Mini 1039 Lost: Season One (Over)

[chesskid3]

Remember when you were about to get lynched, and dram swooped in and saved you?

Yeah, those were the good old days.

[chesskid3]

By my count there are 9 people alive in this game. Minus lyncher, that makes 8 active people. Where the hell is everyone?

[BloodCovenent]

Remember when you were about to get lynched, and dram swooped in and saved you?

Yeah, those were the good old days.

The fuck is that supposed to mean?

[AGar]

Remember when you were about to get lynched, and dram swooped in and saved you?

Yeah, those were the good old days.

The fuck is that supposed to mean?

It's code for "I'm scum, now vote me."

I do believe you are, but he's telling everyone else.

[BloodCovenent]

Remember when you were about to get lynched, and dram swooped in and saved you?

Yeah, those were the good old days.

The fuck is that supposed to mean?

It's code for "I'm scum, now vote me."

I do believe you are, but he's telling everyone else.

Sorry to burst your bubble. But i'm not scum.

[chesskid3]

Lol he was saying I'm scum, BC

[BloodCovenent]

Lol he was saying I'm scum, BC

Gotcha. It seemed off.

[AGar]

Yeah, CK is scum.

[chesskid3]

I'm just going to ignore Agar's tunneling.

WHy is Dram posting a lot in other games, and not here when he obv isn't a vanilla from he's preventation of a BC lynch?

[vezokpiraka]

Who should I vote?

unvote
vote dekes

I'll wait for you guys to finish.

[Dekes]

So, let me get this straight:
- chesskid is voting AGar because he wanted to vote the TL/AGar slot. He promised reasons but has failed to provide any.
- AGar is voting chesskid based solely on his fakehammer gambit.
- Since then, everything one person has been saying has been declared as completely scummy by the other.

...Yep, sounds like town vs. town to me. Still fail to see scumminess from either.

BC jumping on the imo weaker person in this debate doesn't surprise me at all.

@dram

I know you've got a lot of other games going on (I'm addicted to your Alphabet-mafia), but just skimming this thread to stay alive just isn't cut it. You've been asked questions and this time I bolded your name so that you actually notice it.
Your Iso isn't really helping you either. At the very least it shows your lack of interest into this game and it could be seen as scummily flying under the radar as well.
Again, based on his playstyle only, do you believe BC is town?

@jenni
Well, if we go for show flavor here, then Michael states several times that his only interest is getting his son off the island. He's not on best terms with a lot of the other survivors and the more the season progresses the more he distances himself from the other Losties except for the raft crew.
And again, Ademisk didn't prove your role. He only said he could prove your role. Scum have been caught lying in order to gain credibility before.

[dramonic]

my current reads based on playstyle are that Jenni and Ademisk are the remaining scum
the fact they are still alive reinforces that.

BC seems town to me, and I am unwilling to lynch him.

Vote: Ademisk

You should've died yesterday. I won't let you off twice <3

[chesskid3]

Whatever, AGar.

Questions from rereading:
@Jenniwren: What was your response to my suggesting that you are a beloved princess? From an iso of you/JasonT (was looking for links), I saw you not deny it, so to clarify, are you confirming that you are BP, or are you neither confirming nor denying?

Now, some analysis, particularly involving 3 posts from JasonT. First a general comment is that based on his ISO post-knowing he was scum, he's pretty obvscum. So I think the following quotes will prove fruitful
#1:

The problem Jason, is if his ability is that he always gets a wrong name (not that i see that happening cuz that's a shit role), if he targets a maf and gets a town name that isn't in play, they aren't going to disagree with him.

that is a good point actually.

Right now in my thinking... it is a very risky gambit if he is not actually claiming who he says he is. The lyncher theory has been brought up.. im not entirely sure how that works... does the lyncher automatically win the game if said target is lynched?

Outside of a lyncher role, then there really is no reason for him to be lying... because if he is... then the next day the he will be hot under the microscope. I don't see much to gain from a scum Vez here.

my point on the day 2 target still stands though, it should be completly up to him to avoid scum interference or influence.

He's supporting some rather stupid thing I said, and then completely ignoring it. I have Dekes as 95% town, based on this plus his posts.

#2
[qoute="JasonT1981"]

In other news, jenniwren avoided the whole iussue of Dekes/Vezok apart from the initial claim. Who's scum Jenni? Your last few posts have been talking about nothing game related.

I noticed that too, It seemed like inane chatter about the show in the hopes of looking like he was blending in all while doing very little.[/quote]

#3

hmmmm, Dram... you would have a great point. But this game based solely on Season 1... Michael did not do anything bad until the very end of season 2, of which he was missing for a great deal of if I recall.

There do seem to be a lot of links in this game, but that can be expected as quite a lot of people in Lost ended up being linked to each other... some knowing, some unknowing. I would expect at least one of the pairings to be scum... or at least one half of the pairing to be scum. Its also very clear who Jenni is now... at least to those who followed the show.

with the claim, I am going to

unvote

and

vote: HackerHusk

I had my suspicions on both he and Adem, with the claim.... I feel my vote is better on HH

Now the Jason/Adem link was the closest I can see among his links, but I still doubt he would force a scumbuddy to nameclaim Michael.
The wagon shifted off of Adem very quickly, however, and I feel like the vote changes there will give quite a lot of information.
Here's the switch order, then there will be a few analysises of votes at a few points.
At L-1 Ademisk claims he has information on Jenni.
Jenni unvotes 25 minutes later, no posts in between.
MoI and FaraSera question, quite a bit of back and forth between Adem,Jenni,MoI and FaraSera.
I return from V/LA and vote Jason (Adem is at L-2 at this point, and my vote had not been on anyone)
BC puts Adem at L-1

HackerHuck (3): MagnaofIllusion(town), AGar, jenniwren
Ademisk (6): jasonT1981(scum DEAD), vezokpiraka(lyncher), Dekes(town), dramonic(town), Faraseradayaphim(town DEAD), BloodCovenent(town)
jasonT1981(scum DEAD) (2): HackerHuck(town DEAD), chesskid3(town)
AGar (1): Ademisk

Things in parenthesis are my reads/"confirmed"
He stays at L-1 for quite some time, and then Jason posts #3, switching to the HH wagon.
I ask for jason wagon because I had a scummy vibe from him (rightly so mind you)
Fara hops onto Jason
Jason claimes doc with 2 votes on him
Fara hops onto HH
I got fooled and hopped onto HH as well
I fakehammer, vezo realhammers.

Now, for pairings: Dram has "role-related info" that says BC is town. Dram is pretty high on my townlist ignoring the soft-pr claim, so I'll trust this.
Now, Jason did a lot of buddying with Adem. It could be a framejob, but honestly I don't see it.
Scumlist: Ademisk,AGar,Jenni.
Though I want to know more about Dram's role and BC being absolutely confirmed, because I'd be a lot more suspcious of BC if he weren't cleared.


Also, I found this interesting.

BloodCovenent (4): Dekes, MagnaofIllusion(town), chesskid3(town), Faraseradayaphim(town DEAD)
jenniwren (1): jasonT1981(scum DEAD)
Faraseradayaphim(town DEAD) (1): vezokpiraka(lyncher)
chesskid3(town) (1): BloodCovenent
vezokpiraka(lyncher) (1): Ademisk
Not voting (4): jenniwren, HackerHuck(town DEAD), TheLonging, dramonic(town)
BC wagon falls here.

Adem today, AGar or Jenni tomorrow.

Unvote

Vote: Ademisk

[MagnaofIllusion]

well, I could post and say "I FUCKIN TOLD YOU SO!" but that would be kind of smug <<

Funny, because your ISO shows NOT ONE BIT of Day 1 posting where you say lynching Hacker would be a bad idea. So, yeah.

This question isn’t getting any more answered Dram –

“Are you Lovers with BC but not alignment confirmed?”

Yes or No will suffice.

Also now that it is revealed that there is a vig or an SK it makes absolutely no sense for scum to kill a beloved princess until the other killing role is eliminated.

Scum didn’t know there was a Vig / SK until after N1 so this argument only applies to why scum would kill jenni, if she is a BP, after today. So this point is moot.

He said he had all of my info.

He could have also said Death Rays from Mars were out to get the Town. Doesn’t make it true. I understand your potential worry if your role backfires on Town but your immediate acceptance of every bit of his claim when he only had proven one bit (and I’d have to look back to even see if that was true) makes me question you.

Who'se gonna kill him? Seriously, Mafia aren't going to nk him.

Now that we have a dead scum (Jason) we have some breathing room to make decisions on when to lynch Vezok if he isn’t Vigged. And this of course assumes Dekes is confirmed Town. I doubt the scum would like to trade 1 for 2 (1 scumm for lyncher leaving game and Nightkill after Dekes lynch) at this point.

Because what else should I have said to fake-vote him? Also if Jack is mafia goon how is a flavor cop even remotely useful?
Also, idr what, but Jason had a reasonable claim/someone cleared him iirc.

What good is a flavour cop? Do you understand how they work? Goons are detected by flavor cops just like any other non-Godfather Mafia. Throwing doubt on the usefulness of any Town cop role is either stupid play or scummy. Also, need I mention jason flipped MAFIA DOCTOR!

Jason had a reasonable claim. He wasn’t cleared. That said Hacker’s claim ala Hurley makes reasonable flavor sense also. If someone had cleared Jason we’d be stringing them up pronto.

Now I'm spending my time defending myself from random shit instead of finding scum, awesome.

This is Mafia. If you don’t expect to receive questions or criticism based on your play no matter how Townie you think you are perhaps this isn’t the game for you.

Regarding Jason –

Current working scum Meta on Jason is to ignore at least one of his partners. With that in mind I’m reviewing his ISO for interactions and votes.

Direct Interactions / Votes

–

ISO 1 / 2 – Votes chesskid
ISO 8 – Interaction with FSHydra and chess
ISO 10 – Interaction with Jenniwren. Also, go back and read this post. Jason basically outs the ‘Flavor does not equal show flavor’ argument right here. Interesting. Somehow I missed this before.
ISO 11 – FOS FSHydra
ISO 15 – Possible coaching of BC?
ISO 18 – 21 – Interactions with Vezok
ISO 22 – Votes jenni
ISO 29, FOS to Ademisk and HH, interactions with myself, Ademisk, Hacker and Dramonic
ISO 31 – Votes ademisk
ISO 34 – Interaction with BC

Who does Jason’s ISO completely ignore? AGar and Dekes. I suspect there is scum in there. And I’m no longer going to ignore Dekes as Claire’s connection with Jack just might be a reason for Reck to have made her scum.

Day 1 VC Analysis TBD tomorrow, probably.

[dramonic]

PoE tells me Jenni, Jason and Ademisk,

You could extrapolate from this that any other lynch is bad <_<

Also, I am not lover with BC.

[chesskid3]

Scum didn’t know there was a Vig / SK until after N1 so this argument only applies to why scum would kill jenni, if she is a BP, after today. So this point is moot.

Untrue. Why else would there be a mafia doctor?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Untrue. Why else would there be a mafia doctor?

Mod WIFOM. It's the same reason people assume there is a Cop when a Miller exists. Except Mods do funny things like fucking with site assumptions. Ala Castlevania Mafia.

Granted it's not guarenteed but the Mafia didn't know FOR CERTAIN until Night 1. And heck a Doc save and they still might not have know.

[xRECKONERx]

For the record, I am officially making

Blue

the town color. Sorry for the confusion, if there was any.

[BloodCovenent]

Untrue. Why else would there be a mafia doctor?

Mod WIFOM. It's the same reason people assume there is a Cop when a Miller exists. Except Mods do funny things like fucking with site assumptions. Ala Castlevania Mafia.

Granted it's not guarenteed but the Mafia didn't know FOR CERTAIN until Night 1. And heck a Doc save and they still might not have know.

This is true. However i imagine it could still make them paranoid.

[Ademisk]

My thoughts as I catch up, chronologically. Sorry for the disarray.

How was chess' fakevote bad? I mean, when comparing a real vote against a fake one, why would the fake one be worse when it deals less damage? The victim remains with 1 less vote, and I could see how you could use it to draw out those interested in getting the lynchee hammered. Though in this case, it was pointless either way since HH was already at L-1.

@dram: Post 435. Why are you surprised that me and jenni are alive?

@chess: Post 437. I'm not to clear on what a Beloved Princess is so maybe thats why I didn't notice it, but how did jenni softclaim that role?

@MOI. Post 438. What else could the softclaim mean other than BP?

@jenni: Post 440. If Vezok is not mafia, then he wouldn't have a fake claim, and thus made it up, right? Therefore, him claiming Boone does not exclude there actually being a real Boone in the game.

@chess: Post 447. If Jason had a reasonable claim, why not give HH the same benefit of doubt? Vote on AGar w/o reasons.

@dram: Post 451. You "FUCKIN TOLD [US] SO" what, exactly?

@Dekes: Post 458. Your reasons for voting me were that my suspects were protected, and apparently suspecting them under such circumstances is bad. And yet you are guilty of suspecting me when I am under the same circumstances. Why so?

@BC: I still don't like that you haven't even addressed the fact that dram saved you from being lynched D1. Why do you think he said that we shouldn't lynch you?

@dram: Post 486. Your vote on me yesterday was just you hopping on the wagon.

Unvote
Vote: Ademisk

I like this wagon

What actual reasons do you have to want me dead?

@chess: Post 487. So you think I am scum because jason correctly pointed out to dram that the game is only within the scope of season 1? How would he have forced me to claim Michael (with no outside communication) while also so conveniently tying jenni into this mess (becauuse of jenni supporting me and making the point that it would be broken for scum to know what I know with which I agree). Thats pretty convinient, all of us scum right there. Doesn't it make more sense that Jason is linked to you since, like you said, he's "supporting some rather stupid thing [you] said"? And when did you get to confirming so concretely that dram/bc (and to a lesser extent vezok/dekes) to be town?

I ask for jason wagon because I had a scummy vibe from him (

rightly so mind you

)

This just screams scum. You're patting yourself on the back for something you could not have known back then (unless you are scum) and trying to use it to your credit retrospectively. Especially since you then admit how you were 'fooled' and ended up voting for HH instead.

Scumlist: Ademisk,AGar,Jenni.

Then you imply that is AGar/TL linked to us. How is he, aside from your personal vendetta with him?

Every time you post, I feel happier and happier about my vote on you.

And then lets not forget how strongly you felt about AGar not too long ago.

I haz plan

You even haz a plan for him. What is it?

Whatever, AGar.

This must've been it: moving on to the next target when your weak attack on the first one doesn't work out.

Vote: chesskid

@MOI: Post 488. In respect to jenni's and mine roles, I've proven all that she asked. Like I said, I could prove more, but consider how much the town will gain for knowing I speak the truth (not much, since you don't trust her belief in me) vs the harm that may come from me outing her role.

[chesskid3]

Perhaps the attack was weak for a reason? Anyway I'm not going to bother justifying myself to scum.

[dramonic]

I have a very short ISO, how hard can it be to check it?

I have a firm belief that our scum is Jenni+Jason+Ademisk
SURPRISE, jenni and ademisk are crossconfirming themselves
surprise, HH flipped town
surprise, jason was indeed scum

Can we please lynch ademisk now?

[Ademisk]

Lol. chess and dram, how about you answer the questions I asked.

chess, scum or not, others will eventually ask and you'll have to explain to them, why not start now? And that is such a terrible excuse to not give reasons, too.

dram, what are you talking about. You're descending to Vezok's level of gibberish, start making sense man! And I did check your ISO. Your voting history is garbage. FSH, jenni, and me twice. The only remotely sensible vote, I felt at the time, was on FSH. And even that you soon withdrew due to accusations of how worthless it was. Your 2 latest votes aren't any better.

[dramonic]

dram, what are you talking about. You're descending to Vezok's level of gibberish, start making sense man! And I did check your ISO. Your voting history is garbage. FSH, jenni, and me twice. The only remotely sensible vote, I felt at the time, was on FSH. And even that you soon withdrew due to accusations of how worthless it was. Your 2 latest votes aren't any better.

doesn't make them any less accurate <<

The questions you are asking me prove that you're not even trying.

Why would I not be surprised you and jenni are alive even though she claimed BP and you claimed crossconfirm.
Think for a second.

I fucking told you (or implied, what-fuckin-ever) that HH would flip town.

And I want you dead because my gut tells me you are scum, and your claim just fits perfectly within that thinking.
So far my gut's been pretty accurate.

[jenniwren]

I'm still putting together a post, but for the time being, I'm going to say this:

Adem said he knew my name and my role. I understood that to mean that he knew my character's name and my assigned role in the game. I had no reason to doubt him, because I AM Walt, and only Michael would have any reason to know that. When he claimed Michael, it would have been obvious who I was. It made perfect sense to me, and it also made sense to me that he would therefore be town-aligned.

I wish he had done it some other way, as in said my character name and His role rather than offering to out mine, but what's done is done. I accepted his claim because it made sense to me, and I unvoted him because he was at L-1 and SOME people have an itchy trigger finger. Whether I understood him correctly or not, I have a good reason not to suspect him, and that doesn't make me scum.

@ Adem: I have no idea who gets fake claims and who doesn't, so I believed Vezok when he said he had the fake claim of Boone; also no one called him out about it, and several people jumped on the wagon.

@Everyone (mainly Chess and MoI, who were discussing it): I can't find information on Mafia Doctor in the wiki. How does it work?