Open 249: Mayo Clinic **Game Over!**

[Scott Brosius]

Yeah Hacker's statement looks forced. Who was going to protect shotty or gandalf?

Why shouldn't doctors reveal their targets?

Order doesn't really matter for the claim, we are most likely getting 6 doctor claims and 2 vigs.

I didn't mean my question to make you seem like you weren't reading Phaen.

Last time we only had one vig alive D2 (me) and I orchestrated a protection scheme. This could work again. After claims, the vigs can agree who protects who (probably wise to have 2 claimed doctors protecting each vig) and assign the other 2 claimed doctors elsewhere. Scum will know who is/isn't protected but it also confirms scum if someone who was supposed to be protected dies.

[JesseSheffield]

I don't understand why doctors wouldn't reveal their targets, why would we not release any possible helpful information while we can? But...

Vote: Scott Brosius

I assume others will understand why?

Scum will know who is/isn't protected but it also confirms scum if someone who was supposed to be protected dies.

[Katsuki]

Revealing doc targets last night is useless? Unless you're talking about something else...

[HackerHuck]

Reasons for me first. I do not mind claiming, but I am not claiming just because you say "you first". Also, I'm in class so analysis is out of the question (posts will be colorful ).

Hacker's statement bothers me. Would you like to provide any reasoning as to why you are distraught over the lack of doc protection on questionable players at best?
If anything, those 3 dying N1 was a good thing, as it removes a ton of distractions for today's lynch. Considering that 2 of those were vig shots, the lack of doc protection was a GOOD thing.

Hacker: Your scum suspects please.

Typical process for claiming is that the scummiest person goes first. Although I've got you leaning town, you were the only other wagon of any size yesterday. That says to me that you should go first. Since it's semi-open, I'm really not too concerned about order.

Why do you think I'm distraught about the lack of doc protection? It's just statistically unlikely. With six docs and three kills, it's just surprising that the killers managed to avoid doc protection and each targeted someone different. I'm more interested in why you think it's a good thing that the vigs killed townies. All things equal, lynching a townie is better than NKing one. A lynch gives you some more data.

preview edit-
If you look, I said that they don't need to, not that they shouldn't. I don't think it matters if doctors claim who they protected, so I don't want it to be used to hold up the claiming process.

[JesseSheffield]

Revealing doc targets last night is useless? Unless you're talking about something else...

Because if we happen to mislynch today we'll be down to 4 town players and 3 scum players. If we set up a system of protection scum will know who to target, and if the vig's mess up we can end up 3 town players to 3 scum players. So basically he's setting us up to fail.

[Katsuki]

What does last night have to do with mislynch?

If you are talking about a system of protection...

Lets put it this way.
We have 2 vig'es left, and 3 real docs. Now, each vig will need their own protection... Oh wait, I spot a problem.

Scott can explain it later anyways. Multi-tasking leds to easy misunderstanding, so I will not say anything.

Regardless, everything can wait until my analysis. We can then decide after that if we wish to massclaim.

[JesseSheffield]

It has absolutely nothing to do with last night? I'm 100% talking about today and the following night. And I have nothing against a massclaim, I think that's a smart idea, I just fail to see the logic behind letting scum know the protection scheme when it can easily lead to a scum win.

[drmyshottyizsik]

you set up a X protects Y set u up and if Y dies then X is scum

[JesseSheffield]

And if we go into this night with 4 town and 3 scum and that scenario happens then scum wins.

FAIL.

[Phaen]

I've got no problem claiming once the town decides to do so.

I await your analysis then, Katsuki.

Scott, it's no problem, I just wanted to be clear since you asked me to clarify.
If I seemed annoyed it was because you listed for me the number of roles present even though I listed the same in my earlier post.

preview edit - wtf is shotty doing here

[Katsuki]

Ok, I might NOT be doing the analysis... mod didn't list non-voters I don't think.

I must say scott did a good job of doing nothing the entirety of D1 in terms of voting...

[HackerHuck]

Ok, I might NOT be doing the analysis... mod didn't list non-voters I don't think.

I must say scott did a good job of doing nothing the entirety of D1 in terms of voting...

Muthaa was the only non-voter, unless you were going to go back and look at every single vote count.

Who was suggesting that we coordinate doc protects for tonight?

The value in the massclaim is that it should give us a pool of suspects for today - six. If we mislynch, then it puts our fate in the hands of the vigs as to whether we make it another day. I'd rather give the vigs a 1 in 5 chance of hitting scum at night, especially since the mafia doc might make it necessary for both vigs to hit the same scum. It also forces the mafia to think harder about whether they should go after a vig who is likely to be protected or stick to one of the claimed doctors.

Most important, it gets the claims out in the open today. If we don't claim today and end up in LYLO tomorrow, the scum a chance to counterclaim vig to get the win.

I think there's some value in massclaim today, but very little downside if we do it.

[JesseSheffield]

Who was suggesting that we coordinate doc protects for tonight?

Last time we only had one vig alive D2 (me) and I orchestrated a protection scheme. This could work again. After claims, the vigs can agree who protects who (probably wise to have 2 claimed doctors protecting each vig) and assign the other 2 claimed doctors elsewhere. Scum will know who is/isn't protected but it also confirms scum if someone who was supposed to be protected dies.

How did you miss that?

The value in the massclaim is that it should give us a pool of suspects for today - six. If we mislynch, then it puts our fate in the hands of the vigs as to whether we make it another day. I'd rather give the vigs a 1 in 5 chance of hitting scum at night, especially since the mafia doc might make it necessary for both vigs to hit the same scum. It also forces the mafia to think harder about whether they should go after a vig who is likely to be protected or stick to one of the claimed doctors.

What do you suggest we do if we somehow get three vig claims?

[HackerHuck]

Who was suggesting that we coordinate doc protects for tonight?

Last time we only had one vig alive D2 (me) and I orchestrated a protection scheme. This could work again. After claims, the vigs can agree who protects who (probably wise to have 2 claimed doctors protecting each vig) and assign the other 2 claimed doctors elsewhere. Scum will know who is/isn't protected but it also confirms scum if someone who was supposed to be protected dies.

How did you miss that?

Opps, I read that post in preview, so I somehow missed it. I haven't thought it through fully, but on the surface that plan doesn't seem to work. We have two claimed doctors protecting five claimed doctors. That only works if we guess right on the two doctors being protected.

What do you suggest we do if we somehow get three vig claims?

I'll be happy because it puts the town in a good position. How would your protection racket work if there are three claimed vigs? Don't answer it in thread until after everyone claims.

[Phaen]

Lets not discuss what we're going to do with 3+ vig claims before the claims happen, wont this only help scum decide whether to claim vig or doc?

[JesseSheffield]

Lets not discuss what we're going to do with 3+ vig claims before the claims happen, wont this only help scum decide whether to claim vig or doc?

Pretty sure scum already know what they're going to do. I was interested in seeing what Hacker's solution to that problem would be.

[warriormode]

Hey guys just caught up.

So

I

guess my scu

m

list is completely gone now haha so im going to make

a

new one.

Hackers posts have bothered me

v

ery much today. Espec

i

ally statin

g

that

K

atsuki is the scum

i

est player just because it was the second

l

argest wagon yesterday.
One, we can't use "so and so is scummy because theres a big wagon" we need to provide reasoning and evidence (

l

ike most people do). Anoth

e

r thing wrong with this is that nopoint an

d

shotty (two of three people that were

s

cummy) I believe were all on t

h

at wagon at some p

o

int. In fact you weren'

t

on that wagon which makes me feel like you're coming up with a lame excuse as to switch your suspicions to ka

t

suki.

btw what about antihero? seems like at the beginning he was a little under the radar then he made a solid town post on Katsuki then went back under the radar. Don't like it. I'll get to that later.

the last person i have suspicion towards is scott. Hes played a really good game. This is definitely a gut feeling. Onl

y

thing is I havn't seen him post anything that gave me a town read but nothing scummy either just null-tell stuff.

So my initial list right now:

Scum:
Hacker
Antihero
Scott
(from most to least)

Mass claiming, I'm all for it. were kinda at lylo seeing as worst case scenario is mislynch and vigs and 2 more town die at night which is fairly possible.
Let me know when you want my claim.

[HackerHuck]

Hackers posts have bothered me

v

ery much today. Espec

i

ally statin

g

that

K

atsuki is the scum

i

est player just because it was the second

l

argest wagon yesterday.
One, we can't use "so and so is scummy because theres a big wagon" we need to provide reasoning and evidence (

l

ike most people do). Anoth

e

r thing wrong with this is that nopoint an

d

shotty (two of three people that were

s

cummy) I believe were all on t

h

at wagon at some p

o

int. In fact you weren'

t

on that wagon which makes me feel like you're coming up with a lame excuse as to switch your suspicions to ka

t

suki.

Typical process for claiming is that the scummiest person goes first.

Although I've got you leaning town

, you were the only other wagon of any size yesterday. That says to me that you should go first. Since it's semi-open, I'm really not too concerned about order.

I were going to set myself up to switch, why would I bother to mention that again today?
I'll admit that I didn't look closely at the names on the final wagon. I was mainly going off of the number (3) behind his name. That said, his was still the most recent wagon to compete with Muthaa, so I'm not sure why you're trying to argue that point. I'd rather get the claims started to so we can move on. Why don't you just pick who goes next?

[Katsuki]

Erg, I just got back... and am VERY tired...

It is too late for analysis. Just move on without my analysis I guess.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

V/LA till monday. agree with massclaim, not sure about detailing a protection plan.

[crywolf20084]

Vote Count: Day 2

5 to lynch someone; 4 to not lynch anyone.

Scott Brosius: (1)

JesseSheffield

Not Voting

Antihero
Scott Brosius
Warriormode
Katsuki
Smashbro_of_the_SSS
Phaen
HackerHuck


Once again, any mistakes, let me know. etc etc

[JesseSheffield]

So are you planning on claiming before you go on V/LA smashbro? And is that really all you have to say?

[Katsuki]

So, um, are we just gonna sit here until deadline again?...

[drmyshottyizsik]

-Deleted by Mod

[Katsuki]

DUDE
YOU'RE DEAD
STOP POSTING.