Mini 1049 - Hide and Seek Mafia - FINAL Kablooie!

[jenniwren]

/confirm

[jenniwren]

Vote: Mongoose

No avatar! I want to see some picture of Rikki Tikki Tavi or something.

[jenniwren]

An OMGUS vote?

I noticed your lack of an avatar first.

[jenniwren]

An OMGUS vote?

I noticed your lack of an avatar first.

your attacking me again?

Vote jenni

again!

Are you always this defensive?

camn

Can you translate your initial reasoning? Babelfish wants the actual kanji.

Clearly we need a bandwagon. And Katsuki can provide.
My initial reasoning still stands.

VOTE: Katsuki
Anata ga nihongo e hanaseru? doshite tabemono no namae ga aru?

Vezo

Vezo is being Vezo. /bang head on hard surface

And yeah...let's get this moving.

[jenniwren]

Oh, and @ jenni.. imy japanese... i was being slightly ironical. I asked if Katsu actually spoke japanese.. and why he was named after food?
I didn't actually have any good reason.. except for the initial interplay in confirmations gave me a tingle.
A little scum-tingle that I may revisit at a later time.

Ah, okay. I just wanted to be sure I hadn't missed anything.

Also, I'm not sure if this just isn't a case of Vezo being Vezo, but my curiosity is piqued, and I want to know why you asked if we should claim. Why give scum any useful info?

Finally, Tans, why vote yourself? Naughty, naughty.

[jenniwren]

tans is not town. But that is too easy.

If you are so confident in that put a vote on me

Does your vote mean you're confident the person you're voting is scum?

[jenniwren]

Tanstalas or Mongoose or Budja...at I guessing at least one of them is scum. Not enough information to go on yet, but between the a) concern about meta/self-voting, b) the (active?) lurking and only coming out to OMGUS voting, and c) the innocuous questioning...I'm just not seeing a lot of good intentions. Vezo's intentions are also questionable...but since that IS his meta, he's harder to read.

Need more posts. Need more talking.

@Kats...is Tans your only suspect?
@Camn...who do you want to QL and why?

@Tans...if you're going to correct Kats' grammar and poke at her intelligence, you should know that "

where

all the cool kids

are at

" is wrong, too (colloquial usage).

[jenniwren]

Fair enough.

[jenniwren]

I'm still here; there just hasn't been much to add lately. Though I will say that I've never heard of lurking being used as a scum

hunting

tool.

[jenniwren]

jenni asks for people to stop lurking then begins to lurk herself

To be fair, almost everyone is somewhat lurking at this point (except camn, who has been pulling teeth to get discussion going); we have spurts of activity (like this afternoon), and then noooothing. I've just been lazy. Derp.

Anyway...

--mongoose: My RV was on him because of no avatar, which was random, but he reacted very defensively, so I kept it there. Now he's just talked himself into a corner. Also, this post is loaded with AtE:

Answer to that post: I do contribute, just not as much as everyone else. If you think I am scum, lynch me. Its your problem, if I die, playing down one town member, not mine. Even though that sounds really scummy, I'm sure. I cant defend myself much to be honest. I just didnt see anything too scummy beofre. When I saw something I jumped

--Katsuki, do you still find Tans scummy? What about Budja or TBM?
--Budja, what is your take on Katsuki? Or rather, what is your relationship to Katsuki?
--TBM: Is this a little handsaw?

Mongoose is as useless as a screen door on a submarine however the way the wagon built on me seems slightly off, in particular Kat's vote for him seems equally opportunistic and lazy.

Also, in that same post, you question Budja's comment that Kats is townish, but you never really say anything about her (except to tell her to post content). What do you think about Katsuki?

@Elli: Two scum from the mongoose wagon? Kats and Budja.

@Katsuki, I am a lot less certain. Convince me to stay.

If Veso is a VI, he needs to die.

My view on veso switched from scummy to anti-town. If veso doesn't pick up, perhaps, but for now I am null on his scumminess.

Lets quicklynch. I want to taste blood. And get to the bottom of these night mechanics.

All the info is at our disposal (besides who is a heavy/light sleeper). If you want a quicklynch, build a very convincing case.

@camn,

I've picked up a few town reads but scum reads are in limbo

.

Only town reads? Really? Also, the comment to Katsuki is...interesting...it's in regards to Tans and Kats' affirmation that he was definitely scum. Why ask Kats to convince you to stay on the wagon?

Conclusion

1) Mongoose has maintained a mildly nervous energy from the beginning; defensive reaction to the RVS vote, some curious comments, and now some AtE.
2) The mongoose wagon surely has scum somewhere on it; at least one, maybe two. (But I think the third scum is not on the wagon.) Could be Katsuki or Budja.
3) TBM has avoided the mongoose wagon; why? If mongoose is town, he could be the missing third, and if he's scum, TBM could be his buddy.

Scum reads:

mongoose and TBM; then either Kats or Budja. If mongoose is scum, then I think the third would be Budja based on TBM's little blurb about Katsuki; if he flips town, then I think TBM, Kats, and Budja would be likely scum based on their interactions.

I will connect the dots better later, but it's 4:30 a.m. and the logic is slipping away...

[jenniwren]

Conclusion

1) Mongoose has maintained a mildly nervous energy from the beginning; defensive reaction to the RVS vote, some curious comments, and now some AtE.
2) The mongoose wagon surely has scum somewhere on it; at least one, maybe two. (

But I think the third scum is not on the wagon.

) Could be Katsuki or Budja.
3) TBM has avoided the mongoose wagon; why? If mongoose is town, he could be the missing third, and if he's scum, TBM could be his

Scum reads:

mongoose

and TBM; then either Kats or Budja. If mongoose is scum, then I think the third would be Budja based on TBM's little blurb about Katsuki; if he flips town, then I think TBM, Kats, and Budja would be likely scum based on their interactions.

I will connect the dots better later, but it's 4:30 a.m. and the logic is slipping away...

You seem to imply that mongoose isn't (the third) scum (because he's obviously not on his own wagon), but then you list him as your first scumread.

Pom is confused with you.

Oh, I meant I think he is first scum; I was filling in the other two blanks.

[jenniwren]

First: I've not had time to post anything since D2 started, but the first thing I have to say is pretty much what everyone else did, which is, WTF Vezo?

The second is, wow, Far_Cry, did you miss these posts?

Vezok, why'd you join this game.
serious question.

^Don't even bother reading elli's question?

Vezok is obviously failing to read

even

a 3 page game...

I'm not willing to vote Vezo yet for following his (often mind-numbing but) regular playstyle.

Vezo has an established playstyle. Basically, he always plays like this. Check out his meta.

However, established or not, it's no reason to let bad hammers slide. I would vote Vezo now, but he's at L-1, so holding off until he claims.

Also @ FC: You're right, I didn't change my random vote because mongoose OMGUS voted me, got really defensive about being voted for, and then acted scummy enough that five other people voted for him. I never saw a reason to unvote him because he was definitely the most scummy person of all, at least until Vezo's hammer.

@camn: You should check out the Castlevania game that just ended before giving "Count" Katsu a town pass, lol. (Though I think you're probably right about the town-slip...Katsu and her team just handed the town their bums on toast in that game, so I have to say it.)
@Tans: Why so quick to try to clear Vezo as town? Also, this post is pretty freaking OMGUS.

Vote: Katsuki

Her top 3 consisted of myself, camn and Vezok - as far as I am concerned Vezok is probably town - getting a town vibe from camn and I know I am town.

Before the hammer and mongoose's town flip, I thought the scum team was mongoose, TBM, and either Kats or Budja. After the hammer/flip, I am thinking Vezo, and not sure who else. Tans's leap to clear Vezo as obv-town after the hammer isn't good, nor is his current vote on Katsu. If camn is right, and Kats made a town-slip when she pointed out the mistake in the VC, then Tans' entire game is questionable as he has been accusing Kats throughout most of it.

[jenniwren]

Kats

Ok, so today was actually a holiday for me and I am too lazy to process much.

I really will get to commenting I hope, but TANS IS MY VOTE AFTER VEZOK. I think it was far_cry stating something about his current playstyle as an attempt to avoid being meta'd, but THIS IS NOT HIS TOWN META. HE IS PLAYING LIKE THAT TO AVOID GETTING VOTED FOR SIMPLY BEING "TOO ALOOF TO BE SCUM". Its actually a copy of what zwet did in my last game with tans. If anything, I'm wondering why jenn has yet to comment on that as well. Aka, my gut is still screaming tans scum.

I hadn't thought about it, side from the self-vote...good thing there are no PRs here or we'd be one fake claim away from doom.

but jenn defending vezok is also curious. Maybe I didn't read properly, but an explanation is nice.

I don't think I defended him as much as gave him the benefit of the doubt over that first comment about claiming. (I addressed this to FC in post 223); however, after the quickhammer, that benefit is gone. The only reason my vote isn't on him yet is because by the time I logged in yesterday he was at L-1, and he still hasn't posted a defense.

Tans

And the only thing I can think about for "using" the roles would be to have the light sleepers claim and if we have 3 or 4 we split everyone up into those peoples rooms hoping that we put a scum in each room so even if a room gets blown up if the person wasn't in the room they were supposed to be we know they are scum. However the more I thought about it - it is a bad idea cuz even if we managed to randomly put a scum in each room and they didn't go to that room we would lose 3 townies to kill 1 scum.

Right now, scum will have a 1/10 chance to hit anyone tonight. There is a huge chance they will hit an empty room again. As the numbers dwindle (either through bombing or lynching) it will begin to get easier to work out who is who, especially since the number of open rooms will also drop. Dividing players up now would only make it easy for them to take out players they feel threatened by.

I have an uneasy feeling about the amount of lurking going on at this stage in the game.

[jenniwren]

I am reading now. I've been completely absorbed by another game this afternoon; sorry :s.

[jenniwren]

OK...I have been embroiled in a bitter battle in another game involving many walls and lots of fighting since yesterday (check my ISO), and then my mom called right after I started reading tonight and we talked for two hours, so it has taken me a while to get back to this one.

First:

Tans, early in the game you said you liked to switch up your meta so you couldn't be read...and today you told Kats to check out your games. Is your meta useful or not?

I try to play different in every game I play, that way people can't get a a meta on me =)

If you are going to try and meta me maybe you should base it off more than one game where I had most of the scum and town on me day 1

Second:

Tans, you keep coming back to identifying light sleepers. Why is this information necessary for you to have?

D2

And the only thing I can think about for "using" the roles would be to have the light sleepers claim and if we have 3 or 4 we split everyone up into those peoples rooms hoping that we put a scum in each room so even if a room gets blown up if the person wasn't in the room they were supposed to be we know they are scum. However the more I thought about it - it is a bad idea cuz even if we managed to randomly put a scum in each room and they didn't go to that room we would lose 3 townies to kill 1 scum

D3

Wondering if maybe the scum all hid in the same room on N1..

Any chance a light sleeper hid in the same room as Vezok on N1? And if so - maybe you could tell us who else was in that room?

Third:

You are also stuck on an Elli/Kats pair:

D2

Oh - and Triple post FTW - If Vezok does flip scum, and I get lynched and I flip town.. after you lynch Katsuki - Look at Elli as well, I smell scum in those two

Calling it now - Katsuki and Elli are scum...

D3

Anyone else getting the feeling Katsuki and Elli went from scum buddying to bussing?

You know what I'm getting a feeling of? That one, if not both of you, is scum. The tunneling has been pretty hardcore on both sides, but so far, neither of you has pushed it through to a lynch, as other candidates have taken precedent on both days. I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL if you both flipped scum. Even today, you're at each others throats, and the Kats wagon got some momentum, and now you're going back to the idea that she and Elli are scum buddies (just as she suggested you were answering for MPR earlier), and it seems like you're turning your attention to Elli more now...lighting a fire to burn him, maybe. On D1, you also switched from voting Kats to voting mongoose, and on D2, you focused your vote on Kats and supported Vezok.

[jenniwren]

EBWODP:

Vote: Tanstalas

[jenniwren]

First:

Tans, early in the game you said you liked to switch up your meta so you couldn't be read...and today you told Kats to check out your games. Is your meta useful or not?

Basing a meta off of one game or off multiple games.. which do you think would be more accurate? Even though I may "try" to play differently there are probably playstyles that I do subconsciously that you may pick up on. Serious question: Was that a serious question from you?

I was basically pointing out you once said you deliberately liked to change your meta and now you're pointing to it. I wanted to see how you would respond.

Second:

Tans, you keep coming back to identifying light sleepers. Why is this information necessary for you to have?

Durp hurr - Seriously? The first quote I even said that was a bad idea. I never said hey light sleepers tell me who you are, I said that a reason to say where you hid would be if a light sleeper could counter that claim we would know that either the person who claimed LS is lying or the person who said they hid in that paticular room is lying, so we lynch the person who claimed the room hide first then if they flip town we lynch the "so-called" light sleeper as they obviously lied.

Even IF the light sleeper came forward there is no way that scum is going to be able to know where they hide the next night. I do not see any disadvantage of a LS outing themselves if they have INFORMATION to SHARE - Do you disagree?

ON D2 you said we should identify the light sleepers and put everyone in different rooms...can you seriously not see the problem with this? And it would still be one person's word against another's word, unless more than one light sleeper was also able to verify it. I don't have any problems with INFORMATION, but what good is the information? It won't be useful until there are fewer people and fewer rooms.

Third:

You are also stuck on an Elli/Kats pair:

And you just dismiss everything I said about an Elli/Kats pair? You are saying that my case on them has no merit?

Right now I am more interested in a Tans/Kats pair--it seems much more obvious to me than an Elli/Kats pair, and I've been thinking about it since D1, so I want to investigate it.

and

now you're going back to the idea that she and Elli are scum buddies

(just as she suggested you were answering for MPR earlier), and it seems like you're turning your attention to Elli more now...lighting a fire to burn him, maybe. On D1, you also switched from voting Kats to voting mongoose, and on D2, you focused your vote on Kats and supported Vezok.

@bolded - Umm, we have MORE THAN ONE scum left - did you forget that? Would you rather me tunnel on one person and not pay attention to how they interact with other people? Also - I like your choice of words in the bolded "Now you're

GOING BACK TO

the idea that she and Elli are scum" umm.. in the previous paragraph you just said I was stuck on an Elli/Kats pair... Did you forget that already? Are your lies causing you to be confused in this game?

Even though I'm almost 100% sure on Katsuki - I was iffy on Elli, with this post of yours sounding like you trying to discredit what I have said - which other people can see as well and have made comments on, I would say you just moved up to Elli level.

And I wouldn't say I "supported" Vezok, nice way of twisting my words there - I just said that I thought he was town because why would a mafia member blow up their own room, which was pointed out later that that would be a good WIFOM tactic.

LOL. I know how many scum we have left, and I think you are definitely one, and Kats is probably the other. You have maintained "suspicion" on Kats since RVS, and you first brought up the Elli idea at the end of D2. You brought it up yesterday, and today you started focusing on Kats, and a little later, you brought Elli up again. When I say "stuck on" and "going back to" THAT is what I'm talking about.


And for your stance on Vezok, allow me to refresh your memory:

Well - interesting. Vezok confirmed town AMIRITE?

Vote: Katsuki

Her top 3 consisted of myself, camn and Vezok - as far as I am concerned Vezok is probably town - getting a town vibe from camn and I know I am town.

You wanted to clear him right away on D2. He quick-hammered, then his room got blown up, and then you wanted to confirm him RIGHT AWAY, and you voted Kats AGAIN right away, just like yesterday. Today, you start with Kats AGAIN and work Elli in later on, just like you did with mongoose on D1. I'm noting a pattern of interactions.

Prev. Edit: I can only vote one at a time, Tans...defensive much?

[jenniwren]

Are you fucking serious? Let me bold the part of that quote that you should pay attention to - you know the part where I said "IT'S A BAD IDEA"

And it wouldn't be one persons word against anothers. If I say You, Button, MPR and Katsuki need to be in Katsuki's room and KAtsuki's room blew up and you wern't in there - that is pretty OBVIOUS you wern't there as you wouldn't die. And if someone said they were a light sleeper and said that for example you were not in the room you should have been in we lynch you and if you flip town we know the person who claimed they were a LS was lying.

You never explained it like this; it's more clear now that you use examples and names. And the point I was originally making was you brought up the light sleepers thing again on D3, even after the idea was dismissed on D2. It struck me as odd.

Right now I am more interested in a Tans/Kats pair--it seems much more obvious to me than an Elli/Kats pair, and I've been thinking about it since D1, so I want to investigate it.

Riiiight, yet you say this and yet everyone else pretty much sees what I see in Katsuki and brings up other points yet you still vote me, and you also still have yet to

comment on my case

on Katsuki - or

ANYONE's CASE on her

for that matter. Deflect more from your scum partner AMIRITE?

I started with you tonight because I felt like it. Now that I see I've kicked a hornet's nest, I'm going to stick with it until you either convince me you're innocent or you're lynched.

I think you're bussing her and she's bussing you in hopes we'll think you're just two town butting heads and then moving to a stronger wagon after you've made sure everyone knows you are against each other. Like now, I call you out for this behavior, and suddenly you can move away from her and onto me. I think you were going to try to maneuver the wagon to Elli earlier as you started talking about how scummy he is and how he has to be Kats' partner. (Deflecting from YOUR partner much?) I think the plan is that you bus early, and eventually you'll change your vote, lynch someone other than one another, bomb a bedroom, and then repeat.

So before I and KAt were the scum now I DEFINITELY am, and Katsuki is PROBABLY...

Yes. I think you're both scum. Like I said, I started with you tonight because I saw something in your voting patterns and your interactions and I wanted to follow up on it. Your reaction has been quite interesting.

The pattern is that I am voting for Katsuki because she is scum. Did you not notice that Katsuki removed her vote on Vezok after she saw the MPR vote - and according to her she wasn't sure that MPR had hammered or not - does that not seem scummy to you, especially now knowing how vezok flipped?

I am silly and can't believe I forgot.

Unvote, Vote tans

Vezo isn't gonna be back to explain his actions.

If MPR did in fact hammer

, he'll be facing the same questions vezo was.

Yes, I think she's scummy, but I also have a theory that you're partners making a big gambit, and I want to address that theory.

Prev. Edit: I can only vote one at a time, Tans...defensive much?

Not defensive - just frustrated that I have to take the time to answer your flailing as I have your scum buddy nailed to the wall
<SNIP>
I have a much better case on Katsuki and now Jenni (Elli is more of a gut read based on interactions between him and Katsuki)

I made one post about you, and you completely came unglued. That's defensive. There also isn't any need for you to be frustrated over one post and one vote.

[jenniwren]

First: MPR said he lurked in order to catch scum. Just want to clear that up.

[jenniwren]

It depends on whether or not they're trying to lynch me entirely as a policy lynch. If somebody thinks that I'm playing scummily, but doesn't realize that I'm always scummy, then they're not scum based off that. If they know that I always play like this and say "Hey, who cares if he's scum? I don't want to play with him so we need to lynch him!" then I'm leaning scum for them.

It was a discussion between him and camn.

[jenniwren]

Again, I need to say durp durp about your statements - do I really need to hold your hand and explain everything to you? Based on what I said could you not figure that out? Maybe you should go back to the newbie queue

No need to be a jerk? No, I didn't follow your train of thought. I like visual details; you used numbers. I can't see numbers as well as visuals.

If I haven't convinced you I am innocent then I never will, every post you have made I have countered. You are the one who seems to be ignoring the case on Katsuki made by everyone.

I didn't say she wasn't scum, but I wanted to bring attention to a theory I had about you and Kats being partners.

I haven't moved away from her and on to you...? Again this goes back to there being MORE THAN ONE scum in the game. I am going to analyze whatever people say, if they come off as scummy in what they say I will attack them for it like I attacked you.

I fail to see how I "moved away" from Katsuki *checks to see where his vote still is* yup still on Katsuki

The fact that you think I would abandon my Katsuki vote for Elli at this point is laughable - you bringing that up as a point as to why you think I am scummy is even moreso.

I had a theory, because you were starting to talk about them being partners together. I wanted to pursue that theory, so I brought it up in the thread. I didn't say you had moved your vote yet, but if my theory has merit, you would at some point. You abandoned your vote on her on D1 and voted for mongoose, and then on D2, you voted her, but it was obvious Vezo was going to be the lynch of the day, so your vote wasn't a danger to her. On D3, you both start off with the back and forth nyah-nyah again, and I read through that and then saw you start talking about Elli--and remembered that at the end of D2 you suggested them as a scum team, so I had an idea that maybe, just maybe, you were going to build an argument on him as well, and once people started voting him, you would leave Kats and go for him. When TBM said I was scum a few posts back, you said you would hop on a wagon against me, so...yeah, that's kind of where I was going.

Yeah, the fact I always went back to Katsuki is the pattern, becuz she is scum

And she says the same about you.

I like how you are playing here, so that when/if Katsuki gets lynched and if she flips scum you can say "ooh look I was right about Katsuki - I called it, Tans is scum too lets get him"

Um, no? Chances are she will be lynched today if things keep going the way they are. D3 JUST STARTED. We don't have to lynch anyone for a long time. I voted for you because I had a theory about you and Katsuki, and I wanted to discuss it. Now we're discussing it.

You seem to think everyone is defensive in this game. Let's gander at your ISO now shall we?

You completely freaked out over my post and started calling me scum. How is that not defensive? As to the ISO...it was RVS, we were trying to get discussion started, and mongoose reacted badly to an RVS vote, so I said OMGUS? And he did it again...maybe he was being sarcastic, but isn't RVS for probing reactions? Also, I wasn't the only one who commented that Vezo was being typical Vezo; he and I were in another game together at the time (still are, actually), and if you read it, you will see more of the same behaviors. Have you ever played with him?

And the only thing I can think about for "using" the roles would be to have the light sleepers claim and if we have 3 or 4 we split everyone up into those peoples rooms hoping that we put a scum in each room so even if a room gets blown up if the person wasn't in the room they were supposed to be we know they are scum. However the more I thought about it - it is a bad idea cuz even if we managed to randomly put a scum in each room and they didn't go to that room we would lose 3 townies to kill 1 scum.

Right now, scum will have a 1/10 chance to hit anyone tonight. There is a huge chance they will hit an empty room again. As the numbers dwindle (either through bombing or lynching) it will begin to get easier to work out who is who, especially since the number of open rooms will also drop. Dividing players up now would only make it easy for them to take out players they feel threatened by.

Wow, that bolded part is very insightful...

Oh wait, what's this?

I think I'll just use random.org to figure out where to hide. There really is no strategy that I can think of. There is a 1/11 chance of not dying (well 1/10 after a lynch today - I like those odds)

Hmm, you like parroting me? I posted that over 8 hours before you posted what you did.

This is the part that was important: "There is a huge chance they will hit an empty room again. As the numbers dwindle (either through bombing or lynching) it will begin to get easier to work out who is who, especially since the number of open rooms will also drop. Dividing players up now would only make it easy for them to take out players they feel threatened by." The only thing that I said that was like yours were the actual odds.

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh BABY.. JACKPOT!

So you were basically saying the reason you thought Mongoose was scum was because he was lurking.. ok

NOTED

...
What, wait... didn't you JUST use it as a "scum hunting tool" you said you thought Mongoose was probably scum because one of the reasons was "The (active?) lurking" but then you said... you have never heard of it as a scumhunting tool?
...
And then you say:
...
So, first you say mongoose is scum for lurking, then you say you haven't heard of lurking being a scumhunting tool and then after that you say you have an "uneasy feeling" about the amount of lurking? Why? You said in the post before that that it isn't used as a scumhunting tool, so why would lurking make you uneasy? Oh wait - you ALSO said in the post before that post that mongoose was scummy for lurking..

Man - it's hard to be scum isn't it? Trying to keep all these lies straight?

I hope you like rope. You are getting it after Katsuki

I said I thought mongoose was scum for active lurking (seemed like he was only posting when someone mentioned his name); the part about the "scumhunting tool" was in response to a comment made by MPR when people were talking about his lurky playstyle...it was a sarcastic response (we've already started to address that). You misunderstood the context in which I made that comment, so the rest of your argument after that is null. I wasn't talking about lurkers not being scummy, I was talking about using the act of lurking to find scum.

[jenniwren]

As to your question about lurking: I tend to make longer posts at wider intervals rather than a steady stream of lots of little posts. Go back and look at Castlevania. Also, my school of thought is that sometimes lurking is scummy, and sometimes it isn't. I.e., Pom doesn't post much, but I don't think Pom is scum. In Castlevania, VV and LMP were pretty lurky, and guess what? Kats was very active, and guess what? It's a null tell in and of itself, but if it's part of a pattern of behavior, then there might be something to it. I.e., I misread mongoose because he was active lurking and only came out to play when we talked about him, he made some bad AtE, and made this lovely post:

I agree with katsu. No content is offered, and asks for a quicklynch which is a scum tell since the longer the day goes the more likely a scum is to be caught or make a slip.
You want a quick lynch, you got one, VOTE: katsuki

His overall behavior was scummy to me, not just the lurking.


So, back to my theory...
You reacted very similarly to this when someone voted you in Castlevania. We spent a good portion of the day sorting through that mess if I remember correctly...and you turned out to be town. Part of me wants to believe you're doing the same thing here, but the other part is telling me that you got way too angry over one vote being cast.

Also, your entire defense has been built on attacking me rather than rationally addressing anything I said. Can you tone down the hate for five minutes and make a statement that explains that I'm wrong without screaming that I'm scum for daring to question you?

[jenniwren]

All but one:
You brought up the light sleeper thing on D3, which is the reason I even said anything about you bringing it up on D2.

Wondering if maybe the scum all hid in the same room on N1..

Any chance a light sleeper hid in the same room as Vezok on N1? And if so - maybe you could tell us who else was in that room?

What purpose would that information serve?

[jenniwren]

Okay...you addressed the D2 comment but not that one.

And, I don't think that the mafia have to be in the same room to do anything...but I see where you were going with it now. But I'm not sure that would be useful game info, and it would give the scum the name of a light sleeper.

I think everyone is going to hate us when they get back to this thread.

Prev. edit: Yeah, that doesn't come across the way you think it does, at least not to me.

[jenniwren]

Okay. You've debunked my theory. About you. At any rate I wanted to get it sorted out one way or the other before I did anything else.
Neeeeext:

Unvote

Vote Katsuki

[jenniwren]

Hey, I haven't read anything from today so far, but here are a few footnotes from last night that I wrote:

1) If katsuki is scum, then tanstalas is scum based on vote 2 off katsuki onto mongoose
2) MPR = maybe scum. Voted Vezok when 2 other bigger wagons and stays on til end, but gives good reasons. vezok gets angry, point in MPR favor
3) tantalas = scum based on 188, insinuates vezok is clean after being attacked.
4) MPR looks really bad after 259.
5) Take the above notes with a grain of salt because I was pretty tired when I was writing them. They might not make sense to me when I go thru again.

My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I remember reading through the thread, and then katsuki did that thing, and I got suspicious of her. But then I watched the reactions unfold and started to think she was town. Regardless, Tantalas looks really scummy to me, so I will leave my vote on him

vote: Tantalas

What do you think about the debate Tans and I had on page 16?

Right now, I'm not sure what to think of the tans/jenn debate.

I didn't read through it thoroughly

, but what I'm getting from it is that tans won, jenni failed (which she admitted to herself.) I'm not sure what to think at the moment. Tans got a little more town to me, and jenni got a little more scummy to me. I'm not even sure what to think at this point. Tans's play has been somewhat contradictory at this point, going from humorous to all of a sudden serious when put under pressure. Jenni's case against tans failed and she went off running towards kats. Not sure what to think of it, but I'll I tell you right now, I really don't like it. But I do need to time to think of it.

You admitted you didn't really read the debate and yet you have the brass to use it as an argument against me? If you're going to make a case on someone, at least read what they write. I had a theory about Tans, and I pressed him about it, and he sufficiently addressed my questions, so I backed off and moved on. Also, Kats has been on my list since D1 (ISO 9), and can you seriously deny the concerns raised about her today?

[jenniwren]

Drunk posts are always fun to read.

By the way... My instinct?
If Katsu is town, scum would have jumped on the wagon by now.
If Katsu IS scum, her partners are NOT on the wagon right now, and are lurking. Which is almost certainly the case. Scum wouldn't be letting a mislynch lose steam, IMO.

Let's lynch her, check the flip, and catch the rest of the scum with their pants down.

If she's scum then there's only one scum left. There would only be more than one if she flips town.

Hm. Thinking. More to come.

[jenniwren]

I thought Tans was scum?

[jenniwren]

Thoughts:

TBM's case on FC seems pretty solid, and FC's defense is...not good.

However, I question how quickly camn seemed to change her mind about pushing the Kats wagon--and that when she unvoted Kats and voted FC, she told Kats to play better tomorrow. That sounds like camn thinks Kats is town and can redeem herself? I'm confused now.

Posts 491-495 are...suspicious. MBF has good feelings about 3 people, but his vote is one of them. TBM calls him out, so he unvotes. TBM tells him to vote for FC or explain why he isn't, so MBF votes, but calls attention to the fact that the case isn't going anywhere right now. The whole exchange reeks of fence-sitting and maybe even a reluctant bus vote. Why does MBF only have good feelings about three people? Why list them instead of his top scum reads? Why waffle over voting and vote for FC only when coaxed?

Some of the wishy-washiest comments:

I suppose I should, since he's the best case I've seen so far. It won't make a difference however, if others continue to ignore it.

I read it, and while I don't agree with a few things at the end, I agree with most things. It is a good case that others need to comment on, because it definitely holds merit. I also think his countering of said case contains little that would actually redeem him.

Unvote

Thinking through some of this. If FC is scum, then I'm thinking MBF is his buddy, based on 491-495 (also based on FC's opening comments to him which could have been distancing). However, if FC is town, then TBM and camn should be looked at because of the timing of the case and camn's wagon-hopping (moreso the comments to Kats to play better).

I'm not completely sold yet, but at least a FC lynch would perhaps yield some useful info as to which direction we should look next. Will vote soon.

[jenniwren]

I don't like being called wishy-washy. Some of us don't know everything,

jenniscum

, and as a townsperson I have the right to be uncertain.

I also don't like how you ask questions passively instead of directly. I'm right here, ya know? I had suspicions on Tantalas, but upon review I decided that they weren't very strong; I had forgotten I was voting him. There's nothing wrong with me pointing out that the FC wagon wasn't going anywhere in an effort to draw attention to it. There's no reason for me to have good feelings about more than three players given the current situation. And there's no mandate to vote somebody if I don't feel like it.

As a townsperson, I have a right and a duty to ask questions when I think someone is suspicious. Sorry I didn't ask you directly; I'm trying to catch up on all my games and am writing my thoughts as notes.

There might not be anything wrong with anything you're doing, but I'm questioning the intentions behind what you're doing.

Your reaction to my questions is pretty hostile. Why is that?

[jenniwren]

Mike: I didn't mean to insult you; I was pursuing a thought.
camn: I was reading your posts, which is why what you said to Kats about playing better tomorrow struck me as funny.
MPR: Why camn over Katsu?
NPIAU/TBM: coming back to you guys, it's dinnertime.

[jenniwren]

Now, Jenni.. I will try and set my bitchiness aside for a while. (its been a frustrating month!)
So, honestly... are you still confused?

(were you ever? maybe that was a passive-aggressive scum-chainsaw?)

Do you have any questions as to why I want Katsu Lynched?
Does anyone? i think I have been clear.. but I welcome questions.

Nope, not confused anymore. (And I was confused because I had just gleaned that you thought she was scum and that was stuck in my head, so I was curious about why you would leave off voting her for FC and tell her to lay better.) (I am kind of scattered right now, between the games and working on my dissertation, and I didn't get much sleep this weekend.)

That being said, I don't buy NPIAU's theory of a Kats/camn team At ALL. I briefly entertained the idea of a camn/someone team, but she has rebutted that idea into the cold dead ground.



Also, Happy Birthday DGB.

(October 5th is the most popular birthday, by the way. New Year's babies!)

[jenniwren]

I'm sorry I haven't posted...been super busy this week and will catch up soon.

[jenniwren]

Post 176 by jenniwren REALLY rubs me wrong. She says that her initial vote on mongoose was random, but she kept it there anyway because he acted nervous, which is a pretty weak reason. She also says that there is definitely a scum on the wagon or perhaps two, which is odd because she doesn't give any reason WHY that would be the case. Then she sets MPR up to be suspected tomorrow regardless of mongoose's flip. This is a very strange post, indeed.
Day is then ended by Vezok's hammer.
TOWN mongoose (7): jenniwren, Budja, tanstalas, Katsuki, camn, Ellibereth, vezokpiraka

Um, how did I set up MPR in that post? Do you mean TBM? My initial vote on mongoose WAS random, but then he acted weird when I voted him, so I kept it there. It was RVS, so it's not like there was much to go on, and that seemed as good a reason as any at that time. After that he made some odd comments in thread, and then that AtE. With all of that, I never had a reason to change my RVS vote.

I explained why I thought people were scummy. The way his wagon built made me think at least one of his scumbuddies was on it (distancing), and I explained gave scumreads based on how people were interacting with one another. At that time, mongoose seemed scummiest, and TBM seemed next scummiest.

Anyway...
I got behind in pretty much all of my games last week and I'm trying to catch up.

[jenniwren]

Pomegranate: In your ISO, I notice that all of your votes are cast based on someone else's argument other than your own. You say something like "I agree" and then vote. Now you're offering to lynch NPIAU if someone else can get a wagon going. Do you have any thoughts about him or Kats or anyone else that you could add?

Katsuki: What happened to Tans being scum? Also, the VC you posted is a nice IoA; care to explain how you reached your conclusion that I was scum other than the fact that I voted for you? You're piggybacking on MBF's post. In fact, all of your accusations have been at people who accuse/vote for you.

MPR: not only AWOL, but also has not contributed an original thought to the game at all.

Vote: Katsuki

[jenniwren]

More like wanting to generate discussion about something...anything...at this point. No one is saying or doing much to talk about, which makes it hard to analyze what they are doing at all. The lurkiness and general inactivity which has plagued us since the beginning of the game is a huge demotivator. =\

Pom is posting in other threads, but has consistently not posted content in this thread, which makes me question her. She's also had a vote on Kats for most of the game, and she was also on the very easy Vezo wagon but hasn't provided much content at all. No one has really given her much attention, either, which also makes me curious. I mean, there have a been a few comments about her lurkiness, but nothing substantial.

Katsuki, why did you lie about the room thing? Why bring it up at all?

I think Katsuki or Pom would be my top two choices for a lynch. I would have said MPR, but his replacement should have a chance to do something.

[jenniwren]

Pom: Do you think you will be able to post soon?
NPIAU: You think Pom is scummy but you aren't "feeling Spyrex's case" on her; is she only scummy because of her reason for voting you?

[jenniwren]

@NPIAU: Defensive much? I asked a question, and I didn't twist your words. I just wanted clarification.

V/LA

for a few days. My parents are visiting and I've been getting ready (read: cleaning house) for them for a couple of days already, and they will be here all week. I will not be completely unavailable, but I will be away more.

[jenniwren]

Before you lynch my slot, I have notified DGB that I need to replace out; (hopefully my replacement will prove more useful). I apologize for this, but I can't keep up with the game at this time. GL to everyone; happy hunting.

[jenniwren]

I'm not freaking out, just wanted to give you a head's up since you guys were mulling a lynch for uselessness.

And yeah, there's not really a pace, and I'm completely stumped and feel like dead weight here. My dissertation director also sent me a lovely email today with all kinds of veiled threats, and therefore I'm having to reevaluate some of my extra-curricular activities, and cutting back on games is necessary. I have one or two that may be close to ending, but if at least one doesn't, I will probably have to drop more.

[jenniwren]

Congrats to the winners! I hated having to replace out, but I had to start focusing more on my dissertation or I was going to be in trouble at school. DGB, this game was fun (while I was in it), but it would have been more fun if we had been more successful at NKs. I think we out-WIFOM'd ourselves a few too many times, lol. Daytime was also a tricky little tap dance through a mine field, too; if the game hadn't progressively slowed down on both sides, I don't think scum would have been able to win.

[jenniwren]

Iecerint, you made my universe when you said "I don't think she's the kind of player who would be sneaky and subvert this very well." I shared that with a few friends who found it inordinately funny...why? Because I am an extremely sneaky and subversive person in general. (Chaotic Good all the freaking way. )