Scott Brosius wrote:Relationships with flipped scum.
KageLord wrote:
Bunny is playing weak and a bit scummy (mostly because of the weakness, as pointed out earlier), but not enough to make me shift my vote.
Standard scum distancing, mentioning him as scummy, not enough for vote.
It wasn't enough for a vote at that point since Raivann was super scummy/anti-town. Clearly the vigs agreed since he was their first target instead of Bunny.
Scott wrote:KageLord wrote:Why the L-1 vote, FakeGod?
I was just waiting to see how that whole thing with don turned out first. There didn't seem much point in me voting someone else in the middle of that back-and-forth. Now though, I'm not quite sure that the leading wagons are appropriate. Sure Bunny and mongoose have been mostly inactive (and mongoose's voting someone on his 3rd post and sticking with it throughout the day without reinforcing it or trying to convince others doesn't help), but isn't it just as likely that they're just not playing good town? I'm just a bit wary of voting someone for reasons like that given that we probably have an SK (or a lying vig), meaning 2 possible town deaths a night. Lylo might be coming very soon (maybe as early as tomorrow), so I just want to have a very good reason when I vote right now. If Bunny and mongoose aren't scum, this is just looking ideal for scum (easy mislynches coming and possible help at night from SK or vig).
So cloud, why is your vote on Bunny again?
More soft defense of Bunny
Also more soft defense of mongoose. If I'm on Bunny's team for soft defending him here, I'm also on mongoose's team for soft defending him. See the problem with that?
Scott wrote:KageLord wrote:
My scum team guess (descending order of scumminess):
mongoose
Skill006
Bunnylover
First time we have acknowledgment of Skill, but still both are not his top scum suspect.
Wow... that would be the poorest semi-bus I have ever seen. In a list of 3 suspects putting 2 of one's scum buddies. Plus, for that to work, I would have to have voted mongoose, which I didn't. As scum I would have no reason to hold back on going after mongoose after putting my two scumbuddies on my list like that. Mongoose already had a good amount of suspicion on him then, so that seems like a logical wagon to restart at that point. The fact that I didn't even attempt to restart that wagon despite putting mongoose as my top suspect shows genuine restraint considering lylo/mylo. Also, no reason for scum to plop Skill onto that list when it's nowhere near necessary.
Scott wrote:KageLord wrote:
My new scumteam guess:
Skill006
el simo
Scott
This is probably a scummy looking scumteam (meaning I look scummy for suggesting Scott and el simo), but I think it is the most likely right now. I would put Bunny in there for one of them except for his honesty in his list. I don't think simple scum would do something like putting themselves second last in their own list. Really that's all I'm basing my current read on him on, so feel free to disagree.
Goes back to defending Bunny for a pretty weak reason (his honesty). Skill still on the list however there is little wiggle room at this point.
Refuses to hammer Bunny, but does hammer Skill.
So we have a lot of defending Bunny, and ignoring Skill until mass-claim and it is necessary to address all players. Both of these relationships seem scummy and problematic to me.
I admit, that Bunny situation does look bad. To me, it looks so bad that it would be idiotic for scum. At some points you paint me as some scheming scum, ready to semi-bus both my partners in a list of 3 (and one time moving one of them up to my top suspect), then we get here where scum would have to be an idiot in my position. When it is that clear that Bunny is going to be lynched, there is no scum that I know of that would try to defend him like that. And obviously my hammer on Skill was about 98% guaranteed to hit scum given the logic I mentioned beforehand. el simo then said he had the same train of thought and was just waiting to see what I would do for a bit.
Scott wrote:Tracker claim
I have addressed problems with his claim earlier. There are 2 big ones that stand out for me however.
1. All of his results are easily made up. N1 Raivann was VT and obviously tracked nowhere. N2 he "forgot" his role N3 he "tracked" me to DJ and mongoose (covered in point 2). N4 "tracked" me to el simo.
KageLord wrote:Okay, before anything else, I think we should do the reveal of who everyone targeted. el simo and Skill, that would be you two. mongoose is essentially cleared, I think.
After those two claim their N3 actions, I would be most interested to know Scott's thoughts at this point.
This is his first point after the end of N3 asking for targets to be revealed. Mongoose reveals that he was role blocked. Only after getting this information, Kage claims that he "tracked" me to the NK of DJ and mongoose. So all of his claimed information can easily be made up from the thread. Raivann flips VT, is an easy fake tracker. He doesn't even make one up N2. Once he gets the information on who targeted who, puts the blame on me. And obviously "tracks" me to simo N4 also easily surmised from the thread.
N1, I don't see how you can blame me for that result. Vigs thought he was scum too, apparently. What else would you expect from a tracker on N1? Do you doubt el simo because he didn't save anyone for the entire game (and from the info he revealed, he wasn't blocked but just picked the wrong person)? N2, I accept the full blame for that. I would think it would be easier for scum to just claim another VT there, but whatever, I can see how timing out on my action would look suspicious.
N3 is what I think is one of the biggest reasons to think I'm telling the truth.
Think about it this way: if you are scum trying to fakeclaim D4 after claiming VT the previous day, what do you do? Well, first of all, claiming anything at that point would be risky. But, disregarding that, if you decide to go with tracker as your fakeclaim, how do you pick your targets? Picking from the dead each night is one way to go. However, the one thing I would never understand scum doing is announcing multiple targets. Scum could easily continue the pattern by saying "Scott targeted don". Since don ended up dead, that would be all fine and dandy for framing. Or, scum could go another route and say, "Scott targeted mongoose (or el simo or whoever was alive)". At that point, Scott is painted as lying to town and targeting someone, giving the strong possibility of being the RB (possibly saving Skill from being lynched) or some other scum PR. Why in the world would scum say the unlikely phenomenon of targeting two players? This is easily doubted by town since there are not many roles that target multiple people. The logical conclusion: only a town tracker would actually say that their target targeted multiple people.
Also, your N4 theory is easily debunked. If the point was for me to wait until mongoose said he was blocked, I would have then claimed that Scott targeted mongoose only and suggested that it could be the reason he was blocked. That would be a believable sequence if you believe the tracker claim. But, since I didn't even suggest the possibility of Scott being RB and instead claimed two targets for him (and suggested possibility of redirector, not RB), that theory goes out the window. The reason I wanted everyone to claim first was to make my decision about whether it was Scott/Skill or Scott/simo based on the targets that Skill and simo claimed. mongoose saying he was blocked after Skill had claimed JK was just about the icing on the cake as far as that was concerned. Notice I asked for Scott's thoughts in particular. I was trying to get him to say who his suspects were at that point and to see if he said anything contradictory to what I knew or believed to be true. After all, at that point, there was the tiniest sliver of possibility that Scott was actually a town PR that wanted to do his work in private.
Scott wrote:2. He has 2 "results" for me N3, yet only 1 for me N4.
I think Kage pegged me as Mafia RB and figured 2 results would really sell me as scum. Given that 2 results were easily fakeable with the death of DJ and after mongoose announced he was RBed, this was a believable track. But Skill flips Mafia RB and this assumption falls apart. So he "tracks" me to 2 people N3, but only 1 person N4?
Vote: KageLord
If I pegged you as RB (and was trying to sell that view), why would I suggest redirector as your role? As I mentioned above, if my goal was to frame you as RB, I would have suggested that your two targets could have been a kill and a block (which honestly hadn't crossed my mind since I thought your partner was the RB, which turned out to be true). Also, the single result on N4 is easily explained. You don't have to use your power every night. If you wanted to, as the sole remaining scum, you could just decide to kill el simo and skip your other power.
Also, in my experience, scum are usually the ones that vote first in final 3. Just saying.
Vote: Scott Brosius
mongoose, I suggest you wait until the mod answers your question before voting. It could be of the utmost importance.
