NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[Robbnva]

1. This makes no sense to me at all, how is me speculating what Dana is doing seem like him and I are buddy buddy?

2. This is an obvious following Xite instead of making your own case

3. Your entire vote history has lacked merit, not once do you make a case on anyone you vote for

1) Why is it that nothing makes sense to you?
2) No it's not, he added his own content, my case on you is based on your play throughout all of day2 and today.
3) I agree with this one here
Your whole set of points here looks a lot like bussing to me...

1. because he provided no evidence of me being buddy buddy with dana, and I doubt he would be able to since it never happened
2. he did not add anything of value, just a made up statement with nothing to support it
3. meh, your opinion means dick to me
last i checked townie can't buss mafia, unless there is some new rule I missed.

[Robbnva]

game with PM - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=600

game with QT - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 54&t=15042

site where I play normally on a 3 different mafia private forums - http://goallineblitz.com/game/home.pl

on the last one, send a PM to papa zito if you want him to verify there are mafia forums on this site

[flinter]

1) No mention of benmage-scum. Just a simple continuation of what he has said yesterday. Plus that the argument he uses is a bad one. As long as there were two wagons the previous day, one could always use this argument to make a continuation of the previous idea. Nothing says that one of the wagons had to be on scum.

So I have a question, if mafia had a role blocker what would the reason be they did not block Dana? Dana the cop and the only outed PR would have to be mafia's play night 1, yet Dana got a result. This just strikes me as odd

unvote

just need to figure things out.

2) This, although Robbnva is certainly not high on my townlist, is a good post. If dana is scum, Robbnva certainly isn't.

From a scum point of view, yes it is smart to kill the person who has a history of fake-claiming.
Why? Look how things are playing out.
Do I get why Dana is been allowed to invistigate? A little. In my eyes its more suspicious for a claimed cop to be allowed to investigate then to have him obviously roleblocked.
How would his counter claim be called out in D2 if no one believed DP claimed?

3) And here we have bunnylover explaining (his) scumkills.

FoS bunny

1) Please tell me this is an attack. I'd really like a good laugh.
2) How is it a good post exactly? How the hell did you come to that conclusion? Although I do see that if Robbie's scum, dana probably isn't, I can't so much figure the other way around. How are you so sure?
3) Uhm what? No, what that was was bunny playing the WIFOM game. Which we ALL have (and kind of need to stop)

1) I assume you are talking about the first part of the post. Not everything is an attack. I just hope some people would play more protown.
2) it is fresh, and he started the "why wasn't dana blocked" discussion. It is a protown post. Did you disagree?
3) You are misunderstanding me. When you start arguing why a DP kill makes sense, you are crossing the line of WIFOM. He justifies the scums kill. He even calls it smart. This has nothing to do with WIFOM. WIFOM is about: "what would scum do". Bunnylover is talking about what scum did.

and do you disagree with everything I say? Because you just ridiculed every single point of my post.

[Xite91]

game with PM - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=600

game with QT - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 54&t=15042

Your first link;

site where I play normally on a 3 different mafia private forums - http://goallineblitz.com/game/home.pl

You are a

Mafia Goon

, and are a member of the Mafia with X, a [Mafia Goon/Mafia Roleblocker]. You can talk to X at Night and also kill someone each Night. Aside from that, all you have is your word and your vote.

You win when all Pro-Town players have been eliminated (or nothing can prevent this) and at least one Pro-Mafia player is still alive.

The Game Thread is here. Please confirm in thread.

You are a

Mafia Roleblocker

, and are a member of the Mafia with Y, a Mafia Goon. You can talk to Y at Night, kill someone each Night, and also prevent someone from using a Night action at Night (i.e., roleblock them). Aside from that, all you have is your word and your vote.

You win when all Pro-Town players have been eliminated (or nothing can prevent this) and at least one Pro-Mafia player is still alive.

I could not find anything in the roles or the sample pms that said that you could day talk through PM

Your second link;

White Flag Mafia Rules

Please note three

fairly unique

rules:

1. This game uses instant night, so all action choices must be given before the thread is locked for night.

2. All votes and unvotes must be proceeded by ##. For example, ##vote: Zoraster
3. There is a posting restriction of 1000 words per post in this game.

Instant Night

1. Instant night means that all actions must be turned into the mod before the night begins. These actions may be submitted during the day or during twilight (the period between the “hammer” or majority vote and when the thread is locked for the night).
2. Twilight will end when I get to the game, so you should not count on being able to submit your action at this point.
3. You may change your night action as many times as you want during the day or twilight with no penalty.
4. If you do not submit an action before night falls, you will not perform the action. Thus, it is in your best interest to always submit an action and then change it as the day progresses.

5. Finally, please note that the mafia team has day talk abilities.

It should be obvious here that the reason you have daytalk abilities is because of the unique ruleset (it would be really hard to win as mafia if you can't talk to each other and coordinate things at all, and with instant night, well you get the picture)
Honestly, do you lack all kinds of common sense, or just most of them?

[Xite91]

1) I assume you are talking about the first part of the post. Not everything is an attack. I just hope some people would play more protown.
2) it is fresh, and he started the "why wasn't dana blocked" discussion. It is a protown post. Did you disagree?
3) You are misunderstanding me. When you start arguing why a DP kill makes sense, you are crossing the line of WIFOM. He justifies the scums kill. He even calls it smart. This has nothing to do with WIFOM. WIFOM is about: "what would scum do". Bunnylover is talking about what scum did.

and do you disagree with everything I say? Because you just ridiculed every single point of my post.

1) Yeah, I meant the first two sentences or so. Sorry, thought I deleted the rest. Okay, just had to clear that up.
2) No, it's not. WIFOM is never pro-town, especially when it's obvious something was done solely for WIFOM purposed. Him starting that discussion makes me feel like he's not so great of a scum player (AKA his scumbuddies said, "lets do this so they'll do this" and he saw that we were avoiding doing what they wanted, so he's start it up.)
3) Did scum not kill DP? What other purpose but to get us thinking "why?" would it serve? Honestly. I don't see that as a bunny scum-slip. I just feel like, if you're going to attack someone, do it for the reasons that are OBVIOUSLY scummy, instead of the ones you have to stretch. You can add those in, but you really don't have ANY other evidence as to why bunny is scum? None at all?

[Xite91]

@robbie - as for your link to the other site, I could not find forums and will not go as far as signing up for an account to find something that may or may not be true.
Papa Zito then comes into mind because IIRC, you said he was also on that site, so I will see...

@mod - is it against the rules to ask someone to confirm that robbie plays on the other site if it's game related, or is it okay to do so as long as the game itself isn't mentioned? If necessary, I well send you a sample of the pm in order to get it approved

[flinter]

2. it is quite unlikely that scum wouldn't block the single strongest town powerrole available in a normal game. It is quite likely that scum fakeclaims cop. Soooo, why do you completely avoid this by saying "WIFOM is bad"?
3. Right. why would it interest us? why is bunny talking about it? why is he, of all kills, explaining the DP one?

And you are right, this isn't my first point on bunny. But this is a big one, esspecially for the reasons you mentioned: of all kills, you don't want to analyse the DP kill, and if someone says the DP kill was smart, you have something very weird going on. Bunny isn't town, because town wouldn't post it.

[Xite91]

2) Cops aren't the strongest town powerrole, in fact, letting the cop live and do his thing (aka not roleblocking him) means that we open WIFOM on ourselves AND we start to "follow the cop" which means that when he DOES die, we don't know that to do next. I can guarantee scum is trying to get us to do one or the other, probably the first in this scenario. And I'm trying hard to avoid it because it does NOTHING FOR US. At best, it dilutes the thread like crazy and we lynch one scum, but have very little info to go off of tomorrow because everyone's tunneling the claimed cop. At worst, same exact thing, except he IS the town cop. Until I see a counterclaim, I have no reason to NOT believe Dana, and therefore I will. Also, think of it this way, if we keep the "cop" around a bit longer and he tells us his reads, we can get something from it when he does die whether he flips town OR scum. Oftentimes, if scum claims a cop and stays alive, he will inno a townie or two, then one of his scumbuddies, and then call guilty on a scumbuddy. A stronger form of bussing. Yes, this is VERY WIFOMY, but I'm just saying, it is more beneficial for us to keep him around right now.
3) I don't know, maybe because that was the discussion of the time? Honestly, I too believe it was a smart move on mafia's part, and have said so. Same with what they did last night. Either way, we probably don't have to worry about another scum RBer, so lets just wait and watch with dana, and move on to other players.

@EVERYONE - I would like to point out that, thought this post is huge, I would suggest reading it. It really has some controversial views that might at least get you thinking.

It's really sad that I have to take measures to make sure people actually read... just want to say that.

[flinter]

[/quote]2) Cops aren't the strongest town powerrole, in fact, letting the cop live and do his thing (aka not roleblocking him) means that we open WIFOM on ourselves AND we start to "follow the cop" which means that when he DOES die,

we don't know that to do next.

I can guarantee scum is trying to get us to do one or the other, probably the first in this scenario. And I'm trying hard to avoid it because it does NOTHING FOR US. At best, it dilutes the thread like crazy and we lynch one scum, but have very little info to go off of tomorrow because everyone's tunneling the claimed cop. At worst, same exact thing, except he IS the town cop. Until I see a counterclaim, I have no reason to NOT believe Dana, and therefore I will. Also, think of it this way, if we keep the "cop" around a bit longer and he tells us his reads, we can get something from it when he does die whether he flips town OR scum. Oftentimes, if scum claims a cop and stays alive, he will inno a townie or two, then one of his scumbuddies, and then call guilty on a scumbuddy. A stronger form of bussing. Yes, this is VERY WIFOMY, but I'm just saying, it is more beneficial for us to keep him around right now.[/quote]

lol. And I dare you to give me one game where a fakeclaimed cop claimed a guilty on his buddy. Otherwise it is better just to take the more likely approach where Dana is just a fakeclaimed cop who stayed a life because he is mafia and the SK/VIG doesn't want to kill him and forgot to claim that he... was... roleblocked.

wait, why would dana forget such a thing if he was scum?

unvote

[Xite91]

lol. And I dare you to give me one game where a fakeclaimed cop claimed a guilty on his buddy. Otherwise it is better just to take the more likely approach where Dana is just a fakeclaimed cop who stayed a life because he is mafia and the SK/VIG doesn't want to kill him and forgot to claim that he... was... roleblocked.

wait, why would dana forget such a thing if he was scum?

unvote

So... uh, you... I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Do you now believe what Dana's saying?

[flinter]

Your post still doesn't make sense. For once, try to take this game as a game of possibilities. It makes your scumhunting more accurate.

about dana: It makes no sense whatever way you put it.

If dana was a scumbuddy of benmage, he was aware there was a mafia roleblocker, and would have claimed blocked in stead of an innocent result on David. (unless he was scared that someone else would counterclaim being blocked)
If dana is town, scum wouldn't be so stupid not to accurately block a cop. A cop which gives inno's that they'll have to kill if they don't want to make their lynchpool smaller, or who might investigate one of them.

[Xite91]

Your post still doesn't make sense. For once, try to take this game as a game of possibilities. It makes your scumhunting more accurate.

about dana: It makes no sense whatever way you put it.

If dana was a scumbuddy of benmage, he was aware there was a mafia roleblocker, and would have claimed blocked in stead of an innocent result on David. (unless he was scared that someone else would counterclaim being blocked)
If dana is town, scum wouldn't be so stupid not to accurately block a cop. A cop which gives inno's that they'll have to kill if they don't want to make their lynchpool smaller, or who might investigate one of them.

I am taking it as a game of possibilities I'm giving you ALL the possibilities as you're only looking at the few.
Here, I'll do it this way.

Dana
-Is town
--Is a Cop
---Scum kill dana, he's a confirmed cop, they use a NK
---Scum block dana, he says he was blocked, everyone believes him and we move on
---Scum let dana do his thing, we open a huge can of WIFOM.
--Is Vanilla or another role (I have sadly seen something similar to this happen)
---Do I really need scenarios for this one?
-Is scum
--He will probably eventually give us one guilty of at least one of his scumbuddies.

What were yours again?

[flinter]

Lol. You have 3 more possibilities: dana gets blocked (didn't happen), dana gets killed (didn't happen), dana is vanilla (you don't actually go in to this). So seriously, stop acting superior. You are making a fool of yourself.


Xite, on a certain moment Dana dies. "Opens a can of wifom" means that the answers come more slowly. If dana dies on any moment now, you become confirmed town. If dana on a certain moment has more innocent results alive then townies still alive, the game is won if he is town. This means that scum can't let a cop live indefinately, as for a town the amount of information is enough on a certain moment.


and Xite, give me one game where a fakeclaimed cop claimed a guilty on his buddy. It's ridiculous.

[evilpacman18]

@x go look at the 2 games I was mafia, beleive one was a newbie game, we could talk via PM and white flag mafia we had a qt and were allowed to day talk.

The rest I can't respond to on my phone But no I never read war and peace just like I don't read most of your posts. They eventually got to the point where it became faulty logic and baseless accusations.

This is faulty logic and a baseless accusation.

Sorry, I skimmed through that whole thing.

I don't see how danakillsu's claim a few days ago was OBVIOUSLY fake, especially after DP's flip. I can understand Reck's reasoning with that, but I don't necessarily agree with all of his reads. For example, I find Poro one of the scummiest people here, so don't associate him with Reck as far as reads go. However, I do feel like dana's faking it now that this WIFOM bullcrap has been going on.

So, yeah, you seem to know a lot about dana's role. This in particular stands out:

When dana flips scum, I'd like him to be lynched.

You seem to know a little too much.

Unvote, Vote: evilpacman18

This vote doesn't have much merit and seems pretty forced to me.

It also reeks of OMGUS.

That's exactly what it is. I'm actually pretty surprised. DH may be sucky scum, I've seen his town play and he never did anything that pathetic.

1. This makes no sense to me at all, how is me speculating what Dana is doing seem like him and I are buddy buddy?

2. This is an obvious following Xite instead of making your own case

3. Your entire vote history has lacked merit, not once do you make a case on anyone you vote for

1) Why is it that nothing makes sense to you?
2) No it's not, he added his own content, my case on you is based on your play throughout all of day2 and today.
3) I agree with this one here
Your whole set of points here looks a lot like bussing to me...

1. because he provided no evidence of me being buddy buddy with dana, and I doubt he would be able to since it never happened
2. he did not add anything of value, just a made up statement with nothing to support it
3. meh, your opinion means dick to me
last i checked townie can't buss mafia, unless there is some new rule I missed.

This is turning into a slap fight. Probably town v. town. Your guys' little argument here is more about differing pro-town opinions than anything else. Let's focus on getting the scum here. (Meaning that the flinter vs. Xite thing needs to stop too, arguing over theory is never helpful and yet it always happens.)

[Robbnva]

@xite that first game, go to the end, somebody asks for a qt and I tell him it was PM only

oh but now I think of it, it was only at night. My mistake

[Xite91]

Lol. You have 3 more possibilities:

dana gets blocked (didn't happen), dana gets killed (didn't happen), dana is vanilla (you don't actually go in to this)

. So seriously, stop acting superior. You are making a fool of yourself.


Xite, on a certain moment Dana dies. "Opens a can of wifom" means that the answers come more slowly. If dana dies on any moment now, you become confirmed town. If dana on a certain moment has more innocent results alive then townies still alive, the game is won if he is town. This means that scum can't let a cop live indefinately, as for a town the amount of information is enough on a certain moment.


and Xite, give me one game where a fakeclaimed cop claimed a guilty on his buddy. It's ridiculous.

I gave those three points... and I gave a few other points. I'm not sure what you're saying here. Also, I'm not acting superior, I was just pointing out that I AM looking at all the possibilities and the reason we were in the argument in the first place was that I was trying to show you the other possibilities. Not sure how I'm making a fool of myself.

Not really, considering that it's very little information and quite a bit of speculation. That only really dilutes the thread. But scum will readily let a cop live and get their reads so that town will do exactly what you're doing, which is why I'm saying that Dana speculation needs to stop altogether in order to get more out of today.

I will, but again, remember how many games I've read. I will give you links when I sort through them.

[Robbnva]

I'll give you benefit of the doubt X for now cause I guess I could see that happen(although unlikely)

vote hip hop

votes no reason
laying low and active lurking

[Antihero]

Also, think of it this way, if we keep the "cop" around a bit longer and he tells us his reads, we can get something from it when he does die whether he flips town OR scum. Oftentimes, if scum claims a cop and stays alive, he will inno a townie or two, then one of his scumbuddies, and then call guilty on a scumbuddy. A stronger form of bussing. Yes, this is VERY WIFOMY, but I'm just saying, it is more beneficial for us to keep him around right now.

I don't know about that example you gave... I've never actually seen that happen and I don't think someone would be reckless enough to actually attempt such a gambit.
But you're right that a dana lynch isn't the play for today.

*sigh* I hope flinter is proving to everyone that this WIFOM is fruitless and has "red herring" written all over it.

For once, try to take this game as a game of possibilities. It makes your scumhunting more accurate.

Please don't condescend.
And for someone who is preaching to Xite about taking everything into account, you aren't taking everything into account. Let me throw a couple of wrenches into your theory:

• A watcher kind of functions as a protective role. If dana is visited by someone, a watcher would probably conclude it was either a) a kill or b) a roleblocker (remember: the doc is dead). Since dana didn't die, that would immediately out the mafia RB.
  
• Godfathers are a fairly common role. If the scumteam had reason to believe the cop would most likely investigate their GF over the rest of the team, they might take a chance and let the cop "confirm" a possible GF.

That's the last thing I'll say about this stupid discussion. If I haven't demonstrated by now why this is completely pointless, I don't know what more to tell you.

This is faulty logic and a baseless accusation.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here...

[danakillsu]

I'm going to have a hard time answering all the questions and attacks directed at me tonight, but for now, just remember that me not being roleblocked is just as much WIFOM as me not dying and that the two could easily go hand in hand.

[Xite91]

I'm going to have a hard time answering all the questions and attacks directed at me

tonight

, but for now, just remember that me not being roleblocked is just as much WIFOM as me not dying and that the two could easily go hand in hand.

Now this IS interesting, but I'm not sure whether to call it a scumslip because that would mean that at least a few people asking him questions would also be scum with him... Eh, I'll just take it as tonight IRL for now.

[evilpacman18]

I'm going to have a hard time answering all the questions and attacks directed at me

tonight

, but for now, just remember that me not being roleblocked is just as much WIFOM as me not dying and that the two could easily go hand in hand.

Now this IS interesting, but I'm not sure whether to call it a scumslip because that would mean that at least a few people asking him questions would also be scum with him... Eh, I'll just take it as tonight IRL for now.

This is ridiculous. Clearly he meant real time.

[Xite91]

I'm going to have a hard time answering all the questions and attacks directed at me

tonight

, but for now, just remember that me not being roleblocked is just as much WIFOM as me not dying and that the two could easily go hand in hand.

Now this IS interesting, but I'm not sure whether to call it a scumslip because that would mean that at least a few people asking him questions would also be scum with him...

Eh, I'll just take it as tonight IRL for now.

This is ridiculous. Clearly he meant real time.

Bolded for irony.Everything else said in my post that you'r quoting is more for me to remember IF dana flips scum

[Wraith]

Xite, stop nitpicking. It's bad for my reads.

[Xite91]

Xite, stop nitpicking. It's bad for my reads.

Again, sorry, they're more reminders for myself so that way I can go, "well so and so flipped scum, so so and so is also scum because of these posts here" instead of "so and so flipped scum, so so and so is also scum, but I can't remember why I thought that."

Which one would you prefer?

[UltimaAvalon]

UA, today you need to add something. I don't care if you have gut suspicions that you can't quite crystallise, you need to add something concrete to proceedings.

In all honesty, I'd much rather sit back and let everything happen around me, while saying useless quips like. "You're all mostly idiots for putting Dana in the position he's in, and then lynching him for it" or "I don't think Robb knows what Active Lurking is" or even "Wraith is still not scum and Gorrad needs a bop on the nose for denouncing NK speculation".

but that's just me