Open 253: Sea Container C9++ [GAME OVER]

[mothrax]

VOTE: alduskill for being the first player alphabetically not to post or have a vote.

[mothrax]

Oops you caught me!

[mothrax]

SA, I don't see any validity in your argument... actually, it looks really WIFOMish. I'm not sure I like how quickly the last two players jumped on you though so I won't vote yet.

To all:
Massclaim, Yes or No and why?

[mothrax]

I'm interested in hearing this as well. Massclaim has it's advantages in that we can narrow down the setup as this is really semi-open. If we do that we can find out what roles we may be up against. We can also use it to weed out fakeclaims as there are only so many that would work in this game. I do see the disadvantages as well such as outing prs. That's why I wanted others opinions. As for my SA comment, consider it an fos minus the actuall words fos. It's no different.

[mothrax]

Ok then. I wasn't saying we had to do it, I wanted other peoples thoughts on the matter.I like the fos on Andrew though, gives you a new out when your vote on me goes no where. You are voting people for asking valid questions. (neither of us have played this setup before,) I am just trying to cover all angles.

[mothrax]

Thank you maf for being the only person to respond rationally to a genuine question. When I said valid I meant I wanted to know the pros and cons, which now I do know. As for wishy-washy, I explained that while I did see SAs pushing this lynch slightly scummy I also saw the way votes piled up as scummy which is why I didn't vote him. Kat, you of all people know that quicklynches are horrible...
You are voting me for less scum and more ignorance.

[mothrax]

(trying so hard not to fly into capslock rage right now)

This was my thought behind massclaim: When we know what roles are in the game we can work backwards to narrow down the possible letter combinations to less than 10 and have an idea of which are most likely. From there we could extrapolate which claims don't really fit or are statistically improbable, giving us a good chance at finding scum. Since the cons have been pointed out, I no longer support this. but hey, here is a thought... I ASKED BECAUSE I WANTED TO HEAR OTHERS THOUGHTS ON IT!!! not because I am scum and fishing, not because I am too lazy... A decent amount of setup speculation is healthy and in a setup I haven't played, I look at all angles.
So to Kat and mongoose, your reasons for voting me are because I did something you percieve as stupid, not because I did something scummy.
To Maf... put your vote where your mouth is. If you want me gone, you better try real damn hard.

[mothrax]

and since I am going to get called out for OMGUS, this is in another post:
My top scumreads ATM are Mafuyu and Katsuki.
They both hopped on Sleepless when he was pushing a case on jmj, and while it was admitadly not a strong one, it was more than others were doing. As soon as they say that wasn't going anywhere, Kat jumped on me for a stupid reason, and was closely followed by Maf, who was wishy-washy enough to accuse me, call me scum, say we needed a wagon on me, but not vote me.

Unvote; Vote Katsuki

[mothrax]

relevant because [redacted] and the way kat and maf keep piling votes with a few others, a quicklynch is what is going to end up happening.

[mothrax]

Limited access untill I can type with my left hand again... apparently running knives through fingers is bad form.

I will be around and be reading, but my posting will be sporadic and mostly done on my phone since it only requires using one hand to type.

[mothrax]

I'm not calling their votes stupid, I'm saying they are voting me fore stupidity, not scumminess. I did think it through, but I miss things sometimes which is why I wanted other oppinions on the matter.

[mothrax]

This was my thought behind massclaim: When we know what roles are in the game we can work backwards to narrow down the possible letter combinations to less than 10 and have an idea of which are most likely. From there we could extrapolate which claims don't really fit or are statistically improbable, giving us a good chance at finding scum. Since the cons have been pointed out, I no longer support this. but hey, here is a thought... I ASKED BECAUSE I WANTED TO HEAR OTHERS THOUGHTS ON IT!!! not because I am scum and fishing, not because I am too lazy... A decent amount of setup speculation is healthy and in a setup I haven't played, I look at all angles.

I didn't even think about VT claims (yeah, stupid, I know)

[mothrax]

And I saw the pro-town sides, I saw a few anti town, but I wanted the cons weighed out, so I asked. So if a scum player has difficulty seeing the pro-town aspects of things, your argument is void since I saw those and it was the anti I was having trouble seeing.

[mothrax]

I have a Townread on SA at this point...
Mainly in which he claimed roleblocker... and in which he pushed the jmj thing really hard. Yeah it was stupid reasons, but stupidity=/=scumminess. Why would he have drawn so much attention to himself if he was scum?
I am happy with a kat lynch since he has jumped on multiple "easy" lynches, including mine, and SA as well. Plus his playstyle annoys the crap out of me.
If that is not an option, I think I am down with a mongoose lynch. his reaction to the massclaim argument was scummy, on top of the fact that he is pushing a lurker lynch;

[mothrax]

If I am wrong I am wrong, but I have no scum read on SA, I just don't see it.
People don't always do things how they "should" Kat, you learned to play from zwet... you should know this.

vote order doesn't matter. Especially when you see an opportunity to push something the town would support. SA has had mucho suspicion pointed his direction, so he is an obv deadline mislynch target for scum. Cut the WIFOM. Seriously. :Scum wouldn't do this so I can't be scum" is not a valid defense.

[mothrax]

Oh, results. I didn't block anyone Night 0 because we had nothing to go by and I'd have a higher chance of blocking a power role than blocking scum.

Andrew, it was right there in it's own post. It was even on the bottom of a page of his iso

[mothrax]

I need to reread... no longer suspicious of kat/looker at this point...

[mothrax]

I need to reread... no longer suspicious of kat/looker at this point...

Why not?

Looking back at Kat's play, it is no different than her play in any other game. most of which she has flipped town in. Also, I have a policy in which I don't lynch replacements on their first day unless there are extrenuating circumstances.

As for who I think is scum:
I find it hard to believe andrew is this clueless about the game, even in a new setup, especially not knowing where the wiki is.
I still dislike mongooses reaction to the early game bandwagons. They look opportunistic.
A mongoose vote will do no good at this point so:

Vote: andrew94

[mothrax]

I was asking a question to get others opinions, and something that pertained to play in game, whereas Andrew has asked "newbie questions"

[mothrax]

To prove to Mafyu that my question at least pertained to stupidity unrelated to "newbness" andrew has continuously played like the newest of newbies

In this post and the one following it, he plays the newbie card. Here he asks us to link him to the wiki. And here he shows an unwillingness/uncapableness of reading the thread. He also asks "how can I contribute" in this post. That is equivalent to scum saying "tell me how to look like town." Thus my vote stays where it is.

[mothrax]

Also, I really like the way that looks (sorry, first time doing URL cases...)

[mothrax]

Mhere, semi la until tomorrow evening

[mothrax]

hmmmm way to be a dick. It was me anouncing reasoning for my abcense, and my plan to catch up at a certain time, which you can hold me accountable for.

[mothrax]

mmmk, sorry for my reply little on edge lately.

[mothrax]

@Mothrax:

Massclaim horse is dead, going to stop beating it.

mothrax wrote:
Why would he have drawn so much attention to himself if he was scum?
mothrax wrote:
:Scum wouldn't do this so I can't be scum" is not a valid defense.

Explain why you contradicted yourself mothrax.

Kat was applying that defense to herself. Self-metaing, wether it is personal or sitewide is not a valid defense. SA on the other hand, I brought it up. Yes, that did not mean he could not be scum, but it made it much less likely.

s

mongoose wrote:
mothrax wrote:
If that is not an option, I think I am down with a mongoose lynch. his reaction to the massclaim argument was scummy, on top of the fact that he is pushing a lurker lynch;
Why was my reaction scummy?

Moth, answer this

In one post, he votes for me because I was stupid, not because I was scummy. He is nice enough to point out that my logic was flawed but not how it was flawed which is what I was asking. The very next post he says I am likely town but leaves his vote on me.

[mothrax]

Also, since apparently my reasoning failed at explaining why looker is not todays lynch, my personal policy is not to lynch a replacee the day they replace in

unless extrenuating circumstances (lylo, multiple replacements, long day etc) apply

I am 21.1% certain I am right about this.

[mothrax]

And I am absolutely positive that I did not. That is the probability that looker is scum. (well actually there is another variable that I didn't take into account, but that gets into really complex statistics.

[mothrax]

Not today no.

[mothrax]

Though it really isn't that difficult to figure out.

[mothrax]

From what? You quoted one of my posts and said it made me look scummy...

[mothrax]

Just realized that my stat statement is reversed. It should read "there is a 21.1% chance that I am wrong.

[mothrax]

Mod: votecount plox

[mothrax]

@Mothrax:

Massclaim horse is dead, going to stop beating it.

mothrax wrote:
Why would he have drawn so much attention to himself if he was scum?
mothrax wrote:
:Scum wouldn't do this so I can't be scum" is not a valid defense.

Explain why you contradicted yourself mothrax.

Kat was applying that defense to herself. Self-metaing, wether it is personal or sitewide is not a valid defense. SA on the other hand, I brought it up. Yes, that did not mean he could not be scum, but it made it much less likely.

s
mothrax wrote:
If that is not an option, I think I am down with a mongoose lynch. his reaction to the massclaim argument was scummy, on top of the fact that he is pushing a lurker lynch;
Why was my reaction scummy?

Moth, answer this

In one post, he votes for me because I was stupid, not because I was scummy. He is nice enough to point out that my logic was flawed but not how it was flawed which is what I was asking. The very next post he says I am likely town but leaves his vote on me.

[mothrax]

Reread the bold andrew. I answered you question.

[mothrax]

@fitz I have other reasons for not voting hero that are not public knowledge and will not be ATM.

[mothrax]

Five and a half hours till deadline... Simone hammer plox

[mothrax]

Still, it would have saved us a mislynch and given us a confirmed townie...

[mothrax]

you were away during your entire wagon... I find that hard to believe since you spent most of your wagon spouting bullshit cases against me.

[mothrax]

Sorry, I am here. I need to reread but I would be fine with an ald lynch.

[mothrax]

I've seen scummines in his play. The RVS overreaction etc. There should have been an "I Think" in my last post because I need to reread to make sure I don't have my facts mixed up.
Your turn: who do you suspect and why?

[mothrax]

sorry, I had an unexpected vla, I meant to post in this game... guess I forgot...

[mothrax]

Anti-hero is opportunistic scum. He is still pushing an ald lynch even though there is no one in that slot to defend themselves.
He is also being obtuse....

Vote: Antihero

[mothrax]

Your current style=obtuse
being angry etc... it does nothing but make me think you are scum.