Last Will Mafia II (Over)

[Xite91]

@Kmd
1) No, the first time I agreed with your conclusion on Raider, but not the way you got to it. I thought he was more town because of his VI-type play, not because of the wagon at all.
2) Then it obviously wasn't that strong of a tell.
3) Yeah, but that was the original reason you voted me. Of course I would figure that you'd have some semblance of the same reason for voting for me, but why would you?
4) It's very WIFOMy and I don't want to get into it. Lets drop this point
5) a) You gave (biased) information based off of your reads, and then your reads based off of it
b) Again, see a
c) Definitely true, it was biased info based on your reads
d) It is, but I'm not sure when I said that... If I did though, show me
e) But you took out the players you were positive (and probably wrong about) were town
f) Then use the WHOLE tm and not just those you think are scummy in the first place. Why was it scummy to try to get a different lynch going in the first place if you didn't agree with the first one?

1) Um, Kmd4390 is right about Xite91 behaving suspiciously. Her posting of late is way to defensive for my liking. Sounds like she has got something to hide. Quite a good lynch actually.

2) Xite91's voting style is anomalous. Problem is, she's not the only one...

1) Because now I'm being attacked? Based on 1) Me as a person (since kmd knows me IRL) and 2) A votecount analysis that is ridiculously biased.
2) So why bring only me up about it?

[Battousai]

@Charlie- If you have 2 or so hours to kill, you try making another voting spreadsheet for D2/D3. It's not fun. It's probably easier to make when you add onto it as the day goes on. What did you mean by the dictating of things? Also, your post about my iso 41 and 43. Take a stance on it. Tell me if you think it is scummy or tell me if it is townie. Tell me if it would most likely come from scum than town. Give me something other than "That's a bit strange."

"Content generation from these people are excellent and should be referred back again:
Kmd4390 (everything)
Battousai (vote count spreadsheet)
esuriospiritus (breakdown analysis of wagons)
Rhinox (said that there is a lot of useless thing happening and this rings true; goodposting)
Jahudo (red panda)"

My vote count spreadsheet was not content, it was information. Rhinox's one post should not be enough to give him a pass for the day, especially when it is a comment that a lot of useless things are happening. I don't know what you mean by red panda.

"Ythan (Probably town, but still a good lynch. Yes.)"

No. If you have a town read, enough so that you can call him probable town, you should not lynch him. If you did and you were in lylo, it will lessen your chances of getting a correct lynch. I would because I have a null read on him, but his anti-town play is what pushed my vote.

@Kmd- Do you normally try and get people lynched (via rallying for votes against them) and then switch and try and get them to look at someone you actually find scummy? 'Cause that is what you did with Ythan and I was wondering what the mentallity behind it is. Do you find people try to defend themselves through action when you give them an out like that? By going for him do you feel that you put him in the position to try and show his towniness to you by doing what you want?

[Kmd4390]

Early Day 1:

Shattered Viewpoint

(4) - nachomamma8, Ythan,

EGL

, Jahudo

RichardGHP

(3) - Amished, kmd4390, holycon
Plum (2) - Charlie, rhinox
Super Smash Bros. Fan (2) -

Diacria, Shattered Viewpoint

millar13 (2) - RichardGHP,

chronopie

Diacria

(2) - Super Smash Bros. Fan,

Twomz

Amished (1) - Plum
Ythan (1) -

millar13
twomz

(1) - Batt

Not Voting (5) -

Michel

, Esurio, Animorph, xite91, Locke

A Plum

Raider

wagon forms:
Plum (6) - Charlie, rhinox, Amished, Batt, Super Smash Bros. Fan, Jahudo

Shattered Viewpoint

(3) - nachomamma8, Ythan,

EGL

Super Smash Bros Fan (2) -

Shattered Viewpoint

, xite91
Amished (1) - Plum
Ythan (1) -

millar13

Chronopie (1) -

Diacria
millar13

(1) - chronopie

RichardGHP

(1) - holycon

Diacria (1) - Twomz

Not Voting (6) -

Michel

, Esurio, Animorph, xite91, Locke, kmd4390,

RichardGHP

Wagon adds some votes:
Plum (8) - Charlie, Rhinox, Super Smash Bros. Fan, Jahudo, nachomamma8,

RichardGHP, Michel

, Batt

Michel (4) - millar13, Twomz

, animorpherv1, Amished

Shattered Viewpoint

(2) - Ythan,

EGL

RichardGHP

(2) - holycon, Xite91
Super Smash Bros. Fan (1) -

Shattered Viewpoint

Chronopie (1) -

Diacria

Not Voting (5) - Esurio, Locke, kmd4390, chronopie, Plum

And the votes spread:
Plum (5) - Charlie, Jahudo, nachomamma8,

RichardGHP, Michel

Michel (5) - millar13, twomz

, animorpherv1, Amished,

Diacria
RichardGHP

(5)- holycon, xite91, Plum, kmd4390, Chronopie

Shattered Viewpoint

(4) - Ythan,

EGL,

, Esurio Super Smash Bros. Fan
Super Smash Bros Fan (1) -

Shattered Viewpoint

Chronopie (1) - rhinox
Xite91 (1) - Batt

Not Voting (1) - Locke

And a lynch:

Shattered Viewpoint

(12) - Ythan,

EGL

, esurio, Super Smash Bros. Fan, Amished, Charlie, kmd4390, holycon,

towmz

, animorpherv1, Batt,

millar13

Plum (3) - Jahudo, nachomamma8,

Michel

RichardGHP

(3) - Xite91, Plum, chronopie
Super Smash Bros. Fan (1) -

Shattered Viewpoint

Chronopie (1) - rhinox

Michel (1) - Diacria

Not Voting (2) - Locke,

RichardGHP

Placement of each player on each of the 5 vote counts:
01 Amished - Richard, Plum, Michel, Michel, Shattered.
02 rhinox - Plum, Plum, Plum, Chro, Chro
03 nachomamma8 - Shattered, Shattered, Shattered, Plum, Plum
04 Ythan - Shattered, Shattered, Shattered, Shattered, Shattered
05 Plum - Amished, Amished, No Vote, Richard, Richard
06 Super Smash Bros. Fan - Diacria, Plum, Plum, Richard, Richard
08 chronopie - millar, millar, no vote, richard, richard
09 Jahudo - Shattered, Plum, Plum, Plum, Plum
10 Battousai - Twomz, Plum, Plum, Xite, Shattered
16 Xite91 - No vote, No vote, Richard, Richard, Richard
17 esuriospiritus - No vote, No vote, No vote, Shattered, Shattered
18 Locke Lamora - No vote, No vote, No vote, No vote, No vote
19 kmd4390 - Richard, Richard, no vote, Richard, Shattered
20 animorpherv1 - No vote, No vote, Michel, Michel, Shattered
21 Charlie - Plum, Plum, Plum, Plum, Shattered
22 holycon - Richard, Richard, Richard, Richard, Shattered

Amished was on all four wagons. Looks like scum hopping to four townies. This implies Plumtown.

Plum's (Raider's) vote went one way, then nowhere, then another way. It was never parked on the player who ended up lynched either. Looks like an honest change of heart rather than opportunism. Chro kind of did the same thing, so I lean town on him a little more now.

Smash Bras went from a popular wagon (Plum/Raider) to another that ended up lynched. Implies wagony scum, also Plumtown.

I don't like Batt's jumping around. He was on Twomz, which was a popular wagon at one point. Then he joins the Plumwagon. Then he goes to Xite, and when that isn't popular, he ends up on the lynchee.

Not sure what to make of Animorph here. Looks bad at first, but then I look closer and can't tell.

I like Charlie/holy voting one person the entire time until we needed a lynch. Ythan being on Shattered the entire time is a point in his favor as well.

Now, using the above to say Plum is town:
First VC: Charlie, rhinox -
Second VC: Charlie, rhinox, Amished, Batt, Super Smash Bros. Fan, Jahudo
Third VC: Charlie, Rhinox, Super Smash Bros. Fan, Jahudo, nachomamma8, RichardGHP, Michel, Batt
Fourth VC: Charlie, Jahudo, nachomamma8, RichardGHP, Michel
Fifth VC: Jahudo, nachomamma8, Michel
Fifth VC, Shattered edition: Ythan, EGL, esurio, Super Smash Bros. Fan, Amished, Charlie, kmd4390, holycon, towmz, animorpherv1, Batt, millar13

On the first VC -These players consistently voted Plum for a while. They look good in this analysis.
On the second VC - Amished, Batt, Smash Bras, Jahudo ...

1-2 scum in this list guaranteed.

I don't think Jahudo is scum.
On the third VC - Batt dropped and revoted 8th. Amished dropped all together (+Townpoints). Nacho jumps on (+Scum points). Richard and Michel are dead town.\
On the fourth VC - Rhinox, Smash Bras, and Batt drop for Chro, Richard, and Xite, respectively. Smash Bras looks the worst here.
On the fifth VC - Nothing notable.
On the fifth VC, Shattered edition - There ARE scumz here.

Smash Bras, Amished and Batt are scum.

(Yes, I said town points for Amished until I remembered he dropped the Raider wagon for CSL.

[Kmd4390]

I'll answer posts later. Wasn't ignoring you guys. Just saw someone ask about plum and got carried away with analysis.

[Nachomamma8]

I am failing miserably at keeping up with that game. Charlie, would you like to hold on to my vote for now?

[Ythan]

Besides the obvious problems with Charlie calling me a good mislynch there is the problem of his reasoning. Since I've started posting.

[Locke Lamora]

Just ISOed Ani and I don't think he's a good lynch. It's mostly just VI comments and not paying attention to the game. There aren't even that many votes to analyse. Let's lynch SSBF.

[Charlie]

1) Because now I'm being attacked? Based on 1) Me as a person (since kmd knows me IRL) and 2) A votecount analysis that is ridiculously biased.
2) So why bring only me up about it?

1) I'm sorry, but the way you're defending yourself looks like you've got something to hide. And I think that's the fact that you're mafia.
2) Point taken.

@Charlie- If you have 2 or so hours to kill, you try making another voting spreadsheet for D2/D3. It's not fun. It's probably easier to make when you add onto it as the day goes on. What did you mean by the dictating of things? Also, your post about my iso 41 and 43. Take a stance on it. Tell me if you think it is scummy or tell me if it is townie. Tell me if it would most likely come from scum than town. Give me something other than "That's a bit strange."

1) Mafia then sure looks a lot like work!

2) Aha, you were not around during that dictating of thing shenanigans... It is this:

Some text

You don't get to dictate these things, you know.

unvote

Vote: Some person

Thing got repeated a number of times till it got old (yeah sure it was funny the first few times). Due to the unvote and vote, I deem D1 votecount analysis to be less useful because the reason behind the vote was a joke.

3) Take a stance...hmmm... problem is, I was hoping that other people could analyse that bit because I'm unsure of what to make of it. It could be that you're mafia and made a mistake (you're caught!) or in a wider context, you're any alignment using words loosely. But if I really really had to choose, I'll go with you're mafia.

My vote count spreadsheet was not content, it was information. Rhinox's one post should not be enough to give him a pass for the day, especially when it is a comment that a lot of useless things are happening. I don't know what you mean by red panda.

1) You present good information then.
2) Hm. You make a good point but I'm entitled to think for myself on this one.
3) Yeah, that red panda... look back on what I said about it in ISO. That comment was a tad bit random, so I'm sorry if you're confused.

No. If you have a town read, enough so that you can call him probable town, you should not lynch him. If you did and you were in lylo, it will lessen your chances of getting a correct lynch. I would because I have a null read on him, but his anti-town play is what pushed my vote.

Yeah, but this isn't lylo yet (at least I hope not). Also, check out the mafia win condition: they have to control majority of votes, not players in this game.

I am failing miserably at keeping up with that game. Charlie, would you like to hold on to my vote for now?

I'm flattered, but proxy voting is a bad idea. Moreso, you're one of my prime suspects!

Besides the obvious problems with Charlie calling me a good mislynch there is the problem of his reasoning. Since I've started posting.

No, you!

[Kmd4390]

Xite, I didn't know being a VI was a towntell, but ok.

I remember it being pretty strong. And my gut has said holy is town all game.

Nah. The original vote was out of frustration just like the ythan vote. I do suspect both of you, but there are better lynches like batt/smash bras/amished.

Wait, how is my read on chro vs yours WIFOM? And even if it is, so what? Scared of a little WIFOM?

I didn't give info based on reads. I gave reads based on info. The only info I posted was the vote counts and green coloring for dead townies. Everything else is my reads.

--------

Batt, no, not like this normally. Ythan has more votes than the rest of us, so ii is important that his votes are in the right place. Its not about his alignment at all.

[Ythan]

Chuck that's not even close to a response. You're still trying to justify lynching a town read based on the fact that I'm not participating. Except...

[Charlie]

Tybalt, I'm not Chuck. And "No, you" is a perfect response to you. And, I'm not pushing for your lynch, I'm pushing for Nacho's and Plum's. It just so happens that my vote is on you. Are you paying attention to my words, or just my vote?

[Ythan]

Chuck please learn to read and then apply it to this game. I'm enjoying being in a game where I don't have to talk around some blithering idiot so please don't be that guy.

[Charlie]

Tybalt, I did read. And I wish so would you because (for the third time I'm saying) I'm NOT pushing for your lynch. You should have nothing to worry from me (aside from my vote, of course). We can both enjoy the game.

[Ythan]

You foolish fool. I'm not going to baby you so if you want to take part in a dialogue you can go back and actually respond to the things literally in my preceding posts. If not then you can leave it.

[Charlie]

What is it that you want from me?

[Xite91]

1) Because now I'm being attacked? Based on 1) Me as a person (since kmd knows me IRL) and 2) A votecount analysis that is ridiculously biased.
2) So why bring only me up about it?

1) I'm sorry, but the way you're defending yourself looks like you've got something to hide. And I think that's the fact that you're mafia.
2) Point taken.

1) I was frustrated because... well lets look at it this way.
I've seen some damn good women baseball players
But they don't get put into the major leagues
Why?
Because they're girls.

In that same aspect

I play mafia a certain way
But he thinks it should be a different way
Why?
Because it's me.

Just like the woman baseball player, it's annoying to have to fight that stipulation.

And the second reasoning is because he is using biased information to show his reads. And then saying, no that whole part is reads, not information, but he's adding votecounts and such, so really it IS information, though he doesn't want to admit it.

1) Xite, I didn't know being a VI was a towntell, but ok.

2) Nah. The original vote was out of frustration just like the ythan vote. I do suspect both of you, but there are better lynches like batt/smash bras/amished.

3) Wait, how is my read on chro vs yours WIFOM? And even if it is, so what? Scared of a little WIFOM?

4) I didn't give info based on reads. I gave reads based on info. The only info I posted was the vote counts and green coloring for dead townies. Everything else is my reads.

1) It isn't always, but I went through his ISO and even said why
2) So... it was because of how I play?
3) No, the whole argument was WIFOMy and I didn't want to keep going with it.
4) You gave info, then used those TM's (more info) but left out your towntells, hence info based on reads.
then reads based on biased info.

[Amished]

@KMD: So, moving on: What do you make of the rest of the game's wagons in the other 2 days that we've gotten to a lynch? Or is that coming?

@Charlie: Voting for somebody you don't suspect? How is that useful? Make content or die, bickering with Ythan giving him a chance to continue being "active" without saying anything is less than productive.

/sides with Xite

[Battousai]

I agree with xite on your information/content tm analysis post. Leaving out players you think are town in order to get a better judgement on those you don't is fine, however in the sense you determined who was scum, it would be best to put those who you feel is town in there as well. This way you can balance out those reads and see if someone you find townie is acting in a similar way of someone you have thought of as scummy.

[Charlie]

Okay, Xite you've made your point. However you don't really have to worry about getting any flak from me because you're a semi-sheeped suspect and I know that sheeping all the time isn't a good thing. Already I'm going along that SSBF is mafia based on sheeping a few people I feel are town; if I were to sheep that you're mafia as well would be ridiculous because I simply don't see you and SSBF both being mafia. No; let me reiterate: It's ridiculous!

Understand from my post that I'm much more in favour of an SSBF lynch over yours. In this sense I'm agreeing with you on your prime suspect, SSBF which you've been bickering on for so long. Due to this I feel you overly zealous defence of yourself is unwarranted.

@Charlie: Voting for somebody you don't suspect? How is that useful? Make content or die, bickering with Ythan giving him a chance to continue being "active" without saying anything is less than productive.

Make content, make content, make content. Is that all you want from me? I'm not the best content-maker; this I know and accept. Many times I've been told that I've put my foot in my mouth and many times I've gotten lynched (as either alignment, really). Can't you just accept that I fair better when I'm at the sidelines, saying stuff? For the record, Amished, I'm doing the exact same thing here as I did in L4D Mafia. You of all people should understand this, but nope. Your unyielding attitude is not impressive, IMHO.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, pretty sure xite isn't going to understand this no matter how many times I lay it out. I'm done.

-----

Amished, I did that already a few pages back.

------

Batt, I removed town reads because I was creating a suspect list and town reads don't belong in a suspect list.

[Ythan]

What is it that you want from me?

To understand simple concepts.

[Charlie]

I do not want to talk to you at this point. You make bunny cry.

[Ythan]

Secondary wincon, make someone cry, check.

[Amished]

@Charlie: Voting for somebody you don't suspect? How is that useful? Make content or die, bickering with Ythan giving him a chance to continue being "active" without saying anything is less than productive.

Make content, make content, make content. Is that all you want from me? I'm not the best content-maker; this I know and accept. Many times I've been told that I've put my foot in my mouth and many times I've gotten lynched (as either alignment, really). Can't you just accept that I fair better when I'm at the sidelines, saying stuff? For the record, Amished, I'm doing the exact same thing here as I did in L4D Mafia. You of all people should understand this, but nope. Your unyielding attitude is not impressive, IMHO.

And your point? The only reason I suspected that you were just a VI there instead of my opposing scum faction was because I thought I had the other ones pegged. One game does not a meta make and content is how I get reads on people. If you'd pay attention you'd know I could probably rattle off 5-6 people that would not mind lynching you for your *non* participation. "I don't want to get lynched" definitely does not help your case and I'm considering switching over to you even with obv-scum SSBF over here.

[Ythan]

Let's not. Fan is much worse. Charlie is not my number one favorite player in the game but he's not bad.