Newbie 1002: Nowherevilletownplace (D3)

[Furcolow]

Vote Count:
L-3 Furcolow - 2 - Zenken, FrozenAeon
L-4 el simo - 1 - ooBAZZoo
L-4 Zenken - 1 - el simo
L-4 Kanashimi - 1 - Furcolow

Not Voting:
MightyDarkZero
Kanashimi
Maddie
lobstermania

9 alive, 5 to lynch

I am a claimed cop, why am I the top wagon? 0 sense

[el simo]

We don't need to do RVS we have plenty of information.

[Furcolow]

in order to lynch we need a majority... ok... i'm not worried anymore. Problem is, if the 2 people voting me are town, and no other town will shift towards them letting scum both vote me and hit 5 votes, and the townies wont come off, it will be impossible to lynch scum unless we get every single other vote on someone

my point of this post: zenken, frozenaeon need to unvote me if they're town, and we need a wagon very soon. this thread has been very, very slow so we need to pick a person to wagon.

I know you want to wagon zenken, el simo, and I am fine with that, but we need 5 people

for the noobs who don't read

>>>WE NEED 5 TOWN TO WAGON SOMEONE OR THERE WONT BE A LYNCH<<<

[Furcolow]

el simo, if you and i are both town, wouldnt lobstermania have to be scum? what is the policy on SEs and ICs and someone being scum? Can they all be town? That seems like it wouldn't be fair.

[el simo]

Yes they can. The set up and player roles are randomly generated.

[Furcolow]

sigh

[sykedoc]

Apologies. Had a major fuckup and couldn't get the VC out when promised. Things have returned to normal and should be speeding along.

[Furcolow]

It's all good, thanks for hosting!

[ooBAZZoo]

And here I thought Furcolow couldn't be any more ridiculous than he already was. Apparently, I was wrong.

I whole-heartedly agree.

(initiate rant)

@Furcolow

-
Mafia games are about using logic and reasoning. Why would you play such a game and then go ahead and display NO ounce of logical thought whatsoever.
The idea of a random lynch is absurd!
I admit we don't have much to go on, but doing a thorough read of everyone's play, evaluating their motives, and coming to a conclusion as to who you find scummiest is INFINITELY BETTER than a random vote.

Also, you wrote:

for the noobs who don't read...

But according to the following, you're the player who doesn't read. You asked:

el simo, if you and i are both town, wouldnt lobstermania have to be scum? what is the policy on SEs and ICs and someone being scum? Can they all be town? That seems like it wouldn't be fair.

Yet its clearly in the rules that the setup is randomly chosen, and incase you missed that, I'd even written this earlier when Zenken made the same mistake:

Nobody is ‘made’ mafia, and neither the mod (or anyone else) chooses what role each person gets. All roles are distributed totally randomly, irrespective of a players experience, etc.

Why is it that, despite being an SE, you don't know this and I do?
and why is it that you haven't read through our thread properly?

Whilst I don't necessarily agree with a policy lynch, I'd be infinitely happier if you were replaced for someone who could be bothered to put time into reading the rules, reading what other people have said, and formulating their own arguments regarding who may be scum. All we have with you is OMGUS votes, random votes, and you blabbering on about being an unconfirmed cop.

(end rant)

[ooBAZZoo]

@el simo (in response to ISO #52 & #53)-
When I stated Furcolow as an example I was merely showing how each player must be read differently depending on context. His recent play is a prime example: If a player like you or Maddie had suggested a random vote we'd read the situation in a totally different way. I maintain my view that every read is (/must be) relative. In your case, a read

must

take into account your experience. I believe by reading everybody by a standard is how newb-town players get mislynched, and experienced-scum slip by unnoticed.
This being said, I found you scummy for putting pressure on lynch targets and backing off when they didn't appear as likely, which I'd read as scummy regardless of your experience.
I admit I may be wrong about you, but voting you based on these suspicions is far better than a random vote based on luck.

[Furcolow]

Well, consider that I've moderated, and know many moderators who pick who is what role........ yeah. But, totally, bro, you have such good points. That wasn't a scummy rant at all.

[Furcolow]

this is really the problem with this game. You are voting someone on little to no case because all of the newbs in this game, or the non SEs or ICs are largely not voting/voting for no reason/voting votes that no person who is not a newb would ever vote.

Am I any better? Somewhat. I've been playing 7 months, I know some taboo issues, such as YOU DO NOT VOTE A CLAIMED COP DAY 1.
I would also be wagoning someone regardless of my alignment by now if I wasn't stuck in the situation I'm in. I am an outed cop on day 1. This sucks very, very badly for me, so there is NO WAY I would ever replace out and have someone stuck in this sucky situation.

If you all aren't going to pick a lynch, I'm going to pick one for you. We need to lynch someone as a town, and we have to hit majority.

[Furcolow]

@bazz
also, I have offered MANY suggestions on how to lynch in a fair manner, I have done a votecount, and I have been the most active poster in the thread. There is no way you will get 5 votes on a claimed cop in an f11 on day 1 even in a newbie game, so don't even think about it.

furthermore, onto your "luck", i call bullshit.
A random lynch for us from my perspective is 1/8 which is 12.5% which is not "luck". It happens 1/8 randomly. That is probability.

I am interested in hearing from the other people in this game, specifically the ones not voting, and want to hear who they are willing to reach majority on. I will be killed in the night phase if there is no medic, so I'd like to help while I can.

[el simo]

I'm sort of fed up with this game so I'm dropping the polite IC tone and just playing my usual aggressive Rambo game. You don't seem to get my point when I try teach it across, so instead I'll just jam it down your throats until you agree or you lynch me.

You claim, "putting pressure on lynch TARGETS and backing off when THEY didn't appear as likely."

I did this once and not for the reasons you claim either. Using those plurals IS scummy. You are implying that I am more guilty of what you claim then I am. You are trying to make it seem as if there is more to your case then there really is. A townie wouldn't exaggerate their own case to make us believe it. What you are doing makes no sense as a pro town player. This goes for MDZ as well, appealing to my authority to try add more to his case then is really there. See my comment on the last page about it for a reference.

The reason I focused so much on the experience part of it is because you are a) wrong and b) being inconsistent with your own logic.

You want to read us differenct based on our experience - our ability, our skill level, how good we are at this game. Furcolow is probably the worst player in this game right now, yet you choose to read him differently from Zenken. You claim that Zenken is a noob and that is why he made scummy posts, but you say nothing about Furcolow and you in fact call him scummy numerous times. He tried to make a case based on someone's spelling and grammar. Why is this scummier than Zenkens policy lynch? Why is Zenkens policy lynch a noob townie but Furcolows spelling and grammar noob scum? Experience is what we call a null tell. It is not indicative of ones role. Noob scum and noob town will make the same mistake as an experienced town and an experienced scum will make the same mistake. You can't read people differently because of this. Reading someone based on their experience and then finding them scummy because of them is effectively the same thing as a policy lynch, just worded nicer.

Your case one me consisted of three things: I haven't done as much scum hunting as your ideal IC has (despite doing more than anybody else has in this game), backtracking on Furcolow, and pushing a lynch on someone who you think is a newb townie.

Given the reality of your "experience reads" the only thing you have on me out of those three is the backtracking, which is based entirely on when you think Furcolow was at the height of suspicion.

I don't mind people pushing my lynch, provided they have sound reasoning to do so. You how ever took something out of nothing and tried to make it appear more than it really is with all these plurals and what not. What ever happened to your read on Kanashimi?

[Furcolow]

I am the best player in the game. Who are you kidding?

[el simo]

I am the best player in the game. Who are you kidding?

[ooBAZZoo]

@el simo - Wow, I'm starting to see why you've never been lynched.

I think we'd be going round in circles if I responded to every issue you've raised. At the moment You, Furcolow and myself are dominating the thread, and there are six other players who need to sort out their reads before the deadline. Just a few points though:

"putting pressure on lynch TARGETS and backing off when THEY didn't appear as likely." I was referring to Furcolow

and

Zenken (hence the pluralisation), but I admit the use of "they" is misleading. In hindsight you still maintain suspicion of Zenken so it should read:
"putting pressure on lynch targets and backing off when one didn't appear as likely"
apologies for this.

The issue regarding experience has got out of hand I think. Whilst its clear you don't agree with it, I stand by what I said about every read being relative. I agree with you when you say, "Experience is what we call a null tell. It is not indicative of ones role", and I want to make it clear I am not voting you because of your experience. I merely acknowledge this as one of the many, many factors that must be considered before evaluating your posts.

I've stated many times that this is not a full-proof case against you. All I've done is re-read everyone's play, and voted for the player I find scummiest. Unfortunately this time it was you. I stand by my reasons and my logic. I never assumed you'd agree with my vote, but wasn't expecting quite such a defensive post.

---

Regarding my other reads, I've been busy lately, and when I have had some time to get on this thread I've made responding to the recent posts a priority. Apologies. I've re-read kanashimi, haven't been able to set my thoughts down yet, but will say that I'd definitely vote him if required to make a majority before the deadline.

[el simo]

@el simo - Wow, I'm starting to see why you've never been lynched.

I think we'd be going round in circles if I responded to every issue you've raised. At the moment You, Furcolow and myself are dominating the thread, and there are six other players who need to sort out their reads before the deadline. Just a few points though:

"putting pressure on lynch TARGETS and backing off when THEY didn't appear as likely." I was referring to Furcolow

and

Zenken (hence the pluralisation), but I admit the use of "they" is misleading. In hindsight you still maintain suspicion of Zenken so it should read:
"putting pressure on lynch targets and backing off when one didn't appear as likely"
apologies for this.

The issue becomes, is putting pressure on targets scummy?

The issue regarding experience has got out of hand I think. Whilst its clear you don't agree with it, I stand by what I said about every read being relative. I agree with you when you say, "Experience is what we call a null tell. It is not indicative of ones role", and I want to make it clear I am not voting you because of your experience. I merely acknowledge this as one of the many, many factors that must be considered before evaluating your posts.

I've stated many times that this is not a full-proof case against you. All I've done is re-read everyone's play, and voted for the player I find scummiest. Unfortunately this time it was you. I stand by my reasons and my logic. I never assumed you'd agree with my vote, but wasn't expecting quite such a defensive post.

Well I have to convince you you're wrong some how.

[Furcolow]

putting pressure on me, while not be scummy, hurt the fucking town
bazz, do you believe i am a cop, yes or no?

[FrozenAeon]

I vote we re-initiate the RVS

I am sort of against re-initiating the RVS, but it's an idea. lol

This makes no sense.

I'm sorry if it looks like I'm being really inactive. I really don't know what else to do.

[el simo]

Easy. What are your thoughts on Zenken? What do you think of Bazz and MDZ's case on me? What do you think about the Furcolow wagon? This has been the longest 1st day I've had in a game for a long time. We have talked loads, you have talked none. There is almost an endlist list of things for you to discuss. Go.

[Furcolow]

15 pages isn't a lot. Half the game are lurking. Let's lynch a lurker, and make people post more.
I am a cop, I am going to die tonight unless there is a doctor in the house.

[el simo]

I've finished a game in 15 pages. It's more than enough.

[Zenken]

I'm sort of fed up with this game so I'm dropping the polite IC tone and just playing my usual aggressive Rambo game.

Hehe, it's horrible in the back of my mind, I find this Statement alone enough to vote you. Rambo is probably more worse then Master chief from Halo, and both are incredibly bad characters. Who without the help of technology would've died when they were pre-teens because then thought they could jump over a speeding car, because they their their that awesome.

I'm not because I can't hold your preference in fictional characters into a game where I'm trying to find out if you're part of a drug ring.

Also, about what Furcolow said about it being Taboo to lynch a claimed cop on D1.

I find that equal to be just as Taboo to talk about a king who's raised Taxes so not even the middle-class citizens can pay them so he can have more money.

And, for the record. I don't really care if you claimed cop. My vote isn't based off that, in fact, it called off my vote for a time. But at this point. getting closer to our deadline, and spending a very long day over some very ridiculous subject. I've come to believe you as a liar. Also, no one asked you to be the most active player in this game. you just are.

[el simo]

Zenken, I was considering registering as Ramboa originally. Decided to go with el simo instead.