Mini 1046 - Murder in the Desert (Game Over!)

[Slaxx]

What I am trying to say is as scum you should have been appealing to me because I was the one who held your fate, but instead you just nonchalantly passed it up and continued to scumhunt and fine connections for tomorrow. If it was fake it was impressive, or maybe I am just that much of a fool.

[boberz]

I so guessed xine was an alt (I know nobody would believe me but I really did think he was scum

Lowell's fail regarding the scum powers (or alledged abundance thereof) actually makes him more town imo. Because it goes a bit further to betraying his lack of knowledge of how scum is organised.

Boberz: If you feel your case on Slaxx was fabricated, why bother with it, the question presented to you was "what do you think of Slaxx?" not, 'can you present a case againt Slaxx?' So, really, what do you think of Slaxx?

I said what I said because it is what I think. But it is the scummy bits of what I think. It felt fabricated because the standout bits were imo scummy but that does not mean he is the worst player nor does it mean I am going to go gungho in on him. I think he has the feel of trying to find scum and in that sense is townie but that is balanced by the few things I collated in my earlier post, making it null I suppose.

I guess no one reads my comments. Until people actually do, I will just stop posting.

I am carry on, but I am not sure what this refers to specifically.

Boberz made a case againt him too, something about being overquiet and wishy washy. Bob, you gonna jump on this wagon?

No my case was proved to be horse crap and this one is worse. The way he responded to my questioning earlier really felt like how I play against attacks by a newbie when I am VT in the road to rome.

Boberz - you said you were becoming "quite suspicious of bud" here, but did not vote him and then later say you had another post that never showed up with some other piece of information for the case on Bud and your vote. What was that piece of information. I would think you would want to provide all information about your highest suspect to help convince others to join the wagon. You said you would rebuild that part of the case, never did, then couldn't remember what it was.

I never remembered/found it. I am sure there was something. I did make this abundabtly clear later. It is highly possible I never pressed submit. Apologies for that but I did push the bub case and made the points I did have abundablty clear.

Also, Boberz - why did you not immediately vote me out of the gate D2? It seems I was the second likely scum in your opinion D1 and I don't see anything that would change your mind about me being scum with the overnight events.

I was bloody wrong. I dont think your scum. I should have said it earlier. Even after our argument I had some kind of 'gut' read. All that meant was that I was wrong but too stubborn to admitt it. I dont think your scum.

Xvart's night speculation was wifom and useless but not scummy imo. I still have two pages to read but I will FOS anyone who accuses this of being scummy in advance. (4 joke posts later DemonHybrid suggests NK speculation is scummy)

Because everyone that's had one has acted so freaking scummy.

Wepaons??? I still dont get that wagon btw.

---

Xvart appeared to give up??? anyone know his least favourite faction? he is that.

[boberz]

So in conclusion xvart lynch is crap. He has shown nothing scummy other than ignoring a scum. Well bugger me that is nothing in the context of the game.

I am dissapointed Xine is not the lynch of today but I realise that due to connectivity my views on thsi have been hidden:

*I feel there was a tunnelled attack on me to try and protect Bub. But I sense this point has been done to death.
*Tracker is not exactly a hard claim to make.
*An experienced alt didnt breadcrumb (I am not a meta expert) but it felt he was waving the newbie flag loud and proud when he claimed not to have breadcrumbed. (and on the flavour for that matter). Also surely an experienced player tracks me in his situation day 1. I essentially dont believe his claim truth be told.

---

Sidenote: I hate scum getting away with an extra day just because of a claim like that.

[Parama]

boberz:
I almost never breadcrumb and I'm somewhat experienced.
In contrast, Andrius has been breadcrumbing since he started playing mafia

[charter]

Here's the deal: I can't talk myself out of this. The fact that there are already people lining up to lynch me tomorrow probably means you're town and they are setting up me as tomorrow's lynch. There is no way to prove this thought ptocess to anyone. Everyone is going to see it as scum backing off of a wagon. That's fine. Its my fault I played that way. But I am not going to just hammer you under these circumstances now. If I'm right, that is two wasted lynches. So instead I am offering myself up today. Just give me a few days to reread the thread.

Who is lining up to lynch you tomorrow? It would be dumb lynching you over Xvart, stop with this nonsense.

Why is Xvart still alive?

[charter]

What I am trying to say is as scum you should have been appealing to me because I was the one who held your fate, but instead you just nonchalantly passed it up and continued to scumhunt and fine connections for tomorrow. If it was fake it was impressive, or maybe I am just that much of a fool.

It was not impressive scumhunting by any measure.

Just to add some more fuel to the Xvart fire, I've played in like two or three games with him, he was town every time, and he didn't play like this at all. I'll try and dig them up...

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I was going to come back with a mini-wall summary, but I am anger right now at what has happened in my absence.

xvart wagon, what the fuck?
DH and charter, what the fuck?
Slaxx, what the fuck?
Lowell, what the fuck?
Town, what the fuck?

Btw, CES was balls to the wall town.

Will elaborate after I eat.

[charter]

What is the point of that post, other than nothing?

[Slaxx]

WOMC/Lowell/Boberz/Xine

Care to take a stance on the Xvart that involves more than a yes or no?
Care to out some FoSs/Towntells?

[charter]

See, this is why it would be dumb to lynch you, Slaxx.

[Slaxx]

Why is that.

[Parama]

Hmm.

unvote

need to reread the past few pages :/ :/

[Parama]

Xvart's willingness to talk about the nightkill is looking bad. He's also posted significantly less than everyone else.

Vote: Xvart

Seriously, you're starting to talk more and all it does is detract from the scumhunting. Bad dog, no biscuit

This vote totally came after 3 other DH posts with no xvart post in between. 5 minutes since DH's most recent post. The timing of this just plain sucks.

Boo. As promised:

unvote, vote:xvart

PREVIEW EDIT: I think this is L-1?

Ohai there you have a reason to be doing this?

Hmm...
Part of me wants to lynch Xine the most regardless of claim.
Another part says that lynching xvart has good consequences and finding a scum for sure:
xvarttown = DH scum
xvartscum = Socrates scum

Want to say Slaxx is town though his play has been awkward for a while. Gut town read on boberz, Lowell and charter read as town no matter how you look at them (though both a bit misguided at times). WOMC is probably town though it's a weird thing making me think that.

And that really covers all bases.
I say we go ahead with the xvart lynch because the conditional flip makes a crapton of sense to me. Hopefully it's the latter, since Socrates is scummier than DH due to interactions with xvart... he might be scum in BOTH cases, in fact.
Anyways, let's just get this lynch done and then watch how the rest of the game unfolds.

vote: xvart

I really don't care about hitting scum for sure today, since we still have 2 MLs to burn if need be (most likely not). Neither of the remaining scum is as obvious as Bub, which is unfortunate. It was actually kinda cute how obvious Bub was. Plus, I've seen chainsaw defending fail as a scumteall before (I used it in another game which lead to 2 MLs when there was 1 scum remaining in 6p :/ Not my best moment.)

[xvart]

In addition, the unvote thing is ridiculous. Why? Because clearly I have a good enough case on you to lynch you. Only one more vote other than me to the hammer. If I was scum all I would have to do is convince one more person, and there are plenty left, that you were scum and bam, mislynch

But the question is your case clearly strong enough to lynch me and not get yourself lynched tomorrow, which is why I think you backed off. But I also love how you are playing up the fact that you are now not on my wagon so you are one of the deciding factors in whether or not I get lynched.

What I am trying to say is as scum you should have been appealing to me because I was the one who held your fate, but instead you just nonchalantly passed it up and continued to scumhunt and fine connections for tomorrow. If it was fake it was impressive, or maybe I am just that much of a fool.

You only "held my fate" after you unvoted me. And, is my scumhunting on you now legitimate compared to my only "convincing" scumhunting yesterday?

I so guessed xine was an alt (I know nobody would believe me but I really did think he was scum

Xine isn't an alt (unless a very elaborate one lol ). Xine and Ythill are married and I think she just forgot to log out/log in on a home computer. Or at least that is how I read her post.

Just to add some more fuel to the Xvart fire, I've played in like two or three games with him, he was town every time, and he didn't play like this at all. I'll try and dig them up...

Compare D1 play in those games you provide and I think they will fall in the realm of similarity. Like I said, I've been slacking in all my games because work has been a bitch the last couple of weeks, and I would be happy to explain why my play has been lackluster in all my games but I never put much stock into RL reasons (which is why I haven't yet). If you do compare D1 play in those games then the next logical step is to ask if scum xvart would be so demoralized by his scumbuddy being lynched that he would stop producing.

xvart.

[Slaxx]

I think my case was, and obviously so did a lot of others, all of which can't be scum. I'm not playing it up. That wasn't the point of that post at all.

Xvart, lets play a game. If we did lynch me today, and when I flipped town (cuz I am), who would be your new set of FoSs?

Why are you also heckling me so hard, the person with a fairly decent case on you, even if it is mostly coincidental, and not the other 4 or 5 on the wagon? No, its not deflection. I take full responsobility for the wagon, even without my vote on it. Ofc your recent posts don't make me feel so good about that mostly decent case.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Oh hey, I have a wall coming up, so don't hammer until then.

[Slaxx]

No one better hammer yet, including you.

[Parama]

Screw it, shower to think --->

unvote vote Socrates

Prob the way to go for today.

[Slaxx]

We had 17 days today...How many have gone by...8? I can't vote myself out of pure dignity and possible game rules, but I really don't mind being lynched because I know this is going to come back to haunt me.

[DemonHybrid]

Slaxx, if you know you're town, what the hell can come out of you wanting to lynch yourself?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

First of all, I want to add that I'm reconsidering Xine as town due to the crap that has appeared since..., I'll say #453, thoughts as I re-read style.

#454-456, more

Xine lynch is dying.

#457

Hmmm. I am going through a giant battle of the ages in my head right now.

On the one hand, there's Xine who is very scummy and needs to be lynched. On the other hand, as much as I hate to do it, Xine's tracking could actually be useful, and it might be worth letting him live today since the roleblocker is dead, and he'll either get another result, or best case, soak up a NK. On the third hand, if Xine isn't scum, that throws a big wrench in this game, and the only way to know that is for the mod to post his role, and the sooner we find out he's town, the sooner we can figure out who has been pulling the wool over our eyes.

I might be willing to lynch Weapons instead of Xine, it depends on his answers to these questions.

Xine, why did you track Slaxx?
What do you think of Slaxx not going anywhere last night, but there still being a kill?
Why didn't you track Boberz or Parama?

A bunch of pointless bullshit, I could summarize it as "I have second thoughts; would rather let Xine live."

And then there are the questions:

1. Good so far
2. What kind of crap question is this?
3. Why ask this question when you have question 1? Why boberz and Parama in particular?

Xine is clam in #459-460.

#462

Xine is fine.

Soc, by association, is null now. He could have easily left his vote on Xine when she was L-1 and gotten away with it.

WOMC is slowly crawling up my scumlist, while boberz still has a commanding lead. Lowell also might be worth looking into.

My vote on boberz stays. I'm watching WOMC.

And DH decides to shift opinion for no particular reason. Cool.

#465, would agree.

#466 is somewhat overblowing it in the first line.

#471-472

Looks like xvart and Slaxx are both town. Both attack and defense are legitimate, imo.

#475

A mafia tracker in a mini normal. Speculate more.

Mafia trackers are in many mini normals. I hope you're not clearing him because of that.

But whatever,

unvote, vote Weapons

Cool. Except that the vote does not follow the logical train of thought in #425.

#476-488 is a nice wagon; I am unsure why nobody was like, "hey, these votes are scummy."

DH around this point is just rehashing why we should let claimed tracker live. Theory debating/method runs through #500.

#501, I claim. What would you all do in my situation?

#505, Parama's town now counts twice.

Back to #490 for a second,

So I guess people think WOMC was bussing when he was the second vote on my Bub wagon?

Yeah, he didn't push Bub much.

shows charter not reading the thread.

Also, irony.

A lot of blah blah blah up to #518

#519 speaks honesty. Boberz for president. UNVOTE: XineVOTE: Boberz

UNVOTE: Boberz

And earlier, at the beginning of the day I voted boberz and unvoted quickly, and no one bothered to ask why, but I'll say anyway that killing CES would be a terrible move for boberz because of the connections DH has pointed out. And by the way, DH's timestamps seem town at the beginning of day 2 (lol).

#522 is more town boberz.

#524, Slaxx responds predictably, in a town way.

#526, I agree with some of the content here, and a post of this magnitude earn good points, but I disagree with the xvart read since it's weak, and Slaxx, with one scum declared, does not seem to be able to peg a second scum, even without giving sections on DH/boberz.

#527, I read after posting thoughts on #526.

#530

Alright, going to reread Weapons v Bub....

unvote

There wasn't a lot to it in the first place. Need to appease right here.

#531, actually I feel pretty meh at this post, particularly the part where xvart references that his point on Slaxx would be a very weak case to start a lynch on.

Cool.

I claim vanilla townie if it matters.

Why did you feel the need to claim now? This is interesting since it comes right after talk of directing the tracker.

You can figure this out yourself. Put yourself in my situation and imagine.

#532, hey I agree with Socrates, lines 3-5. Reconsider mode.

Doing my own little mini case on Xvart..

206, @Slaxx "If Bub is town in this possible scenario then why do you immediately vote him in the next post? Are you voting for someone you think is likely town?" That's incrediscummy seeing as how Bub was scum. He sets up an attack on Slaxx regardless of Bub's alignment. Wondering how I missed that, and now I see his post is like 3000 words so I never read it.

Pretty short case, I think that's the only time he says Bub's name. That's unfortunate for him seeing as Bub was scum.

I also don't see a single mention of him by Bub. I think that's pretty good work Slaxx.

vote Xvart

*hop* (also ctrl+f bub in xvart iso; you'll find something extra)

#541, when was the last time DH added anything of value?

#542, Xine votes charter...interesting.

Don't care much for #543-550.

xvart wagon builds.

#563

Slaxx, I was checking out Xvart, and I don't see much scum there. But I did notice one of the (2?) places he mentions Bub, is in post #206, where he calls you out for calling Bub town in post #97, then vote him in post #98, I think your response to him was this:

-. Also reread my ISO. That is NOT the way it happened.

So I read your ISO, and, actually it seems like that is exactly what happened. can you explain this?
ps. good catch on him hardly mentioning Bub

I just noticed bub was a roleblocker. tracker claim looks worse.

I really would like to know why, and your post #558 does nothing to explain it to me, please try again

Boberz: If you feel your case on Slaxx was fabricated, why bother with it, the question presented to you was "what do you think of Slaxx?" not, 'can you present a case againt Slaxx?' So, really, what do you think of Slaxx?

Actually, posts like these from Xine are pretty town. There is original thought and taking a stand.

#566

I think we can get Weapons to vote for Xvart, and Socrates if he wants a prayer of not being lynched tomorrow. There will be enough town cred left for one more person, who is going to get it?

wtfterrible

terrible

#572

---

Boberz - you said you were becoming "quite suspicious of bud" here, but did not vote him and then later say you had another post that never showed up with some other piece of information for the case on Bud and your vote. What was that piece of information. I would think you would want to provide all information about your highest suspect to help convince others to join the wagon. You said you would rebuild that part of the case, never did, then couldn't remember what it was.

Also, Boberz - why did you not immediately vote me out of the gate D2? It seems I was the second likely scum in your opinion D1 and I don't see anything that would change your mind about me being scum with the overnight events.

Going back to the NK, I still can't wrap my head around why CES was killed. He wasn't really on to anyone but was still considered scummy by many. He would have made a perfect mislynch. It doesn't make any sense, and since he didn't ever build a case I'm wondering if the most obvious town people were to close to nailing the other scum and didn't want to draw even more speculation attention to the cases being built.

Vote: Boberz

xvart.

I missed this before dinner, so I retract my wtf. I get the reason for suspicion after this point, though I am not quite with it. xvart, why did you post the night kill speculation?

Nah. Awkward is when I came into class in like 3rd grade with my pants on backwards. Mod might be able to confirm that.

Slaxx is town.

Q.E.D.

#581

Boo. As promised:

unvote, vote:xvart

PREVIEW EDIT: I think this is L-1?

nty

I'm not currently motivated to look thoroughly through xvart's defense, but it's existence tends toward town; there are a good number over a relatively small time frame.

#611

vote xvart

back to lynch-1.

Retract wtf, having my doubts, etc.

Xvart, surely you can WIFOM better than that.

I thought it was pretty good WIFOM. His post made me about 99% sure he's scum, though.

Scum flailing. hammer. I don't want to hear a claim from him.

Part of why I see xvart as town.

#624 also is a good point which factors into my decision to still think xvart's town. Also, I get the feeling my opinion is unwillingly bent by wagons.

#625-end whatever

VOTE: charter

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

In retrospect, just ignore #631.

[Slaxx]

Well, if xvart is town which I keep feeling more and more, then his lynch would be the death of me, if not tomorrow, surely the next day. We have 10 players right now and probably 2 scum. We lynch xvart today, lets say he flips town. They kill someone who is not me tomorrow.

6/2

I get lynched because of how bad I played townie this game.

4/2.

Welcome to freakin mylo on what was a pretty decent start for town.

[Slaxx]

How does that post make me town?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

How does that post make me town?

If you're talking to me, then the post I think you're thinking about is a joke.