Mini 1036 - DEFCON Mafia - Over

[Calcifer]

Why do I have to full claim for your faulty logic? I'll point it out for you, but it'll pretty much the same as full claiming if I have to explain it. (Really, check it out again.)

[Enigma]

I have already claimed for him twice... Wow tunnel syndrome much? Read.

[SpyreX]

HURF DURF CHUCKEHEAD

Radar != you being scum. If that's the case then go ahead and LET HIM SAY IT and explain how "ohh he has an active action" is "I have sweet ass role related information"

Good lord

[SpyreX]

AND GOOD LORD YES I SAID FULL CLAIM SAYING YOU MAY HAVE TO FULL CLAIM TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF AND WONDERING IF I AM OK WITH THAT IS BEING OBTUSE TO THE POINT OF FFSdfFSfkdnfJ####

:explode:

[RedCoyote]

I don't see the disconnect and don't see why it's scummy.

Well, you're playing it very risky if you think mafia kills are more beneficial to us than not simply because of the terrorist state. I don't agree with that approach at all. I mean, I acknowledge it, and I guess it's a valid concern, but the odds are so slanted against your position that it's really coming off more as you trying to justify something after the fact.

---

Oh hai Redcoyote's massive wall of null/not-Town #249! I missed you~

*psst* ...don't tell Spyrex, I think he's still buying it.

(Hi, btw. )

---

Your role cannot possibly be the reasoning behind a four-person scumlist on Day 2.

This. Enigma is doing this "do as I say, not as I do" approach when it comes to power roles. He said earlier that his suspicions were coming partially from his night action, which is effectively exactly what Andrius did, and now he's getting defensive when Zhero calls him on it. I don't like it. Enigma should know, after berating Andrius so hard especially, that a power role is perfectly capable of bring their knowledge into the game without the need to qualify it with, "oh, yeah, it's role-based knowledge".

It would be different if he was being pressured into talking, but that isn't the case here. It's like he's not trying to get his hands dirty.

---

Now, I'm up to Enigma's complete overreaction and subsequent vote on Zhero for rolefishing, of all things. Oh god. This sloppy mess. This is a goddamned

sloppy uninteresting

mess, and I'm sick of reading about it.

This. This. This.

We're focusing far too much on these powers and not enough on actual scumhunting. This is letting players like Doombunny, Faraday, and Hindu kind of skirt by, and it's letting players like Spyrex completely lose sight of the bigger picture.

@

RedCoyote

: What's your read on the Hinduragi slot?

I really thought he had a strong first day, but he's been kind of absent from anything going on today. Well, it gives me another suspect at least.

Oh, wait, and I think I may be able to free up a vote. Calcifer seems a little more intent on clarification now, so I think I'll back off like Enigma did.

Unvote

;

vote: Hinduragi

[Calcifer]

Vote: Hindu

This guy is my top suspect since my reread(Parse my mega-wall, you'll see.). A wagon on him would be a swell idea.

[AlmasterGM]

[Day 2, Vote Count 2 - Technologik]

"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."  --Bertrand Russell




[Votes]

AurorusVox

(0)

Calcifer

(2) - SpyreX, Zhero

Doombunny9

(3) - SocioPath, AurorusVox, Percy

Enigma

(0)

Faraday

(0)

Hinduragi

(2) - RedCoyote, Calcifer

Percy

(0)

RedCoyote

(0)

SocioPath

(1) - Doombunny9

SpyreX

(0)

Zhero

(1) - Enigma

Not Voting

(2) - Hinduragi, Faraday

[Activity]

The deadline is 27 September at 11pm EST.

Hinduragi

has been prodded.

[Faraday]

Just realised. Andrius could be feigning ignorance to the rules. He seems to understand the DEFCON issue in that first post, but then seems to misunderstand it in the second. Something to bare in mind about the whole "ability picking" issue. Faraday, what do you make of that, seeing as Andrius' ignorance of the rules was your main reason for finding him townie.

Meant to respond to this ages ago. It doesn't really change my mind, as I think everyone understood the DEFCON issue as it's really clear in the OP even on skimming alone. Actually the recent Andy claim thing makes me go back and think of something though so let me brb and see if that goes anywhere.

[Faraday]

DONT SAY IF YOU TRIED FOR THE SUB OR NOT. ONLY SAY IF YOU HAVE IT OR NOT.
BY SAYING YOU TRIED/ DIDNT TRY THE SCUM WILL KNOW IF YOU HAVE OFFENSIVE/DEFENSIVE TROOPS AND THE ROLES YOU COULD HAVE DUE TO THAT.

Just wanted to make that clear. lol

I still think this looks pretty genuine.

[Faraday]

I'm up for a massclaim. Outing PR's in this game isn't a massive concern of mine, actually.

[Faraday]

SpyreX is making me nervous. He's not obvtown like usual. THIS BETTER NOT BE ANOTHER RAPTURE MAFIA.

Vote Zhero

[AurorusVox]

Since massclaim seems to be on the agenda at the moment, and since I may or may not have accidentally put the idea in peoples' minds earlier, I want to respond to this post:

This is borderline, AV. Maybe later in the game, much later in the game, but you're talking about, essentially, posting your entire list of choices (up to and including the sub choice).

I wasn't initially suggesting we did it today (I'd have said save it for LYLO or counter-claims) but I've had a while to think about it, and having read some of the other posts on the matter, I don't really think it'd work now or later. All the sub-scum will do is claim they got their ability as their first preference, and we'd help scum more than town.

---

The Enigma-Andrius/Hydra exchange is interesting. Not quite sure what to make of it; I think Andrius was in the wrong, but I'm getting a small but decidedly bad vibe from Enigma. Almost as though he's not angry at being mistakenly outed as scum, but angry at being outed by a PR making a mistake. They're both under a cloud of "unsure" at the moment for me.

---

I'm still happy with my Doomsbunny vote. I've just finished a scumgame with Hindu so I'll ISO him and see if there's anything that pushes me either way. On that note:

So I'm scum because I ignored your case on Hindu? Even though I said that it was one of the few posts I actually liked?

So what do you make of Hindu?

[SpyreX]

I'm TRYING here.

It should be pretty clear I'm not letting this drop.

So if I'm gonna go bigger picture I need some help. The easy way doesn't work so use the MYSTIC POWER OF ROPOS to get him to do what has to be done.

[AurorusVox]

I'm TRYING here.

It should be pretty clear I'm not letting this drop.

So if I'm gonna go bigger picture I need some help. The easy way doesn't work so use the MYSTIC POWER OF ROPOS to get him to do what has to be done.

I agree that we shouldn't be have to worry about theorising Andrius'* role through Enigma's speculation, and that it certainly does need clearing up at some point. I understand that if he doesn't say it now, he'll be able to change his story later, which is bad, and defuses some of the pressure he's under; I also understand that he's given you reasons to suspect him and you want them answered. BUT if he changes his story later it will still need to mesh with what he's said and done earlier; and the suspicious acts will be equally suspicious later down the line. So it's not the end of the world if he holds off fully claiming while we look at other things.

[AurorusVox]

*I was meant to include a footnote saying that I can't remember the Hydra's name but assume I'm referring to both of you if the context makes sense ><"

[Doombunny9]

So what do you make of Hindu?

Meh, neutral reads mostly. He's never really said anything that stuck out to me that was either townie or scummy if anything I'd say he's scum because he may just be trying to stay under the radar and for lurking but its not really all that much to go on.

Also, Spyre seems WAY too concerned about Andrius's role rather than scumhunting.

[Hinduragi]

You seem adverse to people being labeled as town (lowering you mislynch pool?), and overstate people giving town reads as them being declared 'confirmed town'. Considering the benefits of declaring town reads (as mentioned already in thread), your resistance looks bad.

...So how does this make him scum? I don't get why you would use this as a reason for voting.

Andrius, still disappointed in your soft claim + breadcrumbing. Also, VV, since you're hydra'ing, I'm pretty sure the initial "gut" vote later changed to "flavor" later changed to "role-related info" thing was definitely looking like an excuse to keep his vote where it was.

Hinduragi #71: Don't like. His post is pretty obv, and is filler.

Ok. And this is scummy how? Also, how is it filler? I was opening up an idea because it wasn't Day 1 so I wasn't sure what to do.

Hinduragi #75: Major dislike. He's pertaining to Percy's #55 wherein Percy asks a question about useless abilities and says he already sent in his preferences. What's wrong with asking a question about useless abilities even if you've already sent your preferences?

Looked like he was trying to appear as though he was contributing. I didn't see any other motive about it and he never responded to that post either.

Hindu #108: Man this guy is on a roll. Instantaneously agreeing to the submarine claim without prior discussion since they can lie about it anyway? Check!

So you think more info is bad? Going by the way you think this is scummy, that would mean Elscouta would be scummier. Oh wait, he flipped town.

Hindu #156: This guy cruises into probScum territory.

Nice reasoning.

Hindu #209: Okay, what the fuck at the @Enigma tidbit. But he's already scum so w/e. Seriously, what do scum have to gain with feigning ignorance? Nothing. They feign ignorance once they've been called on it, but they don't feign ignorance from page 1 onwards.

Enigma, or me? Also, what? Scum feign ignorance if they feel it can help them win the game, as is the motive for all their actions. Anyways, how does this make me scummy?

Hindu #226-#227: Possible daytalk shenanigans.

Daytalk shenanigans?

Vote: Hinduragi The guy who I'm most confident is scum.

You definitely can't be very confident.

I'd like everyone to look at the above reasoning for Calcifer/Andrius/VV's vote. Notice the vagueness of the reasoning he used to vote. He calls me probscum but never said why.

Then there is the fact that Hindu isn't saying shit, so there is no point in focusing on him at this point.

Hinduragi (2) - RedCoyote, Calcifer

Win.

In other news: Zhero, Hindu, Doombunny9 are all scumzzz. So many scum, so little time.

Vote: Zhero

What? All of a sudden you're not so confident?

Vote: Hindu

This guy is my top suspect since my reread(Parse my mega-wall, you'll see.). A wagon on him would be a swell idea.

What great reasoning do you have this time?

I've just finished a scumgame with Hindu so I'll ISO him and see if there's anything that pushes me either way.

Tbh, I don't think that'll work. I play mini's alot different than newbie's.

I really thought he had a strong first day, but he's been kind of absent from anything going on today. Well, it gives me another suspect at least.

LOL. So I'm being voted...because I wasn't here?

Also, I'm against the massclaim right now. Too much WIFOM, especially if we do it Enigma's way where we only give out preference lists, though part of mine is already out there.

I'm V/LA until late Sunday or Monday. I'm going to come back then with an actual good post that has analysis. Defending myself and commenting on major issues took up most of my time when I was catching up.

(Noted. --AGM)

[SpyreX]

Also, Spyre seems WAY too concerned about Andrius's role rather than scumhunting.

HURF HURF

[Calcifer]

Andrius, still disappointed in your soft claim + breadcrumbing. Also, VV, since you're hydra'ing, I'm pretty sure the initial "gut" vote later changed to "flavor" later changed to "role-related info" thing was definitely looking like an excuse to keep his vote where it was.

If we were scum(and have daytalk), we'd(well, He'd.) make up a damn better excuse than that.

Ok. And this is scummy how? Also, how is it filler? I was opening up an idea because it wasn't Day 1 so I wasn't sure what to do.

Filler = 'making a post for the sake of posting', which is scummy in it's own way. Everyone probably knew what you said, and you're just saying it to appear helpful(and failing) FMPOV.

Looked like he was trying to appear as though he was contributing. I didn't see any other motive about it and he never responded to that post either.

Which was exactly what I'm accusing you in #71. Also, you're making someone look suspicious for something that isn't inherently suspicious. Scummy.

So you think more info is bad? Going by the way you think this is scummy, that would mean Elscouta would be scummier. Oh wait, he flipped town.

More info is bad if scum gets info. True, we now know that scum probably has the sub w/c is good. But if Town GOT the sub, and the sub claimed, They now know who to NK. It's good NOW since we got that info but since Town had a higher chance of getting the sub when nobody knew, it was inherently bad at that time.

Also, it's easy to steamroll the momentum of that agreement by just blindly agreeing, which is what happened.

Also also, just because Els flipped Town doesn't mean he's not scummy. Town can be scummy too~

Nice reasoning.

My accusation of your #156 is similar to #71: Filler posting. More filler posts = scummier

Enigma, or me? Also, what? Scum feign ignorance if they feel it can help them win the game, as is the motive for all their actions. Anyways, how does this make me scummy?

I was pertaining to your @Enigma tidbit at that post. You were accussing Andy as scum feigning ignorance. Which is why I asked 'What do scum have to gain by feigning ignorance?'

Daytalk shenanigans?

If you were scum, that little manuever was possible with daytalk. Of course, at this point I'm convinced you're scum so I can call out you're possible scum moves.

You definitely can't be very confident.

I'd like everyone to look at the above reasoning for Calcifer/Andrius/VV's vote. Notice the vagueness of the reasoning he used to vote. He calls me probscum but never said why.

Yes I am.

My mega-post wasn't enough for you? Really, if you read my posts along the thread, it's pretty damn good reasoning. I like the second sentence though! Real scummy, misreping my attacks on you by saying it wasn't reasoned when it was DAMN WELL REASONED.

[RedCoyote]

LOL. So I'm being voted...because I wasn't here?

Yeah. It's called active lurking, and you're a natural.

[AlmasterGM]

[DEFCON Mafia - Day 2, DEFCON 2 - Game Event]

[NORAD SYSTEM] Unidentified transmission detected.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Capturing...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Audio file captured.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Descrambling...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Descramble complete.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Cleaning up file...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Cleanup complete.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Playing...

ZHERO USE THE METHOD IN POST 18. IT ISN'T THAT HARD. IF THIS POST IS FUCKING DROPPED I'M GOING TO BE PISSED BUT YOU ARE BEING A DUMBASS SO IT'S NOT REALLY A BIG LOSS. SERIOUSLY, IT ISN'T THAT HARD. IT'S BEEN TWO WEEKS, FIGURE IT OUT AND TELL US YOUR POWER.

[NORAD SYSTEM] Playback complete.

[Doombunny9]

HURF HURF

I meant it. For a while now you've been doing nothing more than "Andrius/Calcifier needs to fullclaim nao etc. etc. fluff fluff fluff" instead of actual scumhunting. I'm begining to wonder if Socio is contagious (JK XD). I couldn't care less about whether or not you're going to drop it or not or how much you want calcifier to claim but I do care when his role makes you lose sight of whats going on. To me its pretty obvious Calcifier isn't going to claim for the time being so contribute moar.

Also, on the revealed post I'm having some doubts about the legitimacy about it. As Enigma pointed out it could have easily been spammed and if it were legit and maf weren't dumbasses they'd have known that the message could have been intercepted so they wouldn't use actual names. Finally, if I were scum the first thing I would do if town could intercept messages would be to make a code to talk in or something of that nature. I'ma write this off as a null-tell for now.

[RedCoyote]

Uh, Zhero?

Doombunny is probably right, but I still want to hear what Zhero has to say about this.

[SocioPath]

Then there is the fact that Hindu isn't saying shit, so there is no point in focusing on him at this point.

Hinduragi (2) - RedCoyote, Calcifer

Win.

Oh look, now you ARE saying shit, so now there IS a point.

Unvote
Vote: Hindu

[Calcifer]

[DEFCON Mafia - Day 2, DEFCON 2 - Game Event]

[NORAD SYSTEM] Unidentified transmission detected.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Capturing...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Audio file captured.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Descrambling...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Descramble complete.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Cleaning up file...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Cleanup complete.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Playing...

ZHERO USE THE METHOD IN POST 18. IT ISN'T THAT HARD. IF THIS POST IS FUCKING DROPPED I'M GOING TO BE PISSED BUT YOU ARE BEING A DUMBASS SO IT'S NOT REALLY A BIG LOSS. SERIOUSLY, IT ISN'T THAT HARD. IT'S BEEN TWO WEEKS, FIGURE IT OUT AND TELL US YOUR POWER.

[NORAD SYSTEM] Playback complete.

Well. We learned 2 things from this:
1) Zhero is scum.
2) CAPS LOCK PLAYER is scum. Either SpyreX or Sociopath, probably.
3) WIFOM?