NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[Gorrad]

@Flinter:
Dana is obviously #2 on my scumlist, but so far all the scum in this game have been on the sidelines, only talking enough to not be prodded or seem scummy. Like, for example, you and hiphop, neither of which I like. I don't see any ties between Wraith and other people, but I don't really look for those. I tried that one game and it utterly failed for me.

[Gorrad]

Clarification: In the game in question, I did NOTHING but look at ties. I'm not saying that looking for them isn't a valid form of scumhunting, it's just one I don't generally do any more.

[Kise]

I don't think it's wrong to lynch dana at this point. Roleblocking a claimed cop for 2 nights would make sense if Benmage & nhammen are not aligned with dana. Xite's iffy stance on the matter is noteworthy, and could implicate him later if dana flips scum.

D2, I mentioned that out of Mysterio and Wraith, Wraith was the likelier one to be scum, and also a viable bus for his scumbuddies. The combination of Benmage (known scum) and Xite (probable scum if dana is scum) on Wraith's wagon makes my little "equation" add up, so to speak. If I can run my mouth (err, fingers) for a bit, I think a reasonable lynch sequence would be dana > xite > wraith, if and ONLY IF the former player(s) in the sequence flip scum. It comes down to being one of those scenarios where there's no questions asked. Just do it.


I haven't forgotten about you, Poro. For the time being, there are other.. more interesting developments. I was wrong about Wicked, so, who knows whether I'm wrong with you. That would mean my Godfather-hunting skills are not perfected like I thought they were. BTW, I still need students to take under my wing

[Gorrad]

Bleh. It DOES seem likely they'd RB him, doesn't it. It just seems like a boatload of WIFOM, and we could very well be lynching a cop right after we lynch a doc. I'm getting CRAZY bad vibes from it, but I can't see why they wouldn't RB him. It's my own argument used against me by myself- Which would help them more: Setting up WIFOM, or not getting caught by the cop.

I reserve the right to change back if I manage to counter my own logic. Wraith still needs to be lynched tomorrow if not today. And I really don't see Xitescum.

Unvote, Vote: Dana

Also, late EBWOP: 1650 should read obviously ROBB is second on my scumlist.

[Gorrad]

Dana, working off a theory, I want to confirm:
1) Your role name, no variations, is 'cop'
2) You can investigate one (1) person a night to see if they're _____ (fill in the blank. Scum? Anti-town? Evil? I don't want you to quote)

Basically, is there ANYTHING in your role PM that would suggest you are not a normal cop who finds scum? If you're telling the truth and you're lynched, this will likely be important.

[Lowell]

18 people left. Not lynching claimed cop. Rolefishing pointless. Back to poro.

[Robbnva]

Kise I think lynching Dana can be postponed one day, I do like the fact you are looking for the godfather. What is your opinion on hip hop?

Who besides Dana would you personally try and lynch?

[Shanba]

UA, today you need to add something. I don't care if you have gut suspicions that you can't quite crystallise, you need to add something concrete to proceedings.

In all honesty, I'd much rather sit back and let everything happen around me, while saying useless quips like. "You're all mostly idiots for putting Dana in the position he's in, and then lynching him for it" or "I don't think Robb knows what Active Lurking is" or even "Wraith is still not scum and Gorrad needs a bop on the nose for denouncing NK speculation".

but that's just me

In all honesty, I don't give a flying dingo's kidney about what you'd rather do. Hrmf.

Tell me, what do you make of Gorrad?

Despite the fact that I sometimes find myself agreeing with xite and sometimes disagreeing with him, the discussions involving him tend to be the worst in the game. Regardless, he's pro-town, so this boring stuff between him and flinter is, well, boring.

[UltimaAvalon]

Tell me, what do you make of Gorrad?

Gorrad has a good head on his shoulders. He doesn't post as much as others, but the times he does, they usually make good points. He was absolutely right to call us out for lynching without a claim, which I shoulda done on my L-2 vote but forgot. The only thing I find wrong with his play is bits like

Pre-emptive IGMEOY: The first person to speculate on the night actions.

If memory serves, he made a similar post Day 2, refusing to acknowledge 2 scum teams.

Overall, A strong player, whose bits that I found off or scummy aren't enough to counteract his overall aura of townlieness

[Gorrad]

Tell me, what do you make of Gorrad?

Gorrad has a good head on his shoulders. He doesn't post as much as others, but the times he does, they usually make good points. He was absolutely right to call us out for lynching without a claim, which I shoulda done on my L-2 vote but forgot. The only thing I find wrong with his play is bits like

Pre-emptive IGMEOY: The first person to speculate on the night actions.

If memory serves, he made a similar post Day 2, refusing to acknowledge 2 scum teams.

Overall, A strong player, whose bits that I found off or scummy aren't enough to counteract his overall aura of townlieness

Thanks : )

Do you think that possible information gained from speculation is worth the distraction it provides from scumhunting?

[UltimaAvalon]

Do you think that possible information gained from speculation is worth the distraction it provides from scumhunting?

I've always been of the opinion that good speculation is a better supplement to scumhunting than no speculation at all. I can see you coming from a position that too much speculation, speculation going the wrong direction, or relying on Night speculation entirely can be a distraction or a scum smokescreen, but to forbid it outright denies us a valuable tool.

[Gorrad]

While it does have the potential to be valuable, I agree, I've been in too many towns that got completely derailed by speculation. I find that attempting to stop it entirely at the very least will limit it to an acceptable level.

But enough on that : )

[Xite91]

I don't think it's wrong to lynch dana at this point. Roleblocking a claimed cop for 2 nights would make sense if Benmage & nhammen are not aligned with dana. Xite's iffy stance on the matter is noteworthy, and could implicate him later if dana flips scum.

D2, I mentioned that out of Mysterio and Wraith, Wraith was the likelier one to be scum, and also a viable bus for his scumbuddies. The combination of Benmage (known scum) and Xite (probable scum if dana is scum) on Wraith's wagon makes my little "equation" add up, so to speak. If I can run my mouth (err, fingers) for a bit, I think a reasonable lynch sequence would be dana > xite > wraith, if and ONLY IF the former player(s) in the sequence flip scum. It comes down to being one of those scenarios where there's no questions asked. Just do it.


I haven't forgotten about you, Poro. For the time being, there are other.. more interesting developments. I was wrong about Wicked, so, who knows whether I'm wrong with you. That would mean my Godfather-hunting skills are not perfected like I thought they were. BTW, I still need students to take under my wing

I'm not sure why, but this whole post has my gut screaming "bandwagoning scum!"
I see a lot of words, but nothing adding those words together or making an actual case. Also, go ahead, lynch dana, I very much doubt that he'll flip scum, and then will you just go back to poro?

Holy hell, well there you are, UA, it's nice to see you again.
If you're taking requests, I'd like to know how you feel about these people
Flinter
Hip-hop
Kise
Robbie
Bunny
and the two new guys (DH and.... I don't remember the other one)

[evilpacman18]

You STILL don't know my name? >_<

[Flameaxe]

Votecount 3.2

Dana [5] (evilpacman, Wraith, Prozac, DemonHybrid, Gorrad)

Prozac [2] (Shanba, Lowell)
Wraith [2] (Dana)
Rob [2] (Xite, hiphop)
UltimaAvalon [1] (UltimaAvalon)
Bunnylover [1] (Antihero)
Hiphop [1] (Rob)

Not Voting [4] (Kise, Singersigner, My Milked Eek, Bunnylover)

With 18 alive it will take 10 to lynch, and 9 to no lynch.

---

Deadline:

Not currently in place.

Activity Check: My Milked Eek will be prodded.

[danakillsu]

danakillsu

I'm going to ignore everything from him on Day 1. That's been discussed enough. Day 2 is where his cop claim starts to fail to make up for scumminess.

Got an inno on DavidParker, but as you can see, that doesn't help us much. I'm surprised scum killed him, seeing as he didn't seem likely to be a cop anyway.
vote: Wraith
I would be very glad to lynch the scum any day of the week.

This is where is starts. We now know there was a scum Roleblocker - why didn't they block the claimed cop? They killed the other, but the more probable claimed cop got away scot free? I'm surprised this wasn't brought up during Day 2. He also immediately jumps on my bandwagon for no reason. As far as I can tell, dana had absolutely NO suspicions against me during Day 1 and gave none during Day 2.

Why am I more probable claimed cop? Even if I was, scum could have kept me around so that you would think this and they could kill two birds with one stone. I think they could see that a lynch on me was pretty much just a matter of time. Your saying that I had no suspicion of you the first two days makes me lol so hard

Strange that Wickedest will vote almost anyone except Wraith.
He's definitely someone to look at as a scumbuddy if Wraith flips scum as expected.

He begins putting out seeds of doubt on Wickedest, the most obvtown player in the game, solely for defending me. Let me bring up this point in my defense: why, when so many people were arrayed against me Day 2, and with the threat of "obvious Day 3 lynch" looming because of Mysterio's flip, would I use the Mafia's kill on the person who MOST STEADFASTLY BELIEVED MY INNOCENCE? No amount of WIFOM makes that a good decision on my part. I'll also bring up that Dana's activity dropped sharply during Day 2, when he was in the clear, cruising on his cop claim, and sitting on a strong wagon.

In Star Wars Mafia, I NK'd the people that defended me as scum and consequently survived at least two days with everyone firmly believing I was scum. Sounds a lot like your situation, doesn't it? Your activity does the same thing btw, and besides, Day 2 was slow for everyone

Is it so odd for a player to have a town read? Just because you believe someone is scum doesn't mean they are, and moreover, just because you think someone is obviously scummy doesn't mean it's true.

And your point is...?
If I think Wraith is obvscum, then I think anyone who ignores his scumminess and votes just about anyone else is also scummy. That is called consistency. If you don't agree, you don't agree, but this statement is pointless.

Shanba's post was in response to dana's attack on wicked for defending me. Dana uses this to try and turn the town against the second-most obvtown player in the game. Note: Shanba is a very probable candidate for tonight's nightkill.

Um, what? I didn't try to turn the town against Shanba at all. I just said that his defense was entirely pointless. That's called an argument, not an FoS.

If he was town faking a daykill, he would be doing it to try to keep Wraith alive. And if he wanted Wraith alive, he wouldn't have put his vote there for so long. So unvote vote: Mysterio
I kind of like the case on him, and it's a good place to rest my vote while I try to figure out who besides Wraith is scummy.

Believing I am inevitably dead, dana shifts to the next-best wagon, and also states that he'll lose his tunnel vision. Yet he immediately puts his tunnel vision goggles back on when the daykill is confirmed fake. Oh dear. "Captain, my sensors indicate a strong scum reading on this next post"

Conveniently ignoring the fact that I said I was trying to figure out where else to put my vote

It is still my opinion, in fact. Robbnva kind of beat me to the punch.

Why did we need to post our suspicions of other people when we already have a lynch candidate for the day. That would only give scum more information.

So yeah, what you did was good...for scum.

This is dana actively advocating that we not post suspicions on other people other than me. What happened to "I'm going to start figuring out who besides Wraith is scummy"? Scum have all the information they need - everyone else is an enemy, they must die. Posting SCUMREADS on other people are only going to help them choose who not to kill yet.

I said I was going to figure out who else was scum because of Xite's misdirection. And yes, that's exactly what posting scumreads on other people will do. That's why I don't think it's a good idea. Besides the fact that it gives them some nice WIFOM involving killing people who post suspicions on non-scum.

My opinion on walls of text.
Gorrad: town
Xite: scummy
Robbnva: neutral
Mysterio: town
hiphop: scummy
If the Wraith wagon actually does fall apart, I would definitely vote for hiphop or Xite, preferably hiphop, since Xite hasn't been too scummy before this whole thing.

Dana had a strong suspicion of hiphop throughout Day 1, but chose to lynch me over him. Could be evidence of scumbuddy distancing, especially since hiphop has been lurking almost the entire game, popping in only to push mislynch wagons. Xite is the third-most obvtown player in this game, but lost townpoints in everyone's eyes from the fake daykill. I've stated this before: SCUM HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO FAKE HAMMER/DAYKILL SOMEONE THEY ARE ALREADY ABOUT TO LYNCH, AND DERAILING AN INEVTIABLE LYNCH OF A SCUMBUDDY IS AN INCREDIBLY STUPID THING FOR SCUM TO DO AS IT DRAWS SEVERE AMOUNTS OF ATTENTION ONTO THEM. The "scumminess" of Xite revolves around this, but Xite, after Shanba and Wicked, is the ONLY townie to bother taking off tunnel vision goggles and scumhunt other people than the most popular wagon.

Um, seriously, what's with you calling the three people who defended you the most obvtown people? They certainly aren't obvtown to anyone else.

Why is it ironic and why are you seeing this as a scumteam?
I think you're just mad because I pointed out your scumminess in derailing the Wraith wagon, voting for Wraith again, and unvoting him again. Wishy-washiness on the main wagon is extremely scummy.

Ultra-extreme tunnel vision (plus lurking and poor voting reasons) is much more of a scumtell.

hy am I a silly cop? I've only investigated one person and it made sense. And I for sure wouldn't allow myself to be directed now that EVERYONE has said not to direct me.

It might have made sense but he was dead, and therefore the result was easy to lie about.

It made sense either way, in other words, which is why I was saying I was not silly. I can't prove I'm not scummy, because that's a matter of opinion, but calling me silly is unnecessary.

Inno on Xite was my result. I didn't investigate Wraith because I figured it would be too obvious and scum might be able to affect it somehow (like a lawyer or framer). So I wish to lynch Wraith like we should have yesterday. vote: Wraith

And this is the crown jewell of my collection. I've already pointed out how full of craplogic this is. The only thing that doesn't make sense is why dana is confirming Xite as innocent despite having pushed his scumminess so much during Day 2. Here is a cop-paste of my first attack on this post:

Let me get this straight: you didn't want to investigate me (and therefore prove my innocence) because you thought a scum framer could frame me? And then you want to lynch me anyway despite thinking the MAFIA would frame me?

But let's move on to the second part of my critique of this single post:

1. Why did you get a result at all? According to Natural Action Resolution, the block comes before the kill, so if you were blocked (and you should have been by a sane scumteam if they killed Wicked) you should not have a result even though the RB died.

2. WHY ARE YOU EVEN ALIVE? The Doctor is dead, the best possible choice by a sane scumteam would have been to kill you, the claimed cop who has POSTED RESULTS.

Theories at this point:

1. Dana is a ScumCop

I don't know how likely this is on ModMeta, but it's possible based on his play and investigation results.

2. Dana is lying

Equally plausible is that Dana is not a cop at all. Innocent on a confirmed dead VT is more than possible to fake. Xite is obvtown, the result can be faked almost as easily.

I am 99% sure dana is scum. If he had claimed a guilty on Xite that certainty would be 100%.

Predit: It doesn't matter if you said framer OR lawyer. You're still saying you thought I would be framed by someone and that was why you didn't investigate me, yet still vote for me anyway.

On this last part:
Dude, how stupid are you? This logic simply does not work. If the framer was on you, and you were town, I didn't want to be investigating you. If the lawyer was on you, I didn't want to be investigating you. And you can be sure that either of those, if they existed, would be on you. Also, if a busdriver wanted to mess up my action, you can be sure you would be one of the targets, whether you were scum or not. So in other words, an investigation of you would be at least 20% less reliable than an investigation on anyone else. I still want to lynch you, because I believe you are scum, but an investigation of you would not be able to prove that.

[danakillsu]

In short, the smart N1/D2 action by the scumteam would have been:

Kill Wicked or Xite

Roleblock Dana

Mislynch DP

DP would have been an easy target to mislynch Day 2. I'm confident he would have died before page 40. Xite and Wicked were the most obvtown players Day 1. Dana was the more believable claimed cop. Summary: Scumteam isn't too bright, dana is obvscum. If he was really pro-town, he wouldn't be alive right now.

So you are defying logic by saying that scum isn't too bright, but scum would have done the smart thing by roleblocking me if I was really a cop. Wow. Either scum is smart or isn't. Please choose one and stick with it. The truth is, scum is NOT predictable.

tbh only scum would refuse to look at the death writeup imo since they are already know who is dead.

No. Since scum did end up dying, how could scum already know who is dead? This is craplogic. I could easily miss that the scum who died was a roleblocker as either town or scum. If anything it proves I'm town since I didn't even KNOW scum had a roleblocker.

[danakillsu]

Yep, I'm a cop, no variations, no reason to believe I get bad results. Unless mafia somehow knows I'm naive because of a rolecop, I don't really see myself being anything but a regular cop. One other possibility I forgot to mention earlier is that town has a roleblocker or busdriver and was messing with what the scum roleblocker was doing. I just want to remind you of the fact that there are really two main possibilities from your POV.
1) I am scum. I knew there was a roleblocker on my team, somehow forgot that he died and also somehow forgot to say that he had been roleblocking me.
2) I am town. I have absolutely no idea how, but I have been allowed to continue investigating people. I have come up with some possibilities, but don't really know which one is true, if any of them are.

[Xite91]

You STILL don't know my name? >_<

Lulz, sorry. I'll try to remember

[evilpacman18]

I am scum.

He said it. It's in quotes. This is undeniable proof and my logic is not flawed at all.

[Antihero]

I don't think it's wrong to lynch dana at this point. Roleblocking a claimed cop for 2 nights would make sense if Benmage & nhammen are not aligned with dana. Xite's iffy stance on the matter is noteworthy, and could implicate him later if dana flips scum.

Fail quotient of this paragraph = 100%

D2, I mentioned that out of Mysterio and Wraith, Wraith was the likelier one to be scum, and also a viable bus for his scumbuddies. The combination of Benmage (known scum) and Xite (probable scum if dana is scum) on Wraith's wagon makes my little "equation" add up, so to speak. If I can run my mouth (err, fingers) for a bit, I think a reasonable lynch sequence would be dana > xite > wraith, if and ONLY IF the former player(s) in the sequence flip scum. It comes down to being one of those scenarios where there's no questions asked. Just do it.

Non sequitur
What makes Xite different from everyone else on the Wraith wagon?

Kise I think lynching Dana can be postponed one day,

I do like the fact you are looking for the godfather

.

lolwat?
What do you like about the fact that Kise is looking for someone who might not even exist?

I'm still waiting for DH to show up again and tell me why that earlier pacman vote is OK.

[evilpacman18]

DH has stayed on the dana wagon for pretty much all of today. I'm taking this as a town tell. My number of scumtells still outweighs the number of towntells but he's a bit more neutral now. Most scum would have hopped off the wagon as soon as it became the cool thing to do.

[evilpacman18]

all of today *once he got off that stupid OMGUS vote on me.*

[Robbnva]

@antihero - I have never been in a large game without a GF so thinking that it's possible isn't a stretch. Tbh I am sort of suprised to see there is not a SK and even more shocked to see somebody is 2 for 2 on mafia kills yet we can't seem to lynch any

[Xite91]

I am scum.

He said it. It's in quotes. This is undeniable proof and my logic is not flawed at all.

I lol'd
That being said, I hope that was the reason for this post.

@antihero - I have never been in a large game without a GF so thinking that it's possible isn't a stretch. Tbh I am sort of suprised to see there is not a SK and even more shocked to see somebody is 2 for 2 on mafia kills yet we can't seem to lynch any

It's because they keep beating us to it. I would have hit Nhamm... eventually