Mini 1039 Lost: Season One (Over)

[BloodCovenent]

Also now that it is revealed that there is a vig or an SK it makes absolutely no sense for scum to kill a beloved princess until the other killing role is eliminated.

Scum didn’t know there was a Vig / SK until after N1 so this argument only applies to why scum would kill jenni, if she is a BP, after today. So this point is moot.

Great hypothesis. However, I was saying for now >.> Not during Night 1.

@BC: I still don't like that you haven't even addressed the fact that dram saved you from being lynched D1. Why do you think he said that we shouldn't lynch you?

What the fuck do you want me to do? Write him a thank you note?

[AGar]

@BC: I still don't like that you haven't even addressed the fact that dram saved you from being lynched D1. Why do you think he said that we shouldn't lynch you?

What the fuck do you want me to do? Write him a thank you note?

I expect it to be on decorative stationery.

---

Dram, getting a lucky flip on Jason and claiming you were right does not constitute a good reason to play based on "gut" and throw all signs of scumhunting to the wind. Still waiting on a reason as to why we shouldn't lynch BC, or yourself for being fucking useless.

CK, nice wall of IIoA.

[BloodCovenent]

Dram, getting a lucky flip on Jason and claiming you were right does not constitute a good reason to play based on "gut" and throw all signs of scumhunting to the wind. Still waiting on a reason as to why we shouldn't lynch BC, or yourself for being fucking useless.

Yea... we're not Dram. that wouldn't be good either >.>

[AGar]

Dram, getting a lucky flip on Jason and claiming you were right does not constitute a good reason to play based on "gut" and throw all signs of scumhunting to the wind. Still waiting on a reason as to why we shouldn't lynch BC, or yourself for being fucking useless.

Yea... we're not Dram. that wouldn't be good either >.>

I do not follow this post at all.

[BloodCovenent]

Dram, getting a lucky flip on Jason and claiming you were right does not constitute a good reason to play based on "gut" and throw all signs of scumhunting to the wind. Still waiting on a reason as to why we shouldn't lynch BC, or yourself for being fucking useless.

Yea... we're not Dram. that wouldn't be good either >.>

I do not follow this post at all.

I mean... what do you want?

[AGar]

I want an explanation. And I want scumhunting, not "gut".

[BloodCovenent]

I want an explanation. And I want scumhunting, not "gut".

I can't account for the second part, but as for the first.... no.

[Ademisk]

@dram: Lets see. I asked you...
1) Why you were surprised that me and jenni lived.
2) wth you mean by "I TOLD YOU SO!"
3) Commented on your bad vote

You...
1) Did not provide any reason for your suspicion of either of us, at all. The only 'case' you had on jenni was her lack of content at the time, which she soon fixed. Also, jenni never claimed BP. I even admitted I wasn't exactly sure what that role is, and since a few people said it might mean something else, I'm in no position to draw conclusions.
2) Did not clarify what you meant by that. In your entire ISO, you never once addressed HH, and me and jenni you barely commented on. Based on MOI's latest post, I'm assuming you might've meant HH, but again, there's that thing of never addressing or commenting on him. No you did not say or imply that HH would flip town. Repeating it over and over will not make it so.
3) Are leaving your bad vote on me based on a gut feeling (for the 2nd time). And because you already assume I'm scum, you shoehorn my claim into your ideal scenario. How about you try scum hunting for real?

PoE tells me Jenni, Jason and Ademisk,

I missed this one in my previous post. How did you arrive at this conclusion? Excluding yourself, BC, Vezok, and Dekes is understandable, but where did FSH, HH, AGar, MOI, and chess go? Another 'gut' feeling decision? Face it, you're grasping at straws.


@BC: Sure . But seriously, him speaking up was probably the only thing that saved your ass D1. The fact that you have completely ignored it seems like you are avoiding it on purpose. Why is that?

[BloodCovenent]

@BC: Sure . But seriously, him speaking up was probably the only thing that saved your ass D1. The fact that you have completely ignored it seems like you are avoiding it on purpose. Why is that?

Oh i know. and... what exactly am I ignoring exactly?

[Ademisk]

Well, ok I guess I did phrase it kind of weird. Maybe there was no reason for you to directly address it, but it would help if you'd shed some light on the situation. As I've asked in post 494, why do you think he did that? What would make him so sure that you would be a bad lynch. What link do you have to him? dram's been all over me for crossconfirming but you guys don't even have that.

[BloodCovenent]

Well, ok I guess I did phrase it kind of weird. Maybe there was no reason for you to directly address it, but it would help if you'd shed some light on the situation. As I've asked in post 494, why do you think he did that? What would make him so sure that you would be a bad lynch. What link do you have to him? dram's been all over me for crossconfirming but you guys don't even have that.

No. Because he knows i'm not scum. no. so what.

-thats all for tonight. goodnight er'one.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Here is the raw data for the Day 1 for VC analysis. It may provide some information today but will be stronger down the line (so if I get killed someone pick it up and update it ).

I have swapped out all replacments so the current player appeaers as all votes in the analysis. Confirmed Town (via Death at this point) is Blue and Confirmed Scum are Red.

Spoiler: Day 1 Raw VCs

Faraseradayaphim

(1):

HackerHuck

vezokpiraka (1):

Faraseradayaphim

chesskid3 (1):

jasonT1981

jasonT1981

(1): chesskid3
Ademisk (1): Dekes

Not voting (7): dramonic, BloodCovenent, AGar, jenniwren, vezokpiraka, MagnaofIllusion, Ademisk

Faraseradayaphim

(1):

HackerHuck

chesskid3 (1):

jasonT1981

Ademisk (1): Dekes
Dekes (4):

Faraseradayaphim

, chesskid3, vezokpiraka, AGar

Not voting (5): dramonic, BloodCovenent, jenniwren, MagnaofIllusion, Ademisk

chesskid3 (1):

jasonT1981

Dekes (3): vezokpiraka, AGar,

HackerHuck

BloodCovenent (2): Dekes, MagnaofIllusion
Ademisk (1): BloodCovenent

Not voting (5): dramonic, jenniwren, Ademisk, chesskid3,

Faraseradayaphim

BloodCovenent (4): Dekes, MagnaofIllusion, chesskid3,

Faraseradayaphim

jenniwren (1):

jasonT1981

Faraseradayaphim

(1): vezokpiraka
chesskid3 (1): BloodCovenent
vezokpiraka (1): Ademisk

Not voting (4): jenniwren,

HackerHuck

, AGar, dramonic

BloodCovenent (1):

Faraseradayaphim

jenniwren (2):

jasonT1981

, dramonic

Faraseradayaphim

(1): vezokpiraka
chesskid3 (1): BloodCovenent
vezokpiraka (1): Ademisk

HackerHuck

(1): MagnaofIllusion
Ademisk (1): jenniwren

Not voting (4):

HackerHuck

, AGar, Dekes, chesskid3

BloodCovenent (1):

Faraseradayaphim

Faraseradayaphim

(1): vezokpiraka
chesskid3 (1): BloodCovenent
vezokpiraka (1): Ademisk

HackerHuck

(1): MagnaofIllusion
Ademisk (2): jenniwren,

jasonT1981

Not voting (5):

HackerHuck

, AGar, Dekes, chesskid3, dramonic

chesskid3 (1): BloodCovenent

HackerHuck

(2): MagnaofIllusion, AGar
Ademisk (5): jenniwren,

jasonT1981

, vezokpiraka, Dekes, dramonic

jasonT1981

(1):

HackerHuck

Not voting (3): chesskid3,

Faraseradayaphim

, Ademisk

HackerHuck

(3): MagnaofIllusion, AGar, jenniwren
Ademisk (6):

jasonT1981

, vezokpiraka, Dekes, dramonic,

Faraseradayaphim

, BloodCovenent

jasonT1981

(2):

HackerHuck

, chesskid3
AGar (1): Ademisk

Not voting (0):

HackerHuck

(3): MagnaofIllusion, AGar, jenniwren
Ademisk (4): vezokpiraka, Dekes, dramonic, BloodCovenent

jasonT1981

(1):

HackerHuck

AGar (1): Ademisk

HackerHuck

(3):

jasonT1981

,

Faraseradayaphim

, chesskid3

Not voting (0):

HackerHuck

(7): MagnaofIllusion, AGar, jenniwren,

jasonT1981

,

Faraseradayaphim

, chesskid3, vezokpiraka
Ademisk (4): Dekes, dramonic, BloodCovenent
AGar (1): Ademisk
BloodCovenent (1):

HackerHuck

Not voting (0):

[MagnaofIllusion]

What can we take from this information at this point –

Jason’s RVS joke vote is for Chesskid. This should be kept in the back of our minds until more flips emerge.

BloodCovenent (4): Dekes, MagnaofIllusion, chesskid3,

Faraseradayaphim

jenniwren (1):

jasonT1981

Jason avoids the BloodCovenent wagon as it forms. He chooses to go after jenniwren as a lurker.

HackerHuck

(7): MagnaofIllusion, AGar, jenniwren,

jasonT1981

,

Faraseradayaphim

, chesskid3, vezokpiraka
Ademisk (4): Dekes, dramonic, BloodCovenent
AGar (1): Ademisk
BloodCovenent (1):

HackerHuck

Jason’s position on the Hacker wagon indicates to me that there is likely only 1 more scum to be found in AGar, jenniwren and chesskid3. Having all three scum on the wagon would long term be very detrimental given VC analysis.

That means one scum is likely to be found among Dekes, dramonic, BC and Ademisk. Two possibly if the Hacker wagon was completely Town / 3rd Party aside from Jason.

The only way I see all three scum on the wagon is if Vezo is scum (which I hightly doubt at this stage) and voted for Hacker after he though Chess hammered. And that makes little sense as he was jumping ‘late’ on a Townie wagon. Which is indeed possible with a rushed deadline vote.

To do later – review AGar / TheLonging ISO.

[chesskid3]

When we lynch AGar and he's scum, I'm going to pull down my pants and moon you all because I called this shit

[dramonic]

@dram: Lets see. I asked you...
1) Why you were surprised that me and jenni lived.
2) wth you mean by "I TOLD YOU SO!"
3) Commented on your bad vote

And I answered all three points in my very last post.
But I'll do it again, since reading doesn't seem to be your forte.

1) It is sarcasm, I am not surprised you two lived although you would be prime scumkill target because I believe you are the remaining scum.
2) I have given my clear opinion that the three scum are Jason, Jenni and you. ITYS in reference to HH flipping scum, because it was obvious from my PoV
3) My vote is not BAD just because it's not explained. My vote is on you, which is on scum, which is therefore good. I am a gut player and I get my reads on how people express themselves, check my meta if you don't believe me (even though meta is crap). I don't build elaborate cases and you'll have to deal with it or Night Kill me.

It's a different playstyle and it's been working so far.

[dramonic]

Dram, getting a lucky flip on Jason and claiming you were right does not constitute a good reason to play based on "gut" and throw all signs of scumhunting to the wind. Still waiting on a reason as to why we shouldn't lynch BC, or yourself for being fucking useless.

It's not a lucky flip though. Unless you wanna call the HH lynch a group-effort "unlucky" flip?
Gut play is not contradictory to scumhunting. There are multiple ways to hunt scum, and gut and motivation psychology is the one I prefer. Claiming your method is better than mine is ridiculous when your method has yet to provide result.

Also, stop rolefishing.

[jenniwren]

For MoI:

I had a vote on BC (Post 260) but removed it when Dram cleared him. It must have been between vote counts; when I removed it (Post 267), I then voted Adem, the next suspect on my list. (Just for record-keeping purposes.)

An ISO of Jason will show him agreeing with FaraSera's vote on me but not placing an actual vote on me (ISO 16). It will then show him voting for me after Chesskid (whom FS had called obv-town at this point) does, making me a "safe" wagon endorsed by a now confirmed town and an obv-town:

Anyway, we should maybe move away from Vez and start to look for actual scum instead of chasing lynchers. I quite like jenniwren for scum right now, Like I said earlier his interactions so far have been almost like he is trying to add nothing, while looking like he is with the lost character talk. I guess you could also see that as slight rolefishing.

vote:jenniwren

Maybe some pressure will hep him give us content

My response to him was..."Rolefishing? How?" (Post 197). Because fluffy or not, I never posted anything that could be misconstrued as rolefishing. (And only three posts were fangirl comments, and the others were posted for specific reasons.) He then backed down from what he had to have known was a bogus claim....

Just with the talk about characters really, it could be fan-girlish i suppose.

When he finally unvoted...

unvote

main reason of my vote was to get Jenni talking more, I thought maybe some pressure would do that. Going to get caught up by tomorrow evening, sorry... just been bloody busy and am behind in all my games this week

No mention of rolefishing; it was never explored or followed up on; he just threw out the word to sound like he was trying to sound like he was scumhunting.

Finally: In looking more closely at the Adem wagon and it's demise: I was the first one to leave it because I believe Adem's claim. Chess comes back "ready to hammer" and finds Adem has been cleared so he votes

Jason

instead (townie points);

Jason

then unvotes Adem and moves his vote to

HH

;

FaraSera

unvotes and moves to

Jason

.


*I also double checked, and the one and only time I ever suggested that the scum might not be main characters was in Post 267, so I'm not sure why you said my "constant" suggestions in Post 438. Just an update: you had proposed the scum might be the raft crew; I'm proposing that they might be some of the caves crew, but I think it's kind of moot to go by names at this point.

Oh yes, and no one has answered me about this yet: how does a Mafia Doctor work? I've not been able to find that anywhere in the wiki.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You could extrapolate from this that any other lynch is bad <_<

Also, I am not lover with BC.

Excluding Hacker from your suspect list really doesn’t scream to me that you should feel vindicated. On the other hand Jason’s flip does should give you a sense of pride.

Ok, if BC isn’t a lover why in the HELL are you defending him? You’ve stated you don’t have Mod confirmation of his alignment. I don’t see much reason other than behind the scenes role-mechanics why you would defend him so much. I’m sticking by my original assertion that we have scum in the BC / AGar / Hacker triumvirate. Hacker has been cleared by flip so I’m not inclined to continue to disregard BC based on your gut.

@Dram

– Please tell me why I shouldn’t be the little bit worried that despite your chest thumping your vote never went on Jason?

What the fuck do you want me to do? Write him a thank you note?

If you are Town your first reaction should be ‘Why in the hell is he clearing me’ because based on what you and dram has said I don’t see clear reason for him to do so. Sticking up for Town is a classic scum-move.

How was chess' fakevote bad? I mean, when comparing a real vote against a fake one, why would the fake one be worse when it deals less damage? The victim remains with 1 less vote, and I could see how you could use it to draw out those interested in getting the lynchee hammered. Though in this case, it was pointless either way since HH was already at L-1.

Well the fact that he pulled it on a claimed Cop which immediately resulted in said Cop’s mislynch should be all the reason you need to consider it a scummy gambit.

@MOI. Post 438. What else could the softclaim mean other than BP?

A lovers mechanic, for one. And just as possible a soft-claim of an important role that jenni felt would be bad for Town to lose. Why are you so sure that it is a Beloved Princess claim, even thought you state you don’t know what that means?

@MOI: Post 488. In respect to jenni's and mine roles, I've proven all that she asked. Like I said, I could prove more, but consider how much the town will gain for knowing I speak the truth (not much, since you don't trust her belief in me) vs the harm that may come from me outing her role.

This really is irrelevant to whether I believe that your ‘proof’ clears you as Town.

Adem said he knew my name and my role. I understood that to mean that he knew my character's name and my assigned role in the game. I had no reason to doubt him, because I AM Walt, and only Michael would have any reason to know that. When he claimed Michael, it would have been obvious who I was. It made perfect sense to me, and it also made sense to me that he would therefore be town-aligned.

Your logic falls apart here when you asset that his claim makes him obviously Town aligned. Jason’s flip as scum throws that out the window. Further consider this fact – Ademisk keeps referring to your soft-claim as BP. Without answering me directly on this consider – would he have any need to keep referring to your soft claim if he had direct role knowledge of your role?

Just an update: you had proposed the scum might be the raft crew; I'm proposing that they might be some of the caves crew, but I think it's kind of moot to go by names at this point.

Oh yes, and no one has answered me about this yet: how does a Mafia Doctor work? I've not been able to find that anywhere in the wiki.

My raft crew comment was to illustrate that Reck could monkey with the flavor in-game any way he wants. After Weeds Mafia he talked about having toyed with making the three kids in the show the Mafia. In It’s Always Sunny Mafia he pretty much looks to have pulled the Mafia and SK out of a hat and tailored the roles to the people. Which is why I’m more interested in interactions and VC analysis at this point than flavor.

A Mafia Doctor works exactly like a regular doctor. They protect someone once a Night from a NK. I personally believe they are much more powerful than regular doctors because –

1. They are part of the informed minority (unless handicapped, which Mods usually do by making them Isolated Traitors [see Victorian Vampire Mafia and ooba’s Mad World Mafia]) so they know who to protect.
2. They usually only have 2 to 3 other players to cover so they they have a better inherent random chance of success as opposed to Town doctors.

[chesskid3]

I am the one who brought up BP. Most people have disagreed with my opinion that Jenni was necessarily softclaiming BP, except for Adem. Why is that, when he's been so questioning of _everything_ before?

[Dekes]

@Dekes: Post 458. Your reasons for voting me were that my suspects were protected, and apparently suspecting them under such circumstances is bad. And yet you are guilty of suspecting me when I am under the same circumstances. Why so?

There's a lot wrong in here. It was decided by the majority of the town that the claimed linked persons should not be lynched unless we had more infos.
Now we do have more infos. We know for example that role names don't determine their alignment.
And I never said you no longer couldn't suspect those people who weren't to be lynched D1. I myself was suspicious of you and BC (and still am), but what you did was that you were still pursuing a lynch of vezo although it had been decided that he was not to be lynched D1, thus you were distancing yourself from any possible lynch.

And I’m no longer going to ignore Dekes as

Claire’s connection with Jack just might be a reason for Reck to have made her scum.

I thought I should address this before this bogus reason will ever be used against me. Beware, Season 3 Spoilers:

It wasn't revealed before midway through S3 that Claire is Jack's half-sister.

Chess, if AGar flipped scum, I'd be looking at you first. Just sayin'.

Of the two linked pairs (Adem - jenni, BC - dram) I definitely get a more scummy vibe from the latter one as a pair. Individually It's still Ademisk.

MoI, I'll definitely follow your VC analysis as it progresses throughout the game though town should not forget that if we go with this D1 VC analysis that you are a possible scum candidate, too. Basing on your playstyle there is absolutely nothing that would warrant me thinking you're scum, but I've been fooled by good scum before.
Despite all your analysis and your stating of your top suspects you still haven't laid down a vote. You aren't trying to manipulate your VC analysis by holding your vote back now, are you?

[Dekes]

EBWOP: Messed up the quote tags. The second quote is directly by MoI, not by dram.

[chesskid3]

Chess, if AGar flipped scum, I'd be looking at you first. Just sayin'.

OH NOZE I SCARED

[Dekes]

How about instead of spamming around you work on that case against AGar you promised pages ago.

I just skimmed your annyoingly long Iso and what I found was lot of spam, a lot of tooting your own horn and sulky comments if you don't wanna face accusations towards you.

There may be a case against AGar, but it's definitely nowhere to be found in your Iso. Not even a single reason. While I believe his case against you based only on that fakehammer gambit is pretty weak, but at least he has a case.

[chesskid3]

Honestly I have better things to do with my time than make a case on a obv scum.

[BloodCovenent]

What the fuck do you want me to do? Write him a thank you note?

If you are Town your first reaction should be ‘Why in the hell is he clearing me’ because based on what you and dram has said I don’t see clear reason for him to do so. Sticking up for Town is a classic scum-move.

No... that wouldn't be my first reaction. for christ's sake. everyone... stop asking why dram was willing to stick his neck out for me.

Honestly I have better things to do with my time than make a case on a obv scum.

orly?