Civilization Mafia - Town Wins!

[Iammars]

Posting to let you know that I have a day off tomorrow, and I will have a post for y'all then.

[SinisterOverlord]

Sire, the votes stand as follows:

EmpTyger: 8 (HezLucky, d8P, inHimshallibe, Astronaut, Mr. Flay, Puzzle, armlx, rajrhcpfreak)
swinkee: 1 (Mastermind of Sin)
Mastermind of Sin: 1 (dybeck)
Mr. Flay: 1 (Vesuvan)

10 to lynch.

[Vesuvan]

Thok's reponse to that, however, was rather telling.

FOS: Thok

Explain, please? EmpTyger made certain posts that strongly suggested that if he was a Civ (rather than a barbarian group) then he was a main game Civ; for example, his post asking why this was a 20 person game. Or do you have some other reason for giving me the FOS?

My bad - I looked at the wrong "previous statements". FOS retracted now you've clarified.

Happy with my vote. Scum would just

love

to know if they can fake from the expansion sets...

*raises eyebrow*

(I had made a longer post here, but Emptyger has beaten me to it)

Anyhoo, I haven't seen enough from Flay to think he's a better lynch than EmpTyger today, though he's definitely right up there.

Unvote, Vote: Emptyger

[EmpTyger]

So far I see 1 legitimate reason out of all this nonsense for I am being voted, and that’s for my comment about guilty civilizations. (I am willing to concede that I deserve some suspicion for that, though I would argue that I am not currently most suspicious, nor that that offense is worthy of a lynch at this point.) However, I partially excuse Astronaut, Puzzle, d8P, and Flay for voting me. The rest {HezL, inHim, armlx, rajrhcpfreak}, have at this point either not stated a reason or not stated a legitimate one. Vesuvan and Thok for their past votes this game I also put on the latter list. For this reason I’d *really* like someone to unvote me, even unconvinced, so that day does not end prematurely if they think they have nothing to lose.

Now, to be productive:
Can anyone explain why we should not follow my proposal about counterclaiming and verifying basic/expansion? Or, alternately, why we should do anything other than that or lynch Thok?

Because those are the *only* two possibilities:

Either my proposal doesn’t hurt the town or Thok was lying.

(Note that they are not necessarily mutually exclusive)


d_rouge:

<snip>I cannot counterclaim any of the players that claimed, if that's useful to know. I think we should really think if it's worth claiming as a defense, since there's not really much that we can get from a claim now. A part from a counterclaim there's no way I can see to tell the difference between a false claim and a true one.
And I don't think that we should let go anyone that is not counterclaimed.<snip>

Which is one of the reasons why I really want to have everyone acknowledge the existing claims today. Especially since nighttime would allow mafia to coordinate a counterclaiming strategy.
And “not really much that we can get from a claim now” implies that you believe that I revealed all of the flavor Puzzle alluded to…


Thok:
Sorry, don’t understand [394], unless you’re simply confirming me but don’t want to say so more explicitly lest you accidentally convince others to unvote me.


VisM:

<snip>Given the raw power of an allcop town, scum might decide to take a gamble, even when sacrificing their own.

Yes, this is certainly a possibility, but see the end of my reply to inHim. In this case Thok is guiltier than I.


inHim:

<snip>And I don't know how much more I can explain my reasoning. I thought it was fairly clear.

No, it’s wasn’t, and still isn’t. You’ve listened 6 reasons for voting me. I’ll repeat them.

1) “the Hez thing”
2) “counting people”
3) making the statement that a 4:1 innocent:guilty ratio seems too high
4) “dropping early clues”
5) “seems to have information”
6) letting scum know about expansion sets.

I don’t know what 2 is or why it would make me guilty. (if you think so, say how!)
I don’t know why 3 would make me guilty. (if you think it does, say why!)
I haven’t done 4. (if you think I have, say where!)
I haven’t done 5. (if you think I have, say where!)
6 isn’t a reason to vote me. (see below)

“Fairly clear”???

And to explain why the four possibilities I set forth deserved more than sarcasm:
In Case 1 I wasn’t giving anything away. So there’s no reason to vote me. (But there is to vote Thok)
In Case 2 and 3 I’m innocent and therefore shouldn’t be voted.
In Case 4, Thok is just a good a lynch as I am.

In every case, if Thok does not deserve to be lynched, than neither do I. If you’re lynching based on this logic, he’s just as good if not better.

[EmpTyger]

I am at lynch - 1, and Thok has *nothing* to lose by lynching me. Someone unvote, at the very least so that the question of coordinated vs. uncoordinated nightactions is clarified.

[EmpTyger]

Actually here:

Unless this issue is resettled after this post, townspeople should conduct nightactions as they personally feel is best, and *not* based on any set instruction in the thread.

I would strongly advise against wasting an investigation on Thok, because he'll be dead regardless by the end of Day 2.

[obviously, this is void in the instance of my being lynched and found guilty]

[Thok]

I am at lynch - 1, and Thok has *nothing* to lose by lynching me. Someone unvote, at the very least so that the question of coordinated vs. uncoordinated nightactions is clarified.

But I have everything to gain by letting the day last longer.

If you really think I'm scum, then you clearly totally missed the point of 394, and are therefore either unwilling to do two minutes worth of research, or are scum.

Any pro-town player can (by doing four minutes worth of research) figure out the point of 394.

[HezLucky]

Heh, I figured it out in 10 seconds.

[inHimshallibe]

Thok's reponse to that, however, was rather telling.

FOS: Thok

Explain, please? EmpTyger made certain posts that strongly suggested that if he was a Civ (rather than a barbarian group) then he was a main game Civ; for example, his post asking why this was a 20 person game. Or do you have some other reason for giving me the FOS?

My bad - I looked at the wrong "previous statements". FOS retracted now you've clarified.

Happy with my vote. Scum would just

love

to know if they can fake from the expansion sets...

*raises eyebrow*

(I had made a longer post here, but Emptyger has beaten me to it)

Anyhoo, I haven't seen enough from Flay to think he's a better lynch than EmpTyger today, though he's definitely right up there.

Unvote, Vote: Emptyger

Did you read my next couple of posts?

[d8P]

Any pro-town player can (by doing four minutes worth of research) figure out the point of 394.

I've totally blanked how Emp would know about that. OK, you told him that we have flavour, but how did he know what we have? You didn't mention it Thok, nor did Puzzle that I can see and the mod didn't write anything in the death scene.

Did I miss it?

[d_rouge]

I have to say I somehow overlooked that flavour thing, but that's a kind of thing that anyone that has played Civ3 knows. Of course scum cannot be sure that such an information is given in the townie PM, but it could very well have been a successful gamble.

[VisMaior]

Lets end this already. this is easyly the longest day 1 I have seen so far. Even if EMP is protown, we have 80% chance of catching scum in the night, so lets do that.

vote Emptyger

[Thok]

Well, I think with those two posts, there's no reason for me to prolong the day any longer.

Vote EmpTyger

[VisMaior]

Hehe, simulpost

[VisMaior]

Or maybe not... !!!

[d8P]

I was about to post a clue about why I've voted Emp to prove I know what's going on, but realised the scum might work it out and use it to their advantage.

B

ut

h

ow

d

o I show later that I know what's going on? I suppose I'll have to wait till twilight.

I have the feeling Emp will work it out soon,

b

ut

h

ow

d

umb do you have to be not to see it? I was sure too much had been given away when I read it

b

ut

h

opefully

d

umb scum is what we have in this game.

Risky maybe, but I figure this reference was too obscure to be seen. I repeated b h d three times to show that I know why HezLucky is town (in a post where I said I was about to post a clue, but...). Not sure if I should explain further. Yet.

[SinisterOverlord]

Sire, the votes stand as follows:

EmpTyger: 11 (HezLucky, d8P, inHimshallibe, Astronaut, Mr. Flay, Puzzle, armlx, rajrhcpfreak, Vesuvan, VisMaior, Thok)
swinkee: 1 (Mastermind of Sin)
Mastermind of Sin: 1 (dybeck)

10 to lynch.

-

We have signed a military alliance against EmpTyger!

*combat ensues*

Great news, sire! Our forces have captured the Chinese city of Beijing! We also looted 14 gold from its coffers!
- Great! Install a new govenor
- We don't want it. Raze the city!

Sire, we have destroyed the fledgling Chinese.

EmpTyger, Mao of the Chinese, has been destroyed.

It is now Night 2. Please send in night choices as soon as possible

[SinisterOverlord]

Deadline for choices: Thursday, 17th November, 12 PM GMT

[SinisterOverlord]

Sire, we have detected a massive barbarian uprising near New York!
Sire, we have detected a massive barbarian uprising near Boston!
Our Caravel has been ambushed by barbarians!
Terrible news, sire! Boston has been ransacked by barbarian forces! They stole 148 gold from its coffers!
Terrible news, sire! Washington has been ransacked by barbarian forces! They stole 215 gold from its coffers!

...

Sire, we have destroyed the fledgling Americans.

Vesuvan, Abe Lincon of the Americans, has been destroyed.

-

It is now day 2. With 17 alive, it is 9 to lynch.

We have some problems with inactive players. I'm trying to find replacements as much as possible, but several people did not turn in night choices, as well as being very inactive yesterday. If this persists and I'm unable to find replacements, I will have no choice but to modkill those players.

[Puzzle]

Vote Rajhr...

[Mastermind of Sin]

why?

[Puzzle]

See #314.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I still think we've got a lurker problem, but IF enough people can agree on my possible townieness, then wouldn't it be worth looking at my wagon for info, mmhhh ?
By the way, guys, a wagon taking off to 7 in 2 pages seems really fast to me.

Puzzle: 7 (Vesuvan, armlx, rajrhcpfreak, Mr. Flay, inHimshallibe, Thok, HezLucky)

Of these:
Vesuvan : started the wagon by what I think to be quite an overstated case. However, if Rajrhcpfreak is scum (see below), I doubt he would have jumped on a fellow scum wagon like he did.
Armlx : I know Armlx to behave regularly like he did, which earned him quite a few day 1 lynches before.

Rajrhcpfreak :

wagonning on no-lynch with 0 personal input + against all-cop + wagonning on me with 0 personal input as 3rd (oh, a tell...) = scummy to me.
Mr. Flay : seems to have thought well (better than me) of how the town manages units. Although I don't think the argument proves much on my alignment, it underlines his center of interest, making him more townish. Additionally, he helped pushing the all-cop and no-No-Lynch, if I remember well.
Inhim : seemed genuinely to see my points against Vesuvan's arguments and refused to join (even voting Mr Flay). Then, when understanding Mr Flay, votes me. He didn't seem eager to wagon for the sake of wagonning : townish.

Thok

: much has already been said about him. His behaviour on my wagon reeks more of scum pushing it to get a lynch than townie analyzing it and coming to a conclusion, imho. i may want to make a re-read on him first, though. Look at #282 : he wagons, but doesn't seem to see Mr Flay's point anymore than me ("it feels like his most recent comments about unit development are an attempt to change discussion"), just saying I ignored comments although I spent quite a bit of time answering everything I could. So, he wagons but doesn't actually bring a valid reason.
HezLucky : no actual reason to suspect him. Barning Mr Flay and Inhim.

Looking at the whole picture, that would make scums in 3rd and 6th position : quite like what I'd expect Mafia to do, personally.

So, for now,

vote Thok

. I could vote Rajr too, and would say that to me either Rajrhcpfreak is scum, or Vesuvan, but not both (not a false dilemna, just analysis of #250 : I doubt a scum would wagon with another one as 1st and 3rd vote in such a manner.
Still, Vesuvan redirecting the heat to EmpTyger, when some people confirms my info matches their PMs and when Emptyger is after Thok, doesn't help me choosing between him and Rajrhcpfreak. This is why I'd rather begin with Thok.

sounds like a good place to start, though the methodical elimination of your list so far (through lynch and nk) makes me wary of you yourself. However, it's early in the day and I'm willing to see where this goes.

vote: rajr

[Thok]

Before we start voting, shouldn't we decide what to do with last night's cop investigation?

[VisMaior]

First we should see if anyone has any cop nvestigations, I think.