NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[Gorrad]

I just got engaged...that is all for now.

Awww congrats!

Ditto this! Many, many grats!

[Robbnva]

Yeah. Well, Xite, seriously, ISO yourself. Compare the length to War and Peace. Did you expect that I read every word of it?

Xite's iso: Roughly 3,000 words.

War and Peace: Roughly 560,000 words.

I'm helpful : )

but yet they are both equally as boring and uninteresting to read.

@Xite I don't know if they have day talk abilities but I have been mafia 2 times on this site and both time I had day talk abilities and on the other site I play as mafia I have ALWAYS had day talk abilities, so assuming they have day talk abilities in this game isn't that far of a reach. That is one of the advantages mafia has, the ability to communicate with each other and set up their plan.

I have also learned to basically ignore all of your responses because none of them actually make any sense, and why would I vote you when I am pretty sure dana is scum, but if others would rather lynch you first I am more than happy to start that bandwagon.

The problem is lynching you doesn't prove if dana is good or bad, lynching dana and finding out he is scum will give us a better idea of things.

[Robbnva]

I am sure dana is on his mafia qt right now saying FUCK I didn't know the roleblocker died, what do we do now guys.

.

Ok did not see this.

unvote
vote robbnva

Is it just me or does dana and robb seem to go buddy-buddy? And it isn't one-way, but both.

It is just you

[Robbnva]

if I was mafia roleblocker dana would have been blocked, period end of story.
the fact dana got a result is fishy.

If I was a mafia role-blocker, I wouldn't block dana, because people already don't believe him. This needs to stop being discussed and left for another day, because it's diluting the thread and pointless. Dana really aught not be the kill today, honestly if people are so worried about him, then maybe the SK/vig should just take him out. If he flips scum, then I will gladly take my lynch if that's how you feel things should happen (of course, by you I mean the town, not you robbie, cuz you're scum.)
But right now, the right lynch is definitely robbie.

I actually like this logic,

however because it is coming from you I am reluctant to do this

but since I was the one who originally pointed out the role-blocking I am comfortable doing this

Vote dana

Bolded. Not the first time you've done this. Nice way to discredit him
Underlined. And then you go and try to show us how townie you are?
Wow. Color added so everyone gets this part.

1. Well since I originally thought he was scum, it isn't an attempt to discredit him but more of a "I can't believe he is saying this" kind of vibe
2. WOW you are reaching to the point of not making sense. how is that trying to look town? do you not get that I thought Wraith is scum so I am making that statement to clarify that my vote on dana isn't because of Wraith's vote, it is because I was actually contemplating doing it when I first pointed out the roleblocker.
3. your logic on the roleblocker is totally wrong, don't you think dana would look more suspicious if he came back each day claiming to be role-blocked? personally I would. If cop is coming back with innocents I would not lynch him, but now cop is coming back with results after it is confirmed there is a mafia role blocker makes me suspect dana of lying. I have seen a game where dana lied about being a power role early on a game and makes it to about day 7 before getting lynched, he pulls this stuff and he is quite convincing so I am not falling for it.

[Robbnva]

If D2 isn't nearly as shit, I may be willing to do ^that for it. But since we lynched a doctor, I'm guessing it's equally shit.

yeah basically d2 is shit, quick unbiased summary

Xite starts bandwagon on wraith
wraith overreacts
Xite fake daykills wraith
Xite leaves wraith's bandwagon citing meta as primary reason
Xite starts coming after me
I return the favor (the part in here is where I will put in my own opinion that I think my case on him is better than his case on me)
people are unsure which bandwagon to get on, the one for Wraith is solid but slowly people jump over to mysterio
citing deadline reasons (when people are actually requesting a deadline) Bunny decides to hammer without letting mysterio claim.

end unbiased summary

I will say that my vote probably looks sketchy on mysterio but because I had originally voted him and made a case for him after the fake day kill I feel my vote was justified, I shoudl have been more aware of what the vote count was cause I put him at L-1 letting Bunny hammer.

ok here are a few thoughts

1. with people requesting the deadline bunny's vote looks VERY bad. we had people requesting an extension and mysterio on L-1, why would he not let him claim
2. earlier in the game bunny mentions what if there is a mafia roleblocker, for some reason this comment strikes me as off especially since we know there is one now.

FOS Bunnylover

[Xite91]

If D2 isn't nearly as shit, I may be willing to do ^that for it. But since we lynched a doctor, I'm guessing it's equally shit.

4) yeah basically d2 is shit, quick unbiased summary

Xite starts bandwagon on wraith
wraith overreacts
Xite fake daykills wraith
Xite leaves wraith's bandwagon citing meta as primary reason
Xite starts coming after me
5) I return the favor (the part in here is where I will put in my own opinion that I think my case on him is better than his case on me)
people are unsure which bandwagon to get on, the one for Wraith is solid but slowly people jump over to mysterio
citing deadline reasons (when people are actually requesting a deadline) Bunny decides to hammer without letting mysterio claim.

end unbiased summary

6) I will say that my vote probably looks sketchy on mysterio but because I had originally voted him and made a case for him after the fake day kill I feel my vote was justified, I shoudl have been more aware of what the vote count was cause I put him at L-1 letting Bunny hammer.

ok here are a few thoughts

1. with people requesting the deadline bunny's vote looks VERY bad. we had people requesting an extension and mysterio on L-1, why would he not let him claim
2. earlier in the game bunny mentions what if there is a mafia roleblocker, for some reason this comment strikes me as off especially since we know there is one now.

FOS Bunnylover

4) Only because you almost got caught right?
5) Lies. Yours was full of mostly AtE a bit of spaghetti throwing, and even some WIFOM. Mine was full of facts and classic scumtells. Clearly, if we were opposing lawyers, I would have got the guy put in prison.

Also, you missed A LOT in there. You really need to start reading the whole game instead of just some of what relates to you.

@Replacee (I forgot who replaced... sawwie) I would suggest to just play today off of today while slowly catching up on D2 while you can. Maybe even wait until another night phase if you have to. I would say to ISO me, robbie, gorrad, poro and shanba if you have time, because IIRC we're the ones that added a lot of content to the game (most of what everyone else did was comment here and there on the stuff we were adding) Wraith would be another good one, considering he came under a lot of suspicion.

6) I'm going to go back and do an analysis on your posts/votes later on today sometime if I have the time (I should, but we know how that goes)

Your last parts
1. you do mean deadline extension right? The one everyone was deciding to give up on. Bunny's vote DOES look bad, and I WILL be looking at it, but you really can't say it's because people were asking for an extension, because just as many people (if not more) were saying the day needed to end.
2. In a large game especially, mafia roleblockers are very common. Hell, I had one in a newbie 12(IIRC - if not less) player game.

[Xite91]

sonofa-
Anyways, this was supposed to be on the top of that other post, but I hit submit before thought came through, so here's the other part of that post...

but yet they are both equally as boring and uninteresting to read.

@Xite I don't know if they have day talk abilities but I have been mafia 2 times on this site and both time I had day talk abilities and on the other site I play as mafia I have ALWAYS had day talk abilities, so assuming they have day talk abilities in this game isn't that far of a reach. That is one of the advantages mafia has, the ability to communicate with each other and set up their plan.

I have also learned to basically ignore all of your responses because none of them actually make any sense, and why would I vote you when I am pretty sure dana is scum, but if others would rather lynch you first I am more than happy to start that bandwagon.

The problem is lynching you doesn't prove if dana is good or bad, lynching dana and finding out he is scum will give us a better idea of things.

Clearly, you've never read the book

What were the games? I have never seen a game with day talk, so I would appreciate seeing this. Also, this is something I could definitely seeing the mod confirming end-game

My responses don't make sense? Hold on, I have a quote for that, I'll point it out later.

So... you'll uh... attack and lynch the claimed cop suddenly when everyone else is doing it, because it will get you what information exactly?

1. Well since I originally thought he was scum, it isn't an attempt to discredit him but more of a "I can't believe he is saying this" kind of vibe
2. WOW you are reaching to the point of not making sense. how is that trying to look town? do you not get that I thought Wraith is scum so I am making that statement to clarify that my vote on dana isn't because of Wraith's vote, it is because I was actually contemplating doing it when I first pointed out the roleblocker.
3. your logic on the roleblocker is totally wrong,

don't you think dana would look more suspicious if he came back each day claiming to be role-blocked

? personally I would.

If cop is coming back

with innocents I would not lynch him

, but now cop is coming back

with results after it is confirmed there is a mafia role blocker makes me suspect dana of lying.

I have seen a game where dana lied about being a power role early on a game and makes it to about day 7 before getting lynched, he pulls this stuff and he is quite convincing so I am not falling for it.

1) Considering you HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE, I'm reluctant to believe that's true. It looks a lot more like you trying to distance yourself from someone while still agreeing with him. I dunno, maybe when you do flip scum I'll see about a wraith lynch...
2) No, the fact that you're doing the EXACT definition of spaghetti throwing is what's getting me. And you're trying real hard to look protown while doing it.
3) bolded. Nope
Italicized and underlined. Didn't I tell you I'd have a quote for that? Where in any place EVER does that make sense? It's honestly just a whole lot of words with a whole lot of nothing in between.

[Robbnva]

@x go look at the 2 games I was mafia, beleive one was a newbie game, we could talk via PM and white flag mafia we had a qt and were allowed to day talk.

The rest I can't respond to on my phone But no I never read war and peace just like I don't read most of your posts. They eventually got to the point where it became faulty logic and baseless accusations.

[Robbnva]

I will say this is the most fun game I have played on this site, most people on this site are boring but I have now found a 3rd person that I enjoy playing with

regardless of what happens, mod you get props for this game

I like not playing against the same 20 people every game like on my other site

[flinter]

what is suprising after this night is that nothing has changed. We have another dead mafia. One would expect that one would investigate what new suspects this would give.
Further, we have this info:

Inno on Xite was my result. I didn't investigate Wraith because I figured it would be too obvious and scum might be able to affect it somehow (like a lawyer or framer). So I wish to lynch Wraith like we should have yesterday.

vote: Wraith

Xite was already one of the more protown players, but he was attacked anyway. Now with the confirmation that he is innocent, it would be wise to see what the motivations of Xite's attackers were.


But what do we see?

The following people were on all wagons:

Singersigner, Wraith, hiphop

The following people were on no wagons:

Eek, Kise

I can see the Mysterio wagon as NOTHING but scum trying to bail out one of their own. He's been on all three wagons, he's actively detracted from the town, and it's high time he finally bit it.

Vote: Wraith

Also: I apologize for being inactive the last few days of D2. My power cable overheated and broke.

No mention of benmage-scum. Just a simple continuation of what he has said yesterday. Plus that the argument he uses is a bad one. As long as there were two wagons the previous day, one could always use this argument to make a continuation of the previous idea. Nothing says that one of the wagons had to be on scum.

Vote: Porochaz

Even better. Check out Benmage's 15 and 20. Plus my case from yesterday. Wraith is still a poor lynch.

Shanba found two posts where Benmage defended porochaz. This isn't at all convincing.

So I have a question, if mafia had a role blocker what would the reason be they did not block Dana? Dana the cop and the only outed PR would have to be mafia's play night 1, yet Dana got a result. This just strikes me as odd

unvote

just need to figure things out.

This, although Robbnva is certainly not high on my townlist, is a good post. If dana is scum, Robbnva certainly isn't.


It could be possible that yesterday Dana didn't actually get a pm (his target died), but today he clearly got a result. To scum, not a single role is more problematic for their chances. It would have been easy to pick who to RB this night.

Vote Dana

From a scum point of view, yes it is smart to kill the person who has a history of fake-claiming.
Why? Look how things are playing out.
Do I get why Dana is been allowed to invistigate? A little. In my eyes its more suspicious for a claimed cop to be allowed to investigate then to have him obviously roleblocked.
How would his counter claim be called out in D2 if no one believed DP claimed?

And here we have bunnylover explaining (his) scumkills.

FoS bunny

[flinter]

[quote"flinter"]Read it back, completely correct: VOTE: Mysterio

Wait so... You make two long posts attacking dana almost entirely and then end by quoting somebody else and saying you agree then going with that vote? LOLOLOLOLOLOL I smell coaching.

FoS: flinter[/quote]

you are so obsessed with the size of things.

But I agree with enough of your points there to think you are town.

[flinter]

Wraith [5] (Gorrad, Mysterio, Hiphop, Benmage, Xite)
Mysterio [5] (Flinter, Singersigner, danakillsu, Rob, @.@)

Gorrad, I have to admit: the start of the Mysterio wagon is far from great. On the other hand, with Hiphop and Benmage staying on the Dana wagon isn't great either.

but two votecounts further:

Wraith [8] (Gorrad, Mysterio, Hiphop, Benmage, Xite, ConfidAnon, danakillsu, Rob)
Mysterio [3] (Flinter, Singersigner, @.@)

So contrary to Gorrad, I think we had two wagons on town yesterday.

Votecount 2.13

Wraith [7] (Gorrad, Mysterio, Benmage, ConfidAnon, danakillsu, Rob, Bunnylover)

Mysterio [5] (Flinter, Singersigner, @.@, Wraith, hiphop)

On this moment, after Xite made public, dana and Rob switched back fast. Hiphop switched the wrong way (he went from Wraith to mysterio when the Wraith wagon was actually leading), which is supporting Gorrad's theory. If wraith is scum, you want to take a good look at hiphop.

Votecount 2.14

Wraith [7] (Gorrad, Mysterio, Benmage, ConfidAnon, danakillsu, Bunnylover, Reck)

Mysterio [5] (Flinter, Singersigner, @.@, Wraith, hiphop)

and rob hops off, Reck hops on. However, rob moves to the porochaz wagon. So he isn't as likely a buddy of wraith like hiphop is.

Votecount 2.18

Wraith [8] (Gorrad, Mysterio, Benmage, Antihero, danakillsu, Bunnylover, DemonHybrid, Rob)
Mysterio [8] (Flinter, Singersigner, @.@, hiphop, Wickedestjr, Shanba, Lowell, Wraith)

Rob went back, with the Mysterio wagon getting up to speed because of Wicked (town), Shanba and Lowell. If wraith is scum, Rob is town.

Seen that the major chance was with the votes of Wicked, Shanba and lowell, I have trouble with Gorrad's theory that it was a scum counterwagon. Both wagons had their share of scummy players, but mostly at the start of the wagons.

Votecount 2.19

Mysterio [11] (Flinter, Singersigner, @.@, hiphop, Wickedestjr, Shanba, Lowell, Wraith, UltimaAvalon, Rob, Bunnylover)

Wraith [8] (Gorrad, Mysterio, Benmage, Antihero, danakillsu, DemonHybrid)

And rob Bunny and UA finish it. Seen rob's earlier choice for wraith, he can't be scum with Wraith. He isn't supporting a counterwagon then.

[Wraith]

Sorry, I skimmed through that whole thing.

I don't see how danakillsu's claim a few days ago was OBVIOUSLY fake, especially after DP's flip. I can understand Reck's reasoning with that, but I don't necessarily agree with all of his reads. For example, I find Poro one of the scummiest people here, so don't associate him with Reck as far as reads go. However, I do feel like dana's faking it now that this WIFOM bullcrap has been going on.

So, yeah, you seem to know a lot about dana's role. This in particular stands out:

When dana flips scum, I'd like him to be lynched.

You seem to know a little too much.

Unvote, Vote: evilpacman18

This is a very poor reason for a vote, and smells like scum panicking to me.

IGMEOY DH

@Xite: Your WIFOM is giving the scumteam waaaay too much credit IMO. The fact that they killed DP instead of someone less easy to mislynch really lowered my expectations of their capabilities.

[Flameaxe]

Votecount 3.1

Dana [6] (evilpacman, Wraith, Rob, Prozac, DemonHybrid, Flinter)

Prozac [3] (Shanba, Lowell)
Wraith [2] (Gorrad, Dana)
Rob [2] (Xite, hiphop)
UltimaAvalon [1] (UltimaAvalon)
Bunnylover [1] (Antihero)

Not Voting [4] (Kise, Singersigner, My Milked Eek, Bunnylover)

With 18 alive it will take 10 to lynch, and 9 to no lynch.

---

Deadline:

Not currently in place.

[Gorrad]

Wanna know why it was scum trying to bail out their own? Because never ONCE did someone ask Mysterio for a claim. If I was, hypothetically, on that wagon and it reached that L-1 without anyone so much as mentioning a claim, I would have bailed so he'd have a chance to. If I hadn't had a blown power cable, I would have brought it up too.

[Robbnva]

I am sure dana is on his mafia qt right now saying FUCK I didn't know the roleblocker died, what do we do now guys.

.

Ok did not see this.

unvote
vote robbnva

Is it just me or does dana and robb seem to go buddy-buddy? And it isn't one-way, but both.

1. This makes no sense to me at all, how is me speculating what Dana is doing seem like him and I are buddy buddy?

2. This is an obvious following Xite instead of making your own case

3. Your entire vote history has lacked merit, not once do you make a case on anyone you vote for

Fos hippity hoppity

[Robbnva]

Hip hop votes

post 1 - wraith no reason
post 8 - vote Dana cause he just wants to bw someone
post 17 - votes frank "he is not a PR"
post 21 - votes wraith "I don't think he is a townie"
post 25 - votes mysterio no reason given
post 29 - votes poro - no reason
post 30 - votes me cause I'm buddying Dana by putting a case against him for possible fake cop claim (yeah I'm doing a good job at buddying him:roll:)

[flinter]

Wanna know why it was scum trying to bail out their own? Because never ONCE did someone ask Mysterio for a claim. If I was, hypothetically, on that wagon and it reached that L-1 without anyone so much as mentioning a claim, I would have bailed so he'd have a chance to. If I hadn't had a blown power cable, I would have brought it up too.

The fact that we can see Mysterio flipped doctor makes this an easy argument. I'm sorry that I forgot to ask (and I had no excuse for not being here). I would also not have believed the claim. Seen the game at the end, the deadline was used as an excuse to get a quick bandwagon. If scum tried to save wraith this way, it would have to be one of the 2 or 3 at the end. Who do you suspect to be Wraiths scumbuddy (and why didn't you use this approach before, but simply went on tunneling on Wraith?)

[Antihero]

Sorry, I skimmed through that whole thing.

I don't see how danakillsu's claim a few days ago was OBVIOUSLY fake, especially after DP's flip. I can understand Reck's reasoning with that, but I don't necessarily agree with all of his reads. For example, I find Poro one of the scummiest people here, so don't associate him with Reck as far as reads go. However, I do feel like dana's faking it now that this WIFOM bullcrap has been going on.

So, yeah, you seem to know a lot about dana's role. This in particular stands out:

When dana flips scum, I'd like him to be lynched.

You seem to know a little too much.

Unvote, Vote: evilpacman18

This vote doesn't have much merit and seems pretty forced to me. It also reeks of OMGUS.

[Antihero]

Anyone who is voting dana just because he's not dead/hasn't been blocked is doing so for a really bad reason. There's too much WIFOM! Here's the "scumslip" by bunny I think Robbnva was talking about a few posts ago:

Actually no. I'm more then sure in this large game number their will be a mafia roleblocker, who could possible stop him from invistgating. I would suggest if we have a tracker to track him to see if he visits anyone, or if he is visit by someone, I think it works both way right?

Since watcher is a normal role, it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that there's one in this game; a conservative scumteam could have been deterred by the thought of a watcher.

PS - I'm with Robb in that it's a little weird that Bunny is "more than sure" of a mafia RB. Yes, it is a fairly standard role, but the degree of certainty is a tad high.

[Wraith]

I'm not. Roleblockers are so common that they're in newbies and minis. There's, like, a 3% chance there wouldn't be one in a large normal.

[Xite91]

@x go look at the 2 games I was mafia, beleive one was a newbie game, we could talk via PM and white flag mafia we had a qt and were allowed to day talk.

The rest I can't respond to on my phone But no I never read war and peace just like I don't read most of your posts. They eventually got to the point where it became faulty logic and baseless accusations.

You may have quoted them before, but I really don't want to go back and find them, can I have links? It's very odd that you would talk via PM instead of via QT, I would definitely like to see this. Your other site doesn't count here because you haven't given any proof of it even existing.

How do you know what they end up being if you never read them? That's a very interesting comment.

1) No mention of benmage-scum. Just a simple continuation of what he has said yesterday. Plus that the argument he uses is a bad one. As long as there were two wagons the previous day, one could always use this argument to make a continuation of the previous idea. Nothing says that one of the wagons had to be on scum.

So I have a question, if mafia had a role blocker what would the reason be they did not block Dana? Dana the cop and the only outed PR would have to be mafia's play night 1, yet Dana got a result. This just strikes me as odd

unvote

just need to figure things out.

2) This, although Robbnva is certainly not high on my townlist, is a good post. If dana is scum, Robbnva certainly isn't.

From a scum point of view, yes it is smart to kill the person who has a history of fake-claiming.
Why? Look how things are playing out.
Do I get why Dana is been allowed to invistigate? A little. In my eyes its more suspicious for a claimed cop to be allowed to investigate then to have him obviously roleblocked.
How would his counter claim be called out in D2 if no one believed DP claimed?

3) And here we have bunnylover explaining (his) scumkills.

FoS bunny

1) Please tell me this is an attack. I'd really like a good laugh.
2) How is it a good post exactly? How the hell did you come to that conclusion? Although I do see that if Robbie's scum, dana probably isn't, I can't so much figure the other way around. How are you so sure?
3) Uhm what? No, what that was was bunny playing the WIFOM game. Which we ALL have (and kind of need to stop)

This is a very poor reason for a vote, and smells like scum panicking to me.

IGMEOY DH

@Xite: Your WIFOM is giving the scumteam waaaay too much credit IMO. The fact that they killed DP instead of someone less easy to mislynch really lowered my expectations of their capabilities.

I kind of saw something similar

I don't think I'm giving them too much credit, I think they're a bit smarter than you want to believe.

1. This makes no sense to me at all, how is me speculating what Dana is doing seem like him and I are buddy buddy?

2. This is an obvious following Xite instead of making your own case

3. Your entire vote history has lacked merit, not once do you make a case on anyone you vote for

1) Why is it that nothing makes sense to you?
2) No it's not, he added his own content, my case on you is based on your play throughout all of day2 and today.
3) I agree with this one here
Your whole set of points here looks a lot like bussing to me...

Anyone who is voting dana just because he's not dead/hasn't been blocked is doing so for a really bad reason. There's too much WIFOM!

PS - I'm with Robb in that it's a little weird that Bunny is "more than sure" of a mafia RB. Yes, it is a fairly standard role, but the degree of certainty is a tad high.

First part; QFT

PS - I am not. Mafia RBers are EVERYWHERE.

I'm not. Roleblockers are so common that they're in newbies and minis. There's, like, a 3% chance there wouldn't be one in a large normal.

QFT

[Shanba]

I checked the completed large normals. The first one (working backwards) with a roleblocker is mafia 107. 108 through 114 had no mafia roleblockers, and neither did 117. Mafia roleblocker is a lot less common than you guys seem to think.

[Xite91]

I checked the completed large normals. The first one (working backwards) with a roleblocker is mafia 107. 108 through 114 had no mafia roleblockers, and neither did 117. Mafia roleblocker is a lot less common than you guys seem to think.

Oh, weird. Every game I've been in (large, small, whatever) had a mafia RBer. Maybe I just pick the wrong games

[Robbnva]

game with PM - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=600

game with QT - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 54&t=15042

site where I play normally on a 3 different mafia private forums - http://goallineblitz.com/game/home.pl