Mafia 119: MURDER AT HOTEL DEATH(GAME OVER)

[vollkan]

Pretty much Vollkan, I've never found Vezo to be the strongest player, but I don't ever recall seeing him move his vote with such piss poor reasoning as that before.

what game have you guys played together?..link please. because I looked over his games, curious which one you were in with him.

Both are ongoing still, so can't actually discuss the games I'm afraid.

Using google, I find that the game where Vezok was scum is Square Enix Mafia III.

The rule against discussing ongoing games is just that - a rule against

discussing

ongoing games. It doesn't operate to prevent people from establishing parts of a player's meta based on events in an ongoing game; otherwise, you would have an absurd situation where a player could be basing their read on somebody off what they have seen in another (ongoing) game, but yet be unable to explain their read to anybody else.

Just use common sense (or, in Vezok's case, don't post or, preferably, replace out) and limit any comments or quoting from that game to discussion about Vezok's meta.

[PranaDevil]

As it all depends on the mods in question, I played it safe (for my sake and the mods in question). Some mods are harsher than others when it comes to mentioning ongoing games.

[horrordude0215]

Voll covered a lot of this already, but I'm gonna try and respond myself too.

I have reads.
I just don't post them day 1.

Noted.

Horrordude is scum guys.

I'm sorry, I thought you didn't post your reads on D1?

This does not invalidated his reads or reasons

Agreed, and I didn't say that it did, did I?

He is not doing anything here guys.

And what have YOU done lately?

This does not invalidated his reasons on you. Just because he doesn't post much doesn't mean his reasons are invalid. Your point is a logical fallacy, which I am too lazy to get my ass of this chair and look up its name in my logic book. However, if you do nothing, you are still doing nothing independently from what other people are doing.

Again, I didn't say it did. However, it seems like you agree with him that I haven't done anything in the game so far. I'd like you to explain please...

I'm gonna see if I can look at your meta really quickly before I decide if you're a VI or not, though.

That boarders on omgus as well as (sorta) this next post:

...Huh? Does someone else wanna cover that post or should I?

I don't like the tone of that above post. I want to let ESP post his post before I fully make up my mind on weather or not to vote for you. I have a little bit (lets say a big) gut-tell on you. As Well as other reasons, which I think, I have posted/commented.

I don't see how it's OMGUS, do you? Saying that you're going to look into them before you give a read on them isn't considered OMGUS, last I checked. In fact, I'd say that it's quite the opposite.

[Jack]

cooldog is still scum

[zwetschenwasser]

Jack is still playing into horrordude's case

[DemonHybrid]

A single non-descriptive sentence with no punctuation

[Jack]

What's horrordudes case?

[Looker]

Jack is still playing into horrordude's case

I'm sorry, Zwet, but you haven't made sense since you joined this game. Your line of thought is inconsistent, it's like you can't even remember what you yourself have said, i.e. HD's Freudian slip. You're also ambiguous, such as your "I don't buy the meta thing on vezok" post; and then you post one-liner sentiments that bear no relevance to the conversation. Come to think of it, you haven't tried to find scum all game. Unless you count your accusation that I was trying to get vollkan killed, you've had nothing but an RVS all game.

Wrong. I'm just saying that the likelyhood of ANYONE noticing it is extremely unlikely. I don't think anyone else had mentioned it or seen it before that.

Btw, if I could get everyone to comment on this, that'd be great! Did you notice the alleged soft-claim before Looker pointed it out?

Looker, you're placing the likelihood of him surviving the night on the fact that we
1) Have a doctor or something similar.
2) Have a doctor that would also assume that is a breadcrumb and would assume scum would see it as well.
3) Have a doctor that would be willing to waste a protection on Snake rather than on someone that they may see more pro-town or valuable for one reason or another.
4) Have a doctor that wouldn't try to WIFOM the scum out.

So basically what you'd be counting on would be that we have a doctor that would also assume that the fact Snake capitalized the letter W in watch in a meaningless post to be a breadcrumb and would assume scum would see it and assume the same as well, the doctor would be willing to waste a protection on Snake rather than on someone that they may see more pro-town or valuable for one reason or another, and wouldn't try to WIFOM the scum out. That seems pretty presumptious, don't you think?

I'm Pretty sure I already know the answer to this, but what's your read on Zwet now?

Espeonage's Post 65 is what made me point it out; I took his reaction as an incredulous acknowledgment of SnakePlissken's claim. It all comes down to a guessing game, which is better than giving scum an open Shot. And yes, Zwet is still town.

I skimmed, and i feel that CKD and Signer is town. Both players' posts and reactions does not feel as though it would be coming from scum. I also have several townreads in this game, but no solid scumreads from my skimming. will read closely soon.

unvote

by the way.

Is he still playing with us?

I have a game that has been very tense and has needed my undivided attention. It is night in that one now so i can catch up on my other games. Expect a post withing the day.

Do you still believe Zwet is the scum neighbor?

No. no.
Oh. I mean I don't give reads on all the players day 1.
I give reads on some players.
No. English is not my first language.

• Why would town need a mutual agreement of towniness?
  
• That'd be an interesting theory, if I were Doc and trying to draw all NKs to SnakePlissken so that I could protect him and HorrorDude was scum speculating setup to see if I was Doc so that he could NK me.

Right. Back in town and I will reread and post soon.

Riiight...

Which is not me, by the way; it's vollkan.

lol, are you trying to get

him

killed?

Not necessarily.

I am not sure what post you are talking (“this post”)about 208 or 209. I assume you are talking about my vote on you. Yes you did vote for no reason. In your view, why does one of the neighbors “have to die” and why does it have to be the any particular pair?

---

Where is the reason in that post/vote….there isn’t…so don’t act there was with this post.

And you are asking me if SS is the neighbor I want to lynch…at the time of this post, where the fuck was my vote?

---

how many people are in your mafia?

---

why the vote? I assume because you thought I was lurking?..did you check any of my other current games to see if that was true?

---

I didnt see the reasons the first time, please give me some bullets points.

• Because I don't like thinking about this and running the risk of you running a gambit. And the decision's not mine, it's yours.
  
• Don't know, didn't care. I can't wrap my head around the mystery of your claim, so I'm going to kill it.
  
• That's a waste of a question. Wasn't the initial inquiry how many were in your neighborhood?
  
• I didn't vote you for lurking; if I wanted to vote a lurker I'd have voted Pomegranate, NicolBolas, Nero Cain, etc.
  
• "Bullets points" won't help you.

[Looker]

Actually, now that I think of it, I'm being contradictory. If it was up to you, I'd be voting singersigner, so I guess it's not your decision after all.

[Looker]

[irrelevant spam post]

Check mate.

[zwetschenwasser]

It's ridiculous how much I'm convinced that looker is scum

[horrordude0215]

Espeonage's Post 65 is what made me point it out; I took his reaction as an incredulous acknowledgment of SnakePlissken's claim. It all comes down to a guessing game, which is better than giving scum an open Shot. And yes, Zwet is still town.

You're really stretching with the Esp post. In fact, I really don't see how you can even READ it as him recognizing the claim. What I see, and I'm assuming many others see as well (Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), is that Esp was commenting that Snake should read the game and realize we're out of RVS.

[*]That'd be an interesting theory, if I were Doc and trying to draw all NKs to SnakePlissken so that I could protect him and HorrorDude was scum speculating setup to see if I was Doc so that he could NK me.

Again, this is a HUGE stretch. All of a sudden I'm fishing because I'm not assuming we have a doc? (Which BTW I noticed you didn't comment on the last part of my 385, despite having quoted the entire post)

Which is not me, by the way; it's vollkan.

lol, are you trying to get

him

killed?

Not necessarily.

That's not a no...

"Bullets points" won't help you.

I think he meant that you should summarize your case.

[horrordude0215]

It's ridiculous how much I'm convinced that looker is scum

It's ridiculous how little you've actually contributed in this game and how many reads you've given without reasons.

[vollkan]

It's ridiculous how much I'm convinced that looker is scum

You haven't had a single post longer than a sentence so far this game. I know that others (ie Jack) are also playing with a similarly minimalist style, but this is getting, well, ridiculous. Why do you think looker is scum?

[Looker]

• If what you're saying is true, then I guess I was the only one to see it.
  
• I didn't say it was true; I just said it'd be an interesting theory. And are you referring to the Zwet read?
  
• I don't know vollkan's alignment.
  
• I'm not scum but that won't stop Zwet from saying that I am; he has nothing else to do.
  
• Espeonage and his entire wagon has disappeared.

[PranaDevil]

Looker is obv. town, he's pushing people, and pointing out things that need pointing out.

I'm also still more than happy with an Espy or Vezo lynch, but sweet christ this needs doing.

unvote; vote: Zwet

Effing do something, at least Jack (despite being useless) got discussion rolling early on, at least Vezo has been (somewhat) posting content, even if it has been about as useful as attempting to write a letter with a roll of bog paper, but so far what have you done? You've not boosted discussion, you've not scum hunted, you've just done nothing at all except call people scum without any reasoning. I'm not sure if you're scum, or just a VI, but you need to get contributing to the game now, not later.

[CooLDoG]

@horror... Have to post quick, but read my post and your post. Read the quotes, you did say in not these terms, that it does invalidate his reasons, thus you just lyed. Sorry I have to be so frank about but I have to run. I might not be able to post the rest of the day.

@volk, I think omgus does exist, and That is the correct name of the falacy, however I will explain more later. For now assume I don't agree with that ether.

@zwet, why is looker scum?

@CKD, A little more on the claim explenation plz plz lz...

[Espeonage]

@Looker: Yes

Someone ask me something simple about the game please.

[curiouskarmadog]

@ Looker, I ask for your case against me and all i get is this?...please explain your vote.

[*]I didn't vote you for lurking; if I wanted to vote a lurker I'd have voted Pomegranate, NicolBolas, Nero Cain, etc.
[*]"Bullets points" won't help you.[/list]

Also you didnt really answer my question, why did you vote me between your posts...the only thing I did in the stretch of time, was post that I would post in 48 hours or so...so what changed? you also didnt answer my question why does a neighbor "have to die"? And if a neighbor does have to die, why did you not consider the other pair of neighbors?

Looker is obv. town, he's pushing people, and pointing out things that need pointing out.

what in particular do you think looker is pointing out that "needs pointing out"...I dont see anything obv town about his play.

@CKD, A little more on the claim explenation plz plz lz...

Cooldog, can you please tell me what my claim is.....once you do that, please tell me what the mechanic is behind the claim (consider this a lesson in critical thinking, if you

really

want to know the answer,but are too fucking lazy to go back and actually read the post where I explain in detail why and when I claimed you have to play along).

[curiouskarmadog]

@Looker: Yes

Someone ask me something simple about the game please.

are you scum?

if not, do you have scum on your wagon, who?

[PranaDevil]

CKD, just look at his last long post.

Opens with a solid point on zwet, follows up with pointing out Espy had, indeed, pointed out Snake's claim well before he had (I didn't even put much thought into Looker pointing it out because Espy had already shown it quite clearly by then anyway, why is Looker getting grief for that and not Espy?)

Good first line in response to Vezo as well (I would say that though as it's something I agree with anyway as I said pretty much the same thing earlier), not sure what he means by the next line though.

You also asked leading questions of him (how many scum are in his mafia) that could only ever be answered with what amounts to no more than "How the hell do I know how many scum we have?" Because either he honestly doesn't know, or he would have to pretend he did anyway, it's a pointless question.

All in all, I see zero scum motivation for Looker's actions, he's been showing himself as obv. town so far and I'm not liking the pressure on him.

[Looker]

It's ridiculous how much I'm convinced that looker is scum

Why is that.

It's ridiculous how much I'm convinced that looker is scum

It's ridiculous how little you've actually contributed in this game and how many reads you've given without reasons.

PranaDevil noticed the crumb as well. I guess I wasn't the only one.

@Looker: Yes

Someone ask me something simple about the game please.

Why would CKD feel the need to claim when none of the other neighbors did? Wouldn't his role mechanic show up upon death?

@ Looker, I ask for your case against me and all i get is this?...please explain your vote.

---

Also you didnt really answer my question, why did you vote me between your posts...the only thing I did in the stretch of time, was post that I would post in 48 hours or so...so what changed? you also didnt answer my question why does a neighbor "have to die"? And if a neighbor does have to die, why did you not consider the other pair of neighbors?

• I switched my vote back to you because pressuring Stef didn't work.
  
• A neighbor has to die because one of you is scum.
  
• I
  am
  considering the other pair of neighbors. Very good.

[Looker]

Has anybody seen Pomegranate?

[curiouskarmadog]

You also asked leading questions of him (how many scum are in his mafia) that could only ever be answered with what amounts to no more than "How the hell do I know how many scum we have?" Because either he honestly doesn't know, or he would have to pretend he did anyway, it's a pointless question.

it was actually an answer to his question, and sort of a joke...sort of not.

he wanted to know why both vollkan and I have a mafia(scum) award....quick answer, because there are usually more than one scum in a mafia group, vollkan and I were scum together...long answer, my retort to him.

that being said,

I have no problem also voting looker.

I disagree, i dont feel like he is townish at all.

he votes me, when I ask for a case (some bullets points) he avoid answering like the plague...he knows his vote is bad and he is trying to backtrack...

you asked me looker, i think you should vote SS....ball in your court, good wagon, why or why not?

[zwetschenwasser]

Looker has done nothing but mainly active lurk disguised as solid scumhunting