NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[Robbnva]

Lol at me keeping to the backround. I've posted more than half the people playing

and a wraith lynch right now will give us more info. You keep saying you are a mislynch but your overactions support that it isn't

[Robbnva]

I just want to say bunny moving his vote to wraith seemed weird for some reason. Not sure why though.

[Flameaxe]

Votecount 2.13

Wraith [7] (Gorrad, Mysterio, Benmage, ConfidAnon, danakillsu, Rob, Bunnylover)

Mysterio [5] (Flinter, Singersigner, @.@, Wraith, hiphop)
Prozac [3] (Shanba, Kise, Lowell)
Hiphop [1] (Prozac)
UltimaAvalon [1] (UltimaAvalon)
dana [1] (Reck)
Flinter [1] (Wickedestjr)
Robbnva [1] (Xite)

Not Voting [1] (My Milked Eek)

With 21 alive it will take 11 for a lynch and 11 for a no lynch.

Deadline:

Friday September 17th, 2010, 9:00 PM MST. This deadline is negotiable by a majority vote.

[Shanba]

UA and MME probably need to get their vote somewhere more useful. Actually, I still don't really know who UA thinks is scum - he's said it's Jd/his replacement but he hasn't followed that up with a vote.

[Robbnva]

Ok shanba, kise, and Lowell all voted for Poro and none of them gave a good reason

shanba - to explore another avenue
kise - voted cause poro said "did you do any research"
Lowell - to find a wagon that sticks

None of these votes make any sense and none have a real reason for their vote

If they don't agree with the wraith or mysterio wagons they need to do some scum hunting or something cause those votes are lame

[Shanba]

Bullshit. I laid down my case.

[Shanba]

Page 49, post 1205, plus a later post where I whine that no one has responded to it. Which reminds me

Wraith: I'm not convinced by your case on Mysterio. There are some points I like, some I don't; mostly, his play is reminiscent (to me) of a player still finding their feet at mafia, particularly as we play it on mafiascum. For example, his vote on Jdodge reminds me of a similar vote I made in my very very first game as town. There's enough there that I wouldn't cry about him being lynched, as I think he's somewhat scummy, but eh. It just doesn't enthuse me much.

[danakillsu]

Wow, amazing. My two WoTs were COMPLETELY ignored. Especially by my primary suspects and wagoneers.

@dana: If Xite was my scumpartner and bussing me then laying off all of a sudden was the stupidest decision, ever. My bus was in the bag, Xite's major town cred was assured...Oh wait. I'm town, Xite's town, and you're being an idiot. Open your eyes, read my damn WoTs, and tell me what you think.

Well in a way it would have been stupid. But only in the sense that it allowed me to find scum. Xite did a pretty good job there of derailing your wagon, and I'm beginning to think we may never get you lynched. So how good a performance it was depends on whether we can still lynch you.
And I didn't comment on your WoTs for the same reason as Gorrad. I really don't feel like defending an overall scumread and an overall nullread, and I didn't find your arguments ridiculously good, so I don't want to switch my vote either.

[Xite91]

@xite - I am not pushing a wagon cause pushing wagons are scummy.

Nuff said.

I already said earlier I thought mysterio could be scum, I even voted him when Xite ran his scummy gambit, but the fact that you are pushing Mysterio now makes want to look into Mysterio some more cause if you are scummy which I think you are, you pushing mysterio now could be just an attempt to get the bandwagon off of you.

The fact that you even admitted you played up the overexageration to people voting you so they will actually unvote me is really the iciing on the cake, it was a gambit you ran and has not worked like you thought it would. (and than the cherry on top was telling the cop to investigate you, I have done this all the time when I was scum, especially when I was the GF. It is an attempt to make the cop think you really are innocent and than they won't investigate you. I know this cause every time I have used that the cop never investigated me the next night so I am not buying this either.)

as for your WOT on me, I am not even going to waste my time responding to yet another one on me. I have responded to 2 and anything you have to say about me is discredited because like Xite said, we are allowed to discredit people's opinions so I discredit the opinions of scum.

K. If robbie is scum, mystie is scum.

Right now my list of Scum are Wraith and Xite. I still think Mysterio is scum but the fact that Wraith is trying to attack him it could mean they are possibly different scum groups

Yup. Setting up lynches with a side of scum distancing.

1) Anyways, back to business. Xite, considering this is a large game I'm thinking there's a 4-man mafia at least. One is dead, of course, and because of that I'm fairly positive there's an SK. I'm discounting the possibility of a second mafia because nhammen's flip was simply "mafia goon" and not "red mafia goon" or something. At the moment, my belief on the scumteam is this:

2) nhammen/Mysterio/Robbnva/Prozac

3) For now, though, we need to lynch Mysterio. Mysterio's very likely scumflip will give us a lot of needed info and probably change the tune of some buddied townies, which I'm more inclined to believe Gorrad is.

Mod, vote count and deadline please.

1) Lets wait until we have 1-2 more mafia flips before we really start speculating that.
2) Keep this list in mind. I believe you have something there with robbie and mystie, but hold the phone on prozac.
3) We need a robbie flip, and then all will be clear.

Lol at me keeping to the backround. I've posted more than half the people playing

and a wraith lynch right now will give us more info. You keep saying you are a mislynch but your overactions support that it isn't

He means you're not scumhunting, which you're not. You're slipping through the cracks because you play like a VI.
And you posting more has nothing to do with you alignment, not to mention the vast amount of triple posts you do.
It's like you're looking for people to notice that you're there.

Ok shanba, kise, and Lowell all voted for Poro and none of them gave a good reason

shanba - to explore another avenue
kise - voted cause poro said "did you do any research"
Lowell - to find a wagon that sticks

None of these votes make any sense and none have a real reason for their vote

If they don't agree with the wraith or mysterio wagons they need to do some scum hunting or something cause those votes are lame

And here is why prozac is town. He starts getting defended by robbie (flailing scum) after someone says that they're a scumgroup, a failed attempt at buddying.

[Robbnva]

Lol u beleive what you want but I'm not scum

you need to make sure you know what you ate talking about before makeing bold accusations that are false

[UltimaAvalon]

UA and MME probably need to get their vote somewhere more useful. Actually, I still don't really know who UA thinks is scum - he's said it's Jd/his replacement but he hasn't followed that up with a vote.

You'll note MME hasnt even posted since he replaced whoever. I'm not voting @.@ because I cant come up with an argument better than gut/the person you replaced, neither of which are fair points to argue against. That said, I'll move my vote when I'm sure the person I'm voting deserves it.

Lol u beleive what you want but I'm not scum

you need to make sure you know what you ate talking about before makeing bold accusations that are false

Robb, you realize it's posts like this got got Frank lynched, right?

[Robbnva]

No it was frank OMGUS voting everyone

a falsely accused townie is allowed to defend himself
Xite says he knows I am 100% scum

that is 100% a lie

[UltimaAvalon]

No it was frank OMGUS voting everyone

a falsely accused townie is allowed to defend himself
Xite says he knows I am 100% scum

that is 100% a lie

No it was because he was self-destructive. You're quickly approaching that point. Nowhere does Xite say "I 100% know you're scum". She does 100% believe you to be scum, however, and that is not something you can refute. Yes, you can defend yourself, but "nuh uh" is not a valid defense. And that's basically what your argument against Xite has become

[Robbnva]

No it was frank OMGUS voting everyone

a falsely accused townie is allowed to defend himself
Xite says he knows I am 100% scum

that is 100% a lie

No it was because he was self-destructive. You're quickly approaching that point. Nowhere does Xite say "I 100% know you're scum". She does 100% believe you to be scum, however, and that is not something you can refute. Yes, you can defend yourself, but "nuh uh" is not a valid defense. And that's basically what your argument against Xite has become

lol I am not quickly approaching that and I am not self destructing.

Question for everyone playing this game I am going to give you 2 scenarios and you tell me which is scummier

Scenario 1 - Player A posts reason for his vote on player B and never changes his vote

Scenario 2 - Player A pushes hard to lynch Player B and once there are a bunch of votes leaves the bandwagon because all of a sudden for no reason whatso ever, that person is not scummy anymore


Also @UA - in this game all anyone has is their word and the only way somebody can defend themselves is to say Nuh Uh, if I had some other way to prove I am pro town I gladly would but I can't.

I posted valid reasons for my vote on wraith and only waivered when Xite used a scummy gambit tactic to get rid of the wagon he pushed for, when that didn't work he just unvoted all together and has seemed to team up with Xite now.

also Xite is a gril? that explains a lot

[UltimaAvalon]

Question for everyone playing this game I am going to give you 2 scenarios and you tell me which is scummier

Scenario 1 - Player A posts reason for his vote on player B and never changes his vote

Scenario 2 - Player A pushes hard to lynch Player B and once there are a bunch of votes leaves the bandwagon because

all of a sudden for no reason whatso ever, that person is not scummy anymore

Player B responded to Player A's gambit in such a way that convinced Player A that Player B wasn't quite as scummy as Player A originally thought

1, most def

Also @UA - in this game all anyone has is their word and the only way somebody can defend themselves is to say Nuh Uh, if I had some other way to prove I am pro town I gladly would but I can't.

You have to convince me, and everyone else who has no idea what your role is that you have a pro-town role. "Nuh uh" does not accomplish this. You have to convince us that you are less scummy than the persons you believe to be scum. "Nuh uh" does not accomplish this.

also Xite is a gril? that explains a lot

I have no idea. Xite seems like a male name, but small Powerpuff Girls av has me lean towards female.

[Robbnva]

ok my ISO at Xite

1-10 is basically garbage posts nothing really I would consider serious
11 - Declares Frank, Wraith, and Jdodge as scum and says dana is scum and he points out reasons why but by end of the post changes to Frank, Wraith, Bunny. (clearly she nailed the Frank one )
12 - Adds signger to scum list because she did not like Singer's post, which I personally found nothing wrong with
13 - basically just attacks a bunch of people's posts but doesn't really say anything of value or merit. Some fluff posting in there also. (anytime spaghetti is mentioned, I consider it full cause anyone who posts their own opinions could be accused of that.)
15 - basically says voting to get reactions is scummy(umm no it isn't on day 1) and the rest is just filler
17 - I 100% agree with the entire post
18 - says she likes the idea of tracker tracking dana but than clouds the post with reason why they should probably not want to do it. tracking dana would have been a good idea if we have one and only come out if dana goes nowhere or visits a person who dies.
21 - only useful info in there is wraith is 100% scumbuddy
22 - oooh look at me I know so much about mafia and you all are so dumb so I am going to explain it to everyone :rolleyes:
23 - Xite, basically Ad Hom means personal attacks on another poster (I think)
24 - Xite basically says he disagrees with Wraith's comment, which actually is a good suggestion by wraith(Hindsight of course, in the moment i am not even sure I saw that)
27 - Xite wants to lynch frank and wraith after wraith suggests he could try and get himself lynched
28 - I love this one, Wraith seems to know frank will flip town and X - says frank will flip scum. seems sort of fake to me
29 - another comment that wraith is a lynch candidate
31 - somehow me commenting about the style of play here is different from where I normally play means I am opening myself to change my opinion if it calls for it (an unprovoked and unwarranted attack that actually makes no god damn sense) Also that seems to put me on her scum radar for whatever reason
32 - more proof that Xite's reads aren't very good
33 - not sure if this qualifies for WIFOM or something but if frank flips scum than the following are probably scum - Flinter, Jdodge, Hiphop, myself, and Wraith. Since frank flipped town, that should mean we are all innocent now, but of course not. Xite wants to throw as many people under the bus as possible. (oh adds a "disclaimer" so she can change her opinion if she has to which when she said it to me she implied it was scummy behavior so that would mean Xite doing it would be scummy too) Also accuseas frank of "throwing spaghetti" but isn't naming out 4 to 6 people and calling them all scum without any real evidence "throwing spaghetti"? Xite if you are going to accuse people of throwing spaghetti, maybe you shoudl stop throwing some yourself.
36 - Says the most popular wagons had valid reasons, but yet Xite never voted for dana even though she just said that wagon had valid reasons.
40 - Xite really just said "there's your proof" and it was a quote of frank voting Xite (so your proof frank is scum is actually you OMGUS cause frank voted you, good to know you like to OMGUS also)
41 - shortly after saying scum will try and post reasons they are town, X posts she doesn't care what people thnk of her, reverse psychology? Oh also said she likes to see people's reactions but earlier in the game said somebody else was scummy for the exact same thing. Damn the contradictions keep coming
81 - starts the new day voting Wraith.

sigh, it's getting late. kind of hard to weed through Xite's ISOs cause she posts a bunch of words that really don't amount to much, yet she accuses others of the same thing. I will try and do more later, but people need to step back and make sure they want Xite leading them cause her reads haven't panned out yet and not sure they ever will.

Dana, you wanted a suggestion on who to investigate? Xite would be the first person I would investigate if I was a cop. She is doing a damn good job of making herself look town, would not suprise me if she was actually mafia. She says people are scum because of things they do and she goes and does the same things.

[Robbnva]

Question for everyone playing this game I am going to give you 2 scenarios and you tell me which is scummier

Scenario 1 - Player A posts reason for his vote on player B and never changes his vote

Scenario 2 - Player A pushes hard to lynch Player B and once there are a bunch of votes leaves the bandwagon because

all of a sudden for no reason whatso ever, that person is not scummy anymore

Player B responded to Player A's gambit in such a way that convinced Player A that Player B wasn't quite as scummy as Player A originally thought

1, most def

Also @UA - in this game all anyone has is their word and the only way somebody can defend themselves is to say Nuh Uh, if I had some other way to prove I am pro town I gladly would but I can't.

You have to convince me, and everyone else who has no idea what your role is that you have a pro-town role. "Nuh uh" does not accomplish this. You have to convince us that you are less scummy than the persons you believe to be scum. "Nuh uh" does not accomplish this.

also Xite is a gril? that explains a lot

I have no idea. Xite seems like a male name, but small Powerpuff Girls av has me lean towards female.

so somebody who has found reasons to think that person is scum and wants them lynched and will not change because he still finds that person scummy, is scummy to you? oh jesus use your brain man. so you think flip flopping is not scummy? And don't change my words, the words you added in to scenario 2 is not accurate

[Xite91]

1) lol I am not quickly approaching that and I am not self destructing.

Question for everyone playing this game I am going to give you 2 scenarios and you tell me which is scummier

2) Scenario 1 - Player A posts reason for his vote on player B and never changes his vote

3) Scenario 2 - Player A pushes hard to lynch Player B and once there are a bunch of votes leaves the bandwagon because all of a sudden for no reason whatso ever, that person is not scummy anymore


4) Also @UA - in this game all anyone has is their word and the only way somebody can defend themselves is to say Nuh Uh, if I had some other way to prove I am pro town I gladly would but I can't.

5) also Xite is a gril? that explains a lot

1) You really are. Point out a few posts that aren't and I might believe you.
2) Depends on the situation. Lets say he posts reasons for player b, but then changes his mind and thinks player b isn't scum, but leaves his vote on said player. In that scenario (and a few others, but you can just read up on mafia theory, something I really feel you should do anyways) it is ridiculously scummy.
3) All of a sudden for no reason whatsoever huh? Funny, I'm pretty sure it was because I found someone better to lynch. And a few other reasons. How about you READ THE THREAD. Fuck, what has mafia come to? This is like my third game at once that people were being just plain stupid because they hadn't read the whole thread.
4) No, what people can do to defend themselves is to dispute the claims against them, saying why they aren't true, simply saying "nuh-uh" is something that townies should never do.
5) No, I am not a gril. Sorry to disappoint.

[Xite91]

so somebody who has found reasons to think that person is scum and wants them lynched and will not change because he still finds that person scummy, is scummy to you? oh jesus use your brain man. so you think flip flopping is not scummy? And don't change my words, the words you added in to scenario 2 is not accurate

A townie that finds someone scummy enough to warrant a lynch will push a case against them. Guess what you said you weren't doing. That means you don't find them scummy enough to warrant a lynch, therefore you are trying simply to slide by. That is scummy.
The words you said are not accurate either. I do have reasons to believe he's town, but not the reasons UA stated. Go back and read.

[UltimaAvalon]

so somebody who has found reasons to think that person is scum and wants them lynched and will not change because he still finds that person scummy, is scummy to you?

That's basically the definition of tunnel-vision, which is the cancer that's killing this game. Yes.

so you think flip flopping is not scummy?

There's a huge difference between changing a vote and flip-flopping Xite has voted two people today. Wraith and you. That's not flip-flopping

And don't change my words, the words you added in to scenario 2 is not accurate

Whether you agree with the reason or not, Xite gave a reason for the switch, which made your "scenarios" a misrepresentation of the truth, thus warranting my change.

[Gorrad]

Wow. Just...Wow.

Xite, I agree with you. Robb is pretty bleedin' scummy, and I would not hesitate to lynch him. However, I feel the same way about Wraith. I honestly have seen no compelling reason, from you or anyone else, to swap wagons. If you can convince me of your reasoning behind Xite being town without saying 'Read his Iso and see how it feels' for I have and it feels like obvious scum, I'm willing to swap.

[UltimaAvalon]

Oh ya, almost forgot

Dana, don't investigate based on suggestion, or we'll wind up with a repeat of Night 1

or worse

kthx

[Xite91]

Wow. Just...Wow.

Xite, I agree with you. Robb is pretty bleedin' scummy, and I would not hesitate to lynch him. However, I feel the same way about Wraith. I honestly have seen no compelling reason, from you or anyone else, to swap wagons. If you can convince me of your reasoning behind Xite being town without saying 'Read his Iso and see how it feels' for I have and it feels like obvious scum, I'm willing to swap.

K, will do tomorrow.
But it does have to do with the meta of his past town (all vanilla IIRC) and scum games both looking nothing like this.
I seriously feel he's just a pr and doesn't know how to play it, but eh. that's just speculation

Speaking of which, what does everyone feel Wraith claiming at this point would do for them?
Because depending on said claim, I might believe he's scummier or townier

Oh ya, almost forgot

Dana, don't investigate based on suggestion, or we'll wind up with a repeat of Night 1

or worse

kthx

QFT

[Gorrad]

He's already said he's not going to claim. I think now would be a good time to do so, if he was so inclined.

[singersigner]

I've seen all the WoTs, and I'll be commenting on them tomorrow.

I just realized I posted this on Wednesday, so 1) I suck for not following up on that, and 2) I underestimated the amount of time I would have from then through this weekend. I've been able to follow this game loosely, and will do my best to go back and re-read the 4-ish pages that have been fairly chunky with content since then. My plan is to post thoughts tomorrow night, but I warn you, I'm hypothesizing that it's mostly either going to be agreeing or disagreeing, since a lot's been laid down already lately.