Cereal Killers - Mini 1027 (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Hey, jenniwren...

You unvoted XScorpion after hiphop claimed.
You unvoted hiphop after someone mentioned XScorpion's claim.

Are you having trouble remembering which scumbag you're bussing?

[jenniwren]

I'm leaning for No Lynch at the moment.

[Equinox]

That doesn't answer the question.

[jenniwren]

I'm not bussing either of them because I'm not scum. I'm as torn about this as you seem to be.

[Equinox]

Then explain the unvoting behavior. You're unvoting people for reasons that don't apply to them but to a different player.

[Equinox]

This should've been an EBWOP, but it's just a new post now.

Pretend for a second YOU were this supposed 'sane gun owner.' Would you claim?
You can bet your ass I wouldn't. Unless I was being threatened with lynch, I would refuse to claim all game.

Kirbyoshi claimed under pressure from SpyreX. The thing I'm hung up on is how off the wall the claim is. Like SpyreX, I have never seen a sane gun owner... It's a pretty weird role for scum to claim. I realize this thought is itself a logical fallacy, but I can't help wondering who would think that up as a fake claim. Kirbyoshi, apparently.

And then we have this, which bouncy.bouncy posted in the Setup Reviewers thread on July 20, shortly after he did his /in to mod in the Mini Theme Queue on July 19:

No new mechanics or weird roles.

bouncy.bouncy's other requests were either irrelevant or scrapped, so I'm pretty sure this refers to our game.

I'll agree with you, though, that I would never claim sane gun owner if I were a sane gun owner. I'd claim something stupid to get NKed.

Hmm...

This is interesting. Add that I don't know much about Kirbyoshi's stances at all... and I think I have a problem.

Kirbyoshi

: Who else do you think is scum?

[jenniwren]

I unvoted XScorp because I didn't want to risk it...hiphop pointed something out that made me reconsider.

Jenni- if there are 3 scum and you xscorp and ben are not scum, then this game can be over like that especially because of this

bouncy.bouncy wrote:This game is a 12-player closed setup with normal game mechanics. Daytalking is permitted for Mafia/Mason/etc. A Mafia player may perform a kill in addition to performing his/her own role action(s) on the same night. The game will end early if such is fair. Flavor should not affect the outcome of the game.

Mafia can coordinate their votes, and most likely will. So UNVOTE if you have any doubts in your mind at all.

I unvoted hiphop because SSBF said something that also made me reconsider. I'm not saying that either one isn't scum, but as you yourself have pointed out, this is a big decision for the town and making the wrong decision could seal our fate.

He claim to use his one-shot vig on xvart: I don't see a town vig (Especially not a one-shot town vig) killing one of the most valueable players in the game who made strong scum hunting effort and was on many people's town list is a good idea for a town vig. XScorpion's reason? His hammer on Robocopter87. I don't see how that hammer was scummy. He was hammering a person he heavily suspected and it was litterally hours away from the deadline. This further supports my theory that xvart wasn't a vig kill, but a mafia kill.

[Equinox]

Hmm... That makes sense to me, actually.

If this wasn't MyLo/LyLo, who would you lynch?

[jenniwren]

At this point XScorp or Kirby; SSBF's point about XScorp is a good one; Kirby has been actively lurking throughout the game. I could also see hiphop or SpyreX in the third position.

[XScorpion]

Kirbyoshi claimed under pressure from SpyreX. The thing I'm hung up on is how off the wall the claim is. Like SpyreX, I have never seen a sane gun owner... It's a pretty weird role for scum to claim. I realize this thought is itself a logical fallacy, but I can't help wondering who would think that up as a fake claim. Kirbyoshi, apparently.

Pressure my ass! Unless he got a wagon going then there's no pressure at all, just Spyrex being a town bully. Kinda like Benmage.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Wait, I just had an idea that can help clear up this sharp division between all of us players.

Today or tomorrow, we should do a listing of our top three suspects. Our top suspect would receive three points, our second suspect would receive two points, and third suspect one point. You may list a fourth suspect if you wish, but it will only count as .5 of a point Once everyone has given thoughts in this, I will tally up how often a person is called suspicious and how heavily it is. The one that is most heavily suspected will be lynched that day barring anything that makes someone else scummier to other people.

hiphop, SpyreX, remember this idea from Mini 985: Madness at Night? The listing idea worked out very well for the town and helped catch scums both time it was attempted. So I can consider this an effecient scum hunting strategy to make as town.

I'll start:
1st: XScorpion +3
2nd: Kirbyoshi +2
3rd: Benmage +1
4th: SpyreX +.5

According to Day 3, this is what I've seen people suspect so far (Correct me if I'm wrong about something):

Super Smash Bros. Fan: XScorpion (+3), Kirbyoshi (+2), Benmage (+1), SpyreX (+.5)
SpyreX: hiphop (+3), jenniwren (+2), Super Smash Bros. Fan (+1)
Equinox: XScorpion (+3), jenniwren (+2), hiphop (+1)
XScorpion: Kirbyoshi (+3), Benmage (+2), ??? (+1)
Benmage: XScorpion (+3), hiphop (+2), ??? (+1)
jenniwren: ??? (+3), ??? (+2), ??? (+1)
Kirbyoshi: XScorpion (+3), ??? (+2), ??? (+1)
hiphop: ??? (+3), ??? (+2), ??? (+1)

So far that's:
Equinox: 0
SpyreX: .5
Super Smash Bros. Fan: 1
Benmage: 3
jenniwren: 4
Kirbyoshi: 5
hiphop: 6
XScorpion: 12

I am not voting no lynch.

Then give us a good reason why we shouldn't lynch today, especially since lynching incorrectly today will result in the town losing the game?

[Equinox]

My suspects have changed since I last listed them.

XScorpion > Kirbyoshi > hiphop

So far that's:
Equinox: 0

You see my predicament here. This is most likely my last chance to have a say in the lynch.

[Equinox]

EBWOP:

For best results, if you're adding your fourth suspect, everyone else should as well; that way the numbers would be more representative of relative scumminess.

That means I should as well.

XScorpion > Kirbyoshi > hiphop > jenniwren

Today

or tomorrow

, we should do a listing of our top three suspects.

Guys, do not delay this until Day 4.

I'd have done this popcorn style, but unfortunately we don't have time, if that mass claim was any indication.

Oh, yeah. If you haven't answered whatever I addressed to you here, answer 'em within your next post with your suspects ranking or diescumdie.

[hiphop]

1.) One-shot nurse absolutely doesn't make sense. Nurse is inherently a one-shot role. The addition of it attempts to add credence BUT falls flat on its face.
2.) Nurse is a

passive

role. There would be no 'action confirmed' message in any world. Period.
3.)

Flavor should not affect the outcome of the game.

. His flavor absolutely does just that.
4.) Disregarding #3 for a second, if hiphop's flavor was true it was saying "at least one of Snap or Crackle is a protective role". Which makes a lot of sense with the early vote for robocopter. Ohh wait, no it doesn't. At least you wouldn't throw them under the bus in a them or me moment, right? Ohh wait, yes you would.

1)I said the role the mod gave me. What more do you want? Here is a hint guys, next time you get a role that is iffy, fakeclaim. *sarcasm* And obviously a nurse is not inherently a one-shot, since technically if I could still use my role tonight then I would have used my role twice.

2)I take it you have not used your role, or should I say have not been sending in the actions for your scum group. This is my 13th game on this site, I believe, and I never had a mod confirm that a role was successful on this one or on the other one that i play at. Not only that, but it is not common to do so. So do you really think I as scum, would claim such an absurd fact as that unless it was true? Wifom, but think about it. The mod confirmed that the action was successful. Period. In fact, since Xscorp is the only who has used his role. let's try this.

Xscorp-Even though I believe you are scum, confirm or uncornfirm that the mod confirms actions.

3)That is a matter of your opinion.

4)Let'd think about this one. I did not know that Snap or Crackle was going to be a protective role. In fact I did not know that those parts of the flavor were even related. All I knew is there was a protective role, and I was going to be a person who gets to save someone once they died.

At everyone- Base on my claim, would you have guesses that Snap or crackler was a protective role?

And as far as i knew, it made sense that Snap, crackle, or pop would rebel. And since I know I didn't, then that limits it to be one of the other 2. That was of course before I realized that the mod could have made anyone scum.

Did i miss anything?

Hey, chuckles:

6 - 1 = 5 with 2 scum left is lylo.

6 - 1 - 1 = 4 with 2 scum left is a scum win.

quite a change of heart from that game to this game. What happened? Different alignment?

The thing that is giving me so much trouble about this game is that we're split on

just about everything

. For the life of this town, we can't agree on anything. Every single living player in this game has two groups either supporting or opposing their lynch. We can't agree on whether or not a massclaim was a good idea, even when the ball was already rolling. We can't even decide whether or not to lynch. Damn.

Scum are doing a wonderful job of running a "Good Cop, Bad Cop" game here.

qft

Equinox The reason that I used my role is because i was outed. Therefore I was going to use it before i died. As for protecting myself- I asked the mod if I could since he did not say so in my role, and he said because he hadn't said so, I would able to do so. So protecting myself was the most obviously thing to do. I was an outed doc(nurse whatever), so it only made sense to kill me, because in most games docs cannot self-save.

MY scum-picks are still the same as this post

jenni Still want me to respond to your case?

Jenni Sure, answer the question when someone else asks it, but when i ask time, completely ignore me. What is the difference? Wait, worthless question because you won't answer me.

Either way jenni is still town. Personally I find wavering between who is scum a townie play in lylo. Then again it could be fence-sitting, but I believe it is more likely the former.

[XScorpion]

Xscorp-Even though I believe you are scum, confirm or uncornfirm that the mod confirms actions.

Confirm.

[jenniwren]

SSBF:

XScorp+Kirby+Spyrex+hiphop

hiphop :

I wasn't sure which three people to choose at that point when you asked.

[Equinox]

Hmm...

The thing I was getting at by asking you why you used your role was to see if bouncy.bouncy notified you that it was okay to use. I saw a town deputy recently try to investigate, though, so doing what you did doesn't sound totally whacked.

At everyone- Base on my claim, would you have guesses that Snap or crackler was a protective role?

Mod says flavor is neutral. I believe the mod, so I wouldn't make any guesses either way.

More thoughts later. I'd rather hear XScorpion respond to this first.

Preview Edit: Oh, good.

Based on the alleged pattern of Night 2 actions, hiphop and XScorpion are probably of the same alignment.

Unfortunately, it's impossible to figure out what it is short of lynching them, and I'm not bold enough right now to wager the game on testing this theory. hiphop isn't acting like a fake claim, though... even though he and the rest of us know how bloody weird it is to have a nurse back up the bulletproof.

I think I need sleep. e_e

[Kirbyoshi]

@Equinox: Mod also said that there were no weird roles. I would consider my role weird. I would actually consider all one-shot roles (and it seems that all town PRs are one-shot; I still die when my role is used) to be weird.

So, for my scum list (after a careful reread):
1. jenniwren: What no one pointed out is that her cereal isn't called Sugar Crisp...it's called Golden Crisp. Slip? (Not that she faked her cereal, but that she faked her flavor) And in 542, she seems to insist that she's VT. That smells like trying too hard to me.
2. Benmage: 517 he proves he's not reading the thread. hiphop's claim was a big deal, and he would have noticed it.
3. Equinox: The flavor he gave with his claim doesn't say VT to me...it says some type of recruiting role...
4. XScorpion: That claim kinda threw me off, since he was the first one to claim one-shot, and that seems to be the trend of the game. I'll play the Wait And See game with XSc.

[Kirbyoshi]

(and it seems that all town PRs are one-shot; I still die when my role is used)

EBWOP: Except of course for the watcher.

[jenniwren]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_Bear

Sugar Bear is the advertising cartoon mascot of Post Super Sugar Crisp (later Golden Crisp) cereal.

Lyrics to the original song: "Can't get enough that Sugar Crisp, Sugar Crisp, Sugar Crisp.Can't get enough of that Sugar Crisp, it helps keeps me going strong."

My dad always called me Sugar Bear, and he sang me this song all the damn time. I know exactly what my cereal is.

[jenniwren]

http://mistertoast.blogspot.com/2007/09 ... -bear.html

Visual proof.

You're really grasping at straws there.

[SpyreX]

Aight catcup.

First off a parse assuming kirby STILL makes my head hurt. Assuming the truth we're looking at a strong scum setup. Which would mean either two PR's lying or a VT lying as a scum PR (which, for whatever reason, I don't see ALL that often). Assuming scum I just don't understand - he didn't play up a push for a mislynch AND hiding that role actually makes...sense? If we'd seen multiple kills I'd say an SK move but as it sits I guess I have to lean town.

I disagree that ConfidAnon/Sawyer nearly facing a mod-kill is alignment-indicated. Even if both were mod-killed and flipped town, assuming a three-scum set-up, we would be in an 5 town - 3 scums situation which would not result in a scum win.

Disregarding the simple fact that Equinox and Benmage have been playing town I'll call out your garbagio with this:

10 alive day 2. Normally, BaM does modkill at lynch. So, 9 at lynch.

9 - 2 - 1 kill = 6 alive. 3 scum is game. "OHH NOES THAT ASSUMES A MISLYNCH D2". Yea, it does. So, yes, 3 town deaths there would have been game. Again, it is moot because they're not scum based on their play but hay don't let that stop you.

I'm skipping the pair of XSCORP IS SCUM YO because its the same old song and dance.

hiphop's play looked very town to me Day 1 and Day 2 with him scum hunting a lot, being outspoken about his opinions, etc. However, I am starting to doubt hiphop's alignment. SpyreX's #572, he brings up a couple of good points that point toward hiphop scum. One was that his flavor claim affects the game and the other one was that nurse is a passive role. These reasons make sense to me and open up the possibility of hiphop-scum, but I am still undecided on him.

ConfidAnon did next to nothing in this game with his only contributation being his unfinished catch-up post, which had some parrots in it so he was neutral-scummy to me. Benmage's Day 2 play gave me a town vibe from him thought, but I do find his Day 3 play questionable. His "I'm 100% confirmed town" stances is scummy because there is no way to prove a Vanilla Townie claim or the person's alignment. I also don't like his suggestion that we should lynch today either.* A scum wants to achieve a quick victory as soon as possible and the best way to achieve that is by lynching today instead of us waiting until tomorrow in where we have a better chance of finding scums. If he is a Vanilla Townie, then what is already a big risk to take will be even bigger today. Those two things put the slot down as a possible scum.

"I totally don't want to bus my partner yo I mean SpyreX is right but SpyreX is still scum hurfhurf."
"I'm totally not going to look at the context of why ben said that or why that makes little sense as a scum because of just that reason but keep on keepin on"

While I did think jenniwren's Day 1 play was very pro-town, I will agree with SpyreX that she most certainly slacked off big time Day 2. I didn't like how she changed her play style so sharply. Day 1, she was aggressive, confident, and attacked her suspects with mostly good cases. Day 2, she took a mostly casual approach to the situation and didn't contribute nearly as much. However, jenniwren's Day 1 play is enough to give me a slight town read on her.

Kirbyoshi's play has been neutral to me throughout most of this game. He contributes and makes some good points, but not spectactularly scummy to me. However, I find his Sane Gun Owner claim to be completely out of this world and it makes no sense to me. It also doesn't give me good vibes about him. I wouldn't mind a Kirbyoshi's lynch tomorrow.

Day 2, SpyreX was my second lynch candidate and the majority of his case on me is weak and I have noticed some things that bother me about him. However, I am willing to give his claim the benefit of a doubt and I do believe it more then some others claims out there *coughcough XScorpion/Kirbyoshi coughcough*. Still suspicious of him, although not as much.

"SpyreX, the scum, I'm going to agree with some more and still not try to throw that bus because the day 1 play (hint: it wasn't good) is enough to disregard doing nothing d2"

"While I will allow no speculation about setup to argue other people I have to keep some options open so even though I've got nothing on kirby I've already cleared both my partners thus"

"SpyreX = OMGUS"

1)I said the role the mod gave me. What more do you want? Here is a hint guys, next time you get a role that is iffy, fakeclaim. *sarcasm* And obviously a nurse is not inherently a one-shot, since technically if I could still use my role tonight then I would have used my role twice.

2)I take it you have not used your role, or should I say have not been sending in the actions for your scum group. This is my 13th game on this site, I believe, and I never had a mod confirm that a role was successful on this one or on the other one that i play at. Not only that, but it is not common to do so. So do you really think I as scum, would claim such an absurd fact as that unless it was true? Wifom, but think about it. The mod confirmed that the action was successful. Period. In fact, since Xscorp is the only who has used his role. let's try this.

3)That is a matter of your opinion.

4)Let'd think about this one. I did not know that Snap or Crackle was going to be a protective role. In fact I did not know that those parts of the flavor were even related. All I knew is there was a protective role, and I was going to be a person who gets to save someone once they died.

At everyone- Base on my claim, would you have guesses that Snap or crackler was a protective role?

And as far as i knew, it made sense that Snap, crackle, or pop would rebel. And since I know I didn't, then that limits it to be one of the other 2. That was of course before I realized that the mod could have made anyone scum.

1.) If the mod actually gave a role that mechanically didn't make sense I'd sure as hell say something to the mod. Of course, if I fakeclaim and screw up and get called out on it I'm sure gonna go welp, thats what the mod gave me. And nurse is inherently one-shot: it takes on the attributes of the protective (namely, doc) role when it dies. It doesn't jump role to role - what happens AFTER may not be one shot but the nurse is.

2.) After the swing and a miss with your claim and saying that the passive role (hint: you would have got some form of 'you are now a BP' not 'action (that you didn't perform) successful') got mod information well swing and a miss.

3.) No. You saying that "Snap or Crackle are a protective role" is a part of your flavor

definitively affects the outcome

of the game via flavor. That is not an opinion.

4.) If your flavor is true you knew one of them was. MAYBE you could have said "ohh scum doc" but no. You went "SEE LOOK MY FLAVOR + ROBO = DELICIOUS PRIZES"

quite a change of heart from that game to this game. What happened? Different alignment?

You're talking about the game of "SpyreX is totally a lyncher and wants us to nolynch so he can win" when I had no definitive 100% I'm calling this scum for the game reads?

As being the same as here and the difference being my alignment?

In a large setup versus a mini?

If you keep stretching, you may in fact get that moon.

[bouncy.bouncy]

VOTE COUNT

5 to lynch
Xscorpion (1) Benmage
hiphop (1) SpyreX

none (2) Kirbyoshi, hiphop

Not voting (4) Equinox, jenniwren, Super Smash Bros. Fan, Xscorpion

[Benmage]

unvote vote hip-hop

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Disregarding the simple fact that Equinox and Benmage have been playing town I'll call out your garbagio with this:

10 alive day 2. Normally, BaM does modkill at lynch. So, 9 at lynch.

9 - 2 - 1 kill = 6 alive. 3 scum is game. "OHH NOES THAT ASSUMES A MISLYNCH D2". Yea, it does. So, yes, 3 town deaths there would have been game. Again, it is moot because they're not scum based on their play but hay don't let that stop you.

I'm skipping the pair of XSCORP IS SCUM YO because its the same old song and dance.

I spot some problems with your argument. First one is that you are taking a mislynch into account. My point was not that two townies mod-kill and a mislynch would cause a scum win, but that two townies being mod-kill would not cause a town loss. With you taking into account the mislynch, it invalidates your argument. Also, we were at ten players before the near-modkills of ConfidAnon/Sawyer happened. Why did you count an extra death into the mix?

"I totally don't want to bus my partner yo I mean SpyreX is right but SpyreX is still scum hurfhurf."

Yes you did explain a few things about hiphop that could point toward him as scum, but I'm going to need more then that to convince me to vote him. In the end, unless it's something major like a "Guilty" cop investigation, scummy behavior will be the main reason I vote for a person. Also, scummy people can still make pro-town points, so being scummy =/= you are super-scummy in every post, just that I think that your post have more scummy contents then contents that resemble those of a townie.

"I'm totally not going to look at the context of why ben said that or why that makes little sense as a scum because of just that reason but keep on keepin on"

I already have looked at the context of Benmage's post. I don't see town motivations for why a person would declare himself to be 100% confirmed townie unless they have been confirmed that alignment in some way. I also see more scum motivations for pushing for a lynch today because a scum has an oppertunity to go for a quick win today by mislynching. Not only will a No Lynch prevent that from happening, it will also makes them more likely to be caught because there are less people around which means they will almost certainly gain more attention then they would with eight players.

"SpyreX, the scum, I'm going to agree with some more and still not try to throw that bus because the day 1 play (hint: it wasn't good) is enough to disregard doing nothing d2"

I am not disregarding things from Day 2. It clearly has effected my read on jenniwren in a negative fashion. However, the reason why it's still a slight town read is because IMO, jenniwren's towny acts is more numerous then her scummy acts.

"While I will allow no speculation about setup to argue other people I have to keep some options open so even though I've got nothing on kirby I've already cleared both my partners thus"

I've already said something about Kirbyoshi that bothers me. The very likely fake-claim is enough for me to put him on my scum list, that is something on Kirbyoshi I don't like. Also, when I did I say I would not allow speculation about set-up?

"SpyreX = OMGUS"

Wrong, it is not OMGUS. I have been suspecting you since the beginning of Day 2 and have explained why your attacks on me is weak and why some of your actions have been scummy.

Vote: No Lynch

I think we've gotten enough information for today and that No Lynch is the best course of action. I am not going to risk a mislynch today while we can lynch tomorrow and have a better chance of lynching scums.