on him today he’s turned very passive. Sando retaliated to Jack’s placing him at L-1 by doing the same. Both votes to L-1 seem like very unlikely busses and somewhat opportunistic. Jack hasn’t returned since my Unvote. Were he Town who was fighting for his life I would expect him to be take the chance my unvote offered to make a stronger case for his ‘scum’ candidate.

Sando is active in the thread and is making an effort at defending himself. IMO Jack is just hoping to let the pressure slide right off. Unless we have managed to wagon two scum to L-1 I’m more confident based on my overall scum read on Jack that he’s the lynch.

VOTE: Jack
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Post Post #563 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:15 pm

Post by Erg0 »

MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Erg0 wrote:Does the post below ring any bells?
Yes it does. That said I made that post so that you and farside could provide content. By the time you made your vote you had already made point 2 moot. The post was more directed at anyone not named Erg0 and farside.
Point 2 was moot, but point 1 was still valid (farside hadn't returned) and there's an "and" between them. So if I'd voted Sando at that point then I still would have met your critera as someone who "deserve
to be roasted over hot coals". You're really trying to have it both ways here.

At least your vote is back in the right place.
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Post Post #564 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:21 pm

Post by Zajnet »

I have nothing more to add than that Jack is obvscum.
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Post Post #565 (ISO) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:25 am

Post by Jack »

You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.
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Post Post #566 (ISO) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:35 pm

Post by Porochaz »

Picking up prod, Im still on Limited Access, however I started reading day 3 yesterday, I aim to finish tomorrow.
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Post Post #567 (ISO) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:09 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

@Poro Again
– I don’t recall seeing an answer to these.
MoI wrote:@Poro – why is Locke not listed at all on your ‘Who is in the game’ post at 455?
MoI wrote: My question is – why if you like the playerlist and overall game here the best why are you playing ‘in the background’? That makes no sense.
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– I’ll be V/LA til Monday for regular family weekend duties.
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Post Post #568 (ISO) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:35 pm

Post by Porochaz »

Oversight, I have no problems with Locke, although this is before my read through day 3

and

because I was v/la pretty much when it started and day 1 was as dull as hell.
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Post Post #569 (ISO) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:12 pm

Post by Sando »

Sweet, got a few hours free finally, not much after this though for 24 hours I think, then I should be all sweet again.

MOI:
MOI wrote:Overall most of his ‘scum-hunting’ revolves around meta attacks, which he states in ISO 2 he dislikes (emphasis added)
Here you say that most of my attacks revolve around meta, and you implicitly attack me because that doesn't gel with my 'hating meta', fair enough so far.
Sando wrote:Other than Poro and a single post on Ythan, who's scum-meta have I even mentioned? I've defended my own meta, I haven't attacked anyone over their own meta. And my 'attack' on Poro was merely to Null a town-meta read from someone.

Can you find me somewhere where I said that someone had to be scum because of how they were playing?
My response, saying that no, I'm not attacking anyone over meta really. I've responded to a claim to Poro is acting to town-meta by showing that he's also acting like scum-meta, ie null. And I've said that Ythan was playing well outside his town-meta, but too early to base anything off that.
MOI wrote:That’s really my point. You really haven’t done much attacking / questioning of anyone in the game. Except for your very recent post on Jack you really have only gone after vollkan and poro. Thus even though your haven’t talked much meta what you have talked about has constituted a large part of your scum-hunting.

Are you saying the only reason that you even have questioned Poro is not because you think he is scummy but because someone else had a Town read?
Firstly, your question, no, I only mentioned his scum-meta because someone else mentioned his town-meta. I have questioned Poro for non-meta reasons and that has nothing to do with others reads.

Secondly, my very first post was an attack on Jack, so no, I haven't just gone after vollkan and poro. Until my last vote, I was voting Locke and 486 to 499 is completely me and Locke going after each other, so again, I haven't gone after just vollkan and poro. I've also interacted a bit with Erg0, but don't find him scummy.

So when you say I've only gone after vollkan and Poro, I've actually gone after Jack, vollkan, poro and Locke. So your point of 'you haven't attacked' is, in my view, incorrect. As to your assertion that I've mainly attacked on meta, I haven't mentioned either vollkan or Locke's meta, I've only asked other people about Jack's meta, I haven't proffered my own opinion. And on Poro, I merely don't want people to say he's town-meta, when I've seen him play like this as scum. I am not asking people to vote/lynch him based off of scum-meta, I just think his meta should be null.
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Post Post #570 (ISO) » Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:33 am

Post by Incognito »

Reminder: Your D3 deadline falls in 3 days.
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Post Post #571 (ISO) » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:42 am

Post by farside22 »

Both Jack and Sando are at l-1.
I will have time to go over both people a little more thoroughly.
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Post Post #572 (ISO) » Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:00 pm

Post by Locke Lamora »

Farside: I just haven't picked up on anything that sounds scummy to me. All of his posts feel genuine, despite his general lack of contributions. Other than that, I can't really elaborate.

Jack's total refusal to properly respond leaves me feeling pretty good about lynching him too if it comes to that. His choice of targets has been scummy and he has seemed much less proactive as the game has gone on, culminating in this recent dearth of contributions. Sando has made a lot more effort to defend himself but I find some points of that defence to be a bit of a reach or an effort to suggest suspicion in whatever direction seems convenient, such as his pointing out that his and Jack's wagons are 'interesting' for building so fast. Plus I still think his direct avoidance of the Jason issue is scummy (obviously I don't want to discuss this again, my view's just not going to change on that one).
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Post Post #573 (ISO) » Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:51 pm

Post by Jack »

Zajnet wrote:I am stumped by my semblance of a reread. Nobody really jumps out to me as scum. Sando, Poro, and Jack all exhibit elements of scumminess, but nothing blatantly a scum-tell. I need to reread looking specifically for connections to Jason now, but a preliminary look over MOI's analysis seems to show that Sando is the scummiest because of voting patterns. However, I am not comfortable enough in that to vote for anyone, especially with Sando at L-2.
Zajnet wrote:Sorry for needed to be prodded (again).

I'm going to sound like lurking, wagoning scum, but that's OK.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Jack

There's nothing I could say that wouldn't be a direct quote from someone in the last page. Jack is scum.
Where does this change come from?
Jack wrote:
Zajnet wrote:Whoops, got prodded. Time flies when I'm taking 16 hours of honors courses >.> speaking of which, gotta run to one of them. I'll post a catch-up post and some analysis later tonight.
This post is today, wednesday.

He posted content in another game today.

On tuesday he had 8 posts, in 3 different games.

monday he posted once

sunday was the last time he'd posted

So why is he pretending like he's been busy with honors courses and hasn't had time to post? That excuse reads fake to me.

In trader mafia as town he had 93 posts--10% of the game. Here he has 14 posts--less than 4%. And they have been very content light.
Quoting this again.

Sando-Zajnet. Do the right thing farside.
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Post Post #574 (ISO) » Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:19 pm

Post by Incognito »

Bumping a vote count.
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