Mini 1056 - NFL Mafia (Game Over)

[Kdub]

LL, we're best friends, so maybe I'm just biased? IDK. I have a good handle on rajtown, though, and this is it.

Should have just said that in the first place

locke: just to let you know inhim usually buddies up with me. prolly because he knows im a lose cannon and think he can read me well. i then know that if he doesnt support me then hes prolly scum. weve just played so long together its habit and if it doesnt happen then one of us is scum. if it does happen then we both are town, or both scum, or one is scum and we are following our normal game play not to look suspicious.

So you are saying if inHim buddies you (as he seems to be doing), either you are both town, or both scum, or one of you is scum. That seems like a long-winded way of saying absolutely nothing.

oh and inhim buddies up with me. i dont really buddy up with him.
even though inhim is sold on me being town. i am always suspicious of inhim for most of the game.

...
This attitude toward inHim sounds pretty contrived. Would you care to post some games you have been in with him as examples of this behavior?

Yeah, I'll admit my vote was lazy, I'll do that sometimes where I have a serious reason for voting, but just don't actually give it. Definitely something I need to work on.

Not sure I buy this excuse. If you have a serious reason when you vote, but don't say what it is because you are too lazy, that's not really a problem with your game that can be "worked on". You either do it or you don't. Unless of course you didn't have a serious reason to begin with.

[rajrhcpfreak]

im having trouble finding them. with all of out old game archived i cant search the stuff.
we were in http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14071
and he ignored me the whole time. well, more or less didnt comment on my behavior and let me run crazy.
other games he strokes my ego my listening to my "raj's pick three(c)" and then running with it, many times he asks me for it. i make a mention of it in that game, he disagrees.
prolly the biggest thing that sticks out is playing IRL (that was about a month ago and he did this, until he caught my mom telling me who the cop was and that we should kill him at night) and in chat (back in the old days).

[Mariyta]

I like my vote because it doesn't seem like an "I'm really busy and signed up without thinking" replacement. It seems like a "Well, crap. I signed up, got scum, and I don't like playing scum. This game sucks." Others may not see it that way, but Raz had a couple votes on him and he obviously was interested when he signed up (or why would he sign up?). It seems like a pathetic excuse to me. And I don't agree with the excuse that it's a slow start. Most games start a bit slow. If you want immediate action, don't start games; replace into them halfway through, instead. I hope his replacement proves me wrong, but my vote stays for now.

thats a really interesting take, though you could say the same thing about being a VT, in a game with so many interesting roles. Or he may not want the pressure or being QB. So I don't think it really is a scum tell.

It's not necessarily a scumtell, but I felt it was enough this early in the game. Locke has been very active since replacing in, so as GhostWriter suggested, I'm letting it go.

also, mari, Horrordude voted for Coach travis.

Yes, hence the question. Please let him speak for himself, unless, of course, you're afraid your scum buddy will give himself away if he does.

That actually isn't unusual for me. See, I feel if I can find players I believe to be town, that will help narrow down the list of potential scum players, so I still think it's beneficial to the town. Obviously scum don't need to do such a thing, because they know who's scum and who's town, so they wouldn't need to worry about figuring out any alignment at all, where I like to figure out the alignment of everyone and point out whenever I have any type of read whatsoever. This has just been a game where so far I haven't seen a lot of things I'd call scummy.

The problem is, if you say that 3 people are town, and you cant find any scum, that doesnt help. Any scum can do the same, and why shouldn't they. Its not like the townies you are pointing out were going to be lynched any time soon anyways.

Coach Travis has been slightly more useful than some others in this game. I understand and respect the fact that you won't always have immediate scum reads on people. Sometimes it's easier to figure out who you think is definitely town and go from there. Right now, I don't see anyone as inherently scummy. I see some people who I think are possibly town, some who are slightly fishy, and some who appear to be utterly useless (also fishy), which is why I have not revoted. I'm deciding between slightly fishy and utterly useless.

[jimfinn]

LL, we're best friends, so maybe I'm just biased? IDK. I have a good handle on rajtown, though, and this is it.

Should have just said that in the first place

locke: just to let you know inhim usually buddies up with me. prolly because he knows im a lose cannon and think he can read me well. i then know that if he doesnt support me then hes prolly scum. weve just played so long together its habit and if it doesnt happen then one of us is scum. if it does happen then we both are town, or both scum, or one is scum and we are following our normal game play not to look suspicious.

So you are saying if inHim buddies you (as he seems to be doing), either you are both town, or both scum, or one of you is scum. That seems like a long-winded way of saying absolutely nothing.

I would say that this actually says a little more. It says, if we do not buddy, exactly one of us is scum, but if we do buddy, you can't tell anything about our alignment. So a little more than saying absolutely nothing.

[Antihero]

Seriously, people, this isn't MD; leave the theory there.

inhim's buddying =

red herring

; drop it

shotty fishing for a modkill = bad play; but people trying to finagle that into a scumtell ping on my scumdar more (jimfinn)

thats a really interesting take, though you could say the same thing about being a VT, in a game with so many interesting roles. Or he may not want the pressure or being QB. So I don't think it really is a scum tell.

rolefishing is bad

[mongoose]

that wasnt role fishing. It was pointing out a flaw in a philosophy. I didn't expect and didn't really want a role in return

[GhostWriter]

Then the proper phrase would have been "may not want the pressure of being a PR", not naming a specific role.

Also, I agree that the buddying theoretical discussion can be dropped. It's being used as a way of talking in circles while seeming to go forward.

[Mariyta]

I've decided to VOTE: jimfinn. Like mongoose, he's posting, but not really posting anything useful.

[GhostWriter]

So he's like Mongoose, but he's not Mongoose, making you fine with voting him?

I understand seeing him as scummy. As my previous post mentioned, I don't like the discussion he so willingly just threw himself into. However, that vote essentially says what my first line in this post says.

[Mariyta]

So he's like Mongoose, but he's not Mongoose, making you fine with voting him?

I understand seeing him as scummy. As my previous post mentioned, I don't like the discussion he so willingly just threw himself into. However, that vote essentially says what my first line in this post says.

They're both doing the same thing. Everyone is focusing on mongoose and ignoring jim. Jim needs a little pressure, too. Does it upset you that he is no longer flying under the radar?

[Antihero]

The OMGUS isn't getting us anywhere. Stop

That said, Jim needs to start contributing.

kdbub, what's your opinion of mongoose + jimfinn?

[GhostWriter]

So he's like Mongoose, but he's not Mongoose, making you fine with voting him?

I understand seeing him as scummy. As my previous post mentioned, I don't like the discussion he so willingly just threw himself into. However, that vote essentially says what my first line in this post says.

They're both doing the same thing. Everyone is focusing on mongoose and ignoring jim. Jim needs a little pressure, too. Does it upset you that he is no longer flying under the radar?

Oh, that's fun, let's point fingers at people and imply them as scum. I could do that, and say something along the lines of "does it upset you that Mongoose is getting such a huge bandwagon". But that's rather pointless, isn't it? I think so. Why would I dislike the fact that someone has been called out? Like I thought I implied before, I understand seeing him as scummy, and don't mind that you've pointed him out. But that doesn't change the way that post came across. And I stated how that post came across. Aggressive much?

[Mariyta]

So he's like Mongoose, but he's not Mongoose, making you fine with voting him?

I understand seeing him as scummy. As my previous post mentioned, I don't like the discussion he so willingly just threw himself into. However, that vote essentially says what my first line in this post says.

They're both doing the same thing. Everyone is focusing on mongoose and ignoring jim. Jim needs a little pressure, too. Does it upset you that he is no longer flying under the radar?

Oh, that's fun, let's point fingers at people and imply them as scum. I could do that, and say something along the lines of "does it upset you that Mongoose is getting such a huge bandwagon". But that's rather pointless, isn't it? I think so. Why would I dislike the fact that someone has been called out? Like I thought I implied before, I understand seeing him as scummy, and don't mind that you've pointed him out. But that doesn't change the way that post came across. And I stated how that post came across. Aggressive much?

First, that's exactly how your post came off. It sounded like you were accusing me of not voting mongoose when I voted jim. I explained why I voted jim instead. Second, I wasn't being aggressive, though apparently you read it that way. Maybe I should've stuck a smiley face at the end or something. Your reaction is quite aggressive, though.

I like Antihero's question to kdub and would like Coach Travis to answer the same, please.

[Antihero]

mari, I've had a fairly solid townread on you for the past few pages (I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt on your persuit of a few red herrings), but the OMGUS and subsequent backtracking doesn't look good.

[Mariyta]

mari, I've had a fairly solid townread on you for the past few pages (I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt on your persuit of a few red herrings), but the OMGUS and subsequent backtracking doesn't look good.

I didn't backtrack anywhere.

[GhostWriter]

But I wasn't being aggressive. Seems we aren't very good readers of posts that the other makes.

My problem with your original post wasn't that you pointed out Jim. It was that you point out Jim for reasons similar to Mongoose, who has a wagon and could surely use another vote, and then didn't supply that vote to the Mongoose wagon. I don't feel like Mongoose is taking the votes serious and might need to feel more pressure.

Then again, I don't actually know the vote count.

[Antihero]

First, that's exactly how your post came off. It sounded like you were accusing me of not voting mongoose when I voted jim. I explained why I voted jim instead.

Second, I wasn't being aggressive, though apparently you read it that way. Maybe I should've stuck a smiley face at the end or something.

Your reaction is quite aggressive, though.

I like Antihero's question to kdub and would like Coach Travis to answer the same, please.

What would a smiley have done? You obviously accused him of being jim's scumbuddy in that post.

Now going back and trying to say that you didn't = backtracking

[Mariyta]

But I wasn't being aggressive. Seems we aren't very good readers of posts that the other makes.

That's why I try to use smilies to indicate mood. Text is very easy to misread.

My problem with your original post wasn't that you pointed out Jim. It was that you point out Jim for reasons similar to Mongoose, who has a wagon and could surely use another vote, and then didn't supply that vote to the Mongoose wagon. I don't feel like Mongoose is taking the votes serious and might need to feel more pressure.

Then again, I don't actually know the vote count.

Fair enough. I'm not sure of the vote count either, and I felt my vote would be more useful in pressuring someone else (in addition to mongoose, not instead of him).

What would a smiley have done? You obviously accused him of being jim's scumbuddy in that post.

Now going back and trying to say that you didn't = backtracking

It was a joke accusation, because I felt he was accusing me of the same with mongoose. The smiley would've made it lighthearted, as it was meant to be.

Anyway, back to scum hunting. Waiting on responses from kdub and Coach, as well as useful input from mongoose and jim.

[Kdub]

kdbub, what's your opinion of mongoose + jimfinn?

Mongoose's posts have seemed reasonable enough to me. I don't think the original post everyone got on him about was really much of anything, and at least two of the votes on him (inHim and CT) look particularly weak. If I had to guess, I'd say town at this point.

Jim has not posted enough for me to lean either way on him. I've never played with him before so I don't know how typical his activity level is. Obviously more content from him would be nice, but I can't say much more about him yet.

[jimfinn]

To those who have not played with me before: I don't post all that much in the early stages of games in general, unless I see something that gives me a strong read. I tend to wait until my reads are stronger, so that I don't backtrack or lead others the wrong direction. Especially when I have a PR with some form of investigation, I am relatively inactive on D1 in order to allow my power to help me develop at least one of my reads.

[GhostWriter]

God dammit...

[Antihero]

Take it with a grain of salt, GW.

[GhostWriter]

I think you misinterpreted that "God dammit".

[jimfinn]

In my F2F games (my first mafia experience) and my first online game, I got absolutely mauled for backtracking, so I've played a little more cautiously since.

[GhostWriter]

Dammit, I'm upset at the breadcrumbing.