Cereal Killers - Mini 1027 (Game Over)

[Kirbyoshi]

Ugh. Fine.

I'm the Sane Gun Owner. Basically the same as Paranoid Gun Owner, but I only kill scum. That's why I didn't wanna claim: I wanted to save my role for when scum died during the Night. Now that they know, they're not gonna target me, and therefore I can't kill them.

[SpyreX]

....

Holy hell in a handbasket.

I haven't even HEARD of a role like that and, needless to say, that throws some business out of whack.

[Kirbyoshi]

What business of yours does it disturb?

[SpyreX]

My thoughts on the setup, mostly.

Lemme parse and get back to you.

[Benmage]

A sane gun owner sounds broken. We gonna believe that and a vig? With the other PRs revealed, no thx. Xscorp should still be today's lynch. Ill got hip-hop to avoid a no lynch cause that's fucking stupid.

[Equinox]

I forgot about this game. -_-

You guys are an awfully active bunch.

Kirbyoshi and SpyreX: WHY DID YOU LOT HAVE TO GO AND DO THAT, HUH? Now my plan has fallen apart completely.

Sigh. Now what... I'm actually really tempted to just lynch at this point, but MyLo is Chucky and all that.

This whole thing about hiphop is so out-of-whack that I don't know what to think anymore. I blame this on jenniwren.

hiphop: What made you take an action last night, and why did you choose to protect yourself?
jenniwren: Point out your softclaims from Day 1, please.

Down and /out.

[SpyreX]

WELL IF I WAS RIGHT ABOUT KIRBY HIM OUTTING HIMSELF WAS BETTER.

As it is I'm still stuck on that role. But, I keep coming back to 'no way in hell would scum claim that one'.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Really sorry about not posting yesterday. I was about to make a big post yesterday, but it got deleted and I had to make a post for another game I'm dying in soon. Rebuttal to jenniwren's case against me, analysis, etc. will come later today.

[jenniwren]

Equinox:

You're going to have to do better than insinuating that everyone who isn't on your wagon is scum and that everyone who is on your wagon is town. I for one am not afraid of that threat because I know you'll be proven wrong if you get me lynched, and then hopefully people who "see what you see" will start wondering what exactly it is that you are actually seeing before it's too late for the town. I made a bonehead mistake when I fired off a speculation about the possible identity of an entire scum team instead of just focusing on you, and if that results in my being lynched, at the very least I know my flip will turn the suspicion back where it needs to be.

I found it odd that you would specifically bring up masons instead of just saying there was a three-person town group, which gave me the feeling that you had some sort of knowledge of a mason group. If that was the case, you would be setting yourself at a risk of being NK'd and no town player wants a power role to be killed off.

Better rolefishing, but still rolefishing. Think about what you would say if someone said this to you no mater what your town-aligned role might be (anything from a PR to a VT). There is no way to respond to that. Let's just leave it at this:

Lynching me won't help town win-con, and scum already know that. The only thing my death would achieve would be to help town eliminate a possible scum suspect, though at the same time it will reduce the number of town-aligned players.

That's why I don't get why you're not paying attention to what Charter is doing.

@XScorp
How about this:

Charter pushes my lynch and I flip town

. Who's the scum now? We can play this game all day. I'd rather not.

I also really like the protective percentage qualifiers at the end of your first sentence here. When, for example,

you succeed in herding the rest of the town into lynching me and I flip town

, you've protected yourself by saying there's still a chance you're wrong.
<snip>
I also know he "claims" to be scumhunting me, but I'm not scum, so I know how bogus his accusations are. You can huff and puff and blow as much as you want, but that won't change my alignment.

I think there are a lot of people who have done scummy things, and right now, the only person whose alignment I know for sure is my own.

<snip massive intro>
a) I'm going to flip town (something you've always known because you are scum), and my flipping town will definitely implicate you in my lynch; <snip>

If you are town, then start acting like it because that means we're on the same side.

Note: this sanctimonious little post of mine was probably the biggest kick in the teeth after the flip. I was so very certain I was right that at this point, nothing would have made me change my vote. I felt pretty bad about being so snotty to charter, too.

[Equinox]

jenniwren, why did you feel the need to crumb your alignment? Those posts are all in the domain of "I am town!" and don't point to anything specific.

SpyreX, how's the parsing coming along?

Super Smash Bros. Fan, perhaps throw in more than a rebuttal when you come back?

hiphop, Kirbyoshi, XScorpion, top suspects please.

None of this "I don't want to give scum information" BS, please. I'm pretty sure scum know who to target.

Additional

demand

request: XScorpion, you'd better answer before the deadline hits.

[Equinox]

EBWOP:

Not that I think it'll happen, but --

Don't hammer No Lynch until XScorpion answers satisfactorily, please.

We also have

plenty of time

before the deadline hits.

[jenniwren]

It's not breadcrumbing so much as softclaiming, which I did because I was being accused of being scum and came pretty close to being lynched (and charter and Spyrex were pushing hard for that outcome). By softclaiming I mean that I never flat out said I was Vanilla, but that I just implied it a lot; i.e., all the times I said my lynch was only good for information and when I answered SSBF about the mason group (how I couldn't answer no matter what my role was). I never claimed VT outright, just hinted at it.

[XScorpion]

WTF is this sane gun owner shit
There's no way in hell that's a role.
@equinox: Kirby is definite top pick for scum, Benmage second with his "im so pro-town, you should all sheep me and do everything I say"

[Kirbyoshi]

ITT XScorp is scared scum.

[XScorpion]

Explain your motivation behind claiming, please.

[Equinox]

Explain your motivation behind claiming, please.

Are you seriously asking this question?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Part I: Jenniwren's Case Against Me

Read posts 127, 131, and 157. He kept promising a long case against me until the end of the day rolled around (post 183 was the last time), and finally votes Charter after saying I am town (post 317).

First off, I promised a response, not a large case against you. Those are different. Secondly, I believe you are town because I believe my Day 1 case on you didn't hold water so I don't see the purpose of persuding a person I think is town.

SSBF reappeared after the charter hammer to give advice for the vig (post 336). At one point, in 317, SSBF tells XScorp to vig charter if I flip town. However, he never tells XScorp to vig me if Charter flips town. That's been bothering me since Charter's flip.

I never asked XScorpion to vig you because regardless of charter's flip, I had a town read on you and your scum hunting on charter looks genuine to me instead of scum looking to cash in on a lynch to look good.

Notice how similar the hiphop's quote in your post 572 is to what SSBF said in 317. How all of a sudden I am obv-town? They don't explain that other than saying I am just new and scumhunting the best that I can.

Reading the hiphop's quote in SpyreX's #572, I do not see how my #317 is similar to what hiphop said. In the quote, hiphop said that he agreed that flavor should not affect the outcome of the game. In my #317, I talked about my dislike of your wagon, why I think you're town, and that a no lynch Day 1 would suck and that I would be around to switch votes if necessary.

c) SSBF and hiphop were directing the vig kills and at that point I was thinking maybe they weren't such the nice guys after all

The reason why I attempted to direct XScorpion's kill is because I want town to be in the best shape possible coming out of the night. That way, had XScorpion's "vig" gone through, we may have very well hit scum.

---

Part II: Respoding to posts:

Here's my reasoning to oppose a no lynch. A strong town voice will be killed. Making it easier for the scum to swindle the game in lylo.

While losing a strong town is certainly a set-back, mislynching today will almost certainly result in a scum win and we cannot risk that happening. No Lynch is the best course of action because the likelihood of us hitting scum will be greater then.

Additionally, there's a huge piece of moddery that plays into the ruleset and both of them being replaced instead of dead - assuming a 3 person scumteam (which I am) at that point both of them being modkilled would have been game.

I disagree that ConfidAnon/Sawyer nearly facing a mod-kill is alignment-indicated. Even if both were mod-killed and flipped town, assuming a three-scum set-up, we would be in an 5 town - 3 scums situation which would not result in a scum win.

Nope. No way with the way this game was going both would be rolling busses on him. Additionally, I'm thinking its a 1 PR (maaybe 2 but probably not) 2 goon setup and that it is not a one-shot. (3/12 with a town dispersal makes sense) - which means XS's D1 claim holds a lot more weight than others.

I honestly do not see how XScorpion's claim hold water. To me, there are more evidence disproving his role claim and making his scum alignment being that more likely:

1. There was only one kill on Night 1 and Night 2. If there was two kill on either Night 1 or Night 2 (Not both), then I wouldn't be advocating for his lynch tomorrow (Because I do believe we should No Lynch today) and have him as a top lynch candidate, because that would at least prove a second killing role was out there and would be evidence that XScorpion is not scum. But due to a lack of a second kill on a Night, I believe he is scum.

2. He claim to use his one-shot vig on xvart: I don't see a town vig (Especially not a one-shot town vig) killing one of the most valueable players in the game who made strong scum hunting effort and was on many people's town list is a good idea for a town vig. XScorpion's reason? His hammer on Robocopter87. I don't see how that hammer was scummy. He was hammering a person he heavily suspected and it was litterally hours away from the deadline. This further supports my theory that xvart wasn't a vig kill, but a mafia kill.

Also, not seeing how scum team role speculation is going to convince me that XScorpion is town.

---

III: Current thoughts on players:

First off, these are the remaining players:

Benmage

- Possible Scum

hiphop

- Neutral

jenniwren

- Town

Kirbyoshi

- Scum

Equinox

- Town

SpyreX

- Possible Scum

Super Smash Bros. Fan

- Town

XScorpion

- Scum

hiphop's play looked very town to me Day 1 and Day 2 with him scum hunting a lot, being outspoken about his opinions, etc. However, I am starting to doubt hiphop's alignment. SpyreX's #572, he brings up a couple of good points that point toward hiphop scum. One was that his flavor claim affects the game and the other one was that nurse is a passive role. These reasons make sense to me and open up the possibility of hiphop-scum, but I am still undecided on him.

ConfidAnon did next to nothing in this game with his only contributation being his unfinished catch-up post, which had some parrots in it so he was neutral-scummy to me. Benmage's Day 2 play gave me a town vibe from him thought, but I do find his Day 3 play questionable. His "I'm 100% confirmed town" stances is scummy because there is no way to prove a Vanilla Townie claim or the person's alignment. I also don't like his suggestion that we should lynch today either.* A scum wants to achieve a quick victory as soon as possible and the best way to achieve that is by lynching today instead of us waiting until tomorrow in where we have a better chance of finding scums. If he is a Vanilla Townie, then what is already a big risk to take will be even bigger today. Those two things put the slot down as a possible scum.

^{*: Yes I understand that there are other people voting, but I find Benmage's proposal and how he approached it the lynch today idea to be the one that stands out the most, plus his reasons for lynching are not very good.}

While I did think jenniwren's Day 1 play was very pro-town, I will agree with SpyreX that she most certainly slacked off big time Day 2. I didn't like how she changed her play style so sharply. Day 1, she was aggressive, confident, and attacked her suspects with mostly good cases. Day 2, she took a mostly casual approach to the situation and didn't contribute nearly as much. However, jenniwren's Day 1 play is enough to give me a slight town read on her.

Kirbyoshi's play has been neutral to me throughout most of this game. He contributes and makes some good points, but not spectactularly scummy to me. However, I find his Sane Gun Owner claim to be completely out of this world and it makes no sense to me. It also doesn't give me good vibes about him. I wouldn't mind a Kirbyoshi's lynch tomorrow.

Day 2, SpyreX was my second lynch candidate and the majority of his case on me is weak and I have noticed some things that bother me about him. However, I am willing to give his claim the benefit of a doubt and I do believe it more then some others claims out there *coughcough XScorpion/Kirbyoshi coughcough*. Still suspicious of him, although not as much.

Equinox's play indicates town to me. Sawyer was a slight town read, but Equinox's play solidfy that town read. I like how he actively looks for scums and observe the situation very well. The majority of his posts also sounds genuine to me and town-like.

And of course you already know why I think XScorpion is the most likely scum.

With that being said, I don't think Equinox is scum and to me, jenniwren is more likely town then scum. So I'm looking at these for the remaining scums:

{XScorpion, Kirbyoshi, Benmage, SpyreX, hiphop}

I will be voting for a No Lynch tomorrow (By tomorrow I mean Sunday). After Saturday, we probably have enough to No Lynch and then lynch scum tomorrow. Not voting now to prevent scums from cutting off discussions.

[XScorpion]

Explain your motivation behind claiming, please.

Are you seriously asking this question?

Pretend for a second YOU were this supposed 'sane gun owner.' Would you claim?
You can bet your ass I wouldn't. Unless I was being threatened with lynch, I would refuse to claim all game.

[hiphop]

can't post now, will tomorrow.

[Benmage]

I swear if someone of these people flip town I am going to strongly try avoiding you people in games.

I am not voting no lynch.

[Equinox]

Don't worry, Benmage. You'll be around tomorrow to herd the flock.

(I'll address the rest later.)

[Equinox]

Yay for double posting.

I have a question, Benmage. You're confident enough about XScorpion to bet an entire game on his lynch... yet why did you say you would vote hiphop "to avoid No Lynch"?

<_<

[jenniwren]

He claim to use his one-shot vig on xvart: I don't see a town vig (Especially not a one-shot town vig) killing one of the most valueable players in the game who made strong scum hunting effort and was on many people's town list is a good idea for a town vig. XScorpion's reason? His hammer on Robocopter87. I don't see how that hammer was scummy. He was hammering a person he heavily suspected and it was litterally hours away from the deadline. This further supports my theory that xvart wasn't a vig kill, but a mafia kill.

Good point.

unvote

[Benmage]

Yay for double posting.

I have a question, Benmage. You're confident enough about XScorpion to bet an entire game on his lynch... yet why did you say you would vote hiphop "to avoid No Lynch"?

<_<

He's in my, at the moment, believed scum team.

[Equinox]

I'm torn again, town.

I have a very strong suspicion of who is going to get NKed tonight, so doing a No Lynch today is going to deny town information. My plan at first was to have scum choose among all the role claims and help me narrow it down, but recent posts have shattered whatever chance that gambit had. Tonight, it's going to be the most pro-town player who dies and not simply the guy with the most dangerous role.

Therefore, lynching someone today appears to be the best option. The only problem is that, for various reasons, I'm not confident enough on any of my scum reads to bet an entire game during MyLo on them; however, I know for certain that Night 3 is not going to help make this decision any easier.

UNVOTE:

The thing that is giving me so much trouble about this game is that we're split on

just about everything

. For the life of this town, we can't agree on anything. Every single living player in this game has two groups either supporting or opposing their lynch. We can't agree on whether or not a massclaim was a good idea, even when the ball was already rolling. We can't even decide whether or not to lynch. Damn.

Scum are doing a wonderful job of running a "Good Cop, Bad Cop" game here.

I really hate the dynamics in play...

I'm going to draw up a diagram of all the finger-pointing and then get back to this. I was going to write up a post about it, but then my head just spun on how to organize it that I figured I should just screw it.