Newbie 1015 -- (Game Over!|Town Win)

[EarthIntruder]

/confirm

Oh haaay, zipper and Thor. I figured I'd see some familiar faces since a bunch of people I'd been playing with immediately signed up again after our games ended. Speaking of, VOTE: Zipper because I thought you were scum last game, jerk >:C

1. What is yor experience in mafia?
2. How often can you post?
3. What do you prefer: a honest townie or a sneaky scum?

1. Well, I'm one of the SEs in this game, this'll be my fifth game on the site. I've played a bit on another forum and in meatspace, as well, but I like it here the best.
2. Minimum once per day is what I aim for. I'm a college senior, so I get swamped with work sometimes, but I've never had to replace out of a game yet, so I'll hopefully never have to in this one.
3. I prefer honest scum. Easiest game ever.

[EarthIntruder]

I approve of this wagon whole-heartedly.

Finner, why mention there's a trap in your questions at all?

Zipper, why criticize Thor for his number two choice when we're two pages in? What do you think early wagoning would tell you, exactly?

Everyone that's hasn't posted more than once yet... um, do that.

[EarthIntruder]

Because we're only two pages in..

Well, yeah, that's my point, too. Anyone's second choice isn't going to be a very good one right now. But I guess going back and forth saying it's too early to tell much isn't really going to help us.

Citing suspicions sans evidence is a form of mudslinging, no? Mudslinging is a scum tactic intended to make a person look more scummy than they actually are. Therefore, I find it completely appropriate to criticize Thor on this point.

True, but I have to agree with Thor that you've been putting words in his mouth a bit. Just struck me as weird is all.

@EI - aren't you one of the low posting people? What are your thoughts on hypocrisy as a scumtell?

Yes, I am, and that post was trying to remedy that. As is this one, which puts me ahead of four other players so far, which, you know, problem. I think hypocrisy is a good scumtell, but moreso later in the game, when scum is more desperate and doesn't realize they're calling people out for things they've been guilty of.

VOTE: Subterfuge

Just randomly voting for now. Now tvellalot, get in here and hit me or something.

Well it wasn't "random" per se. He was just first on the list and has a name that makes no discernible sense to me.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but this looks like you don't think that tvellalot is scum and you also missed the three other votes on him. I find this implausible. Can you defend your actions? I'd also like to hear why you don't think Finner is scum.

Zipper, why just a FoS? Do you think tvellalot is more suspicious than Subterfuge?

[EarthIntruder]

Got to agree that the unvote isn't exactly helping.

Personal experience after that "trap" line. It's... a thing.

Care to elaborate a little?

I'll wait till my next post to start going at other people.

Ok, back to scumhunting: And... I'm not good at coming up with accusation posts yet. I've always been more of a Phoenix Wright than a Miles Edgeworth.

...Still waiting for a scumhunting post.

Well, since every time I type "vote" in some form between

tags people turn incredibly rabid, I just won't vote for the rest of the game, only speculate. Have fun with that.

I promise we're not trying to be assholes, we're just looking for scum. If you really want to prove you're not, then ask questions, analyze, try to scumhunt as well.

Anyway, at this point I don't suspect anyone, even Subterfuge (despite his nasty bastardage).

Why don't you suspect Subterfuge?

EarthIntruder, why tell us you approve of a wagon without providing further insight into why? Was the wagon beneficial merely by existing? I'd say it certainly is now since we've got Subterfuge in an interesting situation, but you posted before his vote, so why not cast one of your own or tell us why you approve?

Yeah, the wagon was beneficial because it existed. Early random bandwagons are a good, easy way to get information from the other players. I would've joined the bandwagon if tvellalot wasn't already at L-2. That'd be too risky.

FoS: tvellalot

Thor is right. Try harder.

Okay, so one thing I should mention about me is that I really don't like FoS-ing. Not to say that I think it's scummy, necessarily, I just think it's a dumb convention. Normally I wouldn't say anything, but I find it interesting that you've switched the players you were previously voting and FoS-ing. Why not ask him something specific if you suspect him? And would I be correct in saying he's your second suspect?

@Finner, ah, okay, I understand. For the record, it might be better to re-phrase your question next time. I didn't realize you were asking us whether we preferred being townie or scum, I just thought you meant which kind of player do we prefer.

[EarthIntruder]

I'm gonna FoS Finner for having nothing negative to say about anyone except the obvious target.

Again, why a FoS and not a vote? Unless I'm mistaken, Finner hasn't got any on him.

[EarthIntruder]

There's also something else about you that isn't quite setting right with me... Though I'll sit on this info until a more appropriate time.

Are you saying that you just have a bad gut feeling, or is there something specific bothering you that you don't want to talk about yet?

And those of you talking about me and my AtE: Get used to it. I will probably appeal to emotions a lot. Not for any sort of devious way. That's just the kind of person I am.

Whether this is true or not, AtE's not very helpful to town and people are going to undoubtedly find you scummy for it.

I used FoS because I feel like things are getting serious, and I don't want to lightly throw a vote around. When I feel confident enough to vote, I will. Rather than ask "why FoS?" why don't you address my concerns and try to persuade me one way or the other? Complaining about FoS doesn't help us find scum. I'm using it as a tool to help everyone know what I'm thinking, and trying to write as to why. I think it's a mistake to try to make the game more binary, i.e. I either vote for someone or vote for no one, with no middle ground, because that's not how suspicion works.

I just think FoS is sort of a silly convention since you can just as easily put pressure on someone by saying you also suspect them and continuing to question them. A lot of times people will just FoS without saying much else, which in my opinion doesn't have an effect.

Regarding your feelings on throwing votes around, I totally disagree. I think it's important to be aggressive with your vote, especially day one, and especially especially when you're suspicious of someone that doesn't have any votes on them already. Why are you hesitant to place even the first vote on someone?

Ibarra and Finner both seem to be getting flack for "following the crowd" which I'm not sure is an entirely fair accusation this early in.

@Finner, you previously said Subterfuge was your top suspect but you've also said your suspicion of tvellalot is growing and you kept your vote on him. Which one is your top suspect now?

@Ibarra, who would you say is your second choice?

[EarthIntruder]

@tvellalot I notice that most of the things you now mention that you find suspicious of zipper came before your post #60, where you say you don't find anyone suspicious. What changed?

Thor's post reminded me of that, so I responded to him in an offhand manner without realizing the implications of WIFOM. As a rule, playstyle shouldn't be taken into consideration against a player, and that statement from me would be best left alone as its WIFOM.

"I realize that statement was WIFOM. But seriously, you shouldn't vote for me when I seem scummy. But ignore when I said that, because it was WIFOM."

[EarthIntruder]

@Iaonious: I don't retract my opinion that zipperflesh was buddying Thor. I'm also going to say that you're now buddying zipperflesh.

What exactly do you define as 'buddying'? It seems to be an accusation you're making quite a bit.

So, you vote for zipper, then say it's just an effective FoS, and unvote him once he and responded to your accusations. That, and you've already said that you don't find anyone else suspicious yet is making you look pretty wishy-washy and scummy to me. I'd switch my vote if it didn't put you at L-1.

So, you admit to using faulty logic to make me look bad.

Where does he do this?

@

Finner

, once you're back, really want to hear what you think of both tvellalot and Subterfuge now.

@

Thor

, was your statement about being willing to lynch zipper a joke?

[EarthIntruder]

However, subtle buddying is when someone says ANYTHING positive about anyone. This is a game of lying. I don't understand how anyone trusts anyone. I see WIFOM on top of WIFOM within EVERY post. Nothing is said or done that couldn't have a second meaning. I trust no one. You're all scum as far as I'm concerned.

For someone that's so paranoid I don't see you making a whole lot of other accusations, though. I could buy voting for someone without necessarily wanting them lynched, especially this early in the game (although announcing it pretty much kills the pressure) but if you're seeing scummy things in every post, I don't see why you wouldn't re-place your vote on someone else. Or like, point them out.

@zipper

You fault my logic

and go on the counter-attack. Thus, it neither clears you from being scum or confirms you as being town.

Oh, okay. Didn't see that at first. Can you explain what you meant by this, tvellalot?

@

Subterfuge

, you seem pretty quiet all of a sudden now that the suspicion's off of you. Are you still suspicious of Ibarra?

@

roundabout

, I notice you haven't said much about tvellalot besides agreeing with his analysis. What are you thoughts on the wagon on him?

[EarthIntruder]

I completely understand why you vote is on me, but if you're not committed, perhaps you should turn your attention on someone else. Doing so is hardly going to make you forget your suspicions of me. After all, even if I was scum, I'd have a partner wouldn't I?

Still looks like it could be a scumslip this way to me.

Do you think that looking for scumteams is a good tactic?

I'm also a little confused, you mention being experienced in mafia, but you also seem to be playing the newbie card somewhat as well. Could you explain how much mafia experience you have and where?

@

laonious

, what's your opinion on Thor?

@

Zipper

, have you got a number two suspect?

[EarthIntruder]

@EI - it wasn't a scumslip. The rest of your post remains obv. town - thank you for trying to be different from everyone else.

That doesn't look like one to you?

[EarthIntruder]

Scum don't scumslip by saying "I am scum and I have partners" that's not a slip.

That's pretty much how I interpreted that sentence, myself :/ A scumslip, as I understand it, consists of scum accidentally saying things that would reveal they're scum - so yeah, that includes revealing they know something they shouldn't know as town, but I've seen scum make small Freudian slips and say things from the perspective of a scum player. That sentence didn't sound like something a townie would say to me.

I guess, if I was going to pick a new person to vote, it'd be Ibarra.

Zipper, why'd you change your vote? Nobody was asking you to change it, I just wanted to know if you suspected anyone else.

UNVOTE: Subterfuge
VOTE: tvellalot

Yeah, not letting you off the hook yet, either.

[EarthIntruder]

@EarthIntruder

Do you think that looking for scumteams is a good tactic?

I'm also a little confused, you mention being experienced in mafia, but you also seem to be playing the newbie card somewhat as well. Could you explain how much mafia experience you have and where?

[EarthIntruder]

I don't feel that my vote will get anything more out of tvellalot. I'd still consider lynching him, but I'd like to see some other player's pressured as well. I'm not sold on an Ibarra lynch, but of the few I have mentioned suspicion of he's the one I want to hear out of the most.

Fair enough. I thought it was a little strange given that Ibarra hadn't posted in a few days, but now that he has, that changes things.

I also find it interesting that your latest post came shortly after being voted for, Ibarra. You also seem to be repeating points that have already been made, as other people have pointed out - is there anybody else you suspect?

@Mod, is Subterfuge due for a prod soon?

[EarthIntruder]

Tvellalot's still my top choice for today's lynch. Subterfuge would probably be my second choice, but I'd prefer to hear from him or his replacement before I make up my mind about that. Barring Subterfuge, my second choice would be Ibarra. Zipper weirds me out a little, but I might just be biased from last game, and either way, it's not enough to vote for him yet.

Still, there's no need to panic, we've got five days to deadline and we've already had two pretty strong wagons. I don't think we're going to have too much trouble coming to a consensus.

Ibarra and Finner, I want to hear a definitive top two choices from both of you and why. Especially from you, Finner, since your vote's never changed at all Day 1 and that strikes me as weird.

@Ibarra, what do you think of zipper's vote on you?

[EarthIntruder]

Accck two days to deadline. Sorry about my lack of postage lately, I'm kind of a mess. Would've liked if we could've gotten Subterfuge replaced before the day ended, but I guess that's not going to happen until Day 2. I'd like a tvellalot lynch, but I'd be willing to switch to Finner mayyybe. I dunno if it's possible in this short a time period, though.

Thor, what about Finner's active lurking strikes you as different than Ibarra?

[EarthIntruder]

Good point. Why do you think he's a better lynch than tvellalot? I haven't seen tvellalot do a ton of scumhunting, either.

[EarthIntruder]

Seems a little shaky to base a vote on another player's actions to me, but I also don't think I feel quite as weird about zipper as you do, so there's that.

Okay. I have a lot of free time Tuesday night and Wednesday afternoon, so I can easily change my vote back if I have to.

UNVOTE: tvellalot
VOTE: Finner

@

Finner

Why do you think the tvellalot wagon was the best thing for town, and what do you think the best thing another player's done for town is? (any other player, but preferably an active one)

@

tvellalot

You haven't said much about your suspicion since your vote on roundabout. I want to hear your top 2 with good reasons, ASAP.

@

Everybody

How much do you think you'll be able to be around this thread within the next two days?

[EarthIntruder]

Just peeking in to say: Guuuh. Class until about 8, I'll post something substantial after that.

[EarthIntruder]

If you don't believe its an easy trick to fall for, just look at EI who completely went along with what you were saying without so much as batting an eye.

Hey, don't make me out to be a helpless confused damsel (mansel?) to make your case on Thor look stronger. It's not like I didn't think about my vote.

Long story short, I think your case on Thor is mostly based on paranoia towards him. Plus, isn't calling a player suspicious early in the day and then voting for them later exactly what you're doing?

Deadline's tomorrow at 4 (in eastern time, anyway), and by my count, roundabout, tvellalot, Subterfuge and Ibarra are all due for a prod or replacement. Should we ask for an extension?

@

Finner

Thor covered this, but:

If you're a townie, aren't you supposed to stay out of the heat and try to hunt scum? That is what I think, at least. I thought that I should let you discuss it a bit, and start defending myself properly only if I am under larger attacks.

Yeah, you don't necessarily have to defend yourself from small attacks, because, yeah, scumhunting is more important, but that's just it, you haven't scumhunted. You've been on the same wagon the entire Day 1 and your top two hasn't changed at all despite you being fairly active in posting. I know you're new, but that looks more like newbie scum than newbie town to me.

[EarthIntruder]

Two hours to deadline? I think? My time might be off but wevs. Can we all agree on a wagon soon? Just to restate I'm fine with a Finner or tvellalot lynch. I'm not sure which one I prefer more anymore at this point, in light of tvellalot's disappearing, but seeing as there's only four of us around right now, I'm thinking tvellalot might be the only option.

Unvote, vote tvellalot

@Maemuki, is a deadline extension possible, or no?

[EarthIntruder]

Fuuuuuu-

[EarthIntruder]

Sigh. My record is not looking good right now. I think I'm gonna take a break for a while.

I actually didn't intend to bus tvellalot as hard as I did at first, I was hoping I could find a way out of it before deadline the whole time, which is why I switched to Finner, which I guess is what cost us the game. I figured someone else was bound to do something I could say was scummier, but it didn't really happen. Sorry, tvella >_<

Did you really think I was town, Thor? I thought you were suspicious of me, and I considered knocking you off first instead but I figured the whole thing between you and zipperflesh was a good enough distraction that I could risk it and got rid of someone with a fresher perspective on the game instead.

[EarthIntruder]

Haha, sorry about that nameloc. I just figured someone with a fresher perspective on the game just coming in was more likely to figure out who was scum. Not that that mattered, anyway...