NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[Wraith]

Wraith, if deadline approaches, will you self-hammer (or vote, if you don't have enough votes to be at L-1) if no one else does?

Might as well.

[Flameaxe]

Dear players,

Antihero in for ConfidAnon as soon as he makes his first post.

Your mod,
BBM

[Mysterio]

I'm still here, not flaking. Not much else to say except flinter's buddying of Wraith is becoming a bit too obvious for no one else to have mentioned it. Wickedest may have been on to something with his vote.

I haven't ISO'd anyone else nor do I intend to until I have more free time. Skimming the last page, Robb is under attack for playing like a VI. Gotta love how this game seems to be chalk full of VI's.

Will fully respond to whatever needs responding to tomorrow.

[Antihero]

Hey everyone,

55 pages!

I will read and comment on what sticks out to me (if anyone wants my opinion of something specific, you're going to have to ask).

-AH

[Xite91]

@Xite - you really should not be so focused on one person, I understand you think I am scummy but that doesn't mean you should give up on finding others and you have. and the way you are pushing a lynch on people you shoudl actually have more than just your hunches because those have been proved wrong with Frank

@ everyone you guys need to be open minded and go back and re-read the thread, take notes, and come up with REAL evidence as to why somebody is possibly scum.

Spaghetti throwing and WIFOM are not scum traits.

Oh, I'm plenty focused on others, and I definitely know who I'm going to go after come tomorrow, and probably the next day, but today it's you. Also, I have made some points against my other suspects, but I have done so with a little less... showiness? For some experienced players, I hope you understand why I have done this.

I have PLENTY of real evidence as to why you're scum, and I didn't even get into the meaty part of your posts. And by meaty, I mean posts RIDDEN with scumtells

WIFOM not so much, unless done in excess or practically any time anyone has said "if I was scum, why would I do this"
Spaghetti throwing is RARELY done by a townie because they are confident in their cases, scum do it so that they can become "confident" in their cases by being backed up by the town

I'm still here, not flaking. Not much else to say except flinter's buddying of Wraith is becoming a bit too obvious for no one else to have mentioned it. Wickedest may have been on to something with his vote.

I haven't ISO'd anyone else nor do I intend to until I have more free time. Skimming the last page, Robb is under attack for playing like a VI. Gotta love how this game seems to be chalk full of VI's.

Will fully respond to whatever needs responding to tomorrow.

Hey mystie, I've got a question.
How would you play if you weren't scum?

Hey everyone,

55 pages!

I will read and comment on what sticks out to me (if anyone wants my opinion of something specific, you're going to have to ask).

-AH

Welcome to the game! Don't be offended if I treat you a little... poorly

[Lowell]

Not kidding, I love 1347. I'm going to choose to believe him.

[Robbnva]

@Xite - you really should not be so focused on one person, I understand you think I am scummy but that doesn't mean you should give up on finding others and you have. and the way you are pushing a lynch on people you shoudl actually have more than just your hunches because those have been proved wrong with Frank

@ everyone you guys need to be open minded and go back and re-read the thread, take notes, and come up with REAL evidence as to why somebody is possibly scum.

Spaghetti throwing and WIFOM are not scum traits.

Oh, I'm plenty focused on others, and I definitely know who I'm going to go after come tomorrow, and probably the next day, but today it's you. Also, I have made some points against my other suspects, but I have done so with a little less... showiness? For some experienced players, I hope you understand why I have done this.

I have PLENTY of real evidence as to why you're scum, and I didn't even get into the meaty part of your posts. And by meaty, I mean posts RIDDEN with scumtells

WIFOM not so much, unless done in excess or practically any time anyone has said "if I was scum, why would I do this"
Spaghetti throwing is RARELY done by a townie because they are confident in their cases, scum do it so that they can become "confident" in their cases by being backed up by the town

I'm still here, not flaking. Not much else to say except flinter's buddying of Wraith is becoming a bit too obvious for no one else to have mentioned it. Wickedest may have been on to something with his vote.

I haven't ISO'd anyone else nor do I intend to until I have more free time. Skimming the last page, Robb is under attack for playing like a VI. Gotta love how this game seems to be chalk full of VI's.

Will fully respond to whatever needs responding to tomorrow.

Hey mystie, I've got a question.
How would you play if you weren't scum?

Hey everyone,

55 pages!

I will read and comment on what sticks out to me (if anyone wants my opinion of something specific, you're going to have to ask).

-AH

Welcome to the game! Don't be offended if I treat you a little... poorly

so when I eventually die and flip town, I hope people will come back to this post and realize you should not be trusted for you reads on scum. If you go and look at other games I have finished on this site (or games I have been lynched from) when I have been town, you will see I basically do the same things I am doing here. What you call "scum tells" is sadly the way I play. My strategy is to I guess as you say it "throw spaghetti" to get people engaged into the game and talk more. People who lurk and don't post much ruin the game, especially when it is late in the game and they have a power role and have not been paying attention.

I HATE lurkers more than anything so yeah, I throw a little spaghetti their way to get them talking.

look I mentioned Mysterio in my post earlier and look who showed up posting, and shockingly he mentions me in his post. The one who has not yet shown up is Poorchaz who I honestly think is the lynch for today.

ad if you were really looking at other people why not go back and look at the comments I made about him and see if they make sense to you?

and @UA - first off the use of WIFOM is such a lame argument because basically people try and defend themselves and they are automatically accused of WIFOM

and spaghetti throwing, I just explained it earlier in the post, this is my style of play. I go after the people I think are suspiciou, I post things they say and call them out on it, in the beginning everyone is basically "spaghetti throwing" When a townie is lynched day one, all the comments made about that person being scum IMO was spaghetti thrown on the wall and it stuck enough to get them lynched.

now I may not know Xite's definition of spaghetti throwing but to me it is making accusations towards people with no real evidence OR pointing out things people say and calling them scum tells.

Xite has done this with frank, wraith, and myself. Frank was town so his spaghetti throwing sucks there, Wraith claims nilla townie which we won't know till he eventually dies, I am making a full 100% declaration that I am town(because I am) so the stuff Xite is throwing my way is spaghetti

so if you think Spaghetti throwing is scum, there are people in this game throwing more than me.

now I am not going after Xite cause right now I don't think he is the play. I think Wraith may be scum but he claimed VT, this is not Day 1 so I am less likely to lynch a VT if there are better candidates available and I believe we have 2 right now (Mysterio and Poorchaz)

I have done plenty of scum hunting this game, my reasoning of why I think people are scum may not be agreed upon by some of you, I have done more to try and scum hunt than some of these other players. if scum hunting and trying to get people to talk more is scummy, again I apologize but that is how I play.

[Shanba]

At deadline, my vote preference for the three biggest wagons is as follows: Prozac, Mysterio, Wraith. I will switch to Mysterio to achieve a lynch if Prozac looks like he's getting away - which is incredibly frustrating to me, actually. I know he's had some V/LA but he's practically skipped this entire game day now. Heck, someone (I think it was xite?) said that they needed more posts to discern his alignment which is cool and all, but kinda difficult if he's not going to post anyway.

Anyway, as I was saying, I will switch to Mysterio unless the Prozac wagon starts growing, and if even that lynch looks unlikely then I'll have to bite the bullet and vote Wraith - I will be on near deadline time to be sure that a lynch happens. I'd prefer it not get to that stage, but we'll see.

[Porochaz]

Reread day 2 up to page 30: @.@ is looking town. ConfidAnon looks like he's speaking out of his ass, the Wraith wagon still sucks. Im unsure why I dislike Xite, might have to read through in iso once Im done and Im currently okay with dana.

[Robbnva]

First, Poro is probably still town if you flip scum, but nice try.
Second, Really? You're going to say that him not denying a rather silly claim means that he's actually guilty of said claim? Wow.
Third, me expressing my intent to hammer based on the fact that I probably won't get my desired lynch today and him claiming VT ruined part of my reason for clearing him is not scummy as all fucking hell.
Fourth, if you think I'm scum, get me lynched, that's how the game goes, but instead you go after poro (someone that's getting a good amount of attention, no less) ignore mystie (the other person getting attention) and don't vote the person you think is scum. That, sir, is scummy as all hell.
Fifth, just want to clarify that I feel I'll be the NK tonight, especially if everyone's saying "investigate xite, make sure we're not following scum." If you think I'm scum, vote me, make a case on me, and maybe we'll have a good argument going, but don't direct the cop to investigate me so that you know whether or not I'm town, that's just opening you up for bad things. Also, lets try not to do this, k?

1. Faulty logic is faulty - the "if you are this than he is this" has failed many times in almost every game, also I won't flip scum so even more faulty
2. I have seen it time and time again, mafia is accused and they don't deny, they try and discredit the info or deflect away from it. So I'm sticking my MY experiences
3. You should be making new cases or commenting on other bandwagons already formed and not broadcase "oh I'll hammer him if I have to" seems scummy to me
4. This close to deadline it isn't worth starting yet another bandwagon, I think you play scummy but would not suprise me if you are just a VI this game or your reads are just wrong. Also I already voted mysterio after your gambit(scummy) so going to him is no biggie for me either, I feel with that question asking if Kise did any reamsearch (code for do you have proof?) that makes him more suspicious to me
5. So if you are NK can we assume you are scum? (btw I have seen more mafia make that statement than I have seen town)
6. It was not me who told the cop who to investigate, it was singer, I just agreed with her. I don't care who the cop investigates

[Robbnva]

should be if you are NOT NK'd

hate typing on my iPhone

[Wickedestjr]

I like this point from Wraith:

In his Post 17, first one for Day 2, he immeidately jumps on the closest, most popular wagon, me, for "anti-town actions" that he fails to explain. Let's go back a day and remember that he originally voted dana for "failing to explain" his own reasons for suspecting Furcolow.

Wraith, I didn't really see nhammen as much of a DSP. He seemed to fly under the radar and follow everybody else.


This day has lasted way too long. Having such a long day is kind of unhealthy as players begin to get bored (that includes me). I don't seem to be convincing anybody else that flinter is scum right now so I guess I'll try and convince you guys tomorrow. For now, it is between Mysterio and Porochaz. I am more convinced that Mysterio is scum and he has a larger bandwagon than Porochaz, so...

Unvote. Vote: Mysterio.

Sorry for not posting yesterday. I've been very busy the past two days. Hopefully I'll actually be done catching up by at least Thursday or Friday.

[Lowell]

At deadline, my vote preference for the three biggest wagons is as follows: Prozac, Mysterio, Wraith. I will switch to Mysterio to achieve a lynch if Prozac looks like he's getting away - which is incredibly frustrating to me, actually. I know he's had some V/LA but he's practically skipped this entire game day now. Heck, someone (I think it was xite?) said that they needed more posts to discern his alignment which is cool and all, but kinda difficult if he's not going to post anyway.

Anyway, as I was saying, I will switch to Mysterio unless the Prozac wagon starts growing, and if even that lynch looks unlikely then I'll have to bite the bullet and vote Wraith - I will be on near deadline time to be sure that a lynch happens. I'd prefer it not get to that stage, but we'll see.

Lowell endorses this post.

Prozac is useless. LOWELL-useless (snap!). For whatever reason early on some people thought he was town, and he's coasted since. He needs death.

[Robbnva]

@xrec - that game is over now

@wicked - I was reading back some if your posts and you basicalled my theory of how mafia plays "words without saying anything" or something along those lines. I said mafia likes to lay low and will usually avoid a day 1 lynch of a townie.

Now you aren't as bad as others but I would call your contribution to this game low to mid-range, blending in without being overly vocal, and you have basically avoided the bandwagons of Dana(you had voted early on but unvoted when it seemed to be going somewhere), you avoided frank's, you avoided wraith's. But now you vote mysterio cause you think he is more scummy and he has the larger wagon. I wonder what you would have done if there was no deadline in place?

[Robbnva]

Edit after post :should say " basically called "

[Wickedestjr]

Xite, do you have any completed scum games? Can I have a link if so?

[UltimaAvalon]

and @UA - first off the use of WIFOM is such a lame argument because basically people try and defend themselves and they are automatically accused of WIFOM

if you think Spaghetti throwing is scum, there are people in this game throwing more than me.

You'll notice I neither accused you of these actions, nor called you scummy in my post. I did ask, if they aren't Scum traits, how should Town utilize them?

[My Milked Eek]

End of day one reads:
scum (in order of likeliness):
- porochaz
reactive play, overreacts to dp's claim, hypocritical by pushing bunnylover, I somehow noted 436 as an important iso post (I think it had to do with the reactive play first surfacing then)
- xite
at first this was a gut read (noted him down as "to be iso'd"), sets lynch for next day and as such avoids giving adjusted opinions on flips even though from xite's perspective I cannot see how he could think frank and wraith could be scum together, lame singersinger-dp discussion, endless theorydiscussions
- bunnylover
I wrote down "does not contribute" from early game, and then "fucking 564" if anyone was being opportunistic on the Frank wagon, it was BL, note the subtle use of the newbie card as well (might be incidental, but regardless of that, opportunistic vote)
- robb
577, 507, 435, 478 were post numbers I noted down, "reactive play", "uhh where did you come from" (507)

As noted as "to be iso'd" on my sheet of paper: xite, porochaz and orochi (why orochi? beats me, his one post was odd enough to warrant a reread I guess)

All the others had a lot of "who?" next to their names aside from a few good town reads.


As for Wraith, I'll have to read confidanon's d1 case again to see if it holds any water. But without reading it and without reading D2 I cannot bring myself to lynch wraith.

On to day 2.

[Robbnva]

and @UA - first off the use of WIFOM is such a lame argument because basically people try and defend themselves and they are automatically accused of WIFOM

if you think Spaghetti throwing is scum, there are people in this game throwing more than me.

You'll notice I neither accused you of these actions, nor called you scummy in my post. I did ask, if they aren't Scum traits, how should Town utilize them?

I don't think they are a tool to help anyone out, I just think they are things that people say and people focus on them so much.

ok I think I misunderstood what WIFOM and some people in here have also been wrong. I have seen a ton of "if player A is scum than player B is scum" Or If player flips scum than I can't possibly be town cause he was accusing me"

according to the wiki that is not true WIFOM

true WIFOM is during the day player A is accusing player B(the scum) of being scum, at night player B kills player C, leaving player A alive. Player B would say "I am not scum because if I was scum I would have killed player A"

and in that case than yeah that is scum.

but in my original example of the if/than statements, those I don't consider to be WIFOM and I actually consider them to be null because I have seen both town and scum use those before, and people including Xite has used the if/than in this game.

[Xite91]

A) so when I eventually die and flip town, I hope people will come back to this post and realize you should not be trusted for you reads on scum. If you go and look at other games I have finished on this site (or games I have been lynched from) when I have been town, you will see I basically do the same things I am doing here. What you call "scum tells" is sadly the way I play. My strategy is to I guess as you say it "throw spaghetti" to get people engaged into the game and talk more. People who lurk and don't post much ruin the game, especially when it is late in the game and they have a power role and have not been paying attention.

I HATE lurkers more than anything so yeah,

I throw a little spaghetti their way to get them talking.

B) look I mentioned Mysterio in my post earlier and look who showed up posting, and shockingly he mentions me in his post. The one who has not yet shown up is Poorchaz who I honestly think is the lynch for today.

C) ad if you were really looking at other people why not go back and look at the comments I made about him and see if they make sense to you?

D) and @UA - first off the use of WIFOM is such a lame argument because basically people try and defend themselves and they are automatically accused of WIFOM

and spaghetti throwing, I just explained it earlier in the post, this is my style of play. I go after the people I think are suspiciou, I post things they say and call them out on it, in the beginning everyone is basically "spaghetti throwing" When a townie is lynched day one, all the comments made about that person being scum IMO was spaghetti thrown on the wall and it stuck enough to get them lynched.

now I may not know Xite's definition of spaghetti throwing but to me

it is making accusations towards people with no real evidence OR pointing out things people say and calling them scum tells.

Xite has done this with frank, wraith, and myself. Frank was town so his spaghetti throwing sucks there, Wraith claims nilla townie which we won't know till he eventually dies, I am making a full 100% declaration that I am town(because I am) so the stuff Xite is throwing my way is spaghetti

so if you think Spaghetti throwing is scum, there are people in this game throwing more than me.

now I am not going after Xite cause right now I don't think he is the play. I think Wraith may be scum but he claimed VT, this is not Day 1 so I am less likely to lynch a VT if there are better candidates available and I believe we have 2 right now (Mysterio and Poorchaz)

I have done plenty of scum hunting this game, my reasoning of why I think people are scum may not be agreed upon by some of you, I have done more to try and scum hunt than some of these other players. if scum hunting and trying to get people to talk more is scummy, again I apologize but that is how I play.

A) Self-meta is rarely useful (and a lot of times ignored). Try a new strategy
Okay, so all the striked-out words are where you're just plain wrong and need to read.

Definition of Spaghetti Throwing: Where a player will throw out points about what people did but not say if or why it is scummy or townie. Most of the time, these people will do so to a great number of players, if not all of them.

This is scummy because it's an easy way to sit on the fence about anything. When someone gets attacked based off of those things that the spaghetti-thrower threw out there, the spaghetti-thrower will ride off of that attack, saying that they pointed out the same thing. If he gets attacked for attacking a townie that has flipped, then he will be able to say that, no he did not attack that townie, and will ask people to point out where he did, and they will not be able to.

Get it? I even bolded it and made it different colors to make sure that you could see it.

B) Or he was just finally able to get to this game? IIRC he WAS V/LA. Also, maybe he mentioned you because you're in the spotlight? Yeah, that could be something.

C) If you were really reading the thread, you might see that I did comment on your godfather idea (which I think I said was REALLY stupid)

D) Do... do you

know

what WIFOM is?

Okay, how many games have you played? And please be honest. This is actually an important question.

1. Faulty logic is faulty - the "if you are this than he is this" has failed many times in almost every game, also I won't flip scum so even more faulty
2. I have seen it time and time again, mafia is accused and they don't deny, they try and discredit the info or deflect away from it. So I'm sticking my MY experiences
3. You should be making new cases or commenting on other bandwagons already formed and not broadcase "oh I'll hammer him if I have to" seems scummy to me
4. This close to deadline it isn't worth starting yet another bandwagon, I think you play scummy but would not suprise me if you are just a VI this game or your reads are just wrong. Also I already voted mysterio after your gambit(scummy) so going to him is no biggie for me either, I feel with that question asking if Kise did any reamsearch (code for do you have proof?) that makes him more suspicious to me
5. So if you are NK can we assume you are scum? (btw I have seen more mafia make that statement than I have seen town)
6. It was not me who told the cop who to investigate, it was singer, I just agreed with her. I don't care who the cop investigates

1) Uhm... no? If you look at the way you did things, I have my reasons for thinking those things, and even if you were town, a flip from you would actually help me greatly at this point. not to mention, it has worked a great number of times from when I've seen it
2) And I've seen town react the SAME EXACT WAY to such a ridiculous claim. Hell, I would chuckle a bit and say the same thing.
3) So, I should be looking anywhere but at you? Lol
4) Anything's possible if you try... but wait, you have to convince other people, and scumhunting is just so hard for scum to do isn't it?
5) From your next post, you say you mean aren't, and no, but I was saying not to direct the cop. Also, I was saying that if he wants, then fine, investigate me, but don't make it public, because then bad things will happen.
6) I was saying that to the whole playerset.

Xite, do you have any completed scum games? Can I have a link if so?

Newbie game FTW
Emotional Breakdown
As you can see, I'm a very angry scum player

[Xite91]

Wraith, if deadline approaches, will you self-hammer (or vote, if you don't have enough votes to be at L-1) if no one else does?

Might as well.

Strangely enough, this makes me less inclined to believe that Wraith is scum. All the more reason to get moar votes on Robbie plox

[Robbnva]

End of day one reads:
scum (in order of likeliness):
- porochaz
reactive play, overreacts to dp's claim, hypocritical by pushing bunnylover, I somehow noted 436 as an important iso post (I think it had to do with the reactive play first surfacing then)
- xite
at first this was a gut read (noted him down as "to be iso'd"), sets lynch for next day and as such avoids giving adjusted opinions on flips even though from xite's perspective I cannot see how he could think frank and wraith could be scum together, lame singersinger-dp discussion, endless theorydiscussions
- bunnylover
I wrote down "does not contribute" from early game, and then "fucking 564" if anyone was being opportunistic on the Frank wagon, it was BL, note the subtle use of the newbie card as well (might be incidental, but regardless of that, opportunistic vote)
- robb
577, 507, 435, 478 were post numbers I noted down, "reactive play", "uhh where did you come from" (507)

As noted as "to be iso'd" on my sheet of paper: xite, porochaz and orochi (why orochi? beats me, his one post was odd enough to warrant a reread I guess)

All the others had a lot of "who?" next to their names aside from a few good town reads.


As for Wraith, I'll have to read confidanon's d1 case again to see if it holds any water. But without reading it and without reading D2 I cannot bring myself to lynch wraith.

On to day 2.

I stand by everything I said in my post 435 - my original post was based on him being so out in front, I still stand by the fact that mafia wants to lay low but than when he did not want to believe a cop claim, that changed my mind. also my statement about if he is town he has failed us also is true. he did not play smart and got town to even turn on him.

my post 478 was responding to shanba's post about why nobody commented on his post, so that was me commenting on his post. I still agree with my read there also

if you really find issues with 507 you need to re-examine yourself, there is NEVER a reason to lynch a claimed cop on day 1 and anyone considering it should be treated as scum. I could not EVER imagine where lynching a claimed cop on day 1 is a good idea

my 577 is also acurate and I am not the only one who thinks so. after you out a power role you lynch the claimed VT, ESPECIALLY if he is acting scummy and ESPECIALLY if he wants to lych the claim cop.

I stand by all of my statements and I stand by the fact that I do not think they are scummy

[My Milked Eek]

I'm not even sure why I listed all those numbers behind your name...

Disregard that 507 comment. And all the other numbered comments about you.

[Robbnva]

I'm not even sure why I listed all those numbers behind your name...

Disregard that 507 comment. And all the other numbered comments about you.

Ok

[danakillsu]

Sigh...
I can't believe you haven't lynched Wraith yet and are forcing me to post a fluff post like this just to keep from getting prodded. Just watch the deadline, okay?