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Post Post #525 (ISO) » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:33 am

Post by dramonic »

MagnaofIllusion wrote:Ok, if BC isn’t a lover why in the HELL are you defending him? You’ve stated you don’t have Mod confirmation of his alignment. I don’t see much reason other than behind the scenes role-mechanics why you would defend him so much. I’m sticking by my original assertion that we have scum in the BC / AGar / Hacker triumvirate. Hacker has been cleared by flip so I’m not inclined to continue to disregard BC based on your gut.
If you don't see much reason other than behind the scenes role-mechanics for why I'd defend him, it may be that I have behind the scenes role-mechanics reason to want him alive?
@Dram
– Please tell me why I shouldn’t be the little bit worried that despite your chest thumping your vote never went on Jason?
Because I was voting my other scumreads.
If you are Town your first reaction should be ‘Why in the hell is he clearing me’ because based on what you and dram has said I don’t see clear reason for him to do so. Sticking up for Town is a classic scum-move.
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Post Post #526 (ISO) » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:02 pm

Post by chesskid3 »

BloodCovenent wrote:
chesskid3 wrote:Honestly I have better things to do with my time than make a case on a obv scum.
orly?
yarly
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Post Post #527 (ISO) » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:29 pm

Post by AGar »

dramonic wrote:
AGar wrote:Dram, getting a lucky flip on Jason and claiming you were right does not constitute a good reason to play based on "gut" and throw all signs of scumhunting to the wind. Still waiting on a reason as to why we shouldn't lynch BC, or yourself for being fucking useless.
It's not a lucky flip though. Unless you wanna call the HH lynch a group-effort "unlucky" flip?
Gut play is not contradictory to scumhunting. There are multiple ways to hunt scum, and gut and motivation psychology is the one I prefer. Claiming your method is better than mine is ridiculous when your method has yet to provide result.

Also, stop rolefishing.
I never claimed my way is better than yours. I'm claiming that you're not doing anything and you don't have a way. Big difference.

And how is it rolefishing when you
soft claimed
. If you don't want people asking questions, DON'T SOFTCLAIM. It's a really simple concept. The fact that you won't budge on BC's being a bad lynch makes me (and others, apparently) really suspicious of your motives. If you're not lovers, then why the hell is he a bad lynch? Elaborate.

Chess, you still have no reasoning backing up your empty claims. Keep prancing, scum. You're jig will be up soon.
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Post Post #528 (ISO) » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:35 pm

Post by dramonic »

AGar wrote:I never claimed my way is better than yours. I'm claiming that you're not doing anything and you don't have a way. Big difference.
You're blind to my way if you think I don't have one.
And how is it rolefishing when you
soft claimed
.
If I softclaimed, odds are I don't feel like hard-claiming. Now stop rolefishing, you're almost making me doubt my gut.
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Post Post #529 (ISO) » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:41 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Dekes wrote:I thought I should address this before this bogus reason will ever be used against me.
This combined with the next quoted part is quite a disproportionate reaction. The point I was making is this – you got a pretty free ride Day 1 due to vezok’s lyncher play and your claim as Claire. Now that Jack, arguably THE main character of the show, has flipped scum you get no flavor based protect as Claire.

The reaction is noted though.
Dekes wrote:MoI, I'll definitely follow your VC analysis as it progresses throughout the game though town should not forget that if we go with this D1 VC analysis that you are a possible scum candidate, too. Basing on your playstyle there is absolutely nothing that would warrant me thinking you're scum, but I've been fooled by good scum before.
Despite all your analysis and your stating of your top suspects you still haven't laid down a vote. You aren't trying to manipulate your VC analysis by holding your vote back now, are you?
Subtle undermining (I’ve been fooled by good scum, why aren’t you voting)? Check.

We are not even four full days out from Daybreak and you are pressuring me to vote? I haven’t had a chance to ISO Agar in full yet to decide whether I think he’s the best place for my vote.

Here's the breakdown Dekes - I'm not going to label myself as clear on a VC analysis because to your perspective I'm not. But I certainly not going to pretend I don't know my alignment and include myself in potential scumreads. Cause, you know, I've got my role PM and all. You take an run with the raw data wherever you want to go. I've given everyone my thoughts.

@Chesskid - 521 and 523 aren’t Pro-Town in the slightest. Yes you do have to present cases unless you want people to ignore your statements.
BC wrote:No... that wouldn't be my first reaction. for christ's sake. everyone... stop asking why dram was willing to stick his neck out for me.
No, I’m not going to until I get a solid reason to ignore your play. My current belief is I should be gunning for the scum in my Gang of Three from Monday. Hacker wasn’t the scum there so it is either you or AGar. There have been way too many unsubstantiated defense claims of pairs for my liking.
Dram wrote:BC knows why I want him alive.
Yeah that’s great. I haven’t got a clean enough answer to buy into your reasons based solely on your ‘gut’.

TBD
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Post Post #530 (ISO) » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:45 pm

Post by AGar »

dramonic wrote:
AGar wrote:I never claimed my way is better than yours. I'm claiming that you're not doing anything and you don't have a way. Big difference.
You're blind to my way if you think I don't have one.
And how is it rolefishing when you
soft claimed
.
If I softclaimed, odds are I don't feel like hard-claiming. Now stop rolefishing, you're almost making me doubt my gut.
Part 1: I've seen nothing convincing from you.

Part 2: Don't softclaim. I'm saying I want answers. Transparency is pro-town. So give up the goods, or I'll keep at this.
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Post Post #531 (ISO) » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:49 pm

Post by BloodCovenent »

AGar wrote: Part 2: Don't softclaim. I'm saying I want answers. Transparency is pro-town. So give up the goods, or I'll keep at this.
Really? I always thought that shit helped scum?
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Post Post #532 (ISO) » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:52 pm

Post by dramonic »

AGar wrote:Part 2: Don't softclaim. I'm saying I want answers. Transparency is pro-town. So give up the goods, or I'll keep at this.
You're not getting a claim, so either drop it or stop expecting answers.
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Post Post #533 (ISO) » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:12 pm

Post by Ademisk »

@MoI: I agree with whoevre said it that Vezok is VI or scum enough to have hammered HH regardless of the fakevote, so in that way I don't see it as inherently scummy. Him going for a cop was. I'll just leave it at that.

There seems to be a bit of confusion about me being sure that jenni softclaimed BP. I am not. I simply took the claim from chess and turned it around as a question. If chess thinks the softclaim was BP and you (MoI) do not, what else could it be (rhetorical)? Still would like an explanation of what the role is though, since wiki has nothing.

@Dekes: Well the thing, your vote on me today is "for the same reasons as yesterday". Your reasons yesterday was me being suspicious of the unlynchables. Therefore your point about having more info to base your vote on is moot.

@chess:
chesskid3 wrote:Chess, if AGar flipped scum, I'd be looking at you first. Just sayin'.

OH NOZE I SCARED
wth, you're playing like crap today. On D1 you were near the top of my towny list along with MoI. Now you are just not even trying. With posts like these you are not doing yourself any favors, and make me think more my vote is accurate.
chesskid3 wrote:Honestly I have better things to do with my time than make a case on a obv scum.
If you have a case on him, make it like you promised. Otherwise, get over your grudge and get back to playing for real.
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Post Post #534 (ISO) » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:30 pm

Post by AGar »

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dramonic

There's no real reasoning to protect BC. This is some really blatant bullshit here.
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Post Post #535 (ISO) » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:38 pm

Post by BloodCovenent »

AGar wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dramonic

There's no real reasoning to protect BC. This is some really blatant bullshit here.
Think for a second... why the fuck would scum dramonic protect scum blood? There is NO logical reason as to it. Lynching him is such a horrible idea.
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Post Post #536 (ISO) » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:19 pm

Post by chesskid3 »

Ademisk wrote: @chess:
chesskid3 wrote:Chess, if AGar flipped scum, I'd be looking at you first. Just sayin'.

OH NOZE I SCARED
wth, you're playing like crap today. On D1 you were near the top of my towny list along with MoI. Now you are just not even trying. With posts like these you are not doing yourself any favors, and make me think more my vote is accurate.
chesskid3 wrote:Honestly I have better things to do with my time than make a case on a obv scum.
If you have a case on him, make it like you promised. Otherwise, get over your grudge and get back to playing for real.

wow shocking that Adem joins the chesskid suspicion club. SHOCKING. I'm ok with putting AGar's execution off a day for Adem.
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Post Post #537 (ISO) » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:59 pm

Post by Ademisk »

I believe I joined your club when I voted you a couple of pages back.
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Post Post #538 (ISO) » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:34 am

Post by AGar »

BloodCovenent wrote:
AGar wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dramonic

There's no real reasoning to protect BC. This is some really blatant bullshit here.
Think for a second... why the fuck would scum dramonic protect scum blood? There is NO logical reason as to it. Lynching him is such a horrible idea.
Why wouldn't he? And who brought scum BC into the equation? I never said you had to be scum with Dram. I simply said Dram's unexplicable protecting of you is scummy. You've never seen scum buddy up to a townie so when they go down there's a potential mislynch ripe for their partner?

You are correct in that it's a bit odd that scum Dram would protect scum BC, but you're using typical scum logic to justify an action as town. That's textbook WIFOM. It's called breaking meta. I'm pretty sure Dram isn't a total idiot. I actually think he's a pretty intelligent mafia player. Which is why I think he's capable of this.

Just because something isn't the most logical path, doesn't mean it's impossible.

Let me explain.

Dram said you were a bad lynch.
Then Dram said he wasn't positive you weren't scum.
He is still saying you are a bad lynch.
Now you are saying he is a bad lynch, while you had simply let him be for the most part.

Note Dram has a grand total of
1
vote on him now. You at least got run up to about L-2 before Dram said it was a bad idea, but he has said he has "inside info," and not expounded on this since. You two are both alive. A bit of WIFOM, yes, but if a player says another is a bad lynch, it's usually a good incentive for mafia to kill that player, especially over another player with no roleclaims like Farasera, no?

Pardon me if I can't exactly make sense of the soft-claim here, the motivations or the logistics.

What I've gathered is thus:

You two aren't lovers.
You can't be masons.
Dram has no positive investigation on you.

If I'm missing something, I accept that, but I see NO reason why Dram had any justification for saying you were a bad lynch other than his personal read on you. But he has said more, without expounding.

Sorry if I don't just blindly buy into the two of yours' scheming.
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Post Post #539 (ISO) » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:15 am

Post by dramonic »

AGar wrote:What I've gathered is thus:

You two aren't lovers.
You can't be masons.
Dram has no positive investigation on you.

If I'm missing something, I accept that, but I see NO reason why Dram had any justification for saying you were a bad lynch other than his personal read on you. But he has said more, without expounding.

Let's add a new thing to be gathered.
If you think either of us is town, lynching either of us is bad.
No, we won't commit suicide over one another.
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Post Post #540 (ISO) » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:26 am

Post by AGar »

dramonic wrote:
AGar wrote:What I've gathered is thus:

You two aren't lovers.
You can't be masons.
Dram has no positive investigation on you.

If I'm missing something, I accept that, but I see NO reason why Dram had any justification for saying you were a bad lynch other than his personal read on you. But he has said more, without expounding.

Let's add a new thing to be gathered.
If you think either of us is town, lynching either of us is bad.
No, we won't commit suicide over one another.
You haven't convinced me. I see no rationale by which if I find BC town, I shouldn't find you scummy.
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Post Post #541 (ISO) » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:42 am

Post by Dekes »

MagnaofIllusion wrote:This combined with the next quoted part is quite a disproportionate reaction. The point I was making is this – you got a pretty free ride Day 1 due to vezok’s lyncher play and your claim as Claire. Now that Jack, arguably THE main character of the show, has flipped scum you get no flavor based protect as Claire.
I beg to differ here. The game could've been over for me not five pages into D1 because people were following a questionable claim by a known VI. Not what I would call a free ride exactly. I had to claim my name in order to prove vezo's claim wrong. But I never considered myself to be unlynchable on D1 because I had claimed the name Claire. On the contrary, people were debating whether the lynchee could still be scum. But I weren't getting a lot of suspicion later on D1 although other "Unlynchables" like vezo or BC still were. I wonder why that is?
Ademisk wrote:@Dekes: Well the thing, your vote on me today is "for the same reasons as yesterday". Your reasons yesterday was me being suspicious of the unlynchables. Therefore your point about having more info to base your vote on is moot.
That was one of the reasons. The others were your distancing from the lynch candidates and your dubious claim (not the name, but the circumstances surrounding it).

If you want a D2 update why I think you're scum, here we go.

It starts off with your catch-up post, which - for my taste - contained just a tad too many filler questions to make you look like a good, curious townie.
That post ends with a case against chesskid and a vote on him.
So, two pages into D2 in your first post you vote the person that you claim to be one of your top town reads D1. What happened to your supsects on D1: BC, dram, vezo and even AGar whom you made a case against late on D1?
Incidentally - and here it gets interesting -, besides AGar and yourself (and vezo's obligatory vote on me), chesskid was the only one with a vote on at that time. And he had the weaker position in that debate with AGar (BC, for example, sided with AGar).
Sure as hell could be looked at as you sacrificing your top town read (or even your scumbuddy, who knows?) to start an early counterwagon with all the suspicion you're still facing.
Ademisk wrote:wth, you're playing like crap today. On D1 you were near the top of my towny list along with MoI. Now you are just not even trying. With posts like these you are not doing yourself any favors, and make me think more my vote is accurate.
This is irritating me. Feels like you weren't even that suspicious when you voted him back then (which would support the counterwagon theory) and now you're trying to strenghten your original vote.

Couple that with your continued vagueness about your knowledge of jenni's role:
Ademisk wrote:If chess thinks the softclaim was BP and you (MoI) do not, what else could it be (rhetorical)?
Lol, if you know her role why do you want other people to guess? The fact that you added rhetorical makes it even worse.


Dram's and BC's behaviour surrounding their softclaim is unsatisfactory indeed. But it's fine for know, the longer they are alive the more questionable their claim becomes (inb4 WIFOM). I have a greater problem with the fact that they've been only addressing this matter lately and haven't been engaging into scumhunting for a while now (especially BC). I'd advise you to get on it and people will automatically drop the poking for your fullclaim.
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Post Post #542 (ISO) » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:28 pm

Post by Ademisk »

Well Dekes, regardless of what you add to your case now, the point stands that when you voted me you had nothing other than D1 stuff, which aside from Vezok was nothing.

The questions I asked I stand by. Maybe the one I asked jenni could be considered superfluous, and even then I was trying to clarify how that role worked (lyncher gets fakeclaim, yes/no?). More importantly, my question about what the BP role is remains unanswered. You know it, Dekes, and you are using it to make a case on me, so why not explain? Coupled with your bad case on me earlier, and and you skewing the data against me (I ask superfluous questions, you don't help answer so they seem more superfluous), I wonder what you're up to. And why wouldn't I want to know what people derived from the softclaim? I could use their answer and see how well it matches to her softclaim, which could provide a lot of valuable information.

Chess is playing objectively bad today. Sure he was pretty high on my town list but I consider today's events over yesterdays. I still view dram/BC to be scummier from yesterday, but chesskid has been climbing steadily up my chart, and if this pattern continues he will have well earned that vote by the end of the day. And just because I have my vote on him now does not mean I want him lynched today, period. For that matter, I am the only other vote on him. If he was higher up, I would have thought twice.
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Post Post #543 (ISO) » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:17 am

Post by chesskid3 »

yawn, scumslip.

"Chess is playing objectively bad[not that he's scum but he's playing bad so I'm going to take advantage of this to get him lynched] today"

The wording of that quote makes it very obvious that Adem is scum. More votes please.
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Post Post #544 (ISO) » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:12 am

Post by Dekes »

Ademisk wrote:Well Dekes, regardless of what you add to your case now, the point stands that when you voted me you had nothing other than D1 stuff, which aside from Vezok was nothing.
You hadn't posted on D2 so I couldn't have included anything from D2 now, could I? The only thing I added was the info that Jack had flipped scum and so your nameclaim became void.
And I don't see the wrongness in continuing a case if new evidence comes up?
Ademisk wrote:The questions I asked I stand by. Maybe the one I asked jenni could be considered superfluous, and even then I was trying to clarify how that role worked (lyncher gets fakeclaim, yes/no?). More importantly, my question about what the BP role is remains unanswered. You know it, Dekes, and you are using it to make a case on me, so why not explain? Coupled with your bad case on me earlier, and and you skewing the data against me (I ask superfluous questions, you don't help answer so they seem more superfluous), I wonder what you're up to. And why wouldn't I want to know what people derived from the softclaim? I could use their answer and see how well it matches to her softclaim, which could provide a lot of valuable information.
I saw more useless questions than that. Especially the ones directed at dram. "Why are you surprised I'm still alive?" Do you really expect an answer by dram that you couldn't have figured out yourself?
By no means did I include your ignorance of the role BP. And you can't really have tried hard to acquire the information. I searched the Wiki for "Beloved Princess" and this was the first and only page that popped up.
I'm rather interested in why you keep poking others for information about jenni's role if you claim to know that role? Because it could provide valuable information? Yeah, sure, if you actually don't know jenni's role I suppose it could.
Ademisk wrote:Chess is playing objectively bad today. Sure he was pretty high on my town list but I consider today's events over yesterdays. I still view dram/BC to be scummier from yesterday, but chesskid has been climbing steadily up my chart, and if this pattern continues he will have well earned that vote by the end of the day. And just because I have my vote on him now does not mean I want him lynched today, period. For that matter, I am the only other vote on him. If he was higher up, I would have thought twice.
This is bad, really. Again, you imply you don't believe chesskid deserved your vote in the first place but you assume he will have "earned it by the end of the day". Then why did you vote him if he apparently didn't deserve it back then?
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Post Post #545 (ISO) » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:27 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

chesskid13 (1): Ademisk
Ademisk (3): Dekes, dramonic, chesskid13
dramonic (1): AGar

Not voting (4): BloodCovenent, jenniwren, vezokpiraka, MagnaofIllusion


Vezokpiraka has been prodded.
Last edited by xRECKONERx on Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #546 (ISO) » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:29 am

Post by vezokpiraka »

Lynch someone and get it over with it.

unvote
vote ademisk
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chesskid3
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Post Post #547 (ISO) » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:00 am

Post by chesskid3 »

@Reck. You have TL and AGar down, remove TL from the not-voting list?
Fixed.
Last edited by xRECKONERx on Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #548 (ISO) » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:01 am

Post by chesskid3 »

Unvote

You're really at L-1 though, since I have every intention of voting.
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Post Post #549 (ISO) » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:04 am

Post by chesskid3 »

i.e. Claimtime.
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