Newbie 1002: Nowherevilletownplace (D3)

[el simo]

Also the reason I went for the Rambo avatar is because when I first registered I played with a guy who has now retired from mafia - John Locke. He had a picture of the bald guy from Lost and when ever I read his posts I read it in his accent. I figured it would be funny if people read my posts as Rambo and thought I was always really angry.

[Furcolow]

WE NEED A WAGON ON SOMEONE
START VOTING

[ooBAZZoo]

Sorry guys, another long post.
This is basically my read of everyone excpet el simo (who I covered in #312).

But the important bit is at the end, so feel free to skip to there.

----

MightyDarkZero/Cloudocean –
I have nothing much to say about Cloudocean, who only posted twice before becoming inactive. MightyDarkZero spent a long time dilly-dallying before posting anything significant: probably a null-tell though, he could have just been busy.
When he does start posting, he doesn’t bring any new arguments to the table, only focuses on the issues others are concerned with: not sure what to make of this, could be scum trying to avoid controversy, but this is only speculation.
-- My current read is neutral, need to see more posts from him, possibly more independent scumhunting.

FrozenAeon -
First to vote Furcolow for suggesting a roleclaim (#57): a null-tell, could be scum pushing a point, or town being vigilant.
Since then has been active lurking, posting just enough to avoid replacement: scumpoints for this.
Her first post after a long absence was “I thought we were going to lynch Furcolow for being scum?”(#209): scumpoints for neglecting everything that has passed since her previous post and pushing a potential lynch.
Unvoted Furcolow when pressured by town (#240): possible scumpoints, although could be newb-town responding to pressure from more experienced players.
In general, has contributed very little to discussion, has done very little scumhunting except for pushing a Furcolow lynch.
-- Not sure what to make of her, could be newb-town who isn’t that dedicated to the game, on the other hand, has given some reason for me to believe she’s scum. I don’t find her scummy enough to vote outright, but would vote her if needed to make a majority before deadline.

Lobstermania –
What he has posted as been well reasoned, but the problem is he has posted very little.
Lots of lurking and some active lurking: Despite it being very annoying, I see this as a null-tell.
-- Hasn’t posted anything in seven days, so I think I’m right in saying he should have been replaced already, or will be replaced soon. Think his replacement should be given a chance to post.

Maddie –
Again, hasn’t posted in a long time (10 days) so is due to be replaced (or have I misunderstood this whole replacement business?). Did say she was moving country which explains the inactivity, but she never posted an official V/LA, not on the thread anyway.
What she did post was always well reasoned and thought out.
Also, very probing and inquisitive: town-points for this.
-- Most town read I have. If she’s not town, she’s very clever scum.

Zenken -
I know I’ve given my read of him before, but I’ll just mention it again.
Almost everything he posts reads newbie, thats obvious. The reason I believe he’s newb-town and not newb-scum is because I believe if this was your first ever game and you were randomly picked as scum, you’d play a cautious game. IMO, newb-scum wouldn’t draw so much attention to themselves with ridiculous questions and strange posts, they’d find out for themselves. Newb-town players, on the other hand, see no problem with relying on the town to answer their questions or correct them if they make a mistake. In my first game I was scum, and I was always shit-scared of stepping out of line, making an obvious mistake, and drawing attention to myself (I know I can’t compare play-styles to my own).
-- Town read. However his posts need to be more reasoned. Also needs to read through his posts before submitting them, some of the spelling/grammar mistakes make parts of his posts incomprehensible.

Furcolow -
To do a post-by-post read of him would bore you all to death. I’m unsure whether to believe his cop claim, but in general I do not trust him.
His detective/cop mistake is still a massive scumtell IMO.
He hasn’t done any proper scumhunting, despite throwing his vote around like a maniac.
He hides behind his suspect role as an “uncounterclaimed cop”, which is about as useful as me saying “I’m an uncounterclaimed fairy, SO DON’T VOTE ME”.
I know people have said to wait for tomorrow before voting him. I see the reasoning behind this, but I also feel that it’s pretty pointless too. The reason I think this is pointless is: 1) He may not be a cop and has been lying to us all along, 2) He will likely be night-killed, 3) If not night-killed he’ll be roleblocked (if a roleblocker exists), and 4) if he does survive the night and give us someone’s role, I’ll have a

very

hard time believing him anyway.
-- He’s infuriated me at a number of points, but this is a null-tell when it comes to his role. However for other reasons, I think there’s a massive possibility he’s scum. I would be happy to lynch him today, because although I'm not 100% that he's not cop, I think keeping him around is pointless anyway (as explained above), and my general read of him aside from the cop business is scum.

Kanashimi –
There are a number of things about Kanashimi that read scum. However IMO, he also falls slightly into the newb-town category for similar reasons as Zenken.
Appears to want to vote newbs because they are not useful, regardless of their role.(#58,59 & 61): scum-points, but possibly a newb-town misunderstanding.
Takes vote of Furcolow when pressured to (#102): possible scumpoints.
Says to Furcolow “if I could I would double-vote you”(#115), despite not having his vote on at the time. He either didn’t realise he’d unvoted, or found Furcolow very scummy without feeling the need to vote him: not sure what to make of this, but reads as very perculiar.
Failed to answer questions (I mentioned this before): I give him scumpoints for this, either he was trying to keep discussion off himself and on other suspicious players, or he just didn’t read them (not reading the thread, I believe, is a scummy thing to do. Scum know all the roles so do not have to do any scumhunting, and therefore do not have to pay attention to what other players are saying as much). Also gives a general impression that he’s not reading the thread fully.
Changes his opinion about voting Furcolow. in #161 he says both “No, I don’t believe he is scum”, and (in the same post) “I believe the proper time to lynch him is now, before he causes more damage”. He claims later that we should wait until tomorrow before considering his lynch (#234). His opinion of Furcolow is hard to follow, it appears to me as though he pushes a policy lynch, then backs off when it seems more likely that Furcolow will be saved until tomorrow: Its possible that he's a newb and believes a policy lynch is in the town's best interest, but in general I give him scumpoints for this.
He began an analysis of each player but stopped half way through: a null-tell, but I’d very much like to see this completed.
Has been lurking since I said he was sitting near the top of my scumlist: likely a null-tell, but possible that he’s trying to avoid suspicion close to the deadline.
-- Being day 1 and with little to go on I'm not 100% confident, but my read of him is scum. Slight possibility of him being newb-town.


---------


For now my vote remains on el simo. If wagons form on either Kanashimi or Furcolow and an el simo lynch doesn’t seem likely, I’ll have no problem switching my vote to either of these.
I’d also consider a FrozenAeon lynch.
And because a no-lynch is

very

bad for town, if pushed I may reluctantly vote for someone else.

Since the deadline is imminent, I think everyone should say their top three lynch target.
Mine is el simo, Kanashimi, Furcolow (in that order).

[Furcolow]

ooBAZZoo IF YOU ARE NOT SCUM, WHY ARE YOU PUSHING ON A COP?
THERE IS NO REASON YOU WOULD BRING THIS BACK UP IF YOU WERE TOWN

UNVOTE
VOTE: ooBAZZoo

I AM THE COP
I AM DYING TONIGHT
GIVE ME A NIGHT IF YOU ARE NOT AN IDIOT

[Furcolow]

there is NO WAY you are going to get 2 more votes on me unless the 2 and a half people pushing me are all idiotic town

[Furcolow]

I claimed cop OVER TWO WEEKS AGO. DROP IT.

[Furcolow]

God you post a lot when it's night in my country.
@ el simo - a long day is preferable. So let's take our time in doing this. I don't think there's any way we can leave out the stunt Furcolow pulled by the end of the day, but we can still focus on getting info. If he is scum, we can always lynch him by the end of the day. If he is town, he already did the worst thing possible he could have done. So what else could he mess? He is no way an immediate danger. That's why I'd like to have a longer day. There is still room for discussion.

@ everyone - why do you think Furcolow claimed detective? Considering the existing possible setups for this game, he had a 50% chance of being counter-claimed and thus giving himself out. So why not just claim vanilla? Why would he risk so much?

This is the most important post in the re-read. There is no way in hell I would not claim vanilla town as scum. No way. No possible way. I'd rather be 1/6 people claiming townie or 1/7 (notice how i said claiming... there will be 5 or 6 townies in this scenario)

Maddie is definitely town or acting pro-town as scum due to the post above.

-- Not sure what to make of her, could be newb-town who isn’t that dedicated to the game, on the other hand, has given some reason for me to believe she’s scum. I don’t find her scummy enough to vote outright, but would vote her if needed to make a majority before deadline.

here's a way for me to take my vote off you
follow this line of thought, as I find her scummy as well

would you rather lynch someone you find halfway scummy, or someone who is a cop?
honestly, we need to majority someone. El Simo, though he might be scum, is not going to get lynched.

Where is maddie?
Where is lobstermania?
all these people are inactive
half the town is inactive, so what am I supposed to do to get a wagon? It is not like I am trying to cram a wagon down your throats, I have tried many ways to do it. I have tried an RNG, picking who I think is scummy, or simply asking you all to, but you all haven't voted at all in like a week, so this really needs to be addressed.

YOU ALL NEED TO VOTE SOMEONE OTHER THAN ME, IT DOESNT REALLY MATTER WHO IT IS

I WILL GIVE YOU SUGGESTIONS

1) I've been on this site since 2006, I've played well over 30 games and I've played every normal role.
2) No, for instance, most doctors tend to be quiet to try and avoid being night killed, or lynched even. It could also just be a matter of disinterest.
3) SC2 But seriously, my work contracted ended last Sunday so I'm now unemployed, my uni course starts in February (I'll be doing a bachelor of education) and I've spent all my money on a holiday to South Africa that I'm eagerly awaiting so I don't have much to spend on nights out with the boys or anything like that. Siiigh..
4) Meat, eggs and potatoes.

I didn't notice this, because you were talking about SC2, and as I usually skip RQS because I feel it is meaningless and not relating to mafia, but to address #3, I have been there both in the city of Cape Town and on a safari. It is a lovely place. After reading the rest of your iso up until August 30th, I started getting scummy vibes from you, but you stop when you realize you can't mislynch a cop. Maybe you wisened up as town, but perhaps you are being cautious of being associated with a mislynch on a cop and being the IC held accountable...

Well... I wish I coulda known who killed our Hermit... and why I should care, if he was a hermit, who did he bother? Gah

Vote : el simo

because I dislike Rambo.

This is the 3rd vote on el simo, so + scum points to zenken. The fact is comes on page 2 is even worse.

Unvote: el simo

. I don't see any reason for us to put him at L-2 yet, so random vote withdrawn.

This is a very protown move. Protown points to Maddie. Then she goes and casts the 3rd vote on me, turning 2 votes into a wagon. Scum points to offset her town points, but my gut is still telling me she is probably town.

@ el simo - I've got nothing against random votes. I just prefer not to put anyone in danger over something random. Now, random votes - in my book - are just to stir up discussion and they're also a little bit for fun, to break the ice and create a certain atmosphere. Past that point, if I don't have an actual reason, I don't keep my vote. I withdrew my vote because, again, imo, L-2 should be for a reason and I did not have one at that time.
At the same time, regarding Kanashimi's vote, I can understand his tendency of valuing an experienced player more. There is an argument of authority going on here, however much we may try to avoid it and be completely objective. I'm just surprised that would surprise you, el simo.

Here, she also says "L-2 should be for a reason", when she had little-to-no reason for putting me at L-2 before this point. She asked me a question about a concept scum WOULD NOT USE on day 1, and then votes me with no backing argument whatsoever "wanting answers". Very scummy.

@ Kanashimi
I have no idea :3

Vote: Furcolow

^ For voting me, with poor reasoning, but, knowing it's the first day, all reasoning is poor reasoning.

After I have started playing well on this page, casting doubt on zenken for being mafia, these two start voting me, or give reason to keep their vote on me. kanashimi and zenken attempt to get me lynched here, zenken with an omgus, and kanashimi giving no reason for keeping his vote on me. The above post I'm quoting shows both an OMGUS and scumbuddying tendencies which you may claim are newbie-friendly, but this is a newbie game.


So, based upon my re-read up until page 7, my play is scummie worthy for worst-town-play possible

town:
maddie
el simo
oobazzoo
furcolow

unsure:
lobstermania
cloudocean/mightydarkzero

feel scummy:
frozenaeon
kanashimi
zenken

[Furcolow]

vote: zenken

[ooBAZZoo]

[ninja] Furcolow - I wrote the post below in response to your posts #378,379 and 380. I looks like your attention is off me now, but I thought you'd want a reply anyway. Although I disagree with your choices, your whole town-unsure-scummy list in your last post (#381) is good, and is what we need from all the other players now. [ninja]

@furcolow - I'm willing to vote for you because your play has read scummier than the other players. Its really quite that simple.

Regarding the cop thing (which you really need to stop banging on about) I don't trust you. This is for three reasons 1) you lied about being a cop in another thread, 2) you claimed the wrong role, and 3) I generally don't trust you.

I did consider waiting for the night's events, given that, despite suspecting that you've lied, I can't actually say for definite that you are not the cop. However, after giving it thought, this would be pointless. I've tried to explain why it would be pointless above, but will do so again:
- It is likely that you will be night-killed.
- If you are night-killed and flip town then it proves me wrong about you being scum, however me not voting you incase you flip town is a circular thought. This could be applied to all players under suspicion and is consequently pointless.
- If you are NOT night-killed then there is a chance of you being scum (because scum don't NK themselves, obviously). If you therefore survive the night, and give the findings of your night action, I will not believe a word you say, and the Furcolow I found scummy D1 would have been replaced by a Furcolow who I find equally suspicious (hence, pointless).
- If you are saved by the doctor (this considering there is one), we will be back to square one, because you being protected is NOT proof of you being a cop, and I will therefore maintain my doubt of your claim, and maintain my suspicion of you being scum (another pointless eventuality).
- If scum decide not to night-kill you, its likely that they have a roleblocker, and in which case you being cop has no bearing on the situation, and can be disregarded.

Hence: If you are not scum, when I follow through the logical outcomes, not voting you on the chance that your claim was true is totally pointless.
This being said, you are not actually my top lynch target.

p.s. I don't take kindly to being referred to as an idiot, thanks

[el simo]

Bazz your first two points are nonsense. Your last two points are the same as the third.

If you kill him today you are robbing us of vital information tonight. Want to lynch him, fine, lets do it tomorrow, I find him scummy as well, but lets not do it without letting him live through the night. The potential for lots of very important information is there and lynching him today is robbing us of that opportunity.

[Kanashimi]

Will post soon. I have to get off my computer now. I have formulated half of my posts.

[Furcolow]

we need me alive to find out what format it is
plus if theres a medic the medic can save the detective until the roleblocker can be neutralized
this is all basic mafia, ooBAZZoo. Plus, it's not what you think you know, it's what you can convince everyone else.
You may be willing to vote for me, but are 5 people? are 3 townies willing to vote for a cop? or a medic... who knows if we even have a protective role at all. All I know is I'm the detective, and I'm going to henceforth call it the detective. Do not detract from my claim because I said "this smells like shit" instead of "this smells like poop". You're arguing over word choice, get over it. I come from a site where it is called a DT, not a cop.

You are criticizing my play, saying "you don't trust me", when I am the only person in the thread who has outed their role publicly in a truthful manner. What is not to trust about that? If you don't like me, fine, get over it and scumhunt someone else and ignore me.

You saying "you're just going to be killed anyways" is bullshit. WHY AM I GOING TO BE KILLED? BECAUSE TOWNIES CAN'T INVESTIGATE LIKE DETECTIVES.

[Furcolow]

also, in the game I claimed cop, how many posts did I make over one or two lines?
how many lists did I make?
how much effort did I put into it?

Not nearly as many as when I'm a detective.
Learn how to read a player.

[Furcolow]

and i mean in the game i claimed detective when i was actually scum... which was in an unknown setup.... and i knew the mafia kill was poisoning which implied a role stronger than a detective (there was, a vig). In F11 there is no way I would claim anything other than a townie as scum. No way. You would have to get a court order for me to claim detective as scum.

[MightyDarkZero]

MightyDarkZero spent a long time dilly-dallying before posting anything significant: probably a null-tell though, he could have just been busy.
When he does start posting, he doesn’t bring any new arguments to the table, only focuses on the issues others are concerned with: not sure what to make of this, could be scum trying to avoid controversy, but this is only speculation.

I actually have been pretty busy lately. In fact, I'm posting this while I'm at work. Because of that, I haven't had the time to pick apart everyone's posts. I figured the least I could do was state my opinion on what's been said.

[Furcolow]

The least you could do would be voting someone who isn't claiming cop so we can get a lynch because a random lynch > a no lynch statistically for town

...duh

[Maddie]

Got internet tonight. Will definitely be posting tomorrow. I haven't even had time to unpack yet and it feels great. I'll see you soon. Especially if you are in the Uk

[sykedoc]

Vote Count:
Zenken- 1 - el simo
Furcolow- 2 - Zenken, FrozenAeon
el simo- 1- ooBAZZoo
ooBAZZoo- 1- Furcolow


Not Voting:
MightyDarkZero
Kanashimi
Maddie
lobstermania

9 alive, 5 to lynch

Furcolow's vote on Zenken doesn't count as there was no unvote.

Mass Prod is being sent as the deadline is tomorrow at midnight.

[FrozenAeon]

Unvote: Furcolow

[FrozenAeon]

What are your thoughts on Zenken?

I don't really like how Zenken put votes on people for almost nothing. It seems like he isn't helping us with the game all that much and I find many of his posts confusing, kinda like Furcolow's posts. They just don't make sense to me. His case on Furcolow is basically "You're probably our cop, but you're annoying me and I want you gone". His last post was pretty bad in my opinion. He gave a weak reason to vote you and then tried to rush us into voting Furcolow.

What do you think of Bazz and MDZ's case on me?

I think you're just doing your job as IC as best you can, and their cases don't add up to me. I don't believe you're scum just because you've assumed a leader role. I read a lot of the thread again, and to me it seems like you're trying to protect Furcolow because nobody has counter claimed his cop claim, and not because you're a mafia with him. I believe they would have good points except you're teaching us how to play as well as playing with us. I don't believe you're scum anymore, and I feel a little dumb for accusing you.

P.S. I want to thank you for being an IC. From what I've read, the newbie queue has limited volenteers to help introduce us to the game. I really appriciate it

What do you think about the Furcolow wagon?.

I was on the Furcolow wagon for a while. Now I'm not so sure. I think some of the people on it just don't understand why we shouldn't vote him out. I mean, he is an unclaimed cop, and voting him out might not be too good for us down the road. We can all agree not to just listen to him, can't we? Also, I would like for us to get off of his back enough to consider some other positions. Maybe we should take a look at Zenken.

[Kanashimi]

Damn, the deadline is already tomorrow. I guess i'll have to say everything i have to say in about 20 minutes, because that's all the time i got. I got a really really cool post ready, but i deleted it, so i'm stating it all over again.

[el simo]

Thanks FrozenAeon, talking some sense. Now you just need to start doing it with out us pestering you to!

I'm not moving my vote from Zenken. I think he is our best option going into this deadline.

I hope you realize, that the person with the most votes at deadline will be lynched,

[Furcolow]

I am not going to be posting much in this thread. I'll be reading, so if you all want my opinion, you all may ask.

I will let you all scumhunt. I have given you all my lists, my vote, and my energy. I am going to withdraw as much energy as I've been putting out because until the night, if we don't have a medic... why should I? I'm either going to die, or we'll either get an investigation or know we have a medic.

Don't just roll over to anyone, though, look in your hearts to find the scum.

[Furcolow]

UNVOTE

Sorry

, it's been a busy weekend for me. I'm going to read-though and post some deeper thoughts tonight.

Sorry

folks. I've been traveling the past few days and haven't had as much time to compile my thoughts into a post. I will re-read tonight when I get home.
My apologies.

Sorry

all. I got side-tracked by my real life and figured I had been replaced here. As long as I'm still included, give me an hour and I'll re-read the thread.

Again,

my apologizes

for vanishing for a week.

The other 2 posts he has past the RQS are all fluff
Here is is lynch for today

vote: lobstermania

[Furcolow]

im willing to put mightdarkzero into semi town at this point, too