Newbie 1015 -- (Game Over!|Town Win)

[zipperflesh]

Zipper, why'd you change your vote? Nobody was asking you to change it, I just wanted to know if you suspected anyone else.

UNVOTE: Subterfuge
VOTE: tvellalot

Yeah, not letting you off the hook yet, either.

I don't feel that my vote will get anything more out of tvellalot. I'd still consider lynching him, but I'd like to see some other player's pressured as well. I'm not sold on an Ibarra lynch, but of the few I have mentioned suspicion of he's the one I want to hear out of the most.

[Ibarra]

Gah. Sorry guys been really busy. I'll consider replacing out if things get too hectic for me.

tvellalott

- Says that his experience in mafia is extensive, but is worried when RVS bandwagoned.
- I'm still concerned about his "not suspecting anyone even Subterfuge (despite his nasty bastardage)" statement. His comment implies suspicion, but at the same time he claims to be is not suspicious of him.
- Voting while claiming it being a FoS. Then retracting it to being a pressure vote instead.
- Made lots of AtE ; Major AtE - "Just lynch me and be a typical fail-town."
- The "After all, even if I was scum, I'd have a partner wouldn't I?" definitely lost some town points for you. Why would a townie claim scum, even hypothetically, just to prove a point, when he can do it without hypothetically claiming scum?

tvellalott is starting to look scummier than Subterfuge, but maybe it's because Subterfuge hasn't been posting at all.

[tvellalott]

Gah. Sorry guys been really busy. I'll consider replacing out if things get too hectic for me.

tvellalott

1) Says that his experience in mafia is extensive, but is worried when RVS bandwagoned.
2) I'm still concerned about his "not suspecting anyone even Subterfuge (despite his nasty bastardage)" statement. His comment implies suspicion, but at the same time he claims to be is not suspicious of him.
3) Voting while claiming it being a FoS. Then retracting it to being a pressure vote instead.
4) Made lots of AtE ; Major AtE - "Just lynch me and be a typical fail-town."
5) The "After all, even if I was scum, I'd have a partner wouldn't I?" definitely lost some town points for you. Why would a townie claim scum, even hypothetically, just to prove a point, when he can do it without hypothetically claiming scum?

tvellalott is starting to look scummier than Subterfuge, but maybe it's because Subterfuge hasn't been posting at all.

You know, all those things have already been mentioned and addressed which makes your post essentially useless, but since you've made such a nice list...

1) I wasn't worried when RVS bandwagoned (look at my second post). I was worried when I was pressured to post some analysis on someone and then voted for when I did it. It's just annoying.
2) I don't see him putting me at L-1 as scummy. I don't know how else I can explain this. Being anti-town doesn't equate to being scum. It just seemed careless. Scum are usually especially careful.
3) I don't understand why this is such a big deal or the target of any suspicion. It was the third page for fucks sake. He didn't have any other votes on him. I am a strong believer in putting my money where my mouth is regarding suspicion, so I did. I voted for him for pressure. I did find the posts I quotes as suspicious.
4) Well, I feel like the target of a witch-hunt. Perhaps I let it get to me, but when I repeat myself over and over, it get frustrated.
5) This suspicion I KIND of understand... perhaps it was the wrong thing to say. In my defense, I was answering the question of 'why should i put my vote on someone else'. I didn't just come out of the blue and say that. Also, where do I claim to be scum. Sure I could have said "Even if I was scum, which I'm not, I'd have a partner wouldn't I?", but townies don't need to say they aren't scum.

@roundabout
Prior to you voting for me immediately after I voted for you, I really just picked you over Ibarra because I felt like it. Your name was easier to remember how to spell. However, since you almost immediately counter-attacked, your vote on me seems hugely OMGUSish, considering your previous post seems to indicate you agreed with me about a lot of what you went on to vote for me for.

@EarthIntruder

[laonious]

Today is my day off, so I'm shooting for a more in-depth post than I can usually make during the week : ).

That being said, I'm far from committed to a lynch. I see what suspicions I have as simply that, suspicions. I tell everyone about them and see what responses I get. If you'd like to change my vote, reason with me : )

I completely understand why you vote is on me, but if you're not committed, perhaps you should turn your attention on someone else. Doing so is hardly going to make you forget your suspicions of me. After all, even if I was scum, I'd have a partner wouldn't I?

You were fair when I raised a good point, so I must recognize when you have as well. Looking back, I've seen the tendency in myself in this and other games to sort of get "tunnel vision." You are, however, absolutely right. I've made my suspicions of you clear, I certainly don't need to keep my vote on you to make that point. I will however note that I, like many others, are disturbed by your hypothetical "if I were scum..." There's no reason a townie should ever say something like that.
I originally had an unvote typed in here, but after looking through everyone's posts, I simply don't see anyone who strikes me as more scummy than you. As a result, I'm going to leave the vote there, but try to take your advice in focusing on some other players for a while.

Moving on...

Thor

Yeah, I'm feeling tvellalot town right now, methinks we can do a better lynch today then him.

What made up your mind about this? Looking through your past posts, I see a rather abrupt switch in you from talking about other people to suddenly proclaiming a town feel for tvellalot. Can you share your thoughts on this? Admittedly, his comment was pretty bad, but it seems like you've lent it a lot of weight. I'm new to this, but it seems slightly over reactive. Were you only getting a slight town feel? Or just think the comment was -very- scummy?

Ibarra

I'm concerned by your posts, but its tough to draw conclusions from them. Looking through, it seems like your infrequent posts usually target whomever the current "hot" target is. It could definitely be because you don't post very often, and your reasons are the same as everyone else's. This could come off as scum trying to follow the crowd though. I'm slightly suspicious.

[EarthIntruder]

@EarthIntruder

Do you think that looking for scumteams is a good tactic?

I'm also a little confused, you mention being experienced in mafia, but you also seem to be playing the newbie card somewhat as well. Could you explain how much mafia experience you have and where?

[EarthIntruder]

I don't feel that my vote will get anything more out of tvellalot. I'd still consider lynching him, but I'd like to see some other player's pressured as well. I'm not sold on an Ibarra lynch, but of the few I have mentioned suspicion of he's the one I want to hear out of the most.

Fair enough. I thought it was a little strange given that Ibarra hadn't posted in a few days, but now that he has, that changes things.

I also find it interesting that your latest post came shortly after being voted for, Ibarra. You also seem to be repeating points that have already been made, as other people have pointed out - is there anybody else you suspect?

@Mod, is Subterfuge due for a prod soon?

[tvellalott]

@EarthIntruder

Do you think that looking for scumteams is a good tactic?

I'm also a little confused, you mention being experienced in mafia, but you also seem to be playing the newbie card somewhat as well. Could you explain how much mafia experience you have and where?

Yes. I do think looking for scum teams is good tactic. People can certainly give away a lot by their interaction with people. I'm always looking to see the relationships that are between players; for anything out of the ordinary.

Well I've come to learn that mafia on this website is nothing like the mafia I've played elsewhere.
I've played a ton of EM and while it does teach you elements of the game, it is very, very different.
I've also played a dozen forums games on another website. That are also very different to this. I think that has to do with everyone knowing each other outside of the game. Since I don't know any of you and you don't know me, my playstyle is obviously getting me in a lot of trouble. I don't apologise for that. In fact, I learn a lot from the few games I've played on this site because I realise I need to be a lot more analytical in my approach.

@Ibarra: Thank you.

[tvellalott]

EBWOP: @laonious: Thank you.

[Thor665]

Thor

Yeah, I'm feeling tvellalot town right now, methinks we can do a better lynch today then him.

What made up your mind about this? Looking through your past posts, I see a rather abrupt switch in you from talking about other people to suddenly proclaiming a town feel for tvellalot. Can you share your thoughts on this? Admittedly, his comment was pretty bad, but it seems like you've lent it a lot of weight. I'm new to this, but it seems slightly over reactive. Were you only getting a slight town feel? Or just think the comment was -very- scummy?

Sort of feels like you're asking two questions here with an awkward transition between them. I'll answer both.

I switched over to a town feel for tveallot (at the post you quoted) for reasons that are hard to explain beyond going 'gut'. When I read his last few posts at that point something in me felt that the things he was saying were honest and the energy there was more about honest frustration rather then annoyance at being caught out as scum.

I then reversed my position with the phrase I quoted later - I did so because that phrase struck me as scummy for reasons I've already stated and when the above reresents my town read on him it was clearly a fragile creature that was easily clubbed to death in the streets.

We need Subterfuge or his replacement in here and then town should probably start consolidating towards a lynch, I think we've got enough talk for day 1 at this phase.

[Finner]

Just noticed that the deadline is really near. 6th Wednesday. We need the prods soon.

I'll pm the mod.

[zipperflesh]

Wow, this game's moving faster than my last two.

Really want to hear from Sub.

While I'd be happy with either a tvellalot or Ibarra lynch, I'd rather see Ibarra lynched.

[Thor665]

I'm not sold on an Ibarra lynch, but of the few I have mentioned suspicion of he's the one I want to hear out of the most.

What changed?

I'm probably leaning a Subterfuge or zipperflesh lynch, though Sub's hardcore lurkout/flake is making that slot a royal pain to get a solid read on.

[Thor665]

And looking again, I'd still be game to run up Finner too, he's active lurking methinks.

[EarthIntruder]

Tvellalot's still my top choice for today's lynch. Subterfuge would probably be my second choice, but I'd prefer to hear from him or his replacement before I make up my mind about that. Barring Subterfuge, my second choice would be Ibarra. Zipper weirds me out a little, but I might just be biased from last game, and either way, it's not enough to vote for him yet.

Still, there's no need to panic, we've got five days to deadline and we've already had two pretty strong wagons. I don't think we're going to have too much trouble coming to a consensus.

Ibarra and Finner, I want to hear a definitive top two choices from both of you and why. Especially from you, Finner, since your vote's never changed at all Day 1 and that strikes me as weird.

@Ibarra, what do you think of zipper's vote on you?

[zipperflesh]

I'm not sold on an Ibarra lynch, but of the few I have mentioned suspicion of he's the one I want to hear out of the most.

What changed?

I'm probably leaning a Subterfuge or zipperflesh lynch, though Sub's hardcore lurkout/flake is making that slot a royal pain to get a solid read on.

#151

Ibarra keeps doing the same thing he's been doing, repeating what's already been said without adding anything new. He's only attacking those who've already been attacked.

Nothing's changed in his behavior since I cast my vote on him, a vote I don't think he's even mentioned.

[Thor665]

So you have acurrately assessed him as not being good at scumhunting. Why do you think it's scummy behavior and not newbie behavior?

[Finner]

@EI

My suspect number one:

Tvellalott

-voted "wishy washily"
-"After all, even if I was scum, I'd have a partner wouldn't I?" Weird thing for a
townie to say in my opinion
-his first post really gave me a scummy read. "Carry on" especially.

And second:

Subterfuge

-yes, his first vote feels scummy to me, but especially becouse of this:
-one of his reasons for the vote was "He was just first on the list". That is weird, becouse Tvella wasn't first in the list.

[Maemuki]

Vote Count:

tvellalot >[

3

]< ~ Finner, laonious,

zipperflesh

, Earth Intruder
Subterfuge >[2]< ~ Thor665,

EarthIntruder

, Ibarra
Ibarra >[2]< ~ roundabout, zipperflesh
Subterfuge >[1]< ~ tvellalott

Not Voting:

Subterfuge

~Subterfuge has been prodded. Sorry for not saying this earlier.

~~With 9 alive, 5 to lynch.
~~Deadline is Wednesday, 6th of October 2010, 8 pm GMT.

[zipperflesh]

So you have acurrately assessed him as not being good at scumhunting. Why do you think it's scummy behavior and not newbie behavior?

I'd classify tvellalot as not being good at scumhunting (no offense), since he seemed to have made a mistake. I'd classify Ibarra as being lazy, its a cop-out to repeat the same stuff that's already been said by other people. This is also the second time Ibarra has done this, the first being Sub. Its like he's attacking the easy targets, and thats something I see scum do all the time.

--------------------------

Now that we're coming to the end of day, do you care to share you insight on Finner now?

[Thor665]

Vote: Finner

Coasting scum is coasting.

@zipperflesh - how do you consider your tell on Ibarra to apply/not apply to Finner?

[Thor665]

Didn't I owe you another explanation besides just the Finner one? Also, I'll explain Finner more a little bit later, day isn't over yet.

[zipperflesh]

Didn't I owe you another explanation besides just the Finner one? Also, I'll explain Finner more a little bit later, day isn't over yet.

I believe you mentioned something, but I think I understood where you were coming from.

I hadn't noticed anything from Finner, but let me read back and I'll answer you question. Its possible that Finner just escaped my notice.

[zipperflesh]

@zipperflesh - how do you consider your tell on Ibarra to apply/not apply to Finner?

It does apply to Finner, and I called attention to him in #79 as well. It seems he manged to escape my suspicions as the day wore on because he posted stuff, it just wasn't anything of content. You could say he is actively lurking, thus your accusation of coasting is true.

Ibarra on the the other is more of the classic lurker, only posting when called upon. So he's scummy too...

I may or may not switch my vote once I hear Finner's defense.

[Finner]

I have posted things that were useful to town in my opinion.

I have told my suspects, explained my cases against and voted. I have shared my reads. I just don't have other things to say. I try to figure out who is scum; tough I admit that I'm not really good in it. Well, I'll learn.

I have told all ideas I have. That's all.

PS: what does "coasting" mean?

[Thor665]

Coasting; to act or make progress without making much effort.

@Finner - what would you say has been your best contribution to town thus far?

I'll have another exciting question after I get some more of zipperflesh's opinion on you - this may or may not be a "cunning trap" for you and/or him.