Mafia 119: MURDER AT HOTEL DEATH(GAME OVER)

[vollkan]

Hey.
Let's lynch CoolDog.
He is probably scum.

unvote vote cooldog.

[PranaDevil]

Ugh..accidentally hit submit instead of preview

Fair enough, that wasn't a great thing, but Espy had already done so, quite blatantly (I will admit I ignored it in the hope others had, but I feel the need to back up Looker in that he wasn't the one and only person, nor the first, to point it out). But what about the fact you're ignoring that Looker has made good points towards Zwet, Vezo and Espy? Do they all get ignored for what I can make out as one bad post in a sea of scum hunting?

This is just wrong. Espy's wasn't that obvious, let alone to the extent that Looker could reasonably justify not pointing it out (

Looker+4

, by the way)

Please explain the scum motivation for Looker pointing out so blatantly please.

"Hey guise a watcher!" whilst also maintaining plausible deniability

Lack of logical conclusion as to why he would willingly point it out as scum.

What is the actual motivation for it? Why would he, (or anyone for that matter) feel pointing that out to be beneficial to their win condition if they were scum? (Outside of being an idiot I mean)

[vollkan]

Ugh..accidentally hit submit instead of preview

Fair enough, that wasn't a great thing, but Espy had already done so, quite blatantly (I will admit I ignored it in the hope others had, but I feel the need to back up Looker in that he wasn't the one and only person, nor the first, to point it out). But what about the fact you're ignoring that Looker has made good points towards Zwet, Vezo and Espy? Do they all get ignored for what I can make out as one bad post in a sea of scum hunting?

This is just wrong. Espy's wasn't that obvious, let alone to the extent that Looker could reasonably justify not pointing it out (

Looker+4

, by the way)

Please explain the scum motivation for Looker pointing out so blatantly please.

"Hey guise a watcher!" whilst also maintaining plausible deniability

Lack of logical conclusion as to why he would willingly point it out as scum.

What is the actual motivation for it? Why would he, (or anyone for that matter) feel pointing that out to be beneficial to their win condition if they were scum? (Outside of being an idiot I mean)

I'm going to have to get theory-heavy here...

No matter which alignment he is, his actions were "anti-[that alignment]". As in, it was a stupid thing for him to do either way. However, "stupid" is entirely different from "insane" (ie Vezok). By that, I mean that though his play in this particular instant was objectively bad (ie no matter his alignment), he is also a player whom we can be relatively confident was actually thinking (cf Vezok), albeit imperfectly.

Now, a townie has some immediate and fairly large barriers against outing somebody's softclaim. For starters, it isn't something that vanilla townies have any reason to do at all. I may be wrong here, but I suspect that there are very few people on this site who actively look for breadcrumbs as vanilla townies. Now, I am also not suggesting here that Looker's actions indicate that he is a town PR that would have a reason to look for breadcrumbs (eg. a doctor trying to find a cop to protect). To the contrary, any person who was in that sort of frame of mind (eg. "I want to find a cop to protect") is actually far less likely to stupidly draw attention to the breadcrumb, because it undermines the very reason why they went looking for the breadcrumb in the first place.

On the flipside, scum always has good reason to look for breadcrumbs. Scum also always has

a

reason to want to draw attention to those breadcrumbs - in case they get lynched. There is also, I think, a good chance of something psychological coming into play that may make scum more enthusiastic than they rationally should be to out a breadcrumb (ie. "OMG I found a power role!"). At that same time, it is also unlikely that any scum player will be lynched for outing a breadcrumb, precisely because it is more likely to be seen a stupidtell than a scumtell. It's not an action that is manifestly 'scummy' (again, as opposed to stupid) unless you do what I have just done and compare the town and scum mindsets surrounding this issue.

[PranaDevil]

I think it's a stretch Vollkan, that from what I can tell is the entire case on Looker, and I don't like it. If there was a bigger case on him and that was just a small part of it then I'd go for it. But as it stands it's weak, and the case on him is weak for it.

More Espy votes please though.

[vollkan]

Just realised I have the rules here confused with another game I am in that is also approaching deadline; I thought this game was plurality lynch, not majority lynch. Since I think both my 58-ers are unlikely to be lynched, and there is a massive cloud of WTF hanging over my Vezok read, I will

Unvote, Vote: Espeonage

[zwetschenwasser]

Espy doesn't make sense to me

[DemonHybrid]

Hey.
Let's lynch CoolDog.
He is probably scum.
unvote vote cooldog.

Wow, look at your reasoning. You're just a straight shooter, unstoppable.

*sigh* You just bring me down every game.

[Jack]

Nero Caine has not posted here since the 8th (but has posted elsewhere). Several scummy posts from someone with only 8 posts = lynch

unvote, vote:nero caine

Bandwagon PLEASE, and don't ask for a case when it has been made already and it's blindingly obvious why he's scummy if you read his posts.

How can you read my posts if you can't get my name correct?

This is scum trying to discredit a vote on him. Also this is the only thing he posts.

Hey.
Let's lynch CoolDog.
He is probably scum.

unvote vote cooldog.

Why not nero?


vollkan, come baaack. We can get a late run of votes.

[Nero Cain]

Nero Caine has not posted here since the 8th (but has posted elsewhere). Several scummy posts from someone with only 8 posts = lynch

unvote, vote:nero caine

Bandwagon PLEASE, and don't ask for a case when it has been made already and it's blindingly obvious why he's scummy if you read his posts.

How can you read my posts if you can't get my name correct?

This is scum trying to discredit a vote on him. Also this is the only thing he posts.

So its to much to ask that you read correctly?

[DemonHybrid]

Nero, you haven't posted in this game for 6 days, then when Jack calls you out, you feel the need to show up?

Voting you after Espy dies.

[Jack]

THAT'S RIGHT NERO, YOUR DREAMS HAVE BECOME REALITY, MY VOTE ON YOU IS INVALID BECAUSE I MISSPELLED YOUR NAME

BTW I MISSPELLED YOUR NAME BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN LURKING HARDCORE AND I HAVEN'T SEEN A POST FROM YOU IN FOREVER

[Nero Cain]

THAT'S RIGHT NERO, YOUR DREAMS HAVE BECOME REALITY, MY VOTE ON YOU IS INVALID BECAUSE I MISSPELLED YOUR NAME

BTW I MISSPELLED YOUR NAME BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN LURKING HARDCORE

AND I HAVEN'T SEEN A POST FROM YOU IN FOREVER

Why me and not NicolBolas?

[DemonHybrid]

THAT'S RIGHT NERO, YOUR DREAMS HAVE BECOME REALITY, MY VOTE ON YOU IS INVALID BECAUSE I MISSPELLED YOUR NAME

BTW I MISSPELLED YOUR NAME BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN LURKING HARDCORE

AND I HAVEN'T SEEN A POST FROM YOU IN FOREVER

Why me and not NicolBolas?

Because you responded to a vote after a 6 day absence and JUST NOW you tried to deflect suspicion onto another lurker?

What does it matter what Jack thinks of NicolBolas?

[Nero Cain]

No you didn't. If you did you would have brought it up but you didn't which tells me you were content to let him fly under the radar. Why?

The guy made three quicks posts then went on VLA. He clearly had good reasons for not explaining himself immediately

And what possible reason could that be? According to him he was acting scummy to gauge reactions. That's even worse.

I'm town so I'm going to distract ya'll from scum hunting by acting scummy to gauge reactions.

I don't like it or buy it.

I'd also like to note that Vollkan and DH both are outright lying when they say I was voting for him for going V/LA when I was merely noting his V/LA. Maybe they are upset about it 'cause they know it was a faux V/LA?

I never called his claim scummy, mostly 'cause he hadn't claimed yet but I did want him to explain himself better. Why do you find my wanting an explanation so scummy?

You're spouting bullshit.

I never once attacked you for "wanting an explanation" and it's pure misrepresentation to claim that I did.

NC+2

Let's review the history:

You expressed suspicion of CKD:

CKD deserves an FOS until he explains himself better.

CKD then legitimately asked:

curious as to what anything I have said is scummy.

Your response:

Read your own ISO. You said you'd claim. I don't like day 1 claims but fine. You said that what you have to tell us will help. Fine. I'm patiently waiting on you to explain yourself. But I'm NOT pushing for your lynch...at least not yet.

If somebody asks you "What have I done that is scummy?" (after you'd clearly expressed the view that you considered them scummy, through your FOS) and you respond by pointing their claim and that you won't lynch them "yet", the

only reasonable inference

is that you are attacking their claim. If you had some other reason for suspecting him, you presumably would have given it in answer to the question.

Goodness knows why I was then prompted to ask:

What on earth do you find scummy about his claim?

So, two questions:
1) Without being evasive and turning my question back at me without actually answering it - what was it that CKD had done that merited your FOS?; and
2) Quote me where I attacked you for wanting an explanation? If you can't point to a quote that satisfies that question (hint: it doesn't exist!), please quote which thing I said made you reasonably beleive that I had attacked you for wanting an explanation? If you can't do that, please explain why you felt the need to respond to my attacks against you with hyperbole.

1. I answered his question in my ISO 2. The answer to your question is also in 2

2.

What on earth do you find scummy about his claim?

Its perfectly logical to want an explanation. Especially when the guy pussyfooted around claiming for 2 whole posts instead of coming right out and claiming. But your are DELIBERTLY twisting my words;you said

you respond by pointing their claim and that you won't lynch them "yet"

when I made it clear that I only wanted an explanation.

From the time I posted to the time you posted there were 19 more posts. Maybe I play different than you but I don't auto read, my reads will change through the game based on new posts. I already mentioned ESP in my first post. Jack's 109 is especially stupid but 108 and 115 are full of fail as well. His no sell of 116 is scummy as fuck. I also find it incredibly odd you call ESP and Jack rivals when it looks a whole lot more like buddying. This sounds like scum/aggressive townie just trying to fling stuff at the wall and hopes it sticks.

So, basically, it's my fault for expecting to be able to see some logical pathway in your suspicion

On Jack specifically, 109, 108 and 115 may well be stupid and full of fail, but that doesn't make them scummy. And, despite your hyperboic description of 116, you've failed entirely to explain why it is sufficiently scummy to make him a "decent lynch candidate".

I apologize for not auto reading and voting for your scum buddy.

Which is not me, by the way; it's vollkan.

lol, are you trying to get

him

killed?

or doctor protection?

Vezok, replace out. You are seriously incapable of playing this game. I can tolerate inexperience, because people can improve, but you are going nowhere in terms of your play. This game requiers reasoning and analysis; you have neither. Leave.

This is extremely rude. Even if the guys sucks you have no right to tell him to GTFO. Its these kind of elitest posts that just don't belong in a mafia game. And really? If you don't like the guy just for for him.

I will look at him much closer Day 2 and see how he responds if he's still alive.

This is horrible!!! Of course your not going to kill me and the off chance that you aren't scum they wouldn't either but that post is really scummy.

unvote: vote: Espy

him, Vollkan, Jack or DH would be my choices for a lynch today.

[DemonHybrid]

You know, I hate the term OMGUS, but I'm really tempted to use it right now.

You think I'm scum now? So what's your case on me?
What do you think of my claim? I doubt you've read it.

So, your scum list is comprised of 3 people who suspected you/called you out and the biggest wagon of the day as a 4th. How do you explain that?

[Nero Cain]

THAT'S RIGHT NERO, YOUR DREAMS HAVE BECOME REALITY, MY VOTE ON YOU IS INVALID BECAUSE I MISSPELLED YOUR NAME

BTW I MISSPELLED YOUR NAME BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN LURKING HARDCORE

AND I HAVEN'T SEEN A POST FROM YOU IN FOREVER

Why me and not NicolBolas?

Because you responded to a vote after a 6 day absence and JUST NOW you tried to deflect suspicion onto another lurker?

What does it matter what Jack thinks of NicolBolas?

This makes total sense!!!! I'm just supposed to lie down and not respond when being call scum. And it matters 'cause I'm being voted for lurking, what makes me the best lurker lynch? 'Cause I posted in another thread? Oh yes that just means I HAVE to be scum huh?

[Jack]

NERO'S VOTE CONFIRMS THAT ESPY IS TOWN, THANKS NERO

dh, what I meant before about the espy wagon being laziness is that people tend to stick on a wagon when it's the biggest just because they believe another wagon won't take off, because they are too small.

BUT nero only has 2 less votes than espy right now. THIS WAGON IS PERFECTLY DOABLE, SWITCH OVER PEOPLE

[SnakePlissken]

It seems that a lot of people on here believe active lurking to be a scummy past time, yes.

unvote, vote Nero[\b]

[SnakePlissken]

Nuts

unvote, vote Neto

[SnakePlissken]

Oh for goodness sake

unvote, vote Nero

[DemonHybrid]

How does it confirm that Espy is town and Nero isn't bussing hesitantly?

[singersigner]

Doesn't confirm anything til the flip guys. Be smart.

Snake, you come in and now you're voting Nero? Why?

[Jack]

How does it confirm that Espy is town and Nero isn't bussing hesitantly?

Oh fine. It doesn't look like he's bussing hesitantly, did you just throw that out there because I said "confirmed"?

Switch to nero, put him in the lead!

[Nero Cain]

You know, I hate the term OMGUS, but I'm really tempted to use it right now.

You think I'm scum now? So what's your case on me?
What do you think of my claim? I doubt you've read it.

So, your scum list is comprised of 3 people who suspected you/called you out and the biggest wagon of the day as a 4th. How do you explain that?

This is a

LIE

. I suspected you and Jack before you two suspected me. The only OMGUS is Vollkan. I also expressed suspicion of Espy in my first post.

As far as your claim of VT goes...that's the easiest claim as over 50% of this game is probably vanilla. So no, it does not confirm you as town.

How does it confirm that Espy is town and Nero isn't bussing hesitantly?

I'd have to come up scum for it to be a bus.

dh, what I meant before about the espy wagon being laziness is that people tend to stick on a wagon when it's the biggest just because they believe another wagon won't take off, because they are too small.

Since I think both my 58-ers are unlikely to be lynched, and there is a massive cloud of WTF hanging over my Vezok read, I will

Unvote, Vote: Espeonage

Why is there a double standard, Jack?

[PranaDevil]

Espy is scum, why are people migrating over to Nero for a null-tell?

So he returned at the same time someone called him on something, whoopy, let's make a deal of it if it becomes a regular occurance, how does that sound for a tactic?

Once is a coincidence, twice is when it starts becoming an obvious ploy. Espy has been scummy as hell, Jack's been a waste of space, as has Vezo and Zwet, and yet we're somehow switching to a Nero lynch because he happened to turn up at the same time as something was directed at him? What the effing smeg? This is making no sense at the moment.

Everyone dives on Looker for a something that has ZERO scum benefit and calls him scummy because of it, and now everyone's diving on Nero for something that could be a coincidence and doesn't even consider any possibility beyond "yup, scum" despite the fact there is much scummier behaviour elsewhere. I seriously have no clue as to what the hell is going on here. Why are people dismissing scummy behaviour as fine (check Jack's stuff for the ENTIRE day phase), and something that is a null-tell or has no scum motivation behind it is somehow viewed as the scummiest action possible?

Can you all give yourselves a slap and then start to look at scummy stuff here guys? If we keep this up we may as well just turn the lights in the hotel off and let the scum run us all through.

Then perhaps we can get back to lynching Espy, or if we really, really aren't going to lynch him, we can go for Vezo, but Nero and Looker are not getting my vote at all today, I actually want to see someone acting scummy before I lynch them thankies.