NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[Wickedestjr]

flinter, you have ignored this question:

What was the purpose of your vote for singersigner?

if you want to make a case for somebody being town, do it. The only way to stop a bandwagon is with some sort of evidence or some sort of logical rationale as to why we are misreading him as scum.

I have been trying to derail the Wraith bandwagon by bringing up alternatives that I would like lynching instead. You need to consider this from different angles: why would Wraith act this way as scum? His posts are ones that he must know are attracting lots of attention to himself (which newbscum doesn't want) and the things he says don't have any scum motivation, for example, his idea of himself getting lynched. He has much more motivation to have himself lynched than he does as scum. It is obvious that he doesn't care about what people think about him. His reaction to the pressure is a great example.

I have only one completed game here, and I was scum here. I'm sorry, but this is all you get.

Umm... you were town in the game that you linked. Regarding the meta, you play much differently there than you do here and don't use the strategy that you claim to use whenever you are town. You said that you don't respond to the defenses from other players, yet did this a lot in the game you linked.

@flinter, explain why you're voting for me and not bussing your buddy Wraith. You'll get a lot more town points that way.

Earlier you said my vote had no chance, yet now you are saying that you also suspect flinter, so why do you have a problem with my vote?

915) cow-post
917) Wait, you were three pages behind two posts ago, and now that you're doing a catch up post you're still three pages behind? Doesn't make sense, but not really a tell either.
Also, you seem to make a few good points mixed in with... I don't know what. I do agree a bit on what (whoever it was) is saying about you staying off of the main wagons for town creds, but I won't believe you're scum until you do something else (that I won't mention until you do it so you don't avoid it) That will have to wait, though.
919) Not sure how to take this post, if I was looking for the scummiest way, I'd say you're doing that for AtE purposes so he won't attack you anymore, but if I was looking for the towniest way, I'd say you're making a point you truly believe is valid (and partially is). But it's probably somewhere in between.

...

- Wicked is neutral leaning on scum

915) I don't know what that means.
917) When I said I was three pages behind in post 915, that was because I saw that the thread was up to 37 pages and I was at page 34 so I just immediately thought I was three pages behind. I guess I should have said I was four pages behind in post 915... but I don't see how it matters.
919) Huh? Where are you getting AtE from in my post? I don't believe I did that.

...

So... I'm neutral leaning scum for saying I'm three pages behind, saying something else which you admit isn't really a tell, and saying something which you are undecided on? Interesting.

You'd probably be a better scumhunter if you read ALL massposts. I've seen a lot more slips in those than small posts in my experiences.

Dang it! I guess I'm not a good scumhunter either.

I dislike how Gorrad completely ignores post 1163.

Wraith is town and his bandwagon is going nowhere. In fact, nothing is really happening. I say we bandwagon flinter or Benmage instead.

[Wickedestjr]

I might post later, but at the moment I have some work to do.

Mod:

I will be V/LA September 10th and September 11th.

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP: Guys, please don't post too much for me to catch up on!

[Wickedestjr]

Sorry for quadruple post, but where is our other replacement?

[Flameaxe]

I might post later, but at the moment I have some work to do.

Mod:

I will be V/LA September 10th and September 11th.

No problem.

I was going to do a votecount, but it doesn't seem like much has changed, if anything. So I'll wait till tonight.

[Gorrad]

Because you should totally just lynch the guy who wants to be lynched. That's smart in any game. Whatever, I've made my cases, lynch me now so I don't have to waste anymore time here.

This is you pretty much admitting that the only reason you've wanted to get lynched is for townpoints. Once more, guess who needs townpoints. Hint: Not town.

Wickedest, look at this. This is my response to you, Bunny, and all the others. Wraith here is admitting that the only reason he's been self-sacrificing is so that people WON'T lynch him.

[singersigner]

Wraith is town and his bandwagon is going nowhere. In fact, nothing is really happening. I say we bandwagon flinter or Benmage instead.

Care to give anymore explanation as to why?

[soapbox]Ok, here's the thing I don't get: why do people tunnel on defenses, as opposed to finding scummier players? I've always been more convinced of not voting for a particular person by someone else bringing up/making a case on someone who is stronger. The best defense is a good offense, right? It's stupid to

continue

disagreeing with why people think you're* scummy...chances are, you're not going to change their mind if you've fucked it up that much already. Stop clouding your posts with useless information (i.e. wimpy defenses/excuses), and actually scum-hunt. At least if we mislynch, when you flip town, we have your legitimate thoughts and feelings about who else might genuinely be scum. kthx.[/soapbox]

*I say "you" generically for anyone who has a wagon forming

[singersigner]

OH...
I read all of Newbie 965 (Wraith's first game, where he so happened to be scum). I think he legitimately did alright for a while, and played a much different game than he's playing here. Much closer to the belt, which he's clearly not doing now. I don't think anyone is going to convince me to hop on that wagon.

[Wraith]

Gorrad and Robbvna have been using more and more circuitous logic in their case against me, culminating in:

going off what gorrad said, trying to get town points would be the same as trying to look town, which is scummy

According to this, everyone is scum, because scumhunting can be classified as "trying to look town." As well as "trying to get lynched." For all you know I'm a Jester. "As well as defending oneself" because apparently town don't do that.

[singersigner]

For all you know I'm a Jester.

Ewww.

[Mysterio]

For the love of Zues, lynch this guy so we can move on.

@wickedest, I am NOT voting for flinter. She is

probably

scum just from her play, but Wraith is by far the scummiest player I have ever seen in a game. No one claiming he is town has given any reasons for it except "gut". Well guess what? I don't give a crap about your gut reads. What is the pro-town result of keeping Wraith alive if indeed you somehow believe he's town? He is a scummy distraction with nothing useful to add. Do you want him at LyLo? Because I sure as hell don't.

[flinter]

flinter, you have ignored this question:

What was the purpose of your vote for singersigner?

I have only one completed game here, and I was scum here. I'm sorry, but this is all you get.

Umm... you were town in the game that you linked. Regarding the meta, you play much differently there than you do here and don't use the strategy that you claim to use whenever you are town. You said that you don't respond to the defenses from other players, yet did this a lot in the game you linked.

I answered the first. It was on that moment the person I was most interested in. I probably have reasons there.

And don't twist my words. I dislike tunneling. I don't know if it was that game, but I think there has been only one person I ever tunneled on and in that game I was scum. You'll also see that I didn't ever react to a defense on someone elses points (if that defense was sound). Mysterio's defense against your case was fine. Meaning I won't comment on it. Seems normal, right?

@flinter, explain why you're voting for me and not bussing your buddy Wraith. You'll get a lot more town points that way.

Earlier you said my vote had no chance,

yet now you are saying that you also suspect flinter

, so why do you have a problem with my vote?

@wickedest,

I am NOT voting for flinter

. She is probably scum just from her play, but Wraith is by far the scummiest player I have ever seen in a game. No one claiming he is town has given any reasons for it except "gut". Well guess what? I don't give a crap about your gut reads. What is the pro-town result of keeping Wraith alive if indeed you somehow believe he's town? He is a scummy distraction with nothing useful to add. Do you want him at LyLo? Because I sure as hell don't.

Traditional scumplay. Defending by "subtily" changing the accusation. Classic strawman, I bolded it for you. Then the fact that he wants a wraith lynch even if he is town seals it for me.

confirm vote Mysterio

[flinter]

Gorrad and Robbvna have been using more and more circuitous logic in their case against me, culminating in:

going off what gorrad said, trying to get town points would be the same as trying to look town, which is scummy

According to this, everyone is scum, because scumhunting can be classified as "trying to look town." As well as "trying to get lynched." For all you know I'm a Jester. "As well as defending oneself" because apparently town don't do that.

Wraith, snap out of it. I want 2 cases on your biggest suspects. By saturday. This doesn't help anyone.

[flinter]

EBWOP:

and if you are going to get lynched, make sure that you have created enough information that you'll pull scum with you in death. You aren't doing that right now.

[Mysterio]

Hey flinter, stop coaching Wraith and just bus him please.

[Robbnva]

Gorrad and Robbvna have been using more and more circuitous logic in their case against me, culminating in:

going off what gorrad said, trying to get town points would be the same as trying to look town, which is scummy

According to this, everyone is scum, because scumhunting can be classified as "trying to look town." As well as "trying to get lynched." For all you know I'm a Jester. "As well as defending oneself" because apparently town don't do that.

So you see Xite's flawed logic too

[Bunnylover]

Because you should totally just lynch the guy who wants to be lynched. That's smart in any game. Whatever, I've made my cases, lynch me now so I don't have to waste anymore time here.

This is you pretty much admitting that the only reason you've wanted to get lynched is for townpoints. Once more, guess who needs townpoints. Hint: Not town.

Wickedest, look at this. This is my response to you, Bunny, and all the others. Wraith here is admitting that the only reason he's been self-sacrificing is so that people WON'T lynch him.

I can't argue with this. I don't see how.

Vote:Wraith

[flinter]

Hey flinter, stop coaching Wraith and just bus him please.

Vote mysterio, the strawmanning scumbag.

[Xite91]

@Xite - I still want to know why all of a sudden Wraith is town in your eyes cause I have not seen anything (unless I missed something)to make me change my mind on him and I'm not sure anyone else has or they would have unvoted.

I understand you think I'm scum, somehow I'll have to prove I'm not but for right now we have more than enough data to analyze after the wraith lynch to focus our search for scum

IMO best option is to keep this bw going OR find somebody else that we can all agree is scum.

Because I read his meta. I reread him in ISO and none of it makes sense. IIRC none of the games he played he was a power role in, and so I'm worried we're on the way to lynching an inexperienced pr, or he could be a serial killer, etc etc. Let him get NK'd instead for gods sake, and for the sake of this game moving on.

Oh and @ Xite

can you show me or tell me an example of me "trying" to act town

and than show me somebody who is town and not "trying"

I want to see what your idea of somebody trying and somebody actually being town

also, go look at the newbie game I was just lynched in a week or so ago (I think Xrec is modding it) and just look at my play there since I replaced in and tell me if it is any different than my play here.

I'll do this later when I have enough time and givadamn to do so.

Hang on, since when did "pushing your own mislynch" become a scumtell? Just because I said "screw it" and started acting like an asshole doesn't mean I'm evil scum.

it's not so much a scumtell as antitown, considering that if you're town, you're the only mod-confirmed townie you've got, which would be defeating the purpose if you were trying to catch scum.

Overreaction is scummy

"go ahead and lynch me" kind of posts as an attempt to look town.

I want you to explain this one, because it doesn't look like an attempt to look town at all. Also, overreaction is only scummy in certain cases, other time it's just an annoyed town tell. You have to read between the lines a bit when it comes to overreactions.

915) cow-post
917) Wait, you were three pages behind two posts ago, and now that you're doing a catch up post you're still three pages behind? Doesn't make sense, but not really a tell either.
Also, you seem to make a few good points mixed in with... I don't know what. I do agree a bit on what (whoever it was) is saying about you staying off of the main wagons for town creds, but I won't believe you're scum until you do something else (that I won't mention until you do it so you don't avoid it) That will have to wait, though.
919) Not sure how to take this post, if I was looking for the scummiest way, I'd say you're doing that for AtE purposes so he won't attack you anymore, but if I was looking for the towniest way, I'd say you're making a point you truly believe is valid (and partially is). But it's probably somewhere in between.

...

- Wicked is neutral leaning on scum

915) I don't know what that means.
917) When I said I was three pages behind in post 915, that was because I saw that the thread was up to 37 pages and I was at page 34 so I just immediately thought I was three pages behind. I guess I should have said I was four pages behind in post 915... but I don't see how it matters.
919) Huh? Where are you getting AtE from in my post? I don't believe I did that.

...

So... I'm neutral leaning scum for saying I'm three pages behind, saying something else which you admit isn't really a tell, and saying something which you are undecided on? Interesting.

You'd probably be a better scumhunter if you read ALL massposts. I've seen a lot more slips in those than small posts in my experiences.

Dang it! I guess I'm not a good scumhunter either.

915) It's obvious you didn't read the whole post.
917) Like I said, it isn't a tell, just something I noticed. I made a point of talking about EVERY post.
919) It was very close to what robbie was doing (that I think you even called out, but it could have been gorrad) where he was saying that no matter what he does he's scum, your's was just on a much smaller scale, that's why I said it could go either way.

And null to scummy =/= scum
It means that I don't have a read on you. I think I even said to keep in mind that I start every game with a scum read on EVERYONE.

I didn't say a bad scumhunter didn't, I said that you'd be BETTER if you did.

going off what gorrad said, trying to get town points would be the same as trying to look town, which is scummy

According to this, everyone is scum, because scumhunting can be classified as "trying to look town." As well as "trying to get lynched." For all you know I'm a Jester. "As well as defending oneself" because apparently town don't do that.

No, there's a difference between the two. Townies rarely care about appearances because their main goal is to lynch scum, and nothing SHOULD get in the way of that, scums main goal is to look like town, so they pretend to scumhunt and try to gain town creds wherever they feel safe to do so.

@flinter, explain why you're voting for me and not bussing your buddy Wraith. You'll get a lot more town points that way.

Earlier you said my vote had no chance,

yet now you are saying that you also suspect flinter

, so why do you have a problem with my vote?

@wickedest,

I am NOT voting for flinter

.

She is probably scum just from her play, but Wraith is by far the scummiest player I have ever seen in a game.

No one claiming he is town has given any reasons for it except "gut". Well guess what? I don't give a crap about your gut reads. What is the pro-town result of keeping Wraith alive if indeed you somehow believe he's town? He is a scummy distraction with nothing useful to add. Do you want him at LyLo? Because I sure as hell don't.

Traditional scumplay. Defending by "subtily" changing the accusation. Classic strawman, I bolded it for you. Then the fact that he wants a wraith lynch even if he is town seals it for me.

confirm vote Mysterio

You should probably read that next part, I even underlined it for you.

Gorrad and Robbvna have been using more and more circuitous logic in their case against me, culminating in:

going off what gorrad said, trying to get town points would be the same as trying to look town, which is scummy

According to this, everyone is scum, because scumhunting can be classified as "trying to look town." As well as "trying to get lynched." For all you know I'm a Jester. "As well as defending oneself" because apparently town don't do that.

So you see Xite's flawed logic too

Ironically, first, gorrad brought it up, and second it's not flawed logic, I've talked to plenty of mafia-players about this one (trying to look like town) and it's a common scumtell to do so. If you'd shut up and think for a while, you might actually see what we're talking about.

[flinter]

Xite, did you even read what Wickeds question was? Why Mysterio had a problem with his vote. Mysterio completely avoids this question and in stead goes on about Wraith.

[Xite91]

@flinter - But you didn't bring that up, you bolded what seemed like an inconsistency, and I was point out why it wasn't. As for his answer, read the rest of that quote. He has a problem with it BECAUSE it's not on Wraith.

[Wraith]

@flinter: I think I'll take you up on that. I have homework tonight but if I find the time tonight or tomorrow I'll elaborate on Mysterio's last few posts and put up a WoT on Robbvna.

[Robbnva]

I'll shut up if you stop posting a novel every other post

[Xite91]

I'll shut up if you stop posting a novel every other post

I'll stop posting novels if this game doesn't go up two pages every night while I'm sleeping. Those are catch up posts, believe it or not.
And I don't mind you posting, I just wish you would think before you do so.

[Robbnva]

@flinter: I think I'll take you up on that. I have homework tonight but if I find the time tonight or tomorrow I'll elaborate on Mysterio's last few posts and put up a WoT on Robbvna.

I really can't wait to see what you have to say <insert sarcasm here>