/in-vitational Game 8 - Nito City (over) after 1015

[Locke Lamora]

Well, early on I thought Jack's obscurity wasn't really helping and didn't serve much of a purpose other than to confuse and annoy the town, which I thought was scummy. Several other people said it was his playstyle, so I didn't really make too much of it. I don't think there was much else I said about Jack until D3. My scum read went up then because I'd caught up with everything I'd missed D2 and reviewed him in the light of Jason's flip.

I do notice now that scum-CDB was one of those people who called Jack town for meta reasons. Point in favour of Jack being town, I think. The only other thing CDB says of note about living players is that he's very non-committal about Magna's L-1 vote on Charlie. I expect that's him keeping his options open for later. Ythan's vote on Jack comes when Zajnet is the leading wagon and Sotty had just started a Jason wagon. Hard to tell much from this vote, given the lack of other Ythan contributions and the fact it puts Jack under relatively little pressure.

[Incognito]

Vote Count #2 of Day 5

Zajnet (1) <-~ Jack
farside22 (1) <-~ Porochaz

Not voting (4) <-~ farside22, Locke Lamora, MagnaofIllusion, Zajnet

6 living; 4 will do it.

Deadline:

Saturday, October 2nd at 5:30 P.M. EST

[Jack]

We have a scummy lurker. You do not not lynch scummy lurkers.

[Jack]

Although Locke is possible. One or the other, lets lynch one and see.

[Jack]

No it's totally zajnet. Come on.

[Locke Lamora]

Looking back, I think scum go after Jack too much for Jack to actually be scum. The only real point in Zajnet-town's favour is that Zach puts the third vote on him to make his wagon more viable when Charlie was leading. Zajnet's contributions obviously win him no town points whatsoever.

Vote: Zajnet

Convince me who's scum if it's not you.

[Zajnet]

We have a scummy lurker. You do not not lynch scummy lurkers.

Isn't that what you define me as? A scummy lurker?

As to who's scum if it isn't me, I really don't know. I think that Jack wouldn't be tunneling on me this hard if he was scum, because then it would look really bad for him when I flipped town. The recent exchange between Poro and Locke doesn't really help me out with either of them, I still have a null read on both of them. I'm confused as to why MOI isn't being looked at more thoroughly as possibly scum right now. I'm getting a scummy vibe from MOI, especially in that s/he hasn't done any analysis except for VC analysis, which can be made to look however you want because its all a big case of wine. In fact, MOI is easily my scummiest read right now.

VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

[Locke Lamora]

I think Magna has contributed more than just VC analysis and he went pretty hard at Jason in the first place. Are you saying that the rest of Magna's posts are analysis-free?

[Zajnet]

I think Magna has contributed more than just VC analysis and he went pretty hard at Jason in the first place. Are you saying that the rest of Magna's posts are analysis-free?

Well, I know that's what I actually said, but that's not entirely what I meant. I didn't mean to say that Magna had

no

analysis besides VC analysis, I meant to say that the bulk of Magna's analysis was VC analysis that would be incredibly easy to skew.

[Incognito]

farside22 has been prodded.

[farside22]

Hey all. Sorry I have been really busy. I'm planning a big party for this Saturday and haven't had time to read or sit for more then 10 minutes at the computer.
I hope (cross fingers) to have time tomorrow to read and respond to this game.
Right consider me on Limited Access this week. I still have a few things I need to get done for this party and not enough time.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Recent post reaction –

Have I? I dont need it if your away too.

I absolutely loathe this post. Why do you feel you don’t need to contribute just because the Mod might be V/LA?

On the heels of all your ‘can’t get into the game’ posts that rings false.

The only other thing CDB says of note about living players is that he's very non-committal about Magna's L-1 vote on Charlie.

Locke can you clarify what you mean here? I wasn’t the L-1 vote on Charlie. Do you mean vice versa?

@Zajnet re 631

– You are complaining about my scum-hunting and contributions? Really? Ok, guess any port in storm.

Other issues

–

At this stage my VC analysis leads me to Locke, Poro and Zajnet as my likely remaining scum suspects.

My review of each of their ISOs is as follows –

Zajnet

–

ISO 0 – RVS vote for CDB / Ythan / Erg0. You don’t strike me as someone who would think too deeply about that sort of obvmove.

ISO 2-6 is basically you dittoing Farside in the early Day 1 attack on me.

After a couple of “I’ll post later / VLA comments” at 10 you hammer Charlie pre-claim.

Your next post the is really game-relevant at all is your late vote of the CCed Jason, despite the fact that you haven’t mentioned Jason / Zach in anything other than passing.

I am stumped by my semblance of a reread. Nobody really jumps out to me as scum. Sando, Poro, and Jack all exhibit elements of scumminess, but nothing blatantly a scum-tell. I need to reread looking specifically for connections to Jason now, but a preliminary look over MOI's analysis seems to show that Sando is the scummiest because of voting patterns. However, I am not comfortable enough in that to vote for anyone, especially with Sando at L-2.

Lots of fence-sitting and lack of commitment here. Sando, Jack and Poro scummy but not. You specifically mention a Jason re-read that never materializes.

ISO 17 – “I'm going to sound like lurking, wagoning scum, but that's OK.” – pre-emptively attempting to ward of questions about your play. A minor direct scum-tell.

ISO 20 – “I have nothing more to add than that Jack is obvscum.” Interesting how that suddenly changes overnight.

ISO 22 – Yet another vote for scum after nary a mention of them in your ISO.

ISO 23 – WIFOM at its heart. I’d like to hear your response to Locke’s question on that front.

Porochaz –

ISO 0-2 interestingly contain votes – farside (RVS), Zaj (to wagon) and Jack (for the whole role-fishing fiasco).

ISO 3-5 is general responses to his Jack vote. I’m noting not a lot of quoting going on.

ISO 6 – Comments that IKD / vollkan is fine (assuming this is code for a Town read) and Sotty hasn’t made good post to date. Follows up with a Sotty vote at ISO 8.

ISO 9 to 13 is back and forth explaining why Sotty is scummy.

ISO 19 – Begins questioning of farside’s play.

ISO 20 – Votes for Zajnet. This avoids either Charlie’s or my competing wagons. This votes stays there until the end of the day. No mention of Zach / Jason or CDB / Ythan during the day.

ISO 22 – First mention that he can’t get a ‘hook’ into the game..

ISO 24-26 – Spam focused on what a Goon Cop is. More theoretical discussion.

ISO 27 – More defense of his playstyle and inability to ‘get into the game’.

Ok so I read back from page 10 and I said before its about as funny as scraping my eyeballs out with a rusty nail in that,

I would have been voting Charlie by the end of day 1, and I would be voting Jason here.

(I am going to let him answer farsides question though) …
Stop doing it. I've enjoyed vollkans posts so far, beyond him defending me slightly, they have been fairly interesting

would look to hear more from Ythan - he seems quite banterous as well.

Emphasis added - Notice the soft support for voting Jason despite not mentioning the slot once before this point. Also seems to be prodding Ythan to be more active. The day ends shortly after this post with no vote from Poro for the Day.
In ISO 33 we get his read on the Erg0 slot is that the slot has failed to post a lot but Erg0 will. The ISO lists Sando and farside as the only scum reads.

ISO 36 begins a long string of meta arguments regarding his play here differing from scum games. It tapers off at ISO 45

ISO 49 – More apologies for his lack of content and contributions and another vote for farside.

Locke Lamora

–

ISO 0 – RVS vote for Sotty

ISO 1-3 contains significant commentary regarding Zach and Sotty’s early sniping. No direct interactions with Zach, however.

ISO 4 to 10 that strikes me as Pro-Town. I disagree with his assessment after the fact on several issues but he address numerous people (although not the Jason or Erg0 slots) on a variety of issues. Reads as real scum-hunting.

ISO 11 – “Hi Ythan. Who's scum?” Fairly friendly opening considering how CDB lurked.

ISO 12-13 – Back and forth with Sotty regarding Zach, ends with a Zach vote (2nd on the wagon)

ISO 15 – Returns vote to Zajnet (previous suspect). Seems to be willing to work in tandem with Sotty.

Sando I think blatantly damns himself by not mentioning Zach or Jason for the entire game, as far as I can see, despite the fact that Jason was a major topic of discussion yesterday and Zach's scumminess was being shouted by Sotty for all of D1.

Locke a question for you – given you thought Sando was scummy for avoidance of Jason’s slot what do you think of Zajnet and Poro on that account for both Jason and Erg0’s slots?

Also from 18 –

The CDB/Ythan/Erg0 slot is similarly devoid of any useful content. That recent catch-up post by Erg0 is the first time any genuine analysis has come out of that slot. Would like to see a lot more firm opinions on who's scummy in his next post as I feel like a lot of his conclusions are quite ambiguous.

Never follows up on this prompting. On the heels of his Ythan soft greeting this looks suspect.

From this point his ISO spends a lot of time delving into Sando’s scum meta play and Zajnet until the Day ends with Sando’s lynch. He’s understandly absent for the short Day 4.

Conclusion

–

At this point all three of them don’t have stellar interaction records with Jason or Erg0’s slots.

Locke’s ISO reads much more to me as someone actually hunting scum but still lack significant interaction with those slots. The fact that he spent significant time focused on Zajnet as a low performer but more or less ignored CDB / Ythan is troubling. I'd rate him as a distant third in the best lynch department.

Poro and Zajnet’s ISO are more or less devoid of any scum-hunting at all. It’s really a coin-flip for me whether Poro’s weak voting record and general wagon avoidance or Zajnet’s late voting / potential bussing is more vote-worthy. Really both look like worth lynches.

VOTE: Zajnet – This is L-1. I’d like to see a concerted effort for you to actually look at the game and make a solid case for someone.

[Incognito]

Let's pick up the posting, all. I really don't want to mass prod you.

[Porochaz]

Im waiting for farside to post about how scummy I am.

In response to MoI, your word choice is not good. I may go into it later, but not just now.

[Jack]

Someone hammer.

[Zajnet]

Someone hammer.

lol.

[Porochaz]

Id rather have farside way in first. Besides I like my vote where it is for the moment, no need to rush anything.

[Porochaz]

Weigh even, not worth a doublepost but it annoys me so much.

[Locke Lamora]

Magna: yes, I mean the L-1 vote on you. I was reading in ISO and misinterpreted the point of that line.

On the topic of Jason/Erg0 avoidance: first off, I don't treat this as a general scum-tell, I just thought it was something Sando had a tendency to do as scum, which obviously proved to be unreliable here. Sando also directly ignored Sotty asking him about Jason and claimed he didn't see the need to respond to it, which didn't improve my opinion of him. As for how it affects my Zajnet and Poro reads, I've pretty much been treating Zajnet as null on that front, as he has so little content of note. The only thing I would have been confident about saying of Zajnet is that he wasn't scum with you, which we now know for sure anyway. Poro, as I've stated, seems like he's genuinely struggling to get into this game and I think a lot of his lack of interaction is down to that. Maybe it's because I've recently modded him as scum, I'm not really sure, I just know I've thought he was town pretty much all game.

As for not following up, I'll have to confess that I was a bit too interested in my Sando-scum theory to look at other players much.

I agree with Poro, I want to hear more from Farside before we lynch anyone.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I certainly have no problem waiting for Farside to actually weigh-in.

At this point Zajnet isn't going to hammer himself if he is the last scum.

Mod - As usual I'll be V/LA until Monday for normal family duties.

[Incognito]

Bump.

[Zajnet]

So are we just waiting for farside?

[farside22]

I'm sorry things are just too crazy for words for me. I realize that as much as I really wanted to play mafia I have no time for it.

Mod: I'm going to need to be replaced.

I'm very sorry.

Replaced by boberz. - Incog-mod

[Jack]

JUST HAMMER ZAJNET

[Porochaz]

unvote vote zajnet