Mini 1036 - DEFCON Mafia - Over

[Enigma]

Let's do this my way:
There are 6 abilities. I have one. That makes 5. Battleship is gone. That makes 4. I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING WHEN I DO IT. I'M NOT A COMPLETE DUMBASS LIKE YOU GUYS ASSUME I AM. Some of you have played/watched me play before, and I am not useless/stupid.

Please tell me I was wrong about all of the above.
If I am I will gladly shut up with my arrogant attitude for the rest of the game and sulk in the corner until I am nightkilled.

[Enigma]

On second thoughts, if he was scum he would just night kill me instead of risking himself by

breadcumbing

practically telling everyone what his role is.
Which leads me back to my next idea, he's probably just a confused little soul.

[SocioPath]

Socio happens to get online before me and decides to change votes to me for no reason whatsoever before I can its suddenly OMGUS?

Don't worry, I won't hold that against you. <3

[Enigma]

Socio happens to get online before me and decides to change votes to me for no reason whatsoever before I can its suddenly OMGUS?

Don't worry, I won't hold that against you. <3

^That and one vote is all you have to contribute so far for this day phase?

[Doombunny9]

Don't worry, I won't hold that against you. <3

Posts like these are why I'm voting you.

I know this is going to fall on deaf ars but:
@Socio- What is the reason behind you voting me?

[AurorusVox]

@RedCoyote

If no one has claimed it, then someone is lying. And if someone is lying, when the time comes to claim, we can use the information we gained during DEFCON 4 to find out who.

I don't understand what you mean. Do you mean by process of elimination through flips?

What I mean is, if the person with the sub lies about what they got, we can see, through analysing who got what preference, whether or not their supposed ability fits in with everyone else. I.e. if they claim something as a "first choice" that someone else had been awarded despite it being their second choice, or vice versa, etc.

Also I think your Doombunny case has merit, but I don't think the Andrius thing will go anywhere. Unless you can sell me on a reason why Andrius' mistakes/crumbing are more suspicious than they are overeagerness?

Oh no, I do think he's overeager, but overeager with a scum agenda. He made it quite clear yesterday that he didn't want to discuss his role anymore, and yet today, he gave a huge indication of what ability he's got. The two don't add up, unless he doesn't

really

want to avoid discussing his role. Outing himself on a "gut read" is poor townie-PR play, especially since - as SpyreX has pointed out - none of them can point conclusively to scum at this stage.

---

@Doombunny9

"So what"? Your words and actions don't match up. Your own arguments point to Faraday being the most suspect, but then you say you'd rather vote for Elscouta, and keep your vote on SocioPath. Once Elscouta gets to L-1, you switch your vote to Faraday. Your play is inconsistent, and I treat inconsistency as a scumtell.

As for "lol'ing" at my reasoning: If you're scum, you'd have known that Elscouta was a mislynch, and would have been more wary of hammering him because you wouldn't want to risk drawing the attention of being the one to hammer the townie.

In any case: what do you hope to achieve through your vote for SocioPath? Do you think that his style of play alone is enough to warrant his lynching? Or do you think that sufficient pressure will encourage him to change his style?

[Doombunny9]

"So what"? Your words and actions don't match up. Your own arguments point to Faraday being the most suspect, but then you say you'd rather vote for Elscouta, and keep your vote on SocioPath. Once Elscouta gets to L-1, you switch your vote to Faraday. Your play is inconsistent, and I treat inconsistency as a scumtell.

When I said I'd rather vote Elscouta I meant (And think I said already) that I'd rather vote him over Faraday, not over socio. And then I totally changed my mind on Elscouta Vs. Faraday near the end of the day. I know in your perfect world no one ever changes their minds but in RL people do

As for "lol'ing" at my reasoning: If you're scum, you'd have known that Elscouta was a mislynch, and would have been more wary of hammering him because you wouldn't want to risk drawing the attention of being the one to hammer the townie.

I'm not going to hammer someone who I didn't think was scum (compared to other people) XD I know the timing of it all made me look bad but if the only reason of the vote was poor timing then you're doing something wrong XD

In any case: what do you hope to achieve through your vote for SocioPath? Do you think that his style of play alone is enough to warrant his lynching? Or do you think that sufficient pressure will encourage him to change his style?

1. I hope to achieve a lynch. That is usually the main reason people vote other people
2. Let's look at socio in iso and ask that again. Contributed nothing to town? Check. Random votehopping? Check. Putting no reasoning behind his votes? Check (For all we know he could be voting me anywhere from an OMGUS vote to me being a unicorn because socio has a deep dislike for unicorns that stems from his early childhood). Keeping a random vote (At least I hope it was random) LONG past the RVS? Check. Etc. Etc.
3. That would be nice but lets be honest here: That's never going to happen.

[Zhero]

Andrius, are you deliberately being as confusing as possible?

In ISO 24-25, you act suspicious of Enigma.
In 26, you 'notice' Rule 15.
In 27 you say you're voting Enigma for role-related info.
In 29 you say you were voting for gut/Rule 15, and unvote, even though you 'noticed' Rule 15 the day before.
You offer a claim in 29, and then resist it in 31.
In 33 your motives are now 'gut, and stuff', but you insinuate that you're suspicious still? (after the unvote?)

You're putting a lot of work into saying nothing at all. Please clarify, are you suspicious of Enigma and why?

[AlmasterGM]

[Day 2, Vote Count 1 - War Games]

"In war, truth is the first casualty." --Aeschylus

[Votes]

Andrius

(2) - SpyreX, Enigma

AurorusVox

(0)

Doombunny9

(3) - SocioPath, AurorusVox, Percy

Enigma

(1) - Zhero

Faraday

(0)

Hinduragi

(0)

Percy

(0)

RedCoyote

(0)

SocioPath

(1) - Doombunny9

SpyreX

(0)

Zhero

(0)

Not Voting

(4) - Andrius, Hinduragi, Faraday, RedCoyote

[Activity]

The deadline is 27 September at 11pm EST. No prods currently needed.

[AlmasterGM]

[DEFCON Mafia - Day 2, DEFCON 2 - Announcement]

Calcifer (an Andrius & VasudeVa hydra account) replaces Andrius, effective immediately. If you are opposed to the hydra, you may PM me expressing your concerns. If a majority of players are opposed, the replacement will be rescinded.

[Enigma]

2 people = twice as much posting.

Still waiting to see him respond in this thread.
How cruel of him to leave us hanging with his half arsed claim.

[Calcifer]

2 people = twice as much posting.

Still waiting to see him respond in this thread.
How cruel of him to leave us hanging with his half arsed claim.

Not so. We'll be good.

The delay is due to the fact that he lives in the Phillipines and I live in the States, and I have to catch him up.

We won't leave you guys hanging though.

[SpyreX]

If it makes it to the next page and you're still playing coy I am not going to be amused.

[Enigma]

I don't know who "he" is because I'm not sure who is posting but,
Andrius has posted all over the site during the past 24 hours and I've seen him browsing this forum.
So I would assume he is purposely lurking.

Discussion is at a bottleneck because of the above. And it's going to hurt town.

[Calcifer]

Hey, I'm the new guy. Reading the thread now.

[SpyreX]

Aaaandd Andrius is the latest post in multiple forums.

Unvote, Vote: Andrius

[Calcifer]

Aaaandd Andrius is the latest post in multiple forums.

Unvote, Vote: Andrius

What part of "I'm trying to get Vas up to speed" did you not understand?
Yeah, I'm posting elsewhere.
But Vas is the one playing catch-up, and we're in this together now, so.

[RedCoyote]

Honestly I think what I posted in response to Faraday was reasonable. Surprised to me to see everyone completely ignored it and wouldn't stop for a second to consider other possibilities and continued to accuse him.

This is pretty defensive, and I don't think you're conceding enough to our (Percy, me, and Zhero) similar point of views on the subject. This, coupled with the major disconnect between you and I on the town getting it's lynch in before the mafia had their nightkill situated, really puts us at odds. I don't know if it's scummy yet, but I do suspect there will be friction between us for the foreseeable future.

---

Ok, follow me with this:

Vote: Andrius

Help, I'm already lost.

No, okay, I see where you're going. What worries me is were acting a little rashly on a player who has a history of being kind of overeager. I guess this devolves into more of a subjective thing. Maybe because I've just been burned on Elscouta, and that's influencing me somewhat. I'm more willing to write this off as short-sighted than I am to pursue it as an evil scheme. Am I wrong?

---

Andrius has the radar ability. Last night he tracked me. So obviously I have an active ability too.

Jeez, I miss one day and there are already covert paramilitary operations influx.

If this is the truth, and since it's coming straight from the horse's mouth I'm inclined to believe it, then now we have a bit of information. I don't know (actually I do know, it's not) if it's worth the cost of giving the scum this information, but at least we know now that Andrius and Enigma are in no way aligned together. It's probably likely at this point that one of them is scum, although Enigma's only sin was using the ability he choose at the beginning of the game, just as Andrius did.

It boggles my mind that Andrius would automatically assume a Radar result to be scum. I cannot think of any logical reason for pushing through with it other than just not thinking long-term. In other words, I tend to agree much more with your post 301.

---

What I mean is, if the person with the sub lies about what they got, we can see, through analysing who got what preference, whether or not their supposed ability fits in with everyone else. I.e. if they claim something as a "first choice" that someone else had been awarded despite it being their second choice, or vice versa, etc.

This is borderline, AV. Maybe later in the game, much later in the game, but you're talking about, essentially, posting your entire list of choices (up to and including the sub choice). This is exactly what I was harping on Elscouta for, because, although it would likely nail a confirmed scum, it would also paint a very vivid picture of the game for everyone.

---

Andrius has posted all over the site during the past 24 hours and I've seen him browsing this forum.
So I would assume he is purposely lurking.

If this is true, and I tend to assume these accusations are true for better or worse, then this makes Andrius look more suspicious than he otherwise would have to me.

Okay, y'all sold me. Town Andrius/Calcifer would be less inclined, I think, to be this sneaky. He'd want to ask for forgiveness if he thought he was in the wrong, or, contrarily, he would be pushing Enigma hard if he thought what he did was right. Either of these reactions would strike me as townie. Ignoring the problem, however, does not.

Vote: Calcifer

[Enigma]

This is pretty defensive, and I don't think you're conceding enough to our (Percy, me, and Zhero) similar point of views on the subject. This, coupled with the major disconnect between you and I on the town getting it's lynch in before the mafia had their nightkill situated, really puts us at odds. I don't know if it's scummy yet, but I do suspect there will be friction between us for the foreseeable future.

Unfortunately what I posted is true and it is horribly suss that no one even stopped to acknowledge a counter argument and continued to tunnel Escoulta. I don't see the disconnect and don't see why it's scummy.
I expressed that I would have preferred if the hammer hadn't occurred so early, I listed the reasons why and linked where I previously defended Escoulta argument, then pointed out an argument stating why I though there were multiple scum on the Escoulata lynch.
No one shares all the same one opinions. Doesn't necessary imply it is scummy. In fact I would go to say conformity is much more scummy.

Jeez, I miss one day and there are already covert paramilitary operations influx.

If this is the truth, and since it's coming straight from the horse's mouth I'm inclined to believe it, then now we have a bit of information. I don't know (actually I do know, it's not) if it's worth the cost of giving the scum this information, but at least we know now that Andrius and Enigma are in no way aligned together. It's probably likely at this point that one of them is scum, although Enigma's only sin was using the ability he choose at the beginning of the game, just as Andrius did.

It boggles my mind that Andrius would automatically assume a Radar result to be scum. I cannot think of any logical reason for pushing through with it other than just not thinking long-term. In other words, I tend to agree much more with your post 301.

It's the only logical explanation from my PoV. I'm tried of his half arsed claim and it's a waste of time and distraction to town trying to comprehend what is going on in his mind.

IMO, scum would have already had a good idea of what Andrius is referring to. So it's no new information to them. They know I'm not scum so cop would not have turned up a positive result. We all know Andrius doesn't have eavesdrop so there is no way he found some inside information. Fighter is a useless accusation with no basis for argument (atm). Radar is the only investigative ability left.

You say you think that one of us is likely to be scum. Yet you agree with my posts about Andrius being a confused person. Earlier you say I might be scummy? Are you implying I'm scum? Make up your mind and take a stance so there is no misunderstanding.

[SpyreX]

The part where you've been playing peek a boo over and over and not laying it out.

The part where "getting up to speed" STILL gets a rapid response.

The part where I misvote:

Unvote, Vote: Calicfornron

[VasudeVa]

(Post merged onto the proper account. --AGM)

[Calcifer]

(Post merged onto the proper account. --AGM)

Hi. Soo, reread is done . I know that this slot is in heavy suspicion, so please ask questions etc. I have knowledge of Andy's meta, so I think I can explain his actions for him better. But really, it's not scummy behavior if you think of it. Anti-Town, I agree. Scum? Doubtful.

Anyway here's my notes/reread. Tell me what you think of it.

Page 2

Enigma #25:

Is weird with his #64. In #25, he says that everyone should get Espionage and Eavesdrop as high priorities, but then in #64 says eavesdrop is useless. Hmm...

Page 3
Hinduragi #71: Don't like. His post is pretty obv, and is filler.
Aurorus #74: Rubs me in a wrong way. Firstly, he nitpicks Faraday who isn't the only one who's not providing discussion.

Page 4
Hinduragi #75: Major dislike. He's pertaining to Percy's #55 wherein Percy asks a question about useless abilities and says he already sent in his preferences. What's wrong with asking a question about useless abilities even if you've already sent your preferences?
Doombunny #78: Too much 'YOU'RE NOT SCUMHUNTING' accusations to go this early in the game with no votes. Don't like.

Zhero #82: Is bad. Filler + last post was Page 1?
Enigma #85-86 pings Town.
I don't understand Doombunny's #90. Feels like filler.

Page 5
I don't understand why the fuck people are agreeing with the submarine claim. Submarine works DEFCON 1.Mafia/SK get nightkills DEFCON 2.

Hindu #108: Man this guy is on a roll. Instantaneously agreeing to the submarine claim without prior discussion since they can lie about it anyway? Check!
Doombunny #120: This guy too.

Page 6
Spy #125: Aand this guy.
Socio #126: This guy too.
Zhero #127: This guy finally follows up.

Okay, that was a bad lead. >.>. I still want reasoning on why these people agreed to the sub claim.

Doom v. Enigma #128-#129, #143-#145: Enigma wins Town points, Doombunny moves up to probscumlandia. I especially dislike DB's #144 where he goes from thickheadedly ignorant tone to a slightly apologetic explanatory tone. Hmm...

Faraday is awesome and Town.

Page 7
Hindu #156: This guy cruises into probScum territory.
Zhero #154: is playing a lot like his scum-self in Advance Wars Mafia wherein he's more interested in talking mechanics and what to do/not to do, attacking people and not following with votes.
Hindu #170: Wha? Parrot much? His #174 explanation doesn't explain much too.

Page8
Doombunny #188: Don't like. Going for the easy attack on Faraday.
Enigma #197: Not sure if he was serious here, but why is he voting Andy/Calcifer in the recent votecount? Oh wait he was being sarcastic. Cool. Meh.

Page9

Hindu #209: Okay, what the fuck at the @Enigma tidbit. But he's already scum so w/e. Seriously, what do scum have to gain with feigning ignorance? Nothing. They feign ignorance once they've been called on it, but they don't feign ignorance from page 1 onwards.
Faraday #212: I agree with this reasoning.
Doombunny's #223: is a possible chainsaw, and is an attack on an easy target.


Page 10
Zhero #246: Seems to be a lot more interested in defending himself, then adding a worthless defense to Els. Also, similar to Advance Wars Mafia etc. etc.

Hindu #226-#227: Possible daytalk shenanigans.

Doombunny9 #247: Huh?

Oh hai Redcoyote's massive wall of null/not-Town #249! I missed you~

Page 11:
SP #267: What happened to Hindu?
Enigma #273: I don't understand why the fuck would scum BREADCRUMB their role to Town? What advantage is there for scum to do that? None. Nada. This incessant tunneling us horrible. Town points lost.

A note on SpyreX: Coast-y as hell. Only, I always see that from him, and it's hard to comment.


Page 12:
Spy #288: What the fuck. What kind of leap and bound of logic did you make to conclude that I had a guilty? This is a horrible leap in logic, and I fail to see despite the explanation that made him conclude that I had a guilty. Of course, there is the vote. But how in the hell does that = guilty? Also, if you think Andy is a Cop with a guilty, why the fuck are you voting for him instead of the guy he's voting for!?

Enigma #299: This could easily be explanable by Andrius' sillyness. OBviously, since you were tunneling him for days on end, he would obviously be suspicious of you. My result does not mean that you are obviously Town, since SCUM GET POWERS TOO OMG. It is horrible to assume that because I tracked you and got a result then proceeded to vote for you anyway because I know that scum get powers too and whatever result I have is null, that I am scum.

tl;dr: Hindu and Doombunny are probscum. Spy might be probscum. Zhero might be scum. Enigma was town earlierbut... he changed; not so sure now. I understand him getting angry for the Anti-towness though.

Percy is obvTown. Faraday is probably Town. Aurorous, probTown.

---

I think people should think what the scum motivations are for Andy acting like he is. True, he did out some power roles, but that was unintentional. It would all have been avoided if Enigma wasn't an idiot and just shut fuck up when he saw the breadcrumbs(LIKE EVERYONE SHOULD.) and Spy for being derpy with his logic up there(OH MY GOD, I THINK ANDY IS A COP WITH A GUILTY. I THINK I'LL VOTE FOR HIM INSTEAD OF THE GUY HE'S VOTING FOR).

Seriously, you guys brought this upon yourselves. You may not be familiar with Andy's play style, but the idiotic 'I'll call out this guy's breadcrumbs!' and the subsequent 'COP WITH GUILTY!? VOTE: COP' shenanigans are fucking retarded.

You two should be ashamed of yourselves. Seriously. >.>. I'm just not sure if this stupidity is filled with scum-intent or whatnot.

---

@RedCoyote: Andy was apologetic, but apparently any attempt he had to explain himself had people calling him stupid. Of course, he'll lurk a little. In fact, he called me in this game because he was having problems how to deal with this situation he's in.

---

Vote: Hinduragi

The guy who I'm most confident is scum.

[Enigma]

Regarding my backflip about Eavesdrop which so many people seem to want to review over and over again.
Early game in this thread was rather pathetic. Seemed everyone just wanted to confirm then AFK until preferences could be made and voting could begin.
I tried to initiate discussion multiple times. If I was scum I was have just shut up and watch discussion stagnate.
Eavesdrop is a good ability at first glance, I'm sure most people recognized that. If I was scum I most likely would have shut up about the counter measures to that and hope some stupid townie fell for it. Instead I warned everyone about it, which does not at all contribute to the scum agenda.
So no, to all you people thinking that is a scumtell, go find something substantial, think about it, and come back with your arguement.
^Which appears I pointed out already doubling back to see what 85/86 were.

About the Andrius issue.
Honestly I'm going to say I wasn't convinced he was confirmed scum. I had to vote him to pressure him to clear up the mess he started.
Firstly his breadcumbing is obvious. Whether I pointed it out or not, people would have noticed. Comeon, not everyone is as stupid as you give them credit for.

Don't fucking blame me for chucking all this shit at him. He started this mess the moment he got the urge to expose me based on his investigation. And now I have to clean up the crap he started.
What should I have done, ignore the whole issue and hope it would go away? No. The result would just be a cesspool of shit thrown against me if I had approached it any other way.
Do you not see the way he tried to insinuate I was scum at the beginning of the day with his "cop" claim. So no, I'm not going to get myself lynched because of the retarded actions he did.
As far as I'm concerned I took the best approach to the issue and pointed out the facts. Otherwise the only result would be mindless bickering and second guessing in completely the wrong direction and me getting even more annoyed at Andrius than I already am.

Town PR's are supposed to stay quite until they have substantial evidence which will benefit the town when they come out. His idiotic and stupid actions has royally fucked 2 town (I do think he's town and I've mentioned why) PR's. I'm not willing to accept any blame for all this shit that he has caused.

I wasn't tunneling him for days on end. Get your facts right. I called out his breadcrumbing and tried to generate discussion regarding that, near the end of day 1. I'm not claiming his investigation clears me. I'm saying it's fucking retarded to insinuate I am scum to everyone else without providing reasons, and it is still shameful to assume I am scum based on the fact I have an active ability.

Percy is obvTown. Faraday is probably Town. Aurorous, probTown.

^This is retarded and unsubstantiated. Town lists are stupid and baseless unless you are told by the mod and you didn't even discuss why they are town.

So it seems you have avoided these pertaining issues.

Why did Andrius softclaim on me and what did he hope to achieve with his result?
Why would you force a PR whose alignment could very well be town to reveal himself? How does this support the town agenda? STUPIDITY is not an excuse.

This is my usual meta, get used to it. No I'm not that angry atm IRL. It's how I express myself in an argument over the interwebz.
Maybe excessive with the insults but you get the point, that and I'm so glad I'm out of a game where I can call someone stupid without being patronized and blacklisted by some nazi mod.
If the person I have insulted think it is excessive, just say so and I will direct any narcissistic comments towards you much more subtly. However I feel this case is substantiated based on the previous post directed at me.

Unvote

[Calcifer]

No, the breadcrumbs had a chance to stay unnoticed. You calling it out made that chance Zero. I don't fully blame you for that, it's partly because of Andrius' play too. Still, you voted for him for that reason so I had to call you out on it.

I meant RL days. That's still demoralizing, and you were too busy calling him stupid to actually listen to him. I see his posts were trying to answer your questions as honestly as he can.

I don't buy the reasoning "Calling people Town give scum kill lists lol!". Firstly, this is a no-vanilla game, scum kill PRs every time. Secondly, calling people Town organizes Town and give scum headaches on who to mislynch, thus disorganizing them even for a little bit(especially daytalking scum, like we have here.). Thirdly, that conjecture is a myth. I have never seen a game wherein scum actually look for/use those lists for their kills. They'll kill whoever they want to regardless of what we say in thread.

I'll ask Andy about those bolded questions in our Hydra QT. I don't really see how he forced you though. From what I read, he's jokingly cheery and reactive in this game(Maybe you can quote/link the posts in question). I do think you are over reacting to what he said and raging too much. (AlmGM games do that to you.)

[RedCoyote]

Can you say overreaction? :\